So what if the bailout fails and there is a stock market crash, as predicted?

[originalpckelly]

:shrug:

[Eric J in MN]

1. The good stocks will rise, again. NT

NT

[jpgray]

3. No impact on credit? No pressure on banks, money market funds and bond holders?

Based on what?

[Eric J in MN]

19. The tightness of credit is cyclical. During recessions, credit is tighter.

When the economy recovers, credit is looser.

[kenny blankenship]

2. Stock market is not the concern at all

NO CREDIT in your neighborhood, for businesses, for homes, for autos --that's the concern. Why did Democratic Congresspeople line up to support a "wall st. bailout"? Did they dream of the day they'd get to Washington and be able to throw money at wall st. bankers? No way - this is repugnant to them. But they're doing it anyway because they know what available credit means to the people in their districts, and they have an idea of what it would mean if there were no credit available for a long long time to people in their districts. But as to the stock mkt. yeah hard crash there will destroy many people's retirements. Ordinary peoples' retirements.

[gopbuster]

6. Ohh yes it is...market capitalization of co's directly relates to their borrowing abilities n/t

[kenny blankenship]

12. People want to know why Democratic Reps and Senators are going along w/ it

Credit mkt DWARFS the equities mkts. If it were just the stock market at risk we wouldn't even be talking about it.

I think the main reason the Democrats have been so quick to get on board is that it has been explained to them that having the credit mkt locked in sea ice, the way it's going, will mean lending stops in their districts. If you take for example, Atlanta, where I live, credit will dry up for Democratic intown zipcodes before it stops in Republican suburban zipcodes. People with the means to get the very best terms on loans now-- great income, very stable work history, blemish free credit--will be the ONLY people to get loans in a deflationary depression. And those people generally speaking tend to live in the band of exurbs north of Atlanta, and generally speaking they vote Republican. Everyone else will be frozen out completely. That is why you see no lag between House Democrats and Senate Republicans coming together behind a plan, some plan, to "do something". It's not that it won't affect Republicans adversely, of course it will; but unlike a lot of other economic "high finance" matters, Democratic lawmakers see their constituents will be affected just as quickly, if not even more quickly, than Republicans in adjoining districts.

What happens to the stock mkt isn't motivating Democratic rank and file members like the immediate awareness of what NO CREDIT means to their districts.

[lib2DaBone]

7. How can you get credit if you don't have a job?

There are no Jobs... Unemployment is above 12%.. but Bush will not admit it. BTW... you sent 5 million American jobs to China in the last 8 years. Why don't you go ask China for a loan... oh?.. you are..? Nevermind.........

[willing dwarf]

4. The engine of commerce and trade will grind to a sudden halt

The train wreck would be international in scope.

The US treasury would need to print money to cover debts, the dollar would become like the Peso in the 90's. Buy anything without cash would be impossible for at least a little while. In that time, all hell may break loose.

I think they've got to come up with a bailout, but they've got to punish the wall street swindlers make them pay, take away all their millions to pay for this.

[El Pinko]

5. The stock market has risen for years and years as most Americans' incomes have fallen...

Why do people who are not heavily invested equate the stock market with their personal fortunes?

[kestrel91316]

8. We get out of bed in the morning, get dressed, have a bite to eat, and put one

foot in front of the other. The world fell apart in 1929, and people mostly lived to tell about it. The Great Depression was a time of trouble but not the end of the world.

People with goods or services to offer will find willing buyers, even if they have to barter.

[jwirr]

14. More recently we watched as the USSR fell apart and began rebuilding

itself. There will be hard times. Many of us are stocking up on foods and other vital items even now. But our grandparents made it through the Great Depression and we will also - especially if we have a Democratic WH and congress. They will not set back on their hands the way *ss and co. do.

[willing dwarf]

15. If we survive the crash it might do us a lot of good

This might be the thing which ends the passivity of the last 30 years. We'll need to pull ourselves up by our boot straps, get working at something -- green energy alternatives or something else really brilliant -- and begin to rebuild the engine of commerce.

[finecraft]

16. My Grandmother taught me many things growing up

She taught me how to can fruits and vegetables, sew my own clothes, make my own soap, how to raise and butcher chickens and hogs, and most of all, how to live within my means....whatever they may be. She was born in 1901 in Romania, and her family grew and sold vegetables. My Grandfather sold coal in Germany from the back of a horse-drawn cart. They came to this country dirt poor, made a life here, and lived through the depression. When they retired in the early 70's, they each got a pension of $68.00 per month. I'll never forget that. You're right Kestrel...you get up every day and make the most of what the world throws at you. You adapt,live every day to its fullest, and be thankful for anything you do have. Although, at my age, the possibility of having to raise and butcher my own hogs is not something I'm looking forward to! :)

[kestrel91316]

23. My mom taught me how to sew, my dad taught me how to garden and hunt and fish.

My grandmother raised 6 sons on a remote NV ranch in the Depression, and they were Mormons of a sort so home canning was her big thing, so I knew people could do it and eventually taught myself. I also taught myself how to make soap and a few other things. like crocheting (grandma did that, too).

I wouldn't raise more than one pig (just as a garbage disposal and fertilizer factory) - I would have chickens and meat rabbits if I had the land.

[kestrel91316]

24. My mom taught me how to sew, my dad taught me how to garden and hunt and fish.

My grandmother raised 6 sons on a remote NV ranch in the Depression, and they were Mormons of a sort so home canning was her big thing, so I knew people could do it and eventually taught myself. I also taught myself how to make soap and a few other things. like crocheting (grandma did that, too).

I wouldn't raise more than one pig (just as a garbage disposal and fertilizer factory) - I would have chickens and meat rabbits if I had the land.

[gopbuster]

9. just need few necessities....

tentwarmblanketslanterngungardenwellcolemanstovenonperishables

[lxlxlxl]

10. good news...bankers jump out of windows...bad news retirement plans dissappear

Alot of public employee pension funds are wrapped up in the market (tricky subject) and your 401k or your parents 401k is in that bag of shit market also...if the market tanks all of these boomers that need to retire will not be able to.

the next thing is realizing what an "economic slowdown" really means...it means less big commerical development like malls, new restaraunts, new shiny crappy housing developments in the bigger cities becuase these projects are paid with debt not cash (good thing).

it means less mergers between huge companes (a good thing).

it could eventually start effecting the ability for cities relying on municpal bond revenue to complete projects (public health, water, schools -- bad news)

It will also mean that business owners will choose to walk away from their companies because they no longer turn the profit they are accustomed to, unfortunately that puts a ton of people into unemployment where they will have no where to work.

who will people blame? thats the Trilliion Dollar Question...if they realize that this is the deregulator and randians fault, i think progressives could finally turn the country around, and fuck it, the rest of the world also.

if however the blame goes the other direction -- towards dems...you can get more war, no help for the people that will be out of a job, and if the food/agriculture supply chain gets screwed up, really hungry people on soup lines...

it's a 50/50 shot which way it could go.

[avaistheone1]

20. I think before we are encouraged to have visions of economic mushrooms clouds and yellow cake.

Congress should really take its time and have public hearings with experts. The lack of of oversight both by Congress and SEC helped created this so called crisis. The crisis did not happen overnight and I doubt Congress can do a good job with a solution overnight.

I have seen much better solutions posted on this board citing various experts than the plan Congress is attempting to shove down our throats.

[Lint Head]

11. I have never understood why the world must live on credit.

It is an economic mindset that automatically sets itself up to eventually fail. I realize businesses and farmers have to borrow to make payroll until the profits come at the end of the month or quarter. But the way it is administered is absolutely insane. If the profits don't come in your screwed. Cash and metals is the way to go. Otherwise it is a piece of worthless paper that only has value because some economic god has blessed it as so. :dem:

[originalpckelly]

17. I actually agree with you completely. In fact I have a theory...

that credit actually keeps our economy from being a market by distorting prices. Prices are really just pieces of information that tell producers to make more or less of something, and with credit it's possible that too much of something can be made.

Although, I think we need to just go back to tying the dollar to some physical quantity, the main reason being that it's very hard to inflate a currency when tied to a certain amount of something, like gold for example.

[Possumpoint]

13. The House Of Cards Falls

The insolvent corporations are swept aside. The worthless assets are written off. Many on wall street and in the insolvent corporations become unemployed. For a while credit may be hard to come by yet there are a number of banks still extending credit. Stirling National Bank never invested in the toxic paper and is solvent enough to be seeking loan customers. Those newly unemployed Wall Street fat cats will either do well if they have saved their large salaries and bonuses or won't if they haven't.

We the average American will probably have to revert to a cash economy. Forget credit cards, you want something, save your money and then buy it. Barter will also break out. Some will be unemployed through no fault of their own. Some will lose everything because they are over extended. With diminished spending many major corporations will have to either cut back or go out of business.

Tax revenues will fall. Governments will have to shrink. Programs, good and bad, will have to be curtailed for a period of time. They will have to re-establish the regulations and safeguards that worked so well for so many years.

All in all there may be a great deal of discomfort but the stress will make us better people. Instant gratification and living on debt will be a thing of the past. Those who do have cash will have great future investment opportunities. Those who have will need to help those who don't. Government will be too strapped to do much.

I'm too young to have experienced the great depression but listened to my parents stories for hours at a time. My greatest concern is food. In 1929 most of the US population lived on family farms. They could grow their own food. That is isn't how our demographics work out now. There is only two weeks food in the distribution chain at any given time.

If desparate people resort to civil disruption they will have to be dealt with harshly.

[whistle]

18. That is inevitable

[FarCenter]

21. Credit card limits would be reset to whatever your balance is

and no more charging would be allowed.

ATM cards might or might not work.

[defendandprotect]

22. Capitalism is simply failing again ... of its own corruption --

The stock market has fallen LOW many times ..

We need new companies to rise -- let's subsidize electric cars --

and nationalize oil industry -- for a start --

This $700 billion will be $1.4 TRILLION with interest --

and we're borrowing the money from the Saudi's and who else to

bail out our elites again .. ??

Rethink this --