Michael Moore is really a shameless self-promoter

[question everything]

He was on Bill Maher last week and determined that the only way to vote is the way it is done in Parliamentary countries - write a name on a piece of paper.

Which works fine when one votes for a party with its leader who would then form a government and be the prime minister. But as I was laboring on the long two-sided ballot that included candidates for President, Senator, House members (both Federal and local) city council, county offices, judges and several ballot measures.... how, exactly is he thinking we should vote with a piece of paper on all of them?

Of course, he does not. He just enjoys appearing as a guest on a TV program and to say whatever comes from his mouth.

[Richardo]

1. You have truly learned the mystical secret of Michael Moore

Welcome to the plane of expanded consciousness. :smoke:

[Ellipsis]

8. Dude!!! hehe

:thumbsup:

[canetoad]

2. I don't know which parliamentary country he is talking about

It is not true that you write a name in. Hell, we are so civilized we have learned how to use check boxes.

[amdezurik]

22. since he did not say that it seems...

do you have a point?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. LOL

He says things?! On television?!

The bastard!

:rofl:

[WA98296]

4. What he meant was that ALL ballots need to be paper, with a auditible trail, NOT electronic.

And I completely agree with him.

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. Ditto

[question everything]

17. No, he was echoing what was posted here about Canada

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=7632156

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

18. Tsk tsk tsk.

What a jerk!

[LanternWaste]

33. I suppose everyone will interpret

I suppose everyone will interpret what he "really meant" to better suit our opinions of him...

[TahitiNut]

21. It's not suffiicient that it be "auditable" ... it must be "AUDITED."

While I'm in favor of optical scan, I absolutely insist that the ballots be sampled in an audit and that the sample is expanded up to a COMPLETE manual recount if the sample count doesn't match the electronic tally with 98% confidence.

In some jurisdictions, there's no provision for a manual recount let alone an audit. That's completely unacceptable.

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. I vote on paper for everything

[groovedaddy]

6. How is marking a card for an optical scan machine any different

than writing on a piece of paper?

[Goblinmonger]

15. It's not

there is still a paper trail. And as I understand Moore's stance, that is what he wants, not a digital wasteland where nothing can be replicated.

[Chemical Bill]

34. Because...

the computer that tabulates the various optical scan data is where the election fraud was committed in 2004.

Bill

[tridim]

9. IMO ballots in Presidential elections should have only President and Congress on it

No amendments and ballot initiatives. It would certainly work then.

Moore is an American patriot and about as far from a shameless self-promoter as is possible. WTF?

[LeftyMom]

38. Then we'd waste more money and have even lower turnout on down-ballot races.

:shrug:

[Burma Jones]

10. Well, Yeah, this IS the USA, land of Shameless Self-Promoters

It's the only way to get a word in edgewise

[boozepusher]

12. That is the American way.

:)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. We all know that Michael Moore is a shameless pencil and wood pulp tycoon.

Clearly he's just after money with his paper ballots scheme, the bastard..

[EFerrari]

11. That's good because I like to watch him as a guest on TV

and listen to whatever come out of his mouth. It works out perfectly! lol

[sinkingfeeling]

13. I would like to see two ballots in Nov. One would have only federal candidates. The other would be

for state, city, and county issues.

[burythehatchet]

14. I bet no one ever called you the sharpest knife in the drawer

[Caliman73]

19. While I agree that he is definitely a self promoter

I also agree that he has the voting idea exactly right. He was not talking about emulating the procedures for parliamentary elections. He was talking about using paper and pencil which is tangible instead of electronic methods. He was saying that we should have one method of voting. He was saying that like almost every other western industrial nation, we should vote on a weekend or make election day a national holiday. Just because he can be a grandiose weenie, doesn't mean he can't make good points.

[question everything]

23. That last point I certainly agreed

to have election day a national holiday.

And the ballot has to be clear, even if it would take four pages, Remember the Florida butterfly ballot, when one was aiming at Gore but punching Buchanan?

I like the ideas mentioned here, to have separate ballots for federal offices and for local ones.

[Stinky The Clown]

20. This surprises you ...... why?

[defendandprotect]

24. This bit of anamosity for MM is as ignorant as that expressed for Nader ....

Wake up someday ---

[Suspicious]

26. Thank you...

I'm sitting here wondering what Moore did to piss people off (just watched "Sicko" with my teen daughters the other day - they were riveted the entire time) - did he say something negative about a Democrat? Did he say something positive about Nader or another third party candidate? That seems to be all it takes for some here. :eyes:

[defendandprotect]

31. MM supported Nader in 2000 --

and paid a big price for that -- regrets it and still apologizing for it --

HOWEVER, Nader and those supporting him were scapegoated ...

Gore won by all counts -- including Florida --

More than 300,000 Democrats in Florida voted for Bush --

More than 3,000+ "butterfly" votes went to Buchanan ...

6,000+ votes went to Socislists/Libertarians, etc --

More than 600 "illegal" military ballots were counted for Bush --

We had a fascist GOP rally -- uninteferred with by Florida police -- which successfully
stopped the Miami-Dade recount demanded by the Florida State Supreme Court --

AND, of course, the fascist decision by the Gang of 5 on the Supreme Court for Bush --!!!


And yet these idiots conclude that a man who has fought for consumers --
from cars to elections -- and who has done more to keep Americans politically
informed and aware of corporate fascism in America should be be scapegoated for it.

WHY...? Because this is what the Dems told voters --
Dems who didn't do much but immediately concede --
and who refused to register official protest in USHR --

[Chemical Bill]

35. Thanks dap, I agree. n/t

[Suspicious]

37. I totally agree that Nader was scapegoated.

The 2000 election was STOLEN, plain and simple, by the very people Nader stands against. While I might not vote for him, I do have a great deal of respect for him and his decision (and right) to run.

I always have to wonder when people claiming to be progressives become venomous with regard to any third party candidate who DARES to throw their hat in the ring - or anyone who openly supports a third party candidate. It's backward behavior...it makes zero sense in a Democracy.

[question everything]

42. Must be nice to believe in this

After it was all over the consortium of newspapers found that Bush had about 300 more votes than Gore. There were several threads on DU during the years.

Of course, there were the problems of people who were on the "do not vote" list, of long lines at machines at poor neighborhoods, and, I think, with overseas or absentee ballots.

But of the ballots cast and counted, Bush did win.

And, in several states, including Florida, the votes for Nader were more than the difference between Gore and Bush. I think Oregon and Wisconsin. Would these votes have gone to Gore? I have no idea. But Nader was a spoiler. And perhaps we should not complain since were it not for Perot in 1992 Bill Clinton may not have won.

[defendandprotect]

48. You're wrong -- Press reported Gore won no matter how the votes were counted --

Bush lost -- Including in Florida.

and of course the necessity of the intercession by the GOP Supremes and

the GOP fascist rally to stop the Miami-Dade recount

also strongly suggest that the figures were about to collapse to honesty --

we were down to a 34 vote difference WITHOUT ALL counties being recounted because

Gore did not ask for ALL --

And something like 128,00 votes in Florida were never counted at all.


I think you're also using some euphemisms for "GOP purges" and "GOP interference with/

intimidation of Dem voters" and "illegal military ballots" -- but your desire not to know

unpleasant facts doesn't change those facts.


Again, it works well for those who fear and want to suppress Nader when the non-thinkers

embrace the scapegoating myth --

[anigbrowl]

25. We don't write a name in parliamentary countries - what's he thinking?

Election counts would dissolve into arguments over handwriting. Every other country I've lived in (4 european countries) people tick a box.

[tsuki]

27. I watched Slacker Uprising, and I think he is great. nt

[defendandprotect]

28. Many people have said same thing -- how does that suggest "self-promotion"...???

Meanwhile, think you're describing yourself here ...

Of course, he does not. He just enjoys appearing as a guest on a TV program and to say whatever comes from his mouth.

We are voting for free-wheeling personalities rather than for candidates held to party platforms
and principles/ideals --

Think about it --

[defendandprotect]

29. And, btw, what is Michael Moore "promoting" that you object to-- ??? National Health care-???

Reading legislation before voting on it -- ??

Ending wars of aggression -- ??

Regulation of corporations/capitalism and consumer protections -- ???

[earth mom]

30. Wrong. Moore is a national hero. He's done more to wake this country up then most politicians

including Obama, Hillary and all the rest of em in Congress who refused to Impeach * & Co.

Posts like this reek of freeperville. :puke:

[defendandprotect]

32. Thank you -- Nader is more of threat to GOP than Dems are .. !!!

:) :) :)

[charlie]

36. Skooch over

I'll join the both of you. Got a spare helmet and raincoat? :)

[gatorboy]

39. That's not what he said.

He said that we should use a paper ballot and a pencil. He never said anything about literally having to write every freakin' name in by hand.

But seriously, we're on the verge of a major victory and you're worried about Michael Moore?

[charlie]

41. It's right here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjhaxnvJlw4

About 6:20 in. In plain English - "They put a big X in the box..."

The OP is bullshit.

[earth mom]

47. Yep I am, because Moore's the freepers favorite target.

:puke:

[Pastiche423]

40. When no one else could...

Michael Moore convinced me to vote for Obama. I came w/i three days of voting 3rd party, when I clicked on a Larry King interview w/MM.

Paraphrasing his words..."There are many Obama votes that I highly disagree w/(my reason for not voting for him), but after the last eight years, we MUST vote Obama in".

Michael Moore has done faaaarrr more good for our country. He has been relentless these past horrible eight years defending US!

But you want to grab onto something silly and smear his name. Shame, shane on you!

[fascisthunter]

43. He's Done More for this Country Than You EVER Will

[ColbertWatcher]

44. And, he's the only one in Hollywood who could be accused of being that way! n/t

[Gonzo Gardener]

45. You're dead fucking wrong. n/t

[Zhade]

46. That's the stupidest fucking thing you've ever said!

Today.

[Individualist]

49. Damn the DLC!