Fundies whining because the IRS is going after a church for crossing the political line.....

[marmar]

:nopity:



from the American Family Association's fundie-friendly OneNewsNow:



IRS targets church political message
Charlie Butts - OneNewsNow - 10/31/2008 5:00:00 AM


Another church has been reported to the Internal Revenue Service for endorsing candidates. It's located in the tiny New Mexico town of Espanola.

Mike Naranjo pastors Rock Christian Fellowship, which uses a marquee outside of the church building to display messages to passersby. This being an election year, Naranjo put two large pictures on the sign, one of an aborted baby and the second of a healthy baby. He then put three pro-abortion candidates' names under the picture of the aborted baby and three pro-life candidates' names under the picture of the healthy baby.

"We put the last names of the candidates -- Obama -- that are pro-choice. And then on the other side we put the picture of a healthy baby and the last names of McCain and the other candidates that are pro-life," he explains.

Naranjo contends it did not take long for Espanola residents and the media to react. "I mean, it stirred up," he says. "It was like agitating an ants' nest."

Before the dust settled, Naranjo received a surprise in the mail. "And next I had heard, we were being reported by the Americans (United) for Separation of Church and State to the IRS," he adds.

Naranjo suggests he was trying to provide a voter guide similar to those distributed by the American Family Association, but his church was focusing on one issue. "Now, the problem with this is the law," he concludes. "In my opinion, it's stifling the church, the very moral conscience of America."

So far the church has no legal representation, although the Alliance Defense Fund has offered to do so. Americans United for Separation of Church and State reports that Naranjo told them he would "rather lose (his) 501(c)(3) than (his) soul."


http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=305202 (if Rick-rolled, the story is in the OneNewsNow area of the AFA homepage www.afa.net )

[Warpy]

1. Good, tax the fuckers.

Churches are perfectly protected when they tell their members what sin is according to their doctrine.

Telling people to vote to put that doctrine into secular law is where the line is. If they cross it, tax them into oblivion.

All of them.

[billyoc]

2. All they have to do is stop.

[tabasco]

6. Or start paying taxes.

Or move to another country.

Or get a Constitutional amendment passed to remove the First Amendment.

[LynnTheDem]

3. Again, not rocket surgery.

The American talibornagains and Mullicas just don't seem to comprehend the law.

[Vektor]

4. Sick fucks.

People who display sickening propaganda like this are deranged, and need to be shut down.

How demented can you get?

[juno jones]

5. Tax 'em all, Let the IRS sort 'em out n/t

[yellowcanine]

9. Good one, Nice adaptation of the Crusades mantra.

"Kill them all, let God sort them out."

[juno jones]

24. thanks

:) !

[gratuitous]

7. EVERY church knows where the line is

And these dimwits purposely walked over it. Now they're crying about having to pay taxes? That's the price you pay in this country to engage in party politics. I wonder how many donations Mr. Naranjo's congregation will get when the money in the offering plate is no longer tax deductible?

[jakefrep]

8. Good...tax the shit out of those idiots. (nt)

[TahitiNut]

10. So, paying taxes like anyone else is "stifling the church"?? Is McCain their "God"???

Assjoles!

[SidDithers]

11. Churches are not "the very moral conscience of America"...

they only think they are.

Sid

[TahitiNut]

12. People go to church for the same reason they go to a hospital.

:shrug:

Healthy folks don't go to hospitals -- except to visit.

[SidDithers]

16. Yeah. I like that...

good analogy. :hi:

Sid

[Aristus]

13. If McCain was really pro-life, would he really have been bombing innocent people

from 40,000 feet?


I'm just sayin'...

[tjwash]

14. Good...next they need to work on the Mormon assholes that bankrolled prop 8.

Although the temple in SLC suddenly pulled out their phone center and monetary support last week. They may have gotten that call from the IRS.

[Critters2]

19. Taking a stand on Prop 8 is legal.

I keep trying to get people to understand this. Churches can't endorse specific candidates or parties. They can take positions on social issues and referenda, like marriage equality, abortion, gambling, etc.

Also, there's no law (actually, we're discussing tax code) specifically governing churches in these matters. This is clause 501(c) of the US tax code. This is the same regulation which governs other non-profit corporations.

[Oak2004]

25. Yes, but only up to a point

If the efforts are "substantial" they've crossed the line.

[Connonym]

27. putting candidate names on the marquee definitely crosses that line

that takes it from ideological to political

[Cerridwen]

32. Not necessarily. I've posted on this before so I'll link to that here.

Read the .pdf I linked to in the post. They are advocating an issue specific to the election and which can be tied to candidates' stances on the issue.

They're coming mighty close to the line (I believe they've crossed it) and should be called on it. Let the IRS decide. Perhaps it will prompt the IRS to draw the lines more clearly and leave less wiggle room for shenanigans (yes, I did use the word shenanigans. :D )

link to my previous post and argument.

The main point is, when in doubt, report them and let the IRS decide.

[Oregone]

15. Revoke exemption for all churches. They are just businesses...

And their product, "Hope", doesn't even cost a damn thing to make. They are rolling in their profits.

[upi402]

17. Selling snake oil with lies and buying Mercedes and planes on Granny's pension

:nopity:
My Grandmother used to send "love gifts for jesussssssSSSS" and she was poor and rather needy. It would piss me off to pay bills for her monthly and those evil hucksters would con her into sending checks all the time. There are no shortages of cute sick babies and evil-doing liruls.

[Libertyfirst]

18. In my humble opinion

he has already lost his soul and should lose his tax deduction.

[ACTION BASTARD]

20. Good. Hopefully, this will be a chilling affect on all these illegal operating

right wing, white christian supremacist factories. Keep your dirty religion out of my nasty politics and I won't sic the tax man on your ass.

[47of74]

21. Glad to see the IRS is doing this...

It's past time for the religious right to learn that they are not above the law.

[codjh9]

22. Hey, I used to live about 10 miles south of there. Espanola is overwhelmingly DEMOCRATIC,

although of course no place is 100% consistently anything. I doubt that that church would be described as 'fundamentalist', but maybe even in Espanola there's a church that fits that description. In any case, I'm certainly not defending the church. What a bunch of crap.

Btw, Espanola isn't 'tiny', unless your reference point is NYC or LA. It's a small town, yeah... but it's probably the per-capita Low Rider Capital of the World. :^)

[davsand]

23. It is that attitude of "entitlement" that makes me nuts.

Whatever my own personal attitude might be about the merits of tax exemption for churches, i have to confess that I am completely put off by that attitude that because they are a "CHURCH!!!" they are entitled to do as they please without respect for the rules or laws.

Exemption from taxes is a privilege not an absolute right.



Laura

[Chulanowa]

26. So would htey show pictures...

One of a healthy 18 year old young man doing whatever... and the other of a mangled body of a soldier of the same age, with Obama under the first, McCain under the second?

These fetus-obsessed fucks are demented.

[and-justice-for-all]

28. Of course they are whining...

They think rules do not apply to them.

[wryter2000]

29. Hooray for AU

If you have a few bucks lying around, send them to www.au.org.

[raccoon]

30. Thanks for this great link! rec'd. nt

[noonwitch]

31. If they didn't use candidates and their names, it wouldn't be a problem

A church can make their stand on an issue clear, but can't endorse politicians.

If a church couldn't take a stand on issues, well, the archdioces in every area would be in trouble, and not just over abortion. Also over the death penalty, poverty, voting rights, stem cell research and other issues that catholics feel strongly about.

[Cerridwen]

34. See link in post #32 - that is not always the case. n/t

[tbyg52]

33. >>he would "rather lose (his) 501(c)(3) than (his) soul."

This is not a problem. Pay taxes and you can do what you like.