I hate that they've ruined this morning for me

[WhollyHeretic]

This should be a purely joyful morning. I still do have joy for the things that have happened, but it's not like it should be. Obama being elected is an amazing and stunning advancement for civil rights. We finally have Bush and co. out of office. At the same time we make this tremendous stride in civil rights we strip civil rights away from others. Every piece of shit bigoted ballot passed last night.

Fuck you pieces of garbage who took my joy of this morning away and pushed our country backward as we are leaping forward.

[YOY]

1. What happened?

You mean Prop 8? Yeah...that pisses me off too!

[WhollyHeretic]

3. There was also the Arkansas ban on gay couples adopting children.

There were also gay marriage bans in Arizona and Florida.

[YOY]

4. It's not up to the people to decide anyways.

It's up to the courts.

[WhollyHeretic]

5. They went around the courts in California and put it into the state constitution.

Edit. maybe it can be overturned by courts. I've got to look into that now.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Why do you think this will go to the USSC?

And actually it can go to the state courts

Once it WAS ilegal for latinos to marry anglos in the state... it was in the consutiton, it went to court

Yes, forty years ago I could not have married my hubby.

And I am amazed that those same minorities that fought to have certain things happened voted for this crap in the name of family.

Sorry if at this point I am very angry with hispanic and black voters in this state

[Kajsa]

23. Again Nadin, I agree with you!

I seem to be doing a lot of that. :)

Why did the very people who were so brutally discriminated against
and treated like second class citizens vote to

DO THE SAME THING to another group of people?

I JUST DON'T GET IT!!

:(

[Jed Dilligan]

45. But look at the votes by age

As old people die and young people come of age the bigotry will dissipate.

[donheld]

21. Study Colorado's "Amendment 2"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romer_v._Evans

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. One of these days one of these will end before the USSC

and we will have sometihng like Brown vs Board, or Roe v Wade, mark my words on that

And when that happens and these laws become ilegal across the nation... it will become a wedge issue

Like oh abortion

But that day is comming.

And when it does... it SHOULD go the right way given the previous rulings even by the present court.

Something about equal protection under the law

What amazes me though is that people who SHOULD know better, voted against civil rights.

Then again, Muricans don't know history, don't remember history, and don't care bout history

[sakabatou]

8. I thought those things lost...

:(

[Name removed]

2. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[elocs]

9. It's too bad that you allowed your joy to be taken from you. That was your choice.

You may tell me to "fuck off" too, but I believe what I said is true. I have disagreed many, many times with what people here have said, but I have never, ever told anyone to "fuck off". Not impressive.

[WhollyHeretic]

14. I'm so sorry you aren't impressed.

Your approval means so much to me.

[elocs]

15. "Ignore" You're not worth another second of my time. What a sad individual you are. n/t

[cboy4]

24. Listen to the PATHETIC individual tell someone else they're

sad. :puke:

[Occulus]

16. Go tell it to the people whose marriages were just annulled by their home state

By the way: fuck you and the "church" with which you align.

That would be the mormans.

[Occulus]

27. Allowed? WTF is this "allowed" shit?

These pieces of human offal- mostly, mormans- reached into the private lives of thousands of people and quite literally ripped those lives apart. There is no "allowed" involved. This was an emotional and very personal rape by ballot initiative.

They deserve a very hearty and juicy "fuck you", and so does everyone who agrees with them.

There are many DUers in that "fuck you" category.

Don't be one of them.

[Le Taz Hot]

33. If ANY group of Americans are discriminated against

we are all victims.

So, can we count on your help withg the NEW Civil Rights movement? I won't be holding my breath.

[TheWatcher]

46. I'll happily tell you.

As for you not being impressed, I know I'm not the only one who will sarcastically staple my hand to my forehead in faux despair of how much sleep I will lose over it. Your opinion is about as relevant as the movie "Showgirls."

Last night was one of the most historic, important victories this country has ever witnessed.

But it was also a stinging reminder of how much further we have to go.

But hey, you just get back to feeling good and chirping out your apologist platitudes we have all grown used to. :hi:

It's nice to know that even when history is made, and great change takes place, there are always things we can depend on to stay staunchly the same and familiar. Namely Bigotry and your annoying banter.

::Cue Bob Seger's "Still The Same"::

[cliffordu]

10. It is so completely wrong.....

The hatred and fear in this country is disgusting. I am sorry.

Because Prop 8 is the first law that actually TAKES AWAY a previously held right, and that it does nothing to address the people already married, isn't it unconstitutional because it doesn't provide equal protection under the law?

It would seem to me (IANL) that this will nullify the law immediately - like at the first court case filed.


Right??

Then we can work on getting the fucking LDS out of the political process.....tax the shit out of them for getting involved...Churches aren't supposed to do that.

[youthere]

11. I cannot believe I live in a country ...

where the people voted to REMOVE existing rights from some of its citizens.

[WhollyHeretic]

13. That's the one that really gets to me. These couples who were together for years and years

were finally able to marry and now it has been stripped from them.

[gratuitous]

12. There's still work to be done

Yeah, Oregon passed an odious constitutional amendment a few years ago, too. But nothing's forever, and even the pyramids will be dust one day. The margin of "victory" for the forces of hatred in California was razor thin; what would the percentages have been on this proposition 20 years ago? Even five years ago? The sun is setting on this brand of bigotry, though not nearly fast enough.

As Mother Jones said, "Don't mourn; organize!" The U.S. Constitution has been amended and had amendments repealed before. There's no reason for the amendments to the California and Oregon constitutions to remain in place forever, either. We're a lot higher on the mountain slope, and that much closer to the mountain top today than we have ever been. But there is still some climbing to do as the prejudices of a former generation die off and a society that values all its members replaces it little by little.

Let your joy be tempered, but not extinguished. We're not fighting against bigots and pieces of garbage; we're fighting against fear and ignorance. The tools we need are confidence and knowledge. And we shall prevail.

[ogneopasno]

17. Eight years ago, 61 percent of Californians defined marriage as only between a man and a woman.

Prop 8 passed by what, 52 percent? So that's almost a 10-point drop in 8 years. There is a little bit of light. It's going to take hard, hard work. But the foundation is there.

[TWiley]

18. Fundi-Church people got their asses handed to them in Michigan

Embryo stem cell research passed big in spite of all the right-to-life stuff.

[Left Brain]

19. GreenJ -

We SHALL overcome.
We will keep fighting, keep educating.
It will be a long-fought battle, I have no doubt.

But just as with the victory last night, we SHALL overcome.
Deep in my heart, I do believe...


:pals:

Keep the faith; I share your grief, but the battle is not over.

[Kajsa]

20. I hear ya, GreenJ!

We fought hard to defeat Prop. h8, but it doesn't
look good.

These people who voted 'Yes on 8' are sick, sick, sick!

:(

[Liberalatus]

31. They are either

Ignorant of the facts, no thanks to tons of misinformation from the GOP of how "harmful" gay marriage is to civilization. Trust me, I was indoctrinated with it growing up. So, these people probably mean well, as they are trying to do what's best for the country, but just don't have the right facts.

The other group are just bigots. This includes the religious, also. Sorry, but this is America. Our Bible (or Torah, or Quran, etc) does not dictate our laws. This is the same mentality of people who used to see a black person and white person married, and were afraid of what society was coming to. They would shield their children's eyes from the happy couple, and shake their heads in disgust. Just baseless hate. No rhyme or reason to it. They cannot justify it beyond, "It just isn't natural (code for 'right')" Why not? Give me one reason why its not. You can't. You just don't like it because its different than you, or your religion says its wrong. And by the way, why DOES your religion say its wrong? No, "It's wrong because my Bible says so" is not an answer. Why does your Bible say so?

There are 2 steps to defeating this. Number one is get out the facts. For every lie they have, correct it. There aren't that many. We need to educate the public, somehow. Most people hear "gay", or "homosexual", and they immediately shut it out. Soon as we get all the facts out there refuting all their nonsense, then comes phase two. You cannot defeat bigotry. It will always exist. But, you can suppress it. And shame it into hiding like the KKK. We need to turn the hate on them. We need to show the public how ANTI-AMERICAN they are. Show the public how they want to USE GOVERNMENT TO CONTROL EVERYONE ELSE, and TAKE AWAY THEIR FREEDOMS. Tell the public its not about gay marriage. Tell them its about a small group of religious zealots trying to tell them how they should live. Next will be no drinking. No smoking. No partying. No unmarried sex. Only 2 kids allowed per family. And everyone will have to go to church every Sunday. Whatever ridiculous claim you can think of will work. And then you ask them, You know who else has rules like that? "insert popular enemy of the hour, Communists, Iran, The Terrorists, Russia, North Korea, or the great fallback, The Nazis" Get everyone in America to see that they are not Patriots and don't care about America or its ideals at all. They just want to control people. And they want the Government to intervene in their private lives. Demonize them to the fullest extent to where they cannot speak their hate without being shouted down, or thrown out. Send them into hiding with their hate and bigotry. Take back our country. Let's get to it!

[Kajsa]

44. Right you are!

I have ( since I was very young) and will continue
to fight discrimination against anyone!

This fight is FAR from over, even if h8 passes.

Turn this thing around and expose the homophobic
bigots for who they really are.

[LSK]

22. thats what I am feeling this morning

Still a lot of hate filled fucked up bigots in this country.

[Poseidan]

25. this is the work of the church

Now that the Religion party is out of power, permanently, we can begin fully separating church and state, and ensuring it is never again integrated.

[Occulus]

30. Mormanism is a cult. Not a church.

I will never, ever again give the morman cult "church" status. It does not go too far to say that I utterly hate their so-called "religion".

Hey, if they can put "family" in quotes when referring to my life, I can put "church" in quotes when referring to theirs. Tit for fucking TAT.

[hunter]

26. I think we are nearing the end of this...

This was a suicide attack by the knights of columbus, the rabid right wing Catholics, and the doddering Mormon hierarchy. They've lost their religious and charitable trappings and exposed themselves to everyone as nasty, bigoted, intolerant, and most of all DISHONEST political action groups.

There's plenty of room for these groups on the garbage scows to hell. Before they depart the world of political relevance they will begin to resemble more and more what they've become -- fading associations of dirty old perverts obsessed with the sex lives of others. They will be pushed out of the mainstream of politics just as the groups obsessed with race were pushed out.

Keep shining the light on them, and they will whither.

[LatteLibertine]

28. I'm sad to see this supported

Fundies are always stirring up crap and dehumanizing others so they can feel special about themselves. One can only hope their numbers continue to dwindle. Four years of an Obama presidency may help here.

[slackmaster]

29. You know how the song goes

You can't always get what you want.

[OwnedByFerrets]

32. That was unbelievably crass and unfeeling.

[slackmaster]

37. Life is crass and unfeeling sometimes

And when you get knocked off of your horse, the best thing you can do is get right back on and keep riding.

[Occulus]

34. Yeah, because staying married is just what some people "want"

What. The HELL.

[plaintiff]

36. That comment was WAY out of character for slack...not sure what to think of it.

:shrug:
(I don't write a lot here but I read a bunch)

[slackmaster]

38. If you try some time, you just might find,

You get what you need.

The battle on same-sex marriage is not over, plaintiff.

[plaintiff]

39. I just meant I was surprised to read what you posted there. As a long time gun owner

I've been pleasantly surprised to see you agree with me on constitutional and self-protection issues. I don't believe you're a homophobe and that's why I commented as I did. I suppose I could be wrong, though...:shrug:

[slackmaster]

40. I am absolutely not a homophobe, and lobbied many people to vote No on 8

This is a long, long fight that will ultimately have to be decided at the federal level. As an advocate of equality and liberty, and as one who is proud to have many gay and lesbian friends, I am very disappointed but not discouraged, but this setback is not a surprise to me. I have expressed my doubt that Proposition 8 could be defeated from the very beginning.

There is another thread that I will not respond in, that basically says gays are the new n*****s. As a gun owner and personal liberty advocate I have felt a bit n*****ized myself from time to time.

[plaintiff]

42. I have felt that myself...but basically only here on DU, oddly enough.

I think we took some umbrage at your comment because (I think you will admit) it did come off as just a little flip or dismissive. I'm taking you at your word and don't believe you meant it that way.
:D

[slackmaster]

43. I'll cop to flip but not to dismissive

The fight is not over. It has barely begun.

[plaintiff]

35. What about Alice's Restaurant?

:silly:

[emlev]

41. Prop 8 is too close to call -- millions of ballots not yet counted

See this thread in LBN.

[Greyhound]

47. Agreed. I was so freaking happy this morning and first it was this, followed

immediately by the Emmanuel announcement.

Fuck.

I guess we'll just have to keep moving toward emigration.

[lunatica]

48. Well if they can create an initiative why can't our side create one...

that makes gay marriage Constitutionally legal? We have two years before the next elections.

It's pretty much a given that no sooner do 'those' people (gays, minorities, etc.) gain some rights than the screaming drooling-fanged religious banshees get loosed on society. It's time to beat them at their own game, no?

Take it to the courts too. How can any court side with taking away human rights? I don't think they can, even if they're loaded with crazed fanatics.

If they want to keep fighting this then those of us who won't accept taking anyone's civil rights away must fight back. We really don't have a choice do we? Hell if we can get rid of the Bush mob during one of the darkest times in this country's history we can certainly demand civil rights.