I WANT UTOPIA. Fuck all this back and forth. Fuck the system. anarchists, what do you suggest?

[Skip Intro]

I say recreate the system.

Everyone should be equal in the eyes of government.

Wealth, stature, prominence based upon such frail stilts should not be our measure.

Government is but, or should be but, the expression of the will of the people put into action.

The people do not want fraudulent, endless war.

The people do not want bailouts for the rich.

The people do not want a health care system that denies the most needy.

We don't need the latest bomb. We don't need the trickle down theory.

There should be no us and them.

There should be no them.

There should be only us.

In the end, it is only us.

To hell with the system that grants treasury-busting acts that rape the rest of us in order to save the few.

To hell with a system that demands a poor class.

Wipe the slate clean.

Begin again with the knowledge that the people have the supreme, and ultimate power.

To hell with the mind games.

Start again.

Where all of us, all of us, the people, determine where our money goes.

Fuck their platitudes.

We have to take it back.

Rambling.....

[joshcryer]

1. You commie, you.

You do realize that you are pretty much reaching so far that it's crazy, right? Hardly any of those things are possible under a new elected regime, it has to be taken, not voted for and agreed upon.

[joshcryer]

3. My comment was too terse, so here's a longer explaination of my beliefs.

I should expound. The problem with the current system is that it is predicated upon a certain mindset, that everything can and will work out in the end. Our current elections are only evidence of this, not suggestive of a mass consciousness that seeks to truly be revolutionary.

Such a mass consciousness is completely incapable of existing in the current environment, and while I don't think it is absolutely necessary to overcome this mindset to achieve revolution, there needs to be a cascade effect that creates pressures for such a change. Mind you I don't speak of change as some sort of thing that magically comes about via some religious-esque cause and effect, but rather small changes that on the whole, added together, cannot be stopped.

You look at piracy and most people, even the admins of this forum, mods and the like, would frown on such behavior, but it's happening on such a pervasive basis that no anarchist would even consider remotely wrong or evil. We're talking vast amounts of bandwidth devoted almost entirely toward those ends. There's a small cascade effect, that cannot and will not be stopped by any authoriarian regime, no matter what efforts are taken to do so. DRM and lawsuits cannot stop people from behaving within the confines of a system of freedom.

Expound upon free sharing and free desimination of information and knowledge, and even technology and resources, and you will have found the answer to the question. But there's no real final solution, it requires a lot of involvement by a lot of people, on a local level, for it to gain traction with the whole.

In other words, I don't think the environment currently exists for it to be a viable approach, but in time I think the environment will *have* to cede to the pressures that true freedom constantly, always, forever exerts.

[Skip Intro]

4. Yes, crazy. Yes. It's shocking. Just shocking.

The very idea that the people should be in control of this nation that is supposedly of and by and for the people.

Crazy, left-fringe ideas.

Hello, guantanamo.

[Jamastiene]

2. What was that saying in the 60s?

There was a saying in the 60s. It went something like this: "Turn on, tune in, and drop out." Something like that?

That is what we should do...without delay. We should do our own thing. Damn the government. Look at them as the bullies who keep getting in the way. Deal with them when we have to. We should go ahead and start forming our own Utopia by keeping connected with each other and organizing proactive communities, businesses, and policies, independent of our misrepresentative "government."

Instead of hoping our tax dollars will go to green renewable energy, let's just do it on our own and find a way to make vehicles priced competitively, very easy to use and maintain, and marketed to high heaven.

Fuck it. We are going to have to do it ourselves. Our government has no clue what the American people are really like. It has no clue what our lives are like. It has no clue who we are. It does not care. It never has. We are only numbers to them. That is all we ever will be to them.

That is all they are to me now too. We have 121 more days to go? Oh, good grief! That seems like a lifetime to go. Four more months. Four more months. If we can make it four more months, there may be some light at the end of the tunnel. Let's just hope it is not a Bush/Cheney/Crappy Congress train coming back to slam us again.

The therapy and recovery time from the last 8 years may take a lifetime though, unfortunately. It would be best if we kept very very busy to stave off the post traumatic stress.

Btw, K&R :kick:

[earth mom]

5. Agree with you totally...but I'm sorry to say that people won't "take it back" unless they have

nothing left to lose.

We're just not there................yet.

[Skip Intro]

6. This rant was inpired by Iron Maiden.

Where eagles dare, baby.

[intheflow]

7. Are you trying to organize anarchists to form reform government?

Because anarchists don't believe in government. :shrug:

[Skip Intro]

9. governement is broken, it needs reforming, I'll listen to all quarters

[intheflow]

10. Right, I'm all for keeping an open mind when organizing

for positive political change. But people who don't believe in government have been running the country for 7 years now. I can appreciate anarchist movements but still not think they're a group to consult about government. Just because a group is on the left doesn't mean their views aren't extremist and detrimental to peace.

[Skip Intro]

12. We can hear their views. Can't imagine it's all bad, irrelevant bs we should all wash ourselves of.

I wanna hear the anarchist view.

[GliderGuider]

16. Why do you think anarchist views are "extremist and detrimental to peace"?

Seriously, where did you get that idea? From news reports of some broken windows in Seattle?

Most modern governments (take the US governments over the last 150 years as an example) are much more extremist and detrimental to peace than any anarchist philosophy.

[intheflow]

22. Why *don't* you think anarchists are extremist and detrimental to peace?

That's the definition of anarchy. A lot of people calling themselves anarchists these days--I'm talking about the young adults who go to demonstrations wearing bandanas on their faces--are not anarchists in the true sense of the word. They're the 2000's version of hippies, imo. I know a few who are very peaceful, counter-culture people, who refer to themselves as anarchists, but I don't think they fully grasp the historical, contextual depth of meaning the word represents. According to Merriam-Webster:

anarchist
One entry found.


Main Entry:
an·ar·chist
Pronunciation:
\ˈa-nər-kist, -ˌnär-\
Function:
noun
Date:
1678
1: a person who rebels against any authority, established order, or ruling power
2: a person who believes in, advocates, or promotes anarchism or anarchy ; especially : one who uses violent means to overthrow the established order
— anarchist or an·ar·chis·tic \ˌa-nər-ˈkis-tik, -(ˌ )när-\ adjective


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anarchist

Edited to add the definition of anarchy. I hate it when dictionaries refer to a root wood when defining a derrivitive word!

anarchy
One entry found.


Main Entry:
an·ar·chy
Pronunciation:
\ˈa-nər-kē, -ˌnär-\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Medieval Latin anarchia, from Greek, from anarchos having no ruler, from an- + archos ruler — more at arch-
Date:
1539
1 a: absence of government b: a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c: a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government
2 a: absence or denial of any authority or established order b: absence of order : disorder <not manicured plots but a wild anarchy of nature — Israel Shenker>
3: anarchism

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anarchy

[GliderGuider]

29. Because I investigated the various anarchist philosophies carefully before adopting the label myself

I certainly did more a lot more work than merely reading an internet dictionary entry.

I call myself an anarcho-primitivist, and in this area am influenced by the writing of John Zerzan, Daniel Quinn, Riane Eisler, John Moore, and others.

[formercia]

17. Organizing Anarchists

an oxymoron if I ever heard one.

Anarchists in groups are bogus.

[intheflow]

23. I know!

It amazes me how many people don't see to understand that.

[dysfunctional press]

24. anarchists are libertarians with stronger drugs.

and both groups can go fuck themselves. or each other.
as long as they stay out of the way of people seeking meaningful change.

[wiggle-room]

8. Yes. Honesty. Yes.

K&R.

[Aristus]

11. Utopia NOW!

...sorry...

[GliderGuider]

13. Speaking as a recently minted anarchist

I think we (civilization in general, not just you Yanks) have a problem that goes much deeper than the things the gummint does or the way it does them. The problem is that the existence of government an an institution (regardless of any specific ideology) is a large part part of the problem. There's a more comprehensive explanation of this position in my article http://www.paulchefurka.ca/Politics.html">"Political Will, Political Won't".

The problem is that the acceptance of the legitimacy and necessity of mass government is so deeply embedded in our global culture that it's impossible to challenge. As joshcryer implies above, in order for any competing paradigm to arise, we need a rupture in the power of the guardian institutions of our culture, including politics. Fortunately, such a rupture may be coming as the world hits a variety of limits to growth in the next couple of decades.

Now is not yet the time for revolution, but it's never too early to prepare.

[Selatius]

14. You should read David Schweickart's plan on changing the way we live.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4108572&mesg_id=4108736

He presents an alternative economic model that is based on free markets but is more egalitarian and can be done without heavy authoritarianism.

[GliderGuider]

15. Is his plan predicated on continually declining material production and consumption?

If not, then it's a non-starter from the word go, in this anarchist's opinion. Any philosophy or plan that accepts the current growth paradigm to any degree doesn't understand to source of all our problems. Hierarchies and the growing wealth and power disparities they automatically generate are but a symptom of this underlying misapprehension of reality: that continual growth is possible in a finite environment.

[Selatius]

26. It's predicated on the notion of sustainable development, not unsustainable development.

So I would say that no, his plan is not predicated upon the idea of unlimited growth in a limited world.

[L. Coyote]

18. Buy a small farm and build one! n/t

[formercia]

19. You have to do it alone

a kinder, gentler anarchy.

Anyone who is waiting for the 'government' to do something is crazy. Governments run on taxes, and if people don't keep buying bigger and more expensive properties, bureaucrats can't keep expanding their fiefdoms and salaries to match.

How many of you know of a small town that used to be run by a part-time town clerk but that now the tax base increased, there is a town manager and staff to match? This is bullshit. It's bureaucratic welfare.

Little and poor is bad in their eyes.

Learn to be self-sufficient. Learn to make do or do without.

Use their mantra against them: "Starve the beast."

[L. Coyote]

20. I was told, "Noone can fight the Government alone." I said, "But, everyone can."

It is the sum of our actions, from the bottom up, that creates Utopia.

Self-sufficiency is step ONE!
First, overcome dependence on the system.
Second, produce a surplus locally, food, energy .....

Living off the rest of the world has failed! Adjust now.

[formercia]

25. "The sum of our actions"

One piss-ant is nothing. Millions, and they have a problem.

[TexasObserver]

21. Wow, that is, like, so profound, dude!

But I'm gonna have to pass on the whole notion.

Slogging it out in the political system is a royal pain in the ass, but it's what we have.

[FatDave]

27. I've been thinking about direct democracy for a few years.

The entire country gets to vote on all legistlation, which can be drafted by anyone. With internet support of a certain level, the legislation goes up for a vote. Maybe every tuesday is a voting day, maybe just the 1st tuesday of each month. Make every post office a polling place. The president has no authority to veto the people, and his sole power becomes the bully pulpit.

Where it alway breaks down in my mind is that within a week or two, we'd do away with all taxation and the system could not be funded.

[Odin2005]

28. Utopianism leads to totalitarianism when the Utopians take control.

I suggest you read The Open Society and It's enemies by Karl Popper.