A young girl and her father lost their lives last night.

[pdxmom]

and 3 others are in the hospital, in intensive care, including the drunk driver who caused the accident. It was supposed to be a fun weekend. Oregon dunes camping, with some fun in their sand rail(dune buggy). The other driver hit them head on, rolling over top of them, killing the father and daughter immediately and sending the two others to ICU.

Now my children have a funeral to attend and my daughter's friend, who she was planning to move in with to start her life on her own, may be facing a life in a wheelchair.

This is the second time in a year my children have had to see a friend buried. And both because of alcohol and driving.

I'm not lecturing. I'm just reminding. Hug your kids and remind them to be safe. Take away keys or report those who are putting others at risk.

It's very sad around our house today. There will not be a smiling face at our Sunday dinner this week. But we will go see her in the hospital and hope we can offer some solace and love.

[avaistheone1]

1. Are there strict no drunk driving laws in your state?

I live in California. Here the law is very strict.

[pdxmom]

2. Out on the dunes, it's not as tough. The dunes and the campground

are pretty close together, and it's difficult to police. But they just tightened the rules up last year, due to the number of accidents. It didn't help in this case.

[Stellabella]

3. The laws can be strict, but we can't police everybody.

I heard an estimate that the police stop and ticket or jail only 1 in 5000 drunk drivers. There aren't enough cops on the road to do better than that.

[Stellabella]

4. The laws can be strict, but we can't police everybody.

I heard an estimate that the police stop and ticket or jail only 1 in 5000 drunk drivers. There aren't enough cops on the road to do better than that.

[Duke Newcombe]

5. As we've seen time and time again...stiff laws cannot eliminate human frailty...

and outright stupidity. Unfortunately.

duke

[parasim]

9. Not sure what you mean by "strict no drunk driving laws"...

I mean, as long as people are allowed to drive their car to a bar, there will be drunk drivers. Do your strict laws prevent people from getting in their cars drunk? or does it just mean there heavier fines/punishment for those that drive drunk? If it's the latter, then drunks will be driving.

[depakid]

18. Oregon has harsher DUI penalties than California

For example, a 3rd offense is a felony that goes along with a LIFETIME drivers' license revocation.

Unfortunately, harsher and harsher laws and more jail (or prison) time is not the answer- more like a reaction. Creating awareness and reinforcing cultural proscriptions- along with various alternatives that keep people from driving in the 1st place are far better at preventing tragedies than expecting drunk people to consider the consequences before the getting behind the wheel.

[Speck Tater]

6. There are hundreds of people killed by drunks for every one killed by terrorists.

Yet we waste money chasing terrorists who are nowhere near as dangerous as drunks.

[alittlelark]

7. I have had phsical fights regarding keys

I fully understand where you are coming from.:evilfrown:

[pdxmom]

10. Yes, anger. And no one to really direct it towards. If someone had

been watching out for that driver the way I watch out for others, maybe this tragedy could have been averted. It's not possible to stop them all, but knowing that doesn't make the loss any less.

[Lifelong Protester]

8. I am sorry for your loss

I lost my Mom to a drunk driver 18 years ago, and still I feel it. I second your comments on not letting friends and acquaintances drive while under the influence. The pain of that bad decision can last a lifetime.

[pdxmom]

12. Thank you. Years ago, before the drinking age was raised and the

drunk driving laws were tightened up, I lost 4 friends in 2 years. I have been a kind of fanatic about it ever since. I have nothing against drinking. I'll have a drink now and then myself. But the police can't catch them all, and I just believe that we need to do what we can to try to stop the tragedy before it might happen, if we can.

[BrklynLiberal]

13. and there are stilll lpeople out there who are in favor of lowering the legal drinking age to 18.

It is difficult enough to keep kids safe as it is...but to legalize their ability to go into a bar and get drunk...I just do not agree with it.

[pdxmom]

14. I agree. In this particular case, though, the drunk driver was 47. I doubt

this was his first incident, though I don't know that. Mandatory treatment and some serious punishments need to be enforced for those caught drinking and driving. It's not usually "this is the first time I've ever done this, Officer", and I'm tired of attending funerals of vibrant, beautiful people who I care about because of the stupid, selfish actions of others.

I feel like that sounds harsh, but I'm so angry right now.

[BrklynLiberal]

16. I would be surprised if you were not angry. It is a reaction that anyone can understand.

[TahitiNut]

11. As a 'designated driver' (available to anyone who knows me, at any time) for 20 years ...

... I agree. For God's sake ... there are people LIKE ME that everyone knows who'd much rather get out of a warm bed and go drive someone home 1,000 times than have even ONE such accident!!

[pdxmom]

15. I feel the same way, and it's what I have always told my own family. Let

me come and get you. I swear I won't bitch or gripe. I just want you and others to be safe.

[merwin]

17. Mandatory loss of license for life and a mandatory jail term for those convicted by

breathalizer. That would go a long way to help the problem.

[depakid]

33. That's perfect example of the simplistic thinking

that's caused America so many problems in so many ways.

You really think that some significant percentage of that many people wouldn't just drive without a license? People still have to find a way to make a living. So, what happens next- keep packing the prisons exponentially?

:crazy:

Believe me, even if it's a first offense, the driver here is doing prison time and when they get out, will have their license revoked for a long time. Not to mention they'll likely have a punative damages judgment and/or restitution hanging over their heads that won't be dischargeable in bankruptcy.

[merwin]

34. And the majority of them will re-offend.

Drinking is an awful disease. I know firsthand, as my brother is a successful ER doctor and is struggling with alcoholism. He's finally getting the help he needs, but it took him a wrecked car, a couple DUI's, and thousands of dollars in legal fees.

Let me try again... mandatory revocation of license for several years and mandatory inpatient treatment.

They tried outpatient a couple times with my brother, which didn't help at all. The only thing that worked (so far) was a 3 month inpatient treatment program.

Either way, if someone has a drinking problem, their license should be taken away for several years... it's a problem that doesn't resolve itself overnight, and does take several years.

Of course, none of this can happen without universal free health care.

It's not simplistic at all.

[depakid]

35. Sounds more like you're externalizing a personal situation to public policymaking

In fact, both California and Oregon require mandatory alcohol treatment programs and license suspension on a 1st offense. In addition both states take into account BAC and add enhancements depending on the level.

What you're assuming is that everyone who drinks or blows a .08 automatically requires long term inpatient treatment!

That's in essense a zero tolerance rule- resulting in the same absurdities that are seen in American schools.

btw: you're also incorrect about recidivism rates.

[merwin]

38. If you are driving over the BAC limit, you are endangering people's lives.

There should be zero tolerance for this. I'm not against drinking at all, just against driving while drunk. If you're being safe about it, fine... drink as much as you want, but if you get behind the wheel of a car you are holding a loaded gun and pointing it at others.

[orleans]

36. what about mandatory rehab?

something severe, that people don't want to do (giving up a license or jail time would be terribly impractical) but i think a lot of these duis could use some rehab time.

and another upside of getting rehab would require more hospitals/medical centers to OFFER it--it's hard to find in some places. i can't imagine how difficult it must be for a person who needs it and wants it and they can't find a place that is affordable or that their insurance would take, or one that has a bed/room available.

[depakid]

37. Maybe that's not a bad idea- especially for high BAC cases

along with license suspension. Trouble would be getting funding for the program(s) and setting up some sort of guidelines for judges to exercise discretion depending on individual cases.

A lot of defendants won't be able to pony up the bill for a month long inpatient program- and so if you only allow that as an option for the wealthy, that doesn't do much for larger goals like equal justice under the law.

[orleans]

44. the way insurance is going for people lately, i imagine A LOT of

people couldn't afford the rehab--so...i kinda feel that if we can afford to pay for pot smokers to do jail time we should be able to afford rehab for people who are drinking and driving (with, of course, as you said, "some sort of guidelines for judges to exercise discretion depending on individual cases")

i've known several people who could have used such help--six that i can think of offhand (including the repeat offender who did a hit and run on my cousin--and killed her. the judge, btw, didn't even give the guy jail time because "he had a family to support." oh. okay. that was a long time ago--but still...)

[leftofthedial]

19. what a horrible tragedy. Myheart goes out to the victims and to your family.

take keys away from drunks

and old people

and tired people

and young reckless people (especially males under the age of 35)

and people who are just lousy drivers.

[pdxmom]

20. There is a neighbor a few doors down who routinely backs out of his

driveway into a ditch across the street. This has been going on for several years and someone always has to help him pull the car out. I have yet to figure out why this guy is driving. If he can't back out of his driveway and figure out there is always a ditch back there, I can't imagine what he thinks when the light turns red.

[leftofthedial]

21. I have several reckless young male neighbors and a few not so young

SUV drivers who are a menace every time they execute one of their rabbit starts without looking or signalling or when they pull out of a blind drive into traffic.

It is only a matter of time before they run over one of the neighborhood kids.

[bertman]

22. I am sorry for your and your family's loss. Thank you for the post.

[pdxmom]

26. Thank you. It's a personal incident that thousands of other people

have to face each year, but I didn't want it to go unnoticed. Maybe one person will read what I wrote and think twice the next time they are out. That is all I can hope for.

[sandnsea]

23. I am so sorry

Those dunes are dangerous. We hear an ambulance or rescue squad headed out almost every day during the summer. Well, I guess driving down the street can be dangerous, you just never know. And there's really nothing to be learned except to be good to each other, and to not drink and drive.

[pdxmom]

24. Sandnsea...that's what was so weird. It happened down in the flats, so

there really shouldn't have been any reason for the accident to happen. It was head on. How the hell does that even happen?

And you're right. There isn't really anything to be learned...it's things we know, and the rest is just senseless. I just thought that a reminder to folks couldn't hurt.

Thank you.

[sandnsea]

27. And bad enough to be fatal, just crazy

I was trying to think of something comforting for your kids, and one of life's saddest lessons is that sometimes there just is no lesson. Bad things happen. I guess it's like Joe Biden says, everybody gets knocked down, it's how fast you get back up. I just feel so bad for your kids, and the family of course, but these tragedies touch so many lives. Good luck to you.

[GreenPartyVoter]

25. I am so very sorry

[AZBlue]

28. I'm so sorry!

This is an important reminder - one I wish you hadn't had to make from such a personal point of view! :hug:

[Tulum_Moon]

29. SO SORRY!

This happens all the time where we live. At the Dunes. Assholes drink and go out and go for it.

[pdxmom]

31. If they would just stick to taking out themselves, instead of aiming for

those who are just following the rules and engaging in a sport they enjoyed, I wouldn't be so worked up. The lose of any person is sad, but especially so when it is at the hands of another, doing something this blatantly stupid.

[AZBlue]

32. Exactly.

It's not fair that anyone else has to pay the price for their stupidity and selfishness.

[stillcool]

30. I come from a long line of alcoholics...

I've never been charged with drunk driving but everyone else in my family has. I didn't get my license till I was well into my 20's. I had a major car wreck, thank God I hit a pole and was alone. Afterwards I couldn't drive sober..it was too frightening. We are all creatures of our environment. Where I grew up I knew of no one that didn't drive drunk. We had a volunteer fire department that was notorious for being lit up. I moved away years ago, and got sober shortly after. I doubt things have changed very much. I imagine if I went back I would see the same people on the same bar stools. I don't know what the answer is. I've lost friends as well, but it seems now like it was almost normal.

[lynettebro440]

39. Ban alcohol and legalize weed

people that smoke weed go about 4 miles an hour, they are never aggressive or want to go fast, they don't get in fights and are willing to be driven home if had too much....get rid of the alcohol, that's what makes people so stupid....LOL

[depakid]

40. The Sunday Oregonian has an article about the tragedy

Two people died and three were critically injured in a collision late Friday of two sand rails at Sand Lake, about seven miles north of Pacific City.

The accident occurred about 9:30 p.m. in an area known as "the flats" when two sand rails -- dune buggy-type vehicles designed for the dunes -- crashed head on, said Tillamook County Sheriff Todd Anderson.

One vehicle with a single occupant struck the other, which had four people in it, then went over the top of the sand rail.

Dead on impact were the driver of the second vehicle, identified as David Leach, 56, of Hillsboro, and a passenger riding in the back of the second vehicle, identified as Chiara Acker, 19, of Aloha. Two other passengers, one riding in the front, identified as Phillip Snider, 25, of Aloha, and an unidentified female in the back, were seriously injured.

The driver of the first vehicle, identified as David Reiman, 47, of Vancouver, suffered critical injuries, including a spinal fracture.

All three of the injured were taken by Life Flight to Portland hospitals.

"This is a terrible tragedy," Anderson said. "This was in an area where both sand rails should have been visible."

Alcohol was a factor, Anderson said. County commissioners had recently banned alcohol on the sand and closed the area to the vehicles from midnight to 6 a.m. after several other alcohol-related accidents.

A sand rail typically consists of a frame, engine and seat with no protective hood.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/09/two_killed_three_seriously_inj.html
----------

Alcohol and these sorts of activities- and this includes boating DON'T MIX.

EVER.

[JanMichael]

41. I am so sorry for you loss. There is an article on the front page of

"Oregon Live"-- the comment section is interesting in that relatives to the "drunk driver" have posted.

What a tragedy.

[earth mom]

42. I'm so sorry for your loss.

I lost my mom to a drunk driving accident 26 years ago and back then the drunk driver got off with just a fine and probation due to some screw ups in the case.

I'd love to see zero tolerance for drinking and driving but when I posted that before here on DU it didn't go over well with some people.

I guess I'm ruining their "fun". :(

[sasori]

43. I'm sorry,really.

Not many people realize that car accidents can actually kill you. :dunce: :dunce: :dunce: Too many people just think "I can drive. I'm not that drunk." it pisses me off how ignorant they are.