The only silver lining about Prop 8

[tired_old_fireman]

People 65 and older voted 59% yes to 41% no
People 29 and under voted 37% yes to 63% no

Thankfully, these older people who oppose civil rights are going to start dying off. There will be more younger, much more tolerant people coming of voting age.

It still doesn't change what happened yesterday. I can't even enjoy the Obama win. It's a real bitter pill that African Americans voted so heavily in favor of prop 8. If there wasn't such a high African American turnout yesterday, the Prop probably wouldn't have passed.

[ananda]

1. Young people are so wonderful!

I'm young at heart.

[Fovea]

2. We will change this.

It was the last gasp of Rovian republicanism, and all that implies.

I do believe that we shall overcome.

[tired_old_fireman]

8. I hope you're right.

[gollygee]

3. Yes, change is inevitable at this point

It won't be too long and same-sex marriage will be legal at least just about everywhere. There's no holding it back anymore.

[JI7]

4. they wont be able to pass this in 5 years

maybe even in 2-3 years.

[Le Taz Hot]

5. Any stats on the boomers because those stats

don't include them. It took YEARS and YEARS of people laying down their lives -- white, black, Hispanic, Asian -- for Obama to be able to take the White House. It's sad that you guys are already forgetting this.

[Gormy Cuss]

37. Boomers (cohort age 50-64) were split 51/49

And that was better than the age 40-49 cohort (59% in favor) and about the same as the age 30-39 cohort (52% in favor.) I can't understand why the 40-49 year-olds polled this way -- perhaps there are more of them who bought the "protect our children" argument because of the average age of their kids, or perhaps it's just a fluke.

[ColbertWatcher]

6. The passage of Prop Hate has opened a can of worms.

CA will now have to deal with all the marriages they have retroactively criminalized and future discrimination of people applying for marriage licenses.

If they say everyone who has married are fine, but no one else can marry; that's discriminating against the people who want to have that same right. But, they can't tell those people who are already married to give up that right.

The people who voted for Prop Hate didn't think their plan through.

[Le Taz Hot]

10. The marriages are still legal

as rights cannot be taken away after given. Besides, we just need one old right-wing codger to leave the Supremes and we have a 5-4 in our favor to overturn this piece of shit.

[ColbertWatcher]

11. "rights cannot be taken away after given"

But, now anyone else wanting to get married will be denied those rights!

Haters are so stupid.

Prop Hate will be found unconstitutional.

Watch.

[gollygee]

12. I have several friends who flew out there to get married

Will they still be legally married then?

I hope you're right that it'll be found unconstitutional. Regardless, at this point it's just a matter of time. The tide has definitely turned on this issue.

[ColbertWatcher]

14. I'm embarrassed that CA allowed the fundies to do this. n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

15. Oh, I agree.

It's cold comfort. But the fight has just begun.

[Rockholm]

20. That was what could have happened in Massachusetts.

The unknown if a ballot item was passed. What would happen to those already married? Prop Hate will be ruled unconstitutional, based on the constitution.

[dysfunctional press]

18. all the old codgers on the supreme court are left-wing...

it'll probably be awhile before a right-wing seat is given up.

[Not Me]

7. Gay is officially the new Black in America

I don't know what comes next. I live in Florida, where a 60% threshold for constitutional amendments is in place. Those who sought to write discrimination into the constitution prevailed with 62%.
In order to overturn it, it will again require that fair minded voters at some point in the future will be able to muster 60%. That will be decades away thanks to the strange coalition of the Catholic and Mormon and Fundamentalist Christian churches. At least in FL, it is game over.

Interestingly, when the California courts ruled earlier this Spring, a move out west was the backup plan. That, coupled with an Obama win, and subsequent collapse of DOMA, would leave me with a place where I could live out my life with the dignity and benefits that come with equality. That plan is now broken.

I guess it's wait and see for a couple months. But it is not a day to celebrate for GLBTs who put so much into Obama's win, only to have fellow Dems run us under the bus. Again.

[KharmaTrain]

9. It'll Be Back...

The undeniable truth is Gay Marriage or Civil Unions are fait accompli. You can't legislate it away or stop a change in the way most Americans view both LGBT people as well as the concept of marriage in general. I sure hope this iniative comes back in 2 years and the this time with a greater attention. I think the facts there weren't any other major downticket races and Obama had long since locked up the state that many people decided to stay home that would have voted against this proposition.

[Frances]

13. My husband and I are over 65 and we voted no on 8

[2Design]

16. over 60 and voted no in florida against discrimination - not all old people

are hatefilled - who voted for this in florida, arizona, arkansas, and california - I am not happy at all about the arkansas one about not being able to adopt - that is really hatefilled - how many of these suppose families abuse children or have affairs - they are so hypocritical and just disgust with their discrimination

[tired_old_fireman]

36. I didn't mean to imply all older people...

and I include myself in that category. I'm just trying to say, the younger generations seem much more tolerant. That gives me hope for the future.

Sorry for the cold way I worded things. I wish I could delete the post or edit it because I didn't mean it quite that way.

[Liberalatus]

17. Don't fret too much

This will all end up in Supreme Court eventually. I hope very soon. It is inevitable. And there justice will be served.

It does make me incredibly sad, though, that we still have enough ignorant bigots still in this country who have no idea what America stands for, all the while draping themselves in the flag and self-professed patriotism.

There are so many things I hear down in the South from these idiots, and I am convinced that bigotry cannot be cured. Most people start quoting "facts", and when I correct them, and correct them with the real information, tell them why it is a civil rights issue, tell them why it should not be a religious issue (of course where I live, most people think Separation of Church and State is un-American, and invented by Liberals). I explain to them exactly how it is in no way "immoral, wrong, and does not impose any danger on anyone, and does not violate anyone else's rights" and therefor there is no basis to make it illegal. After all this, I can see they have no leg left to stand on, and I can see it in their eyes as they shake their heads and mumble something to the affect of "Well, I just don't think it's natural..." or "Well, marriage should be between a man and a woman", and I know they are just bigots. That's all. Closed-minded idiots who should not be allowed to live in the Land of the Free, because they do not believe in its principles, and in fact, hate American ideals.

Wow, sorry. Just got worked up. As I was saying, I hope Obama finishes this fight (and the abortion one) once and for all.

By the way, I am a Christian. And although I'm not sure what to think about this difficult issue, concerning "sin" or whatever, I am an AMERICAN. And it really doesn't matter what the Bible says about it. This is the Land of the Free, and it is because of that that I am able to be a Christian without persecution, so I should be thankful, and respect the ideals this country was founded upon, and not try to turn this into a "Christian nation".

[MountainLaurel]

19. Eventually

Eventually doesn't help the families who need equality now, who can be denied a final visit with their spouse, whose foreign partner can't immigrate, whose children can be taken away.

This decision hurts us all, whenever civil rights are denied.

[Liberalatus]

24. I agree

but eventually is better than not at all. Even if same-sex marriage passes, the GOP would be finding another way to phrase another law to prevent homosexuals from having the benefits. Look at abortion. That was settled years ago, and yet, they are constantly crusading to have it abolished.

[otherlander]

21. The old road is rapidly aging.

:D

[slackmaster]

22. It's always so uplifting to see someone on a DU forum rejoicing in the deaths of others

:crazy:

[tired_old_fireman]

23. Give me a break

[slackmaster]

25. You are not worthy of a break

:nuke:

[tired_old_fireman]

35. I'm sorry my point came across the wrong way.

I'm including myself in the generation that is dying off. My point is the bigotry has not been passed down to the younger generations and that is a good thing. I'm not cheering people dying. I'm cheering that the younger voters are more tolerant.

I may have worded things wrong. I'm sorry for that.

[slackmaster]

38. Sometimes younger generations do revive outdated ideas

Like Biblical literalism and electing Republican Presidents.

I'm 50 BTW, and voted a strong No on 8.

[tired_old_fireman]

39. Good point.

[Eryemil]

27. Progress is not made by the changing of minds but the fact old ideas die with their masters

Most of the time. Death is a GOOD thing.

[EFerrari]

29. I'll be sure to tell that to my 75 yr old mom who voted against hate.

[slackmaster]

33. When I was 10 years old, I figured that the few people who rejected evolution would just die off

And that would be the end of Biblical literalism.

That was what I thought in 1968.

In 1974, after Richard M. Nixon resigned as President, my then-Republican mom told me we wouldn't see another Republican elected to the Presidency for a whole generation.

Ronald Reagan was elected six years later.

[Eryemil]

40. It was a generalization...

But generally things HAVE changed. Just because they might still call themselves republicans does not mean they believe the same thing. And we have a growing atheist minority now, with its own voice. (19yo, Hispanic out gay atheist here)

[pink-o]

26. The news on Green960 SF radio just announced all the votes re H8 haven't been counted

But it also mentioned that SF City Atty Dennis Hererra has a legal challenge already prepared should the propositon pass.

I really don't think it'll ever be implemented. It takes more than a ballot proposition to get a constitutional amendment. Especially one that takes rights away.

See my thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4384573&mesg_id=4384573

[Liberal_in_LA]

28. kick

[Cleita]

30. This old lady voted against it but I'm sorry it passed.

I hope somehow down the line that the California Supreme Court will rule it as bigotry and unconstitutional.

[Iggo]

31. It hurts me every day to know that...

...so very many minorities are against civil rights. And I'm not laying this all on black folks. I'm talking about my folks...the people whose names end in vowels and Z's. It's a goddam shame is what it is.

And yeah, there's no joy for me today, either.

[slackmaster]

34. I blame the churches for perpetuating ignorance

Especially the Catholics and Mormons.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Brewman_Jax]

41. That "high" black voter turnout

is about 3% of the voter population, and I'm sure that not everyone voted for prop 8. So, why are black people the ones to blame for this?

[ContinentalOp]

42. According to CNN exit polls, black voters were 10% of the total.

Let's assume about 970,000 black voters, 1,746,000 Latino voters and 6,111,000 white voters.

3,116,610 whites, 925,380 Latinos, and 679,000 African Americans voted yes on 8 and it passed by only 478,169 votes (5,319,905 to 4,841,736).

If black and Latino voters had voted on 8 in the same percentages as white voters (49% for, 51% against), that would have been 890,460 Latino "yes" votes (a 34,920 difference), and 475,300 black "yes" votes (a 203,700 difference).

Flipping those 238,620 votes would have meant 5,081,285 yes votes and 5,080,356 no votes and 8 would have passed by a shockingly slim 929 vote margin!

So while white voters obviously voted "yes" on 8 in far greater numbers than black and Latino voters, it's hard to deny that the rate of support for 8 among those groups helped push 8 over the top.

[Brewman_Jax]

43. No need to assume anything

Just crunched the numbers based on exit poll data. All in favor of prop 8:

White 1,643,559; Black 372,690; Hispanic 507,992; Asian 156,529; Other 81,459

Higher ratio doesn't offset higher population count. A few more white "yes" this wouldn't have been a contest. Your chagrin is misplaced.