Police sweep nets 70 gays in Malaysia

[ccharles000]

http://www.365gay.com/news/police-sweep-nets-70-gays-in-malaysia/

(George Town, Malaysia) Malaysian police have arrested 70 men including Americans in raids on four alleged bay venues in George Town on the west coast of peninsular Malaysia.

Police said the clubs were operating behind legitimate businesses and were uncovered during a routine vice blitz in a seedy part of town. The city is popular with foreign tourists.

Vice officers said one of the clubs was operating in a traditional massage parlor; three others were “disguised” as fitness clubs.

Police said that in several of the early morning raids, they found men engaged in sex. In others they found “evidence sex had occurred.” They said that officers found gay pornography, condoms and sex toys in four of the locations.

Those arrested were booked and released on bail after being given court dates. They are charged with gross indecency and if convicted would be subject to floggings and up to 20 years in prison.

[amdezurik]

1. what a cesspool of a country

and the fundies want that model for here...

[tjwash]

3. Malaysia is actually pretty nice.

I lived in Georgetown on Penang for 3 years. It's hardly a cesspool. Hell, after the US finishes devolving into a 3rd world shithole in the next 20 years, I plan on parking a boat out there and retiring.

At least they have have decent medical care...try and get that here in the US in about 20 years.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

7. With laws like that, even if they look prosperous, they're not. Fuck them. -nt

[amdezurik]

9. as long as you're not gay I guess

[shireen]

27. funny you should say that

how 'bout, "as long as you're not dark-skinned," or "as long as you're not Muslim," or "as long as you're not Pakistani."

I feel very nervous about my male relatives visiting this country. Why? Because they may have a name similar to some person on a terrorist list. They may look threatening simply because they're dark-skinned, because they're from a Muslim country. They may get thrown into Guantanamo, without right to counsel for years. It's happened to others.

Look at what the US government has done to prisoners in Guantanamo, particularly those who are simply guilty of being Arabic or Pakistani or Muslim or because someone claimed them as Al Qaeda without evidence, or they were at the wrong place at the wrong time, or had a name similar to a known terrorist. What about the people who were rounded up right after 9/11, innocent people taken into custody without just cause because they were Pakistani or Arab?

What the US government did to some Arabs and Pakistanis is wrong. What the Malaysian government has done to those gay men is wrong.
But I don't hate the US because of it. I don't hate Malaysia because of it.

The venom spewed by some people on this thread makes me ill.

[plaintiff]

13. No medical care for faggots though. Right?

It's worse than a cesspool...it's a lower circle of hell.
:grr: :puke: :mad:

[Cerridwen]

14. I'm not sure where to begin with a statement like yours.

Those arrested were booked and released on bail after being given court dates. They are charged with gross indecency and if convicted would be subject to floggings and up to 20 years in prison.

Those charged are between the ages of 20 and 50, police said.

Last year, police in the capital Kuala Lumpur charged 37 men with gross indecency after a raid on what was described as a gay sex club. They were sentenced to be lashed and then freed.

Malaysia’s anti-sodomy law dates back to British colonial times. The country’s Muslim majority has steadfastly refused to repeal the law. (emphasis added)

Your statement reminds me of after-interviews with friends and family and neighbors of a serial killer saying "He's been a fine upstanding member of this community." Or, "He's an elder in the church. This can't possibly be true."

What, exactly, is your deal breaker? As long as it doesn't happen to you? As long as you can "pass" and not get busted? As long as it those "other" people to whom it happens then you can say, "Malaysia is actually pretty nice."

Where do you draw the line?

[Toasterlad]

17. That Decent Medical Care Must Come In Handy After a Good Flogging.

Or, wait...do you have to do your 20 years in prison for being gay before you get treated for being flogged for being gay?

[RedCappedBandit]

25. Dismissive much?

[ccharles000]

8. I agree

[sharesunited]

2. Much too much influence of religion on the civil law there.

And it has an "official" religion: Islam.

Not good. Renounce. Condemn.

[TWiley]

4. Were they about to blow something?

bad taste I know, butt I could not resist. I am not the slightest homophobic btw, I just thought it was funny.

[Toasterlad]

18. In What Universe Is That Funny?

Seriously, I'm totally down with the bad taste humor. Ask anyone. But I'm honestly mystified as to how your comment is funny.

[marmar]

5. "they found men engaged in sex"

Oh, the horror! .......

Malaysia sounds like a frightening place. Not that the American Taliban probably wouldn't like to raid gay bars in Amurka and black bag all the clients.

[awoke_in_2003]

20. Give 'em time...

as religion gets a stronger and stronger grip on our government, it is only a matter of time.

[mitchtv]

29. I am old enough to remember when

Our bars were routinely raided. (Usually when a DA was up for reelection) Cops would clear the sidewalks with a nightsick.God love the Mafia for keeping the NY bars open during the reign of terror.

[DemoTex]

6. " .. booked and released on bail after being given court dates .. " (GTFO! NOW!)

My advice to the Americans: GET THE FUCK OUT OF MALAYSIA BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE! Remember Michael Fay's caning in Singapore (just across the Straits of Jahore from Malaysia) for tagging a Honda Accord. Get the fuck out .. you are not in Kansas anymore. And never go back!

[plaintiff]

15. Exactly...and I find it incredible there are DUers defending these fucking sorry excuses

for countries.
:grr:

[shireen]

24. would you defend the United States

with all her flaws?

Or is the US just another one of those "fucking sorry excuses for countries"?

[shireen]

10. ... otherwise, Malaysia is a great country.

I was born and raised in Malaysia. It's a beautiful country and there's a lot of good to be found there. So please don't condemn her on the basis of this one news report.

Personally speaking, what happened in Malaysia to those men is outrageous. I wish they could have been left alone; what consenting adults do in private is no one else's business.

My first reaction was how the hell did they get caught?! Malaysia is a secular Muslim country, and is generally socially conservative. I don't expect to see any form of tolerance for gays during my lifetime. Sadly, at least for a couple more generations, gay communities in Malaysia will have to exist in secret. If there is anyone who deserves to be flogged, it's the low-life evil snitch who betrayed those men.

[Bluenorthwest]

11. Oh please.

One news report? Fine. I condemn the vile policies on the basis of 70 human beings being treated as objects, being discriminated against by a police force empowered by a population of dogmatic bigots, in a culture where all of the men fuck each other anyway. How's that?

[shireen]

30. Wow! That's just vile!

For starters, I was referring to the one news report by the OP. I have no reason to doubt that news report. I have no doubt that there are other horrors about the treatment of gays that are sickening and intolerable.

But how dare you call my mother a dogmatic bigot. Or my brother a dogmatic bigot. Or any other member of my family and friends dogmatic bigots? You don't know them. Whatever their feelings about homosexuality, they would NEVER condone that kind of treatment towards gays. And if you assume that they are empowering the actions of the police, you clearly don't know a thing about the politics of that country. And I have a feeling that trying to explain it to you would be a waste of time; you've already decided to condemn the entire population because of the actions of the government.

[Bluenorthwest]

33. I condemed the policy and the passivity that allows it to continue

No, I do not condemn the people for the actions of the government, but I also do not do what you are doing, acting as if the government is not comprised of a portion of the people. I'm not George Bush, but I am certainly aware of the aspects of my culture that allow such a bad President to do so much damage. Hypocrites are hypocrites the world over.
You use the word 'intolerable' about the treatment of GLBT people there, but my point is it is in fact tolerated. And aspects of the culture allow that, just as aspects of my culture allow the injustices that this government has done and does.
Plus the sexual hypocrisy of homophobes in both cultures really anger me. It is the core problem in both Christian and Islamic cultures worldwide. Both religions came from the same roots after all, so it is no suprise.
Policy is what I condemed. Where that policy finds life is what we need to talk about, how those policies harm your people, the bulk of the arrested are your people and mine. Hmmmm....they are our people. It is the arrested that I feel for here, not those who stand by or those who do the arresting. It is very telling that you see the arrested as not your countrymen. For when I stand up for them, you claim it is an attack on your Mother. Are not the arrested also of your culture, part and parcel? Of course they are, but not so much in your mind. I came here to defend your people and get this? Are they not in your jails, were they not born and raised in your country? Look and learn, for I am standing with your people, people who are apparently condemned by your government to flogging (!) and prison. Clearly I know that both the imprisoned and those who hold them are of the same culture, the question is, do you? They did not arrest themselves, and the arrests were not made by Danish troops, yuou know.
If I stand with my brothers there, why do you see it as standing against your nation, if those my brothers are part of your nation?

[shireen]

34. you don't get it ...

Many of those who were unjustly arrested are Malaysians, and even tho' I am no longer a citizen of that country, I care very much about what happens to them. And I am concerned about my fellow American citizens who were caught up in the situation. DO NOT question my anger over what happened to them.

I reacted so strongly because your original posts, and those of others, condemned the entire country over the actions of some homophobic law enforcement idiots. My family is a part of that country. Whatever their feelings about homosexuality, they do not condone those ridiculously harsh punishments and do not deserve to be lumped in the same category of those ugly homophobes. You also make a lot of unfounded assumptions about how much influence the citizens of that country have over their government.

Now, you say, "Policy is what I condemned." If you had bothered to make that distinction in your earlier posts, I would have agreed with you: the policy should be condemned. As for the rest of your post, I can't figure out what you're trying to say ...

Homophobia is despicable. It is evil. It IS intolerable. But Malaysian politics is complex, and she is a flawed democracy; therefore, the smartest way to affect change there -- to NOT tolerate such horrible civil rights injustices -- is to do it quietly and patiently within their legal and governmental system.

I am too exhausted to discuss this any further. If you and others cannot understand what I'm trying to say, I'm never going to get through to you.

[Toasterlad]

35. Actually, YOU'RE the One Who Doesn't Get It

A thread about a horrible atrocity committed by the government of a country is not the appropriate place to talk about what a swell country it is. Instead of trying to wave away the horrible, horrible things that happen in your home country by saying it's really not all that bad, here's what you should have said:

"It's things like this that make me ashamed to be from Malaysia. The government there is monstrous. I still have family there, and I worry every night for their safety in a country that indulges in such barbaric practices. I certainly hope the people of Malaysia stop putting up with such horrible, horrible atrocities and install a new government that won't flog and imprison people with a healthy taste for dick."

These are the kind of things I say about America when I hear about how gays and other minorities are mistreated. I don't immediately apply for a job on the tourism board, like you've been doing for your horribly barbaric country.

[shireen]

36. oh i give up ...

on you.

you're defining a country by one of its stupid policies. Nothing else matters. The world is black or white. Good or evil. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with your boolean logic.

[Cerridwen]

16. How about one report with 2 instances listed?

Last year, police in the capital Kuala Lumpur charged 37 men with gross indecency after a raid on what was described as a gay sex club. They were sentenced to be lashed and then freed. (emphasis added)

That's looking awful close to being a pattern.

Oh, and see my post #14 above. What is your deal-breaker?

edit to add my post number 14 from above.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

19. Hm. As a computer programmer...

...I recognize CODE when I see it.

[shireen]

22. what code? nt

[RedCappedBandit]

26. "please don't condemn her on the basis of this one news report"

LOL!!!!!!!
Yeah, okay, sure! Since you said so?
No, wait, fuck Malaysia, and fuck everybody who supports or enables their government's bigotry.

[shireen]

28. would you include the United States in your "fuck you" list? nt

[RedCappedBandit]

31. Yes?

It is not exempt.

Although, I have to say, my last post was more the result of rage and disgust than any sort of coherent thought processes.

[shireen]

32. i understand ... nt

[Name removed]

12. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shireen]

21. DIRECT YOUR RAGE AT THE MALAYSIAN GOVERNMENT, NOT THE COUNTRY!

Why the hell are some of you equating the Malaysian government with Malaysia the country?

How would you feel if the United States was totally defined by the horrific policies of the Bush administration?

I hate that gays are being discriminated in such a horrible way in Malaysia, it sickens me.

BUT DO NOT CALL MALAYSIA A CESSPOOL BASED ON THE POLICIES OF THE IDIOTS IN HER GOVERNMENT!

I grew up there, I know the country well, and there is so much more good about her than bad. That's just a fact. Like all other countries, she is a work in progress. To condemn an entire country because of the reprehensible policy of her government towards gays is unfair.

You have every right to be mad about what happened to those men. I'm furious about it. But for god's sake, please try to make the distinction between a country and a government.

[JonySky]

23. Not so strange

I'm originally from the mountains of Eastern Ky, where most of
my family still lives. If we put in a Palin type government I
know lots of Pentecostals who would stand in the rain for the
opportunity to administer those floggings. I think any
government run by any fundamental religious types would be
hell on earth for those not of their faith. The only issue
that counts in the "Hollers" is Pro Life. Nothing at
all matters more than that. It is sad. But true.