It will be codified into law, the United States Government is Fascist.

[Greyhound]

If you do not read this bill, you will never forgive yourself.

Page 7 is where it really starts to get good. The politically appointed Secretary of the Treasury becomes more powerful than the legislative and has authority, among many other things, to...

(3) Designating financial institutions as financial agents of the Federal Government, and such institutions shall perform all such reasonable duties related to this Act as financial agents of the Federal Government as may be required.

It just keeps getting better the further you read. The SOT has De Facto dictatorial powers over the entire United States financial system. He can designate any class of debt as excluded from any bankruptcy, he can do anything he wants simply because he wants to.

Don't believe it? http://www.latimes.com/media/acrobat/2008-09/42631254.pdf">Read the bill.


E to fix linky thingy

[seemslikeadream]

1. It is offical then

No doubt

[Greyhound]

2. Imagine how much fun it will be when collection agencies have federal authority. n/t

[nashville_brook]

9. whoa -- that's one hell of an eye-opening spin on it.

terrifying, for certain.

i was just thinking about how easy it is to have a black mark on your credit without you even knowing about it -- say, from a trip to the emergency room, where 10 different bills come from different places (labs, ambulance, imagining, docs, etc).

[Usrename]

22. Cooperation with the FBI is also mandated.

Section 127.

That cannot be good. Whatever happened to judicial review?

[KakistocracyHater]

26. In my nightmares they

come for the debt owed for all that Made in China stuff;I can't run anywhere because they have the 'right' to pursue me to any nation. Hope this is dead wrong & I'm just being strange; I hope governors lock them out or mayors veto it-"not in my city", if it is as bad as it seems.

[NeoTheo]

3. You didn't know it was coming?

Then you probably haven't heard the part about the nuclear war we are heading into either, huh?

[stillcool]

4. But if the government is purchasing..

'troubled assets' shouldn't those be under the purview of the government? Isn't that the purpose?

[galileoreloaded]

5. Not buying the assets, buying the securities behind the assets....n/t

[stillcool]

6. I guess I really don't comprehend the language..

(1) AUTHORITY.—The Secretary is authorized
10 to establish a troubled asset relief program (or
11 ‘‘TARP’’) to purchase, and to make and fund com12
mitments to purchase, troubled assets from any fi13
nancial institution, on such terms and conditions as
14 are determined by the Secretary, and in accordance
15 with this Act and the policies and procedures devel16
oped and published by the Secretary.
17 (2) COMMENCEMENT OF PROGRAM.—


(3) EXTENT OF GUARANTEE.—Upon request of
13 a financial institution, the Secretary may guarantee
14 the timely payment of principal of, and interest on,
15 troubled assets in amounts not to exceed 100 per16
cent of such payments. Such guarantee may be on
17 such terms and conditions as are determined by the
18 Secretary, provided that such terms and conditions
19 are consistent with the purposes of this Act.
20 (b) REPORTS.—Not later than 90 days after the date
21 of enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall report to the
22 appropriate committees of Congress on the program estab23
lished under subsection (a).

[galileoreloaded]

11. The can't buy an individual mortgage per say...

because due to the nature of the debt, the way it was sliced and diced, prevents a clear lien holder. Say you bought a house with an 80-20, very common on vintage 2004-2007 loans. This is one example of "creative" financing, there are many. Then you go get a HELOC, or home equity line of credit. That makes three loans, with separate debt holders, all collateralize the same piece of property. Too hard to get a title report on MILLIONS of these properties and sort out who owns what, so the government is just buying the bundles of debt.

The debt gets bought, not the underlying asset. They are paying the banks, but can't go out to sell the property, but in limited cases, because they don't take title, like in the RTC. They are using taxpayer money to recapitalize the banks, and will only be repaid when the value of those properties exceeds the original note, what they are paying. Here is the kicker, by suspending FASB 157, they are no longer having to mark or value at today's value, but instead are valuing and PAYING the value at maturity, or when paid off.

The plan works when either housing prices reach 2006 values, or the dollar inflates enough, say 12% per year, to effectively shrink the debt.

That is why the plan is a sham. Maybe if they told us, we would feel different.

[stillcool]

14. I'm sorry to be so dense,

but the repayment is made once the bank, whatever, has acquired the total assets that equal the loan, bailout, given by the government? Thank you very much for taking the time to explain this. Do you know what the March 2008 date is about?

[galileoreloaded]

17. I think you are asking how the government gets paid?

They get paid when the value gets back to a point where a private entity will buy it. Then it is sold back into the private market, they say with a profit, but this is highly doubtful for say, oh 15 years. More than likely, the carrying costs will get factored in, and they will be sold at a loss, relative to keeping them on the books and paying the interest. Basically, they know prices are deteriorating, and the only "bank" big enough to absorb the losses for 10 or 15 years (potentially) is the government, as there is an unending supply of revenue, YOU.

[Greyhound]

7. It makes a political appointee, the SoT, an unrestrained dictator.

That makes everything else in this bill irrelevant.

[Poseidan]

8. ...

The entire bill should be temporary, at most, only lasting until the 'crises' abates or until other measures can replace the emergency measure. Without question, no American should have unrestrained power.

If the problem is -50 + 50, the = is not 700,000,000,000. No dictators.

[WestWingEmpty]

18. Plus the dictator get's a pay raise.

See Sec 101.a.2.B page 7 under Clerical Amendment. That Section 5315 of title 5 bumps up the pay for the SOT.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Civics 101... how do you think the Secretary of Defense

spends the moneys allocated to him? For example, when there is a spending bill passed?

I know I have been banging my head against the wall, but this is NOT outside the standards set about the executive and the legislative branches of government.

Whenever the legislative assigns moneys to the executive, they have that authority. The way they supervise is through hearings and in this case the special office created to supervise them.

This has been the way since oh 1787...

:banghead:

There are supervisory mechanisms in the bill. This is NOT what Paulson wanted.

[WestWingEmpty]

23. A bit different.

Normally the money is given to do things the government is supposed to do. This is blank check to buy anything he wants. A bit of difference.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Read the bill, it is not quite a blank check

and the last time this kind of intervention from the guv'ment happened during the depression... and some of those bills were rushed as well, and some folks were against them for similar reasons

Why do you think chicago school economists are so against it?

[WestWingEmpty]

27. The blank I was refering to was

the To: field not the Amount: field.

700 Billion is a lot and there are no restrictions on how they spend it.

Not to sound dumb but what's the Chicago School Economists?

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. It is NOT 700B... they start at 350... with another 100 discretionary

after that they need to go back to congress

Chicago School are members of the neoliberal school of economics, otherwise referred to as Disaster Capitalist

They have not been able to get their way

Now I will do yet another readying of yet another draft... been readying drafts all week, and seen this evolve... the part that worried ME, was the rumor that section 108... that is the part covering the housing, was out.. it is still in... and I need to read that part carefully. That is main-street

What I can say is that this has gone so far from what Paulson originally proposed it is not even funny. I suspect he's not in the driving seat anymore, and neither is Bush (well, he hasn't from the early days)

Oh and now the foreclosure mitigation is section 109... oif they added

:-)

[DemoTex]

36. Chicago School

Think Uncle Miltie Freidman. Read The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism by Naomi Klein to better understand what nadinbrzezinski is referring to and to better understand the last 30-40 years and why we are where we are today.

[MindMatter]

10. Just another formalization of "Privatize the profits, socialize the risks"

That isn't just hyperbole in this instance. That is EXACTLY what the bill does. That's the ONLY thing this bill does. The 116 pages are simply saying HOW we will do it.

We always knew the Republican rule was "Privatize the profits, socialize the risks" but it is truly shocking to see it spelled out so clearly on paper. And even more shocking to see Democrats taking the lead on it.

We have met the enemy and it is us.

[Greyhound]

12. It actually, in this version, goes much further than that.

This is appalling, even worse than expected.

This could quite literally be used to end civilian government. You have to read the text beyond the numbers, especially the powers of the SoT and follow through the permutations of/to the existing structures and definitions.

[WestWingEmpty]

24. What is the definition of "Troubled Asset"?

Let's see page 5 #9B. Hmm this can't be right. It's anything the SOT and Fed Chairman say they are after writing congress a memo.

Hmm no oversight?

[Trillo]

13. Yes. I posted that a day or two ago.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4100216&mesg_id=4100926

I'm really glad you also saw it.

[Greyhound]

15. Ms. Greyhound has been going over it all day (you ever read a bill?) and

pointed this out as well as a very long list of features that nobody is talking about. Most of it is cover for the important parts, the parts where we get to pay all the imagined profits these frauds were supposed to generate without even getting the assets, the parts about the SoT becoming ruler of the nation, and so forth.

[Trillo]

16. Yes, but not this one in its entirety.

I've been trying to understand the overview, mostly. There was time in a past life (figure of spch) when I was a trader, and I read everything I could get my hands on, and ended up with 3-4ft of books about technical analysis. (it's where my alias comes from) Anyway, one aspect of the biz I could never understand was derivatives, no matter how many articles or other things I read about them. I chose not to buy or sell them, because I didn't understand them.

I believe I finally, the other day, realized what they were, and how they fit into this. Essentially they're just arbitrary pieces of paper where two private entities agree to do certain things if pre-defined conditions are met. Those pre-defined conditions can be complex, but that's another matter. Consequently, derivatives are wrapped up in carefully-preened bullshit in order "to sell" them.

So, what this bill does is turn worthless derivatives into "coin", by assigning them 'a value'. Yes, there's apparently a subtle constitutional distinction between "coin" and "money", but for one example most folks consider "a quarter" (coin) money.

This bill should be unconstitutional, because congress has the sole power to coin. This could be why the original Paulson plan wanted Judicial Branch review struck. However, the Federal Reserve itself should also be unconstitutional, and why it isn't is, I'm sure, a good topic for a legal student to write many papers about.

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

That's my take on it so far. It turns worthless corporate paper into coin or money, and only Congress is supposed to have that power.

I could sure use that power myself, but for some reason I believe that if I or nearly any other citizen were to try it, we'd get locked up in prison for a very long time.

[WestWingEmpty]

19. Coin is Coin

Read the Coinage act of 1792. That is what they meant.

[Selatius]

20. Our government has been dying since the 1960s. All those assassinations.

And it appears the only people who survived were the current crop of corporatists.

[earth mom]

28. OMFG haven't read it yet, but it sounds like Debtor prisons are next.

:scared:

:tinfoilhat:

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Read it, and civics 101 should come into play

Use a dictionary if needed

[earth mom]

35. Here, educate yourself because it sounds like you need to be educated-badly.

Sorry, but 95% of the population can't be wrong and know a scam when they see one.

Do you even realize that even Paulson can't understand this bailout?!

But oh, yeah, according to you 95% of the country needs to get educated because no one is as smart as you.

Sorry, but 95% of the population can't be wrong.

You need to ask yourself just exactly why you've allowed yourself to be one of the few to side with the criminals.

Because this entire thing is nothing more than theft using fear just like they did with 911.

MIHOP all the way.

p.s. Don't forget to read Moores pps at the bottom-there's your Great Depression 2 right there AKA blackmail.




FYI:
Michael Moore: The Rich Are Staging A Coup This Morning (Swiping The Silverware On Way Out The Door)

Let me cut to the chase. The biggest robbery in the history of this country is taking place as you read this. Though no guns are being used, 300 million hostages are being taken. Make no mistake about it: After stealing a half trillion dollars to line the pockets of their war-profiteering backers for the past five years, after lining the pockets of their fellow oilmen to the tune of over a hundred billion dollars in just the last two years, Bush and his cronies -- who must soon vacate the White House -- are looting the U.S. Treasury of every dollar they can grab. They are swiping as much of the silverware as they can on their way out the door.


No matter what they say, no matter how many scare words they use, they are up to their old tricks of creating fear and confusion in order to make and keep themselves and the upper one percent filthy rich. Just read the first four paragraphs of the lead story in last Monday's New York Times and you can see what the real deal is:

"Even as policy makers worked on details of a $700 billion bailout of the financial industry, Wall Street began looking for ways to profit from it.

"Financial firms were lobbying to have all manner of troubled investments covered, not just those related to mortgages.

"At the same time, investment firms were jockeying to oversee all the assets that Treasury plans to take off the books of financial institutions, a role that could earn them hundreds of millions of dollars a year in fees.

"Nobody wants to be left out of Treasury's proposal to buy up bad assets of financial institutions."


Unbelievable. Wall Street and its backers created this mess and now they are going to clean up like bandits. Even Rudy Giuliani is lobbying for his firm to be hired (and paid) to "consult" in the bailout.

The problem is, nobody truly knows what this "collapse" is all about. Even Treasury Secretary Paulson admitted he doesn't know the exact amount that is needed (he just picked the $700 billion number out of his head!). The head of the congressional budget office said he can't figure it out nor can he explain it to anyone.


And yet, they are screeching about how the end is near! Panic! Recession! The Great Depression! Y2K! Bird flu! Killer bees! We must pass the bailout bill today!! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Falling for whom? NOTHING in this "bailout" package will lower the price of the gas you have to put in your car to get to work. NOTHING in this bill will protect you from losing your home. NOTHING in this bill will give you health insurance.

Health insurance? Mike, why are you bringing this up? What's this got to do with the Wall Street collapse?

It has everything to do with it. This so-called "collapse" was triggered by the massive defaulting and foreclosures going on with people's home mortgages. Do you know why so many Americans are losing their homes? To hear the Republicans describe it, it's because too many working class idiots were given mortgages that they really couldn't afford. Here's the truth:

The number one cause of people declaring bankruptcy is because of medical bills.

Let me state this simply: If we had had universal health coverage, this mortgage "crisis" may never have happened.

This bailout's mission is to protect the obscene amount of wealth that has been accumulated in the last eight years. It's to protect the top shareholders who own and control corporate America. It's to make sure their yachts and mansions and "way of life" go uninterrupted while the rest of America suffers and struggles to pay the bills. Let the rich suffer for once. Let them pay for the bailout. We are spending 400 million dollars a day on the war in Iraq. Let them end the war immediately and save us all another half-trillion dollars!

I have to stop writing this and you have to stop reading it. They are staging a financial coup this morning in our country. They are hoping Congress will act fast before they stop to think, before we have a chance to stop them ourselves. So stop reading this and do something -- NOW! Here's what you can do immediately:

1. Call or e-mail Senator Obama. Tell him he does not need to be sitting there trying to help prop up Bush and Cheney and the mess they've made. Tell him we know he has the smarts to slow this thing down and figure out what's the best route to take. Tell him the rich have to pay for whatever help is offered. Use the leverage we have now to insist on a moratorium on home foreclosures, to insist on a move to universal health coverage, and tell him that we the people need to be in charge of the economic decisions that affect our lives, not the barons of Wall Street.

2. Take to the streets. Participate in one of the hundreds of quickly-called demonstrations that are taking place all over the country (especially those near Wall Street and DC).

3. Call your Representative in Congress and your Senators. (click here to find their phone numbers). Tell them what you told Senator Obama.

When you screw up in life, there is hell to pay. Each and every one of you reading this knows that basic lesson and has paid the consequences of your actions at some point. In this great democracy, we cannot let there be one set of rules for the vast majority of hard-working citizens, and another set of rules for the elite, who, when they screw up, are handed one more gift on a silver platter. No more! Not again!

Yours,
Michael Moore
[e-mail]
MichaelMoore.com

P.S. Having read further the details of this bailout bill, you need to know you are being lied to. They talk about how they will prevent golden parachutes. It says NOTHING about what these executives and fat cats will make in SALARY. According to Rep. Brad Sherman of California, these top managers will continue to receive million-dollar-a-month paychecks under this new bill. There is no direct ownership given to the American people for the money being handed over. Foreign banks and investors will be allowed to receive billion-dollar handouts. A large chunk of this $700 billion is going to be given directly to Chinese and Middle Eastern banks. There is NO guarantee of ever seeing that money again.

P.P.S. From talking to people I know in DC, they say the reason so many Dems are behind this is because Wall Street this weekend put a gun to their heads and said either turn over the $700 billion or the first thing we'll start blowing up are the pension funds and 401(k)s of your middle class constituents. The Dems are scared they may make good on their threat. But this is not the time to back down or act like the typical Democrat we have witnessed for the last eight years. The Dems handed a stolen election over to Bush. The Dems gave Bush the votes he needed to invade a sovereign country. Once they took over Congress in 2007, they refused to pull the plug on the war. And now they have been cowered into being accomplices in the crime of the century. You have to call them now and say "NO!" If we let them do this, just imagine how hard it will be to get anything good done when President Obama is in the White House. THESE DEMOCRATS ARE ONLY AS STRONG AS THE BACKBONE WE GIVE THEM. CALL CONGRESS NOW.

[RoyGBiv]

29. No it won't ...

And I've read the bill.

It's far from perfect. Hell, this whole situation has such deep roots, there's no way it can be fixed with a single piece of legislation, so there is no such thing as a "perfect" solution. However, there are elements to this bill that, if they weren't included specifically to address the possibility of incorporating fascist economic theory, do so by happenstance anyway.

One could argue that Paulson's original plan was fascist in nature, but this is not Paulson's plan.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. This is part of the bill

(g) REPORTS.—The Financial Stability Oversight
11 Board shall report to the appropriate committees of Con12
gress and the Congressional Oversight Panel established
13 under section 125, semiannually, on the matters described
14 under subsection (a)(1).

This does not happen in a fascist government... and I am just getting started

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. More on the NON FASCIST aspects of this bill

SEC. 105. REPORTS.
2 (a) IN GENERAL.—Before the expiration of the 60-
3 day period beginning on the date of the first exercise of
4 the authority granted in section 101(a), or of the first ex5
ercise of the authority granted in section 102, whichever
6 occurs first, and every 30-day period thereafter, the Sec7
retary shall report to the appropriate committees of Con8
gress, with respect to each such period—

[azul]

34. What about only central banks being excluded from bailouts?

Any foreign or international corporation that owns these toxic US mortgages and equities is eligible to tap into this US taxpayer bailout plan.

Don't China and other countries own many of these bundled assets, and can they transfer them from sovereign wealth funds to corporations to be able to dump them?

I guess bailing out foreign financials had to be included to keep the international field level.

That intro spiel about helping individual Americans in financial trouble is kinda funny.

[MadHound]

37. But, but, but we're all going to die if we don't pass this bill!!

Once again Bushco played the fear card, and Congress stampeded right off the cliff, taking the rest of the country with them. You would think we'd learn after going through this twice before, but sadly that doesn't appear to be the case.