People everywhere are blowing me away with ignorance and fear.

[galileoreloaded]

My response from another thread...with additions.

Sounds to me like a lot of freaked out urbanites around that just realized that they don't know shit about shit. Shit that matters anyway. Don't know where your food comes from, or how to produce it. Have no clue how to change a tire, weld a broken pipe, or even drive a vehicle with a clutch. That has been the majority of the reaction I have seen here and other places lately now that I think of it. You all are realizing that while knowing how to debug lines of code or balancing an A/R report might be valuable today, the light bulb just went off that if the money or technology goes away tomorrow, you are another screwed third world peasant living in a hut, scrounging your daily subsistence from a garbage dump.

People are scared shitless that the belief systems and living standards that have worked so well for them the last 20 or 60 years is crumbling before their eyes, and they know NOTHING about anything other than the trappings of a ultra-specialized society, where the prevailing sense of social justice involves granite counter tops for everybody.

There is nothing progressive about continuing to demand an unsustainable standard of living simply because you bought a line of bullshit from people that make their living selling bullshit, and as pressing evidence to a contrary reality emerges, it scares you and it should.

Read a book about something other than PoliSci or People magazine once in a while, and learn a practical skill or two. You'll feel better and not prone to knee-jerk reactions, while at the same time reinforce against the sinking feeling in your stomach.

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."-Heinlein

Not directed at individuals, or DU specifically, more the entire country.

Look, things suck, and if you haven't figure it out yet, are going to get a lot worse. From other threads I have responded to and posted here, I am amazed at the "conservative" (yes, I said it) thought processes that are espoused by supposed liberals or progressives. Continued expectation, and the actions to preserve such expectations, of an obvious "bubble" of living standards are nearly identical sentiments to the RW voracity for retaining their standard of living, albeit generally a much higher living standard.

Get it?? To someone in Guatemala, we are ALL Republicans, with different levels of severity.

What is required is to understand that OUR STANDARD OF LIVING WILL FALL BY 50%. Period. It is wealth re-balancing on a global scale, and has nothing to do with capitalism or communism or socialism or any other popular buzzword for an economic model.

Wanna secret?? Capitalism, Communism, whatever, are all destined to inevitable failure, as they are all managed markets, in one form or the other. The world, and you, have never seen a truly free market in a while, as they haven't existed for several hundred years or so.

Managed markets live and die by the quality of the systems, decisions and decision makers governing those markets. A truly free market, seen last in the 1400's, exhibits a brutal history of nature running to fill a commodity based vacuum, where people, jobs and economies were displaced often within half a generation, based on the rapidly changing needs of period nations with numerous trade routes crossing through them.

A true free market exists in perpetuity, but often the participants do not. I can give a zillion examples of this, but I recommend the book "Connections" by Burk. It was made into a mini-series in the late 70's I think, and has in depth analysis of the phenomena.

Don't get me wrong, a true free market is nasty and cutthroat and that is why better options have been tried with relative success.

My point is this, I sense a feeling of incredulity that "this" is happening to "us". As a nation, we have grown up in a cocoon of relative wealth and safety, and the reality is that no amount of any human action stems the tide of history, see the Roman Empire.

So let me reiterate my overarching point. In that to deny the "natural" fundamentals of our current position by longing for a return to "the good old days", only continues to discombobulate you into thinking that there is a self directed solution to natural progression. And furthermore, a basic retrenchment to allowing and building the skills necessary to hone your human survival instinct,which is not necessarily violent, is not a failure of Progressive or Democratic or American principles, but a honest reaction to economic, basic, and self preservation.

Explore your inner human animal, before its too late.

[Taverner]

1. Agreed with most, but where is your source for the living standard dropping by 50%?

[SmokingJacket]

2. Most people will learn VERY quickly, if they have to.

We're ignorant and lazy because we don't have to be otherwise. But we learn fast, if conditions require it.

[Speck Tater]

3. My grandson and I showing how to make your own rope...

http://howto.fiziwig.com/local/rope_spin/spinner_1.php

And how to build a quick temporary cooking stove if the power goes out.: http://howto.fiziwig.com/local/pyrm/pyrstove.php

[Naturalist]

4. It's not just ignorance. It's no guts.

These guys act like the Sopranos

The Mark: American People
The Threat: If you don't pay us your economy will fail, you will loose your homes, jobs and have no food.
The Payoff: 700 billion
The Terms: You have 7 days to get us the money.



IF YOU LET THEM HAVE THE MONEY WE WILL HAVE NONE WHEN WE NEED IT.

The request for 700 Billion Dollars comes from private institutions that have duped the American Public and Foreign Investors. The scam has been discovered, now they want your money to help them bail themselves out while leaving you nothing to help yourself in the coming hard times ahead. The have lied about the value and rating on the paper they have sold and are in hot water with foreign investors. They are really scared that no one will lend them any more money if they are unable to pay their bills. Sound familiar? If there was a credit rating for these jokers it would be at the bottom. If your credit rating was at the bottom would you expect someone to loan you any money? They do. They expect you to loan them money. This isn't about home loans gone bad. This is about fictitious numbers on paper that is worthless that they need to cover. This is about derivatives that are worthless. We need to tell these people no way and use Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to deal out loans for businesses and home loans so this country can keep going. We need to start immediately doing accounting and reviewing on these companies and seize them and their assets if they committed fraud. Put people in jail. Anyone that has bought their lies and looses money will have to take their punches. There are many smaller banks that are poised to move up the ranks that can take place of these crooks. Do you really want to help these crooks out so they can do it again?

[marions ghost]

5. I'm looking foward to change too, so

I DO agree with your anti-materialism stance.

But I DON'T agree with your Guilty Guilty Guilty pointing finger.

Maybe explore your inner human animal yourself a little longer?:eyes:

[OldEurope]

6. You forgot to mention

when you cited Heinlein:
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
that this was a "man" that had been living for hundreds of years, a science fiction character (Lazarus Long). No normal human beeing is able to do all those things. Humans can work together, so every part of the group does what he can do best. So why should I learn all those things, when there are others who can do better?

[galileoreloaded]

8. it was meant as illustrative hyperbole, but I respect your opinion....n/t

[OldEurope]

9. In fact

the only things in that list that I really can NOT do are fighting efficiently, and conning a ship. And I never butchered a hog, only chicken. Does that count?

But then, I´m European, and I´m 50.

[codjh9]

7. Read 'World Made By Hand' if you haven't already - by James Howard Kunstler

It's set in a small town in upstate NY, but is a microcosm of a world post-oil, infrastructure/society has crumbled, food has to be grown locally with old methods, etc. Fits right in with what you're talking about.