Guardian : McCain was not tortured, PoW guard claims

[cal04]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/14/uselections2008-johnmccain

The Republican US presidential candidate John McCain was not tortured during his captivity in North Vietnam, the chief prison guard of the jail in which he was held has claimed.

In an interview with the Italian daily Corriere della Sera, Nguyen Tien Tran acknowledged that conditions in the prison were "tough, though not inhuman". But, he added: "We never tortured McCain. On the contrary, we saved his life, curing him with extremely valuable medicines that at times were not available to our own wounded."

(snip)
Tran, now 75, said McCain reached Hanoi with the worst injuries he had seen in a downed pilot. But he denied torturing him, saying it was his mission to ensure that McCain survived. As the son of the US naval commander in Vietnam, he offered a potential valuable propaganda weapon.

(snip)
Tran told Corriere that McCain was sent to hospital the day after he was brought to Hanoi and stayed there for a month. "I never lost him from sight. I was frightened a doctor or nurse might do him harm."

[thunder rising]

1. Not tortured, provided free medical attention (not available to US citizens BTW), and was kept safe.

That's what I was thinking.

[Betsy Ross]

2. The truth probably lies somewhere between

the two stories.

[JuniperLea]

4. Three-sided story, to be sure...

I agree.

[yardwork]

10. However, according to current U.S. policy, McCain was not tortured.

McCain himself voted for the bill making things that any normal human being consider to be torture nothing more than "enhanced interrogation techniques" so even if he was tortured by your and my opinions, he wasn't tortured in the eyes of the U.S. government, who do the same or worse to our "enemy combatants" (not to be confused with prisoners of war - who would have to be accorded treatment in line with the Geneva Convention).

[Overseas]

3. K&R -- for more background on the McPowPow stuff.

Glad the story is from an Italian paper that interviewed someone directly involved.

[emulatorloo]

5. I call BS -- This guy does not sound credible. No cooberation of his story. Read the last paragraph

As to why McCain, then 36, left North Vietnam with prematurely grey hair, Tran denied it was because of mistreatment. "It's that in prison you think too much."

YEAH, RIGHT

Sounds like pure fantasy to me

[dogtag]

7. McCain's hair was already

graying when he was on the Forrestal. Check out the CNN bio pic. It's a good story, but not true.

Five years spent anywhere would certainly make his hair even more gray.

[unblock]

15. what form of torture turns hair grey???

i once worked with a very happy 22 year old who had completely white hair.

steve martin also was never tortured, afaik.

torture can lead to all sorts of permanent injuries, but i doubt greying hair is one of them.

[Sanity Claws]

19. Malnutrition can do it

[leftofcool]

6. Yea, right

and I suppose no other prisoners were tortured either.

[On the Road]

8. I'm Sure Nguyen Tien Tran Would Say he Same Thing as Bush Has

They subject detainees to "rough treatment" but do not torture.

[progressoid]

9. Lets not go down this road.

Rumsfeld and Tenet say we don't torture people either.

[Turn CO Blue]

21. I'm with you. I'm not going here. I honor McCain

for his service, same as I would any other soldier, seaman, or marine. I do happen to think he should have been reassigned or dismissed for crashing so many fighters before he was sent to war...but I'm hardly alone in that.

I don't even care about his playboy ways in his early life.

McCain should be admonished for the lack of character that has emerged in the last years, for his despicable policies, and for letting neo-cons and lobbiests control his campaign.

[Poseidan]

11. not even slightly surprised

Of course, why else would McCain never care about mentions of torture, the practice of torture, or the exploitation of his own purported torture?

[14thColony]

12. It was just Enhanced Interrogation techniques

But it's ok since they were declared "air pirates" and therefore unlawful combatants and therefore the Laws of Armed Conflict didn't apply but it wasn't torture anyway and plus the North Vietnamese Minister of Defense cleared it all 'cause his lawyers said it was all good to go legally because the Geneva Conventions were quaint and outdated and besides knowing about the next airstrike was clearly a ticking bomb scenario...

Did I miss anything?

[htuttle]

13. Jobs...

You forgot about how it was going to create jobs...or sumptin.

[14thColony]

16. Oh yeah

and keep the Homeland safe too.

[Olney Blue]

14. We should leave McCain's service alone. He suffered regardless.

[greeneyedboy]

17. agree completely -- don't go there n/t

Even if it were true, this campaign should be about 2009-2012, and 2000-2008, but anything earlier than that is not really that relevant.

With three weeks left, now is not the time to go off message.

[greeneyedboy]

18. off-message. there are dozens of other reasons not to vote McCain.

This campaign is about the failures of conservative ideology and Republican policy, and how Barack Obama and the Democratic congress are going to clean up their mess and build a stronger and better country.

[progressoid]

23. Well said. n/t

[TheWraith]

20. Riiiight. And I've got a rocket-car.

The phrase "No, I never tortured anybody" is automatically suspect in my book.

[Waiting For Everyman]

22. K&R

[ColoradoMagician]

24. I will go there.

I think he was tortured. I won't vote for him to be president, but I am sure it happened. It was wartime and I doubt the North Vietamese were all that concerned about humanely treating the people they were at war with.

Also, McCain made that propaganda stuff for the Vietamese. I am sure that he only did that to stop the torture.

The guy can barely move both of his shoulders, this is hardly an example of the best of medical care at the time.

Don't vote because someone may have been tortured, but please don't dismiss it.

[Jed Dilligan]

25. It sucks when people lie about war crimes against your own people.

Wonder how it feels to be an Iraqi right now?