Subject: Nazi Socialism

[Octafish]

From Bartcop:

Subject: Nazi Socialism

I'm no expert on Nazi history, but I know more than Dave Pittman.
That National Socialist Party line the right likes to toss out is BS.

True, Hitler ran as a socialist, but that was just like Bush running as a compassionate conservative.
The economy in Germany after WWI was terrible.  The socialist party offered real promise,
and Adolph rode it into power, but once there, all pretenses were off.

He needed the support of the banks and the rich in order to consolidate his power,
like Bush, so Hitler quickly assured them that all that socialist crap was just talk.

Hitler ordered the assassination of his fellow socialists to get them out of the way
and created his own special security force, the SS, kind of like Blackwater.

That's creepy.

The BFEE rise to power has so many parallels with the rise of the Nazis that it's frightening.
Such talk though, quickly gets derided when its pointed out that Bush hasn't built any ovens.
That's beside the point, Hitler didn't start building any ovens either until well into his reign.
Here's hoping we can end the new Reich in five days.

-- Bruce Yurgil

SOURCE: http://www.bartcop.com/2239.htm

That's why so many give a damn.

[Kip Humphrey]

1. No ovens? How 'bout the 21 internment camps built across the USA by KBR?

Do you know there are no ovens there?

[Octafish]

3. The contract gives the gov the option to buy more.

"The ovens" conjures up images of the most reprehensible regime in history.
Odd how so many of its members have direct ties to the world's richest people and most powerful organizations today.

Know your BFEE: Eugenics and the NAZIs - The California Connection

Getting back to business:

Halliburton's Internment Camps

NAZIs don't just round up their political enemies. They round up everybody who's not a NAZI.

[skooooo]

2. The Nazis used the word "socialism" to fool the people..

...it has nothing to do with socialism. They just tacked that word onto the name of their party to make people think it was populist oriented. Quite the opposite, it was totalitarian in nature.

[TKolmsi]

4. Question

Is totalitarian appropriate for both the extreme left and extreme right? Or just for the latter?

[skooooo]

6. I think totalitarianism..

..is totalitarianism.

[DireStrike]

12. Totalitarian works all around.

when I hear totalitarian, I still have my 8th grade definition in mind - "The individual is nothing, the state is everything."

[bean fidhleir]

26. That's close, but still not a good thumbnail

It would be more accurate to say "the individual exists to serve the rulers of the state". Another thumbnail -the origin of which I don't know; it might have been coined by T.H.White- is "everything not forbidden is compulsory", which is the same thing from a slightly different angle.

[Octafish]

8. For traitors, liars and NAZIs, the value of propaganda cannot be overstated.

What I don't understand is why thinking people who hate NAZIs, like Henry Kissinger, still serve them.

“I don’t see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist because of the irresponsibility of its own people.”
—Henry Kissinger, June 27, 1970

Then, I remember people who worship power, prestige and profit can overlook anything.

Beat the BFEE: Poppy’s CIA warned about terror plots and did not stop them

Really, though: When it comes to NAZI, what's in a word?
Evil.

[cemaphonic]

23. yeah, these arguements are silly

The Nazis *hated* communists and socialists. In the elections in the years before the Nazis took complete control of the government, they would have huge street fights aimed at intimidating each others voters. They did adopt a few party positions that could be considered socialist, and as you say, they definitely adopted some of the rhetoric to appeal to the public.

[pretzel4gore]

5. hitler never ran as a 'socialist'

national socialism mean state socialism, with the state (representing the racial type) acting as single unit- all business and pleasure was thus subordinate to ideal of pure Germanic tribe taking over the world. Socialism in most normal references means the public interest, as defined with majority, or the workforce, in mind. Hitler exploited the workforce, though he obviously made sure they were paid enough to be healthy/happy. Giving the workforce enough to live decently is rarely a problem, but the reactionaries know low wages mean an eager beaver workforce, which is good...so fight any effort to pay decent wages, and esp. any effort to empower the workforce on its own to get decent wages by their own power, ie 'unions'...also, never forget that hitler was empowered by the reactionaries in the allied countries-as were the bolsheviks in USSR. W/out their stupidity, Germany's Weimar Republic would have had enough money to survive (and notice mr pig doesn't mention whose side he was on during those battles!) and w/out Stalin the nazis might never have gotten outta Munich anyway
lies feed the demon of ignorance, and therefore bush and reagan etc actually are took serious

[Octafish]

14. There are many parallels...

One can start with how Smirko d'Pigseed, like der Schickelgrüber, never was elected by a majority in a fair election. He was backed by people of means who do not believe in democracy and will do whatever it takes to grab and hold power -- from rigging elections to eliminating political rivals.

Then, there's the money.

Know your BFEE: Nazis couldn’t win WWII, so they / Bushes.

[pretzel4gore]

22. just saw Richard Dreyfus on Mike huckabee...

i think Dreyfus put his finger on the basic problem (which mr pig always eagerly exploits)- it's TIME! There's just no time to sort out all the facts, and then draw conclusions, and when you factor in the noosemedia (ie that's eager to hang the kids who defy da rules) it makes the mess almost impossible for any well meaning leader, who has to, in effect, try to out con the conmen, in too short time, when the conmen meanwhile break all the rules...
fukkin bush thinks he's walkin on this. geez we could sure use a mainstream media network/newpaper(!)

[leftchick]

7. ........

:)

[skooooo]

9. There ya go!

:thumbsup:

[leftchick]

11. I have had that on my fridge since 2003!

Some visitors thought I was nuts. Not so much anymore.

[Octafish]

24. McCain Celebrates Onstage with Nixon 'Jew Counter' Fred Malek

Without government as referee, power -- like wealth -- can get concentrated. Case in point, Nixon's man, Fred.

McCain Celebrates Onstage with Nixon "Jew Counter" Fred Malek

Jason Linkins
The Huffington PostOctober 31, 2008

My friends, my friends." That's, of course, John McCain's mantra. But who are Senator McCain's friends? Well, George "Macaca" Allen, late of the failed Fred Thompson campaign, is one of them. Allen played the part of introducing McCain's introducer at CPAC last week. Oh, and the introducer? That was Senator Tom Coburn, former alleged sterilizer and heroic battler of the lesbians who threatened solo trips to girls' restrooms throughout the schools of Southeast Oklahoma.

But another one of McCain's friends worth watching joined the GOP frontrunner on the stage last night as he celebrated his win in the Potomac primaries. We speak of Fred Malek, McCain's national finance co-chair, whose dark past in dirty Republican politics reaches back over thirty-five years. That's when Malek, the personnel chief for the Nixon administration, became known as the President's private "Jew counter."

It's one of the more gothic stories about Nixon related in Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein's The Final Days. As they tell it, late in 1971...Nixon summoned the White House personnel chief, Fred Malek, to his office to discuss a "Jewish cabal" in the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The "cabal," Nixon said, was tilting economic figures to make his Administration look bad. How many Jews were there in the bureau? he wanted to know. Malek reported back on the number, and told the President that the bureau's methods of weighing statistics were normal procedure that had been in use for years.
Malek's history of aiding and abetting the worst of Nixon's identity politicking isn't the only thing that should give those who believe McCain's government-reformer schtick:

As a Nixon aide, he set up a project that sought to influence government decisions to assist Nixon's 1972 reelection campaign. In 2006, Washington Post columnist Colbert King described this program as "a scheme designed, organized and implemented...to politicize the federal government in support of Nixon's reelection." Citing a memo Malek wrote about the project, King noted:


"The Malek memo also claimed another accomplishment: The steward of a dockworkers union local in Philadelphia, an active Nixon backer, had been accused of being responsible for illegal actions of the union's president. The Pennsylvania Committee to Reelect the President asked that the Labor Department rule in the steward's favor. It did, Malek claimed, adding that 'this action had a very strong impact on the local ethnic union members.'

Malek's responsiveness program was extensively investigated by the Senate Watergate committee. The panel found that the program was aimed at influencing decisions concerning government 'grants, contracts, loans, subsidies, procurement and construction projects,' decisions regarding 'legal and regulatory actions,' and even personnel decisions that affected protected 'career positions' -- all to advance Nixon's reelection.

But long before Malek went to work for CREEP, he was merely creepy. As ThinkProgress reminded back in April of last year, when Malek was but a wee lad, he was arrested for "killing, skinning, and barbecuing a dog." So, what does it say that McCain's friend is no friend to man's best friend? Maybe all those supporters of Mitt Romney, who merely strapped his dog to the top of his station wagon, had a point after all.

SOURCE:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/13/mccain-celebrates-on-stag_n_86485.html?view=print

Hi, leftchick! A most telling picture, that. History repeats, not just when we forget the past, but when the guilty are left unpunished.

[struggle4progress]

10. The politics and economic history of the Weimar Republic is complicated

The socialists in Weimar were a centrist group, represented by the Social Democrats (SPD); another group, the Independent Socialists (USPD), broke with the SPD during the Great War, which the SPD supported, but after the formation of the Communist Party (KPD) in the wake of the failure of the post-war Spartacist rebellion, the USPD largely disappeared

The KPD and SPD never formed any useful alliance but continually opposed each other: this failure of the communists and the moderate socialists to cooperate was in part responsible for the political deadlock that enabled the Nazi (NSDAP) seizure of power

The first two political parties banned by the Nazis were (first) the KPD and (second) the SPD

[Octafish]

25. Deconstructing John Yoo

Absolutely, struggle4progress. Thank you for an excellent synopsis.

Scott Horton takes it from there...

Deconstructing John Yoo

By Scott Horton

Once again, poor John Yoo, the author of the original torture memorandum and steady defender in public fora of waterboarding and crushing the genitalia of small children, feels he is being persecuted. This has been a steady theme of his writings in the Journal, in which he has lashed out against former Attorney General Ashcroft, the Supreme Court in its Rasul and Hamdan decisions, and his colleagues in academia. This time the victimizer is his own alma mater. A Yale Law School clinic has supported a lawsuit filed against him in federal court in San Francisco seeking nominal damages ($1 plus attorney’s fees and costs) on behalf of Jose Padilla. The Wall Street Journal and other organs of the Neoconservative world (of which the soft-spoken Yoo is a card-carrying member) reacted promptly and in unison. This law suit is a ludicrous act of harassment, they say, blasting away against Yale Dean Harold Koh and a series of additional windmills who have nothing to do with it.

But John Yoo’s self-defense, published on Saturday, is extremely revealing. It merits a pause and careful read through. In it, Yoo is on the warpath. Moreover, he goes out of his way to describe the nature of his warpath. The war is all about politics, he tells us. Yoo very thoughtfully allows the inner Yoo to shine through. His writing will provide plenty of grist for his severest critics. Let’s take a look.

War is a continuation of politics by other means, the German strategist Carl von Clausewitz famously observed in his 19th-century treatise, “On War.” Clausewitz surely could never have imagined that politics, pursued through our own courts, would be the continuation of war.

John Yoo likes to quote from Clausewitz these days. But does he really understand him? I don’t think so. The passage cited here, the most clichéd lines of a thoughtful but incomplete masterwork, reveals Yoo’s passion for the good sound bite and indifference to the subtleties of the texts he engages. Of course, if you’ve actually read Clausewitz, you know that this passage is crafted in a typically early nineteenth century dialectical style. It does not reflect Clausewitz’s thinking, but rather that of a straw man. Clausewitz presents his readers with an argument. One man contends that war is a “mere continuation” (“bloße Fortsetzung”) of politics, while a second says that it is “nothing more than a wrestling match.” But the synthesis view that Clausewitz articulates, and which presents the pearl in the heart of On War is far more subtle and complex. War is, he says, a dynamic and inherently unstable interaction of forces of violent emotion, chance and rational planning–his ominous trinity–which is paralleled by another trinity, namely, the people, the army and the leadership. Clausewitz stresses the imperative role played by discipline and training, clear rules, and careful planning towards a clearly conceived objective. Most military leaders in the United States today would not give the Bush Administration a passing grade on any of the key Clausewitz criteria, and Yoo is now notorious among the officer corps for his intemperate attacks contained in a shameless article he recently published in the UCLA Law Review. He all but accuses the senior tiers of the JAG Corps of disloyalty to President Bush for attempting to uphold centuries-old standards of military discipline and order. For Yoo that’s all poppycock. He knows better than military traditions that stretch back to President Washington. Indeed, Yoo’s attitudes towards traditional military rules can be summarized in a single word: contempt. That’s why whenever law of armed conflict issues came up, he never consulted the experts at the Defense Department, he coped with it himself. And he got virtually every significant issue dead wrong. Yoo is like the sorcerer’s apprentice whose half-learned incantations unleash chaos within a few hours of the master’s departure.

But Yoo’s diatribe helps us understand the role he envisions for warfare. In the Yoo conceptualization, war is used to accomplish political objectives—except that he understands “politics” the way Karl Rove does, not in the sense used by Clausewitz or Aristotle.

CONTINUED w LINKS...

http://harpers.org/archive/2008/01/hbc-90002226

These aren't ordinary times. These are gangster NAZI times.

[Swamp Rat]

13. HEIL!

:D



:hi: Wie gehts Octofische?

[Judi Lynn]

15. Kicking.

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

http://www.sedonaobserver.com.nyud.net:8090/images/bushNazi_001.jpg

[DrDebug]

16. Don't forget McCain's nazi connections

McCain's Nazi-Cocaine Connection

Well, this election is fast turning into an opposition-research-fueled shitstorm. On Meet The Press Sunday, Democratic strategist Paul Begala casually mentioned that John McCain sat on the board of the U.S. Council For World Freedom. And the Associated Press this morning elaborated on exactly what that entails. "The U.S. Council for World Freedom was part of an international organization linked to former Nazi collaborators and ultra-right-wing death squads in Central America," AP said. Very interesting! But the rest of the article doesn't give any details on these Nazis or the role of this group, called the World Anti-Communist League, in launching a "Cocaine Coup" that turned Bolivia into a drug trafficking hub and hotbed of brutal torture. Luckily a former AP and Newsweek reporter named Roberty Parry wrote an oddly fun book called Lost History , which can provide further illumination:

In 1966, the Asian Peoples Anti-Communist League expanded into the World Anti-Communist League, an international alliance that pulled together traditional conservatives with former Nazis, overt radicalists and Latin American "death squad" operatives. In an interview, reitred U.S. Army Gen. John K. Singlaub, a former WACL president (also quoted in today's AP story -ed.), said "the Japanese (WACL) chapter was taken over almost entirely by the Moonies."

Through WACL and other political relationships, (Moonies founder Sun Myung) Moon built bridges to right-wing forces in South America during the 1970s.... (a) Bolivian WACL leader (last name Gasser)... was a leading figure in the coup....

...CAUSE, one of Moon's anti-communist organizations, listed as members nearly all the leading Bolivian coup-makers.

...An architect of the Bolivian coup was World War II Nazi fugitive Klaus Barbie, who was working as a Bolivian intelligence officer under the name Klaus Altmann. Barbie drew up plans modeled after the 1976 Argentine coup and contacted the Argentines for help. As the coup took shape, Barbie organized a secret lodge, called Thule, where he lectured his followers under swastikas by candlelight.

(...)

http://gawker.com/5059938/mccains-nazi+cocaine-connection

[LostinVA]

17. Hitler NEVER ran as a Socialist -- he and his ilk HATED Socialism!

"National Socialism" was nothing but State Fascism -- they just wanted to sell the idea that the State would take care of you.

The Nazis denounced "true" Socialism and Democratic Socialism.

[malaise]

18. I love your posts

K & R

[arcadian]

19. Why do people always get this wrong?

Hitler co-opted the the German Workers Party. Took it over, changed it and just kept the name. You know why? It's obvious. German Workers Party, later the National Socialist Workers Party, is a lot friendlier than, Fascist Jew-Killing Eugenics Occultist Party.

[bean fidhleir]

27. Exactly! People like that HATE truth-in-advertising principles

They know that if they're forced to name it accurately, they might not even get many lunatics supporting it.

[bluesmail]

20. Here's a summary of *'s accomplishments as

Jim Hightower and goleft.tv has put together a vignette. At http://jimhightower.com/node/6643 I've learned history in an amazing way thanks to DU and Octafish. :thumbsup:

[AntiFascist]

21. K&R, excellent points...

"National Socialism" also had a presence in the United States, stressing militarism and national conformity. Industrialists and bankers sponsored Hitler's campaign in order to hijack the movement and bring about fascism (considered, at the time, a viable "Third Way" alternative to capitalism and communism). Fascists and Marxists have always been enemies.