Pelosi lectures Obama: 'You must govern from the middle!'

[Bluebear]

CNN) -- House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Wednesday called on President-elect Barack Obama to govern from the middle, as her party sat poised to gain its widest House majority in 15 years.

According to projections, Democrats in the House were on track Wednesday to increase their majority by at least 18 seats, a margin that would give Obama a formidable tool to push his legislative agenda after his January 20 inauguration.

Democrats took at least 22 seats from Republicans in Tuesday's election, with the GOP taking four seats from the Democrats, according to CNN projections.

With winners yet to be called for eight of the House's 435 seats, Democrats were projected to win 254 seats, with Republicans having 173.

"I don't know what the final number will be," Pelosi said during a Wednesday afternoon news conference on Capitol Hill. "But it will be well over 250. It's a signal of the change that the American people want."

Pelosi, D-California, said she hoped Obama would "bring people together to reach consensus" on issues that concern Americans. "A new president must govern from the middle," she said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/05/house.election/?iref=mpstoryview

[endarkenment]

1. Guess who's coming to dinner?

[Leopolds Ghost]

132. DUers, Obama agrees with Pelosi. The new Cabinet will be entirely DLC.

Rahm Emanuel tried to get Dean fired and was the architect of the "Center Right Nation" meme, recruiting rich social progressives (and a few rich right-wingers) to run AGAINST Iraq critics in purple districts. Mark Penn asserted on-air tonight that the professional class of $100 or $200 K and up are the "new base" of the Democratic party because (thanks to runaway inflation) their numbers have tripled since 1996. Larry Summers' deputy went on-air recently to break silence about how Summers was the architect of the Gramm Deregulation Act that (combined with elimination of welfare and public housing) ENDED the New Deal (a feat Reagan was never able to accomplish.) Summers and Rubin are especially despicable and will squash card check for unions. Young DUers who came to politics because of Obama may never fully realize who the people are that they will increasingly demand unquestioning loyalty to.

[The Backlash Cometh]

140. Well, then, I guess we have our work cut out for us.

Don't we?

[roguevalley]

149. she needs to shut the hell up, the skanky hag

[MrCoffee]

2. In a related story, MrCoffee called on Speaker Pelosi to cram it with walnuts.

[Le Taz Hot]

7. LOL!

You're kinder than I am.

[yardwork]

52. Yardwork concurred.

[BreweryYardRat]

151. Seawolf concurred, added unprintable remark involving masturbation & a stick covered in bullet ants

ANGRY bullet ants.

[Richardo]

3. I'm pretty sure that's what the whole campaign was about, Nancy. Try to keep up.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

112. The Obama campaign's coattails are the reason Pelosi will have this increased power

I think a little recognition from Pelosi is in order and I don't think she should be lecturing him at this point.

[Chulanowa]

124. She meant the middle as defined by the right

With them on the extreme far right, and the "middle" being somewhere between us and them, rather than the actual middle of American politics, which is where Obama is headed.

[ncteechur]

4. And she would know that because she won a district? rather than the entire

fucking nation??

[Maven]

5. STFU NANCY PELOSI - YOU ARE THE PROBLEM

[dana_b]

53. perfectly stated. n/t

[Edweird]

82. My sentiments exactly.

[closeupready]

94. For several years now, she's been leading a legislative body with approval ratings lower than GWB.

I think it's safe to say she doesn't know what the fuck she's talking about.

[tavalon]

122. Word!

[tazkcmo]

6. FU Pelosi n/t

[mike_c]

8. pelosi is either a spineless idiot or a coconspirator with the neocons....

She sure has worked hard to accommodate the RW since 2006.

[Why Syzygy]

15. Co-conspirator entered my mind.

Sure as hell doesn't sound like she is on OUR side.

[Greyhound]

26. She and her husband have been in the trough with both hands and their snouts

since Raygun was in office, she has a lot to lose should there be any real investigations, and don't forget that the Republiks know where she's buried many bodies.

[madeline_con]

32. I'd say a little from column A and a little from column B. n/t

[bobbolink]

41. Either way, she needs to go!

I wanted so badly for her to have such a great challenger that she would be replaced.

:(

Her and Reid both. :nuke:

[G_j]

46. bottom line: co-conspirator n/t

[Malidictus Maximus]

83. pelosi is either a spineless idiot or a coconspirator with the neocons....

Maybe it's not an "either-or" ,,,,,,

[The Backlash Cometh]

141. They certainly have something on Pelosi.

[floridablue]

9. Doubt she does much lecturing to the President-Elect.

[leftstreet]

10. Shove it, Nancy

[Sebastian Doyle]

11. Middle of WHAT, for fucks sake?

Nancy, did you see the electoral vote count from last night?

FUCK this "middle" shit. Fuck it with a chainsaw.

This was a DEMOCRATIC victory because the REPUBLICAN (i.e. "centrist") policies have FUCKING DESTROYED THE COUNTRY.


Now act like a Democrat, or get the fuck out of the way. :grr:

[arcadian]

12. Governing from the "middle" in this country means governing from the right.

Great, thanks again Pelosi, are you vying for Bush's "miserable failure" moniker?

[Peace Patriot]

33. She already won it: Congress 10% approval rating; Bush 20%. Lower than BUSH!! nt

[Freddie Stubbs]

89. And yet voters added MORE members to her caucus

[trudyco]

13. And if you follow my advice then you, too, can get the approval ratings congress has -nt

[Ian David]

14. Pelosi needs to STFU and resign, NOT be giving out advice. n/t

[Julius Civitatus]

21. Damn right. Sick of her.

She's been pure milquetoast.
She needs to resign, let someone with courage and determination take her place.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. peeps keep telling me she's a liberal... RIGHT.... really?

and what is the middle Madame Speaker?

And does that include moderation during a fire?

[MrCoffee]

19. Sad thing is, she was, before she became Speaker.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Well these days she ain't

she should read on Tip O'Neil...

[MrCoffee]

I swear to you, I had such high hopes of her Speakership

I wanted so badly for her to rock as Speaker.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. We all did

I was so proud when she took the gavel

[Leopolds Ghost]

134. SFians say she never was: she was a millionaire legacy Dem whose husband raised millions for party.

She bought her way in.

[charlie]

17. The driest powder havingest party in history

A fucking warehouse of powder kegs. If she doesn't start doling out a little of that stuff soon, the whole place is gonna go up the next time she separates towels out of the dryer.

Just pretend we've got a little power Nancy, even if you can't make yourself believe it. For once.

[Julius Civitatus]

18. Nancy: STFU, please. You don't seem to speak for anyone

but for yourself. You have been an embarrassment in your post, so far.

Time for CHANGE now.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

20. She's Right, And I'm Sure Obama Agrees With Her.

[Cleita]

24. What part of the last two years are you happy with?

In the USA the middle is actually pretty far right.

[Telly Savalas]

28. What centrist agenda was advanced in the last two years?

Not much changed in the last couple of years, and I'd hardly call the maintenance of Bush's policies governing from the middle.

[Cleita]

29. Exactly my point.

The biggest maintainer of Bush's policies was Nancy Pelosi and she wants Obama to follow her lead, not the other way around. I hope Congress elects another Speaker of the House.

[Telly Savalas]

37. There's a huge difference between doing nothing and proactively governing from a centrist position.

Pelosi spent the last two years engineering the former and is now claiming to advocate the latter.

[Cleita]

39. I want her replaced.

The last thing this country needs is a centrist position. We need to go back to governing in the mode of FDR. Our country was great then.

[lutefisk]

62. She probably would have told FDR the same thing.

And he probably wouldn't have listened, either.

[defendandprotect]

43. Sure hope not --!!

[Zhade]

116. Um, not to impugn your wisdom or anything, but - "THANK GOD IT PASSED!"

Your judgment is sorely lacking.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

145. Why am I not surprised at your response?

[Bobbie Jo]

22. Just give him a copy of your book, Nancy.

He's a quick study. :eyes:

[GreenPartyVoter]

23. To be honest, I always expected he would.

[bobbolink]

58. Are we allowed to say that?

Because I heartily concur.

:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

[Lilith Velkor]

74. Yes, we can

That "pop" you just heard was the sound of thousands of fauxgressive bullies' heads exploding.

[Ken Burch]

109. What is it with you and this "fauxgressive" thing?

Are you saying the liberal wing of the party has no right to expect anything in exchange for our having elected Obama?

Or are you saying we should've backed someone else?

Please, stop the snide comments and actually make a clear point, wouldya?

You're not entitled to take that "you all know perfectly well what I'm talking about" tone of voice here, because, frankly, nobody does know what you're saying.

[Lilith Velkor]

111. I'm talking about bullies who stalk people from thread to thread, making childish demands.

Sound familiar?

And FYI, there is no "tone of voice" in text. The voices in your head aren't coming from me, so they don't count.

[Ken Burch]

113. Nobody was stalking you in this thread, or any other. And in my thread about Begala,

You were the one who attacked me. I have nothing against you personally, and all I'm doing is defending Obama's victory against people who want to water it down to nothing.

And, fine, there's no "tone of voice", but there is tone of phrase. You've been taking this weirdly superior and arrogant tone all day.
And I have no idea what brought that on.

It's not bullying to stand up to the DLC.

[Lilith Velkor]

114. So, you are denying that you are posting in this thread right now?

That's a whole nother level of crazy right there. Whee! :woohoo:

You are even more fun than I thought you would be. :popcorn:

[Ken Burch]

115. Of course I'm not denying that I'm posting in this thread.

But all I'm doing is trying to have a political discussion with you. You are acting like I'm outside your house with an automatic weapon or something.

All this ever was was that I didn't(and still don't)understand what your point was. That's not bullying. And this is just a message board.

Why are you making something out of this that simply isn't there?

[tavalon]

123. What the hell is your problem?

Watching from the sidelines, you look like the provoker here.

[Lilith Velkor]

126. I wasn't the one taking an argument into another thread

You look like the bullshitter.

If this was not a rhetorical question and you actually want an answer, you would do well to leave out the snotty accusations.

[GreenPartyVoter]

76. Well, I hope so. I know some people take it as an insult but Obama himself has

said he isn't all that liberal, just to the left of **. And at this point, that's still an improvement for the mess this country has become. Hopefully in a few more years we will be more accepting as a nation of liberals in high places.

[bobbolink]

78. How many deaths in that "few more years"?

[GreenPartyVoter]

79. Sadly, I expect there will be a lot. It doesn't look like the war in Afghanistan will

get shut down. Even if we leave Iraq, we opened a Pandora's box there so death will continue to be our legacy even after we are gone. And then too, as long as the health care system is broken there will be those deaths as well.

[bobbolink]

80. Believe it or not, I'm not talking about WAR.

I'm talking about people like me, dying right here in this country, because our "cause" isn't popular with "progressives".

As a matter of fact, your post says it... we aren't even thought of.

That's not an attack... it's stating just how left out and ignored so many of us feel.

DO our deaths matter?

[Chovexani]

129. No one's got time for the poor and downtrodden

Least of all the fauxgressive hipster set. Doing so would require them to put their Blackberries down for a minute.

[bobbolink]

147. Sadly, you are correct. Not even time to reply to a post.

BUT.... we poor are then used to bolster their arguments, before turning their backs on us yet again.

Then they wonder why we aren't cheering for the party like we used to.....

:cry:

[Larkspur]

25. If Obama follows Nancy's advice he deserves the low approval ratings Pelosi and Reid

have earned for Congress.

[dartuser]

50. 9%

The country has decided it wants more of 9% Nancy ... Obama would be wise to listen to her all the way down to an approval rating of -15

[Larkspur]

136. The nation did not pick Nancy Pelosi

Her district did.

[dynasaw]

27. Stuff it Nancy

"We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over".--Aneurin Bevan (1897-1960)

[dixiegrrrrl]

71. Even Texas armadillos have learned that lesson, Nancy.

[kestrel91316]

30. Nancy, we have the right to expect that A DEMOCRAT will govern from the LEFT.

That's what we elected him to do. Doesn't have to be far left, but it damned well better be identifiably left to those of us on the left (as opposed to the knuckledraggers on the right).

[Bluebear]

31. 'Doesn't have to be far left, but it damned well better be identifiably left'

Well said.

[madrchsod]

59. i agree...although my post does not reflect that...

[mirrera]

142. Said perfectly!!! Howard Dean said it this morning at the press club. Center LEFT nation.

The Democratic party better loose the abused spouse syndrome and loose it quick. The Republicans never stop campaigning, NEVER! Of course that leaves them absolutely no brain power left for governing... but still, they stake a claim on the "right" without shame. The "right" wing is not ashamed when they should be, and the Left wing is. As Dean said this morning, when citizens are asked about their priorities with out partisan slant, those priorities line up with the Democratic platform.

I think Pelosi and Reid should maybe study that platform... re-read it, and follow it.

[LiberalHeart]

34. Nancy, May I please help you write your resignation letter?

[blackbooks]

36. Oh, that's right...

She kept her job. Damn.

Hey, could someone tell Quisling we won?

[bobbolink]

40. She needs to be fitted for a muzzle.

Where's her love of country????

[defendandprotect]

42. Right.. Pelosi back trying to PREVENT change -- !!!

[ColbertWatcher]

44. LOL! Anyone who sees this as anything other than "political talk" is fooling themselves.

Of course Pelosi has to say that.

Geez people.

[Bluebear]

45. Well, I don't know that she "had" to say anything today.

Jeez, let us bask for 2 minutes already, Nancy!

[ColbertWatcher]

72. Of course, no one has to say anything, really.

Especially those hateful morans at GOP rallies.

[bobbolink]

60. "Geez people."

Does all that authoritarian finger-wagging make you feel righteous?

[ColbertWatcher]

73. LOL! Does all that passive-aggressive labeling make you feel like you're contributing? n/t

[bobbolink]

77. Just about as much as your divisiveness.

NOt to mention the defensiveness.

Can't even have ONE day off, eh?

[ColbertWatcher]

81. Look, I'll let you have the last word. I'm done with this "conversation." n/t

[Pastiche423]

47. Fuck You, Nancy!

And I mean that from the bottom of my heart.

[VenusRising]

91. +1

Perfectly stated.

:toast:

[Pastiche423]

92. Thank you kindly

[alarimer]

48. No way Pelosi.

Since the middle is effectively the right, I do not trust people who want to govern from the "middle".

Or, Jim Hightower once said, "The only thing in the middle of the road are yellow stripes and dead armadillos."

[fla nocount]

49. "not to worry Nancy, I stand to the right of you,

that's Senator Byrd standing to our left."

[Why Syzygy]

51. And that's the CHANGE we can believe in?

That's not what the People voted for, Pelosi.

[SoCalDemocrat]

54. Umm, how about NOT

The (R) will stonewall either way. WE need to do what we feel is right for America and govern based on our values as a party. For now forget about where that lands on the political spectrum or who it appeases or pisses off.

[depakid]

55. But my sister from North Carolina think Pelosi is the most flaming of liberals!

and even kind of hates her (depsite being a lifelong Democrat).

Bottom line: if the Obama administration follows Pelosi's advice- 2010 will look like 1994.

[madrchsod]

56. the political reality is that he has to...

the moderate republicans have to be convinced to break from the extreme right. if we do not convince them that it is in their own self interest to move to the center/moderate position then in two years we will lose senate and house seats.
as much as i would love to see a progressive agenda the political reality is that it`s not going to happen anytime soon.

[gollygee]

57. No, they've swung things too far that way, and things need to swing back again

Did GWB govern from the middle?

[Orsino]

61. But not from your knees, Madame Speaker. n/t

[RollWithIt]

63. Anyone who thinks Obama won't govern from the center-left hasn't been paying attention...

He won't be the Democratic version of Bush, only talking to his own side and stifling debate.

[bemildred]

64. The interesting question here, IMHO is:

Whether President Obama (boy I like saying that) handles his Democratic Congress with the dexterity required. Since he is a Senator, it seems that he might. The only recent figures I can compare him with are Kennedy and Johnson, those two being Senators too. He has already made it clear that he is willing and able to "go to the people". It should be a much more interesting show.

[Kitty Herder]

65. What exactly is her problem anyway?!

I'm getting sick of this shit.

We now have a Democratic President, and Democratic majorities in the House and Senate.

WE DON"T HAVE TO BE TIMID ANYMORE, DAMMIT!!

[spanone]

66. step back nancy and allow the man to govern

[pleah]

67. I wish she would STFU!

[malaise]

68. STFU Nancy

Please.

[frylock]

69. nancy's job was to sit behind president shithead during the SOTU as a big fuck you to the repubs..

your service is no longer required, ms. publicity.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

70. So does this mean she's going to finally legislate from the left?

I have no problem with that balance of a centrist executive, but she has acted like a scared little mouse while Chimpy has continued his right-wing bullshit.

[earth mom]

75. In other words, Pelosi is saying let's keep it politics as usual.

:puke:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

84. Nancy's still adding to her supply of dry powder. Politics as usual is not change.

[bermudat]

85. Congresswoman 'Impeachment is off the table"?

I want a new speaker of the house.

[Cha]

86. Fuck that..did she say that to

bush?

[KakistocracyHater]

87. here we go again

he can't shift to the middle, that would mean he'd get to keep most of the Chimperor's extra-legal authority, keep the Bush Doctrine-just maybe not use it?
Is that what they mean by getting centrist? That's like shaving only half your face, or only 1 leg-wtf?

All those still-loyal Bushies are in office, waiting to sabotage Obama's every effort, I hope people realize this. I also hope people realize how checks & balances were being removed under Clinton & that's partly why it was so easy when the crazies grabbed power. I look at all the illegal things the gop has done: where are the cops, the judges, the jags? All those 'circuit-breakers' somehow failed just in time. How about the 1996 War Crimes Act, the 1 the gop retro-actively immunized themselves from after they 'won' in 2004? Start there.

[lib2DaBone]

88. Im sure she works for the Neocons .... DINO

Joe Lieberman in a dress. SHe is a Bushie through and through......

[natrat]

90. she is so fucking gross, i voted for sheehan

[bdamomma]

93. She needs to be sweep out too.

Obama is a man with a plan and a strategy, shut up Nancy.

[upi402]

95. Pelosi is the new Lieberman n/t

[Hotler]

96. Go away Nancy.

Nancy needs to go now people.

[kenny blankenship]

97. Sixty some million people just made this man President - and you're lecturing him?

How many people elected you, Nancy?

[OhioChick]

98. She's already handing out orders??

:eyes:

[upi402]

100. I'm going to recommend this

I think it's important to tell the people who work for us, who we have given power to, that WE want them to do what WE need.

The Republican 1/2 of America will NEVER like ANYTHING the Pelosi/Lieberman "Dems" do.

[unkachuck]

101. Dear Democratic Leadership....

....you can talk all the campaign gibberish you wish, but be forewarned, that the pre-election campaigning grace-period is now officially over....

....you have a little more than a year to feed your grassroots progressive base with results....you control Congress, you control the White House....there are NO excuses....

....it's really quite simple, you will either produce grassroots progressive results or you will be out of a job....the repugs produce for their base, if you're competent, you should be able to produce for your base too....don't say it's impossible....

....to bank popularity, reduce the deficit/debt or pursue some other bullshit strategy so repugs can loot the treasury again in the future, is unacceptable....please don't demonstrate to us that there is no hope or room in the corporate Democratic Party for grassroot progressives....

[47of74]

102. Dear Nancy,

Don't tell Obama what to do.

[Suji to Seoul]

103. Dear Nan: Piss off, triangulator! DLC Shrew!!! Piss off!!!!

[midnight armadillo]

104. Did she learn NOTHING in the last 8 years?

The Dems are in power. There is a crisis at hand. Now is the time to go for broke and implement a sweeping agenda.

Why is Pelosi trying to cut the Democrats' balls off?

[Zhade]

105. Whatever, you stupid fool. You're willing to let criminals walk, who cares what you have to say?

Fuck off, you complicit coward.

[MrMickeysMom]

106. I've had it with her, but my brother-in-law can't seem to understand why...

... He's no newcomer to politics, having been successful on the local school board, but for some reason, his attitude about her is that she UNDERSTANDS the more imperative problems, and that we should "move on" with them, not to be tied up with putting impeachment on the table (as if those things could not occur simultaneously).

I'm tired of that "in order to bring people together you must rule from the center" horseshit.

At what point is the "middle" determined? Is is somewhere left of the extreme right? What is the extreme right? Are some so far right, they're left?

Bullshit.

[FedUpWithIt All]

107. We voted in OBAMA. We liked HIS plans. We want HIM to lead according to the arrangements HE made

with the PEOPLE.

Nancy needs to STAY OUT OF IT!!!!!!

[dhpgetsit]

108. The middle has moved left.

Keep up, Pelosi!

[Indenturedebtor]

110. How about governing with some Courage and Sense?

To me that means governing from the left... you know doing things that have advanced this country throughout it's history: such as social programs, infrastructure building, progressive taxes, education, science, support for the struggling, etc. Like um LIBERAL STUFF.

Go fuck yourself you fucking NANCY!

[Stellabella]

117. And how has that worked for you so far, Ms. Pelosi?

There is no 'middle' on trying to slow global warming, the Iraq occupation, equal rights for all, a progressive tax system, and health care for all.

[Raineyb]

118. Speaker Pelosi re: your advice

Thanks but no thanks.

Regards

[Prophet 451]

119. Fuck that

According to FiveThirtyEight.com, Obama has notched up a popular vote lead of 6.1% (52.3% to McCain's 46.2%) and an electoral vote total of 349 (with a few more probably to come) after a campaign where his opponants lied about him from start to finish. That is not a request for moderation, that is a MANDATE for major change.

[Lugnut]

120. Shut up, Nancy.

Go polish your goddam table.

[tavalon]

121. Um, Nancy, I for one, don't give a damn what you have to say

You never set the table so you don't get to sit with the grownups.

[Dukkha]

125. HEY NANCY, GOVERN THIS MIDDLE

[Dover]

127. What would Pelosi know about governing from the middle?

She and our Dem Congress have leaned so far to the right that there is no longer any
distinction at all from the GOP. Who represents the true CENTER or LEFT anymore?

[HEyHEY]

128. Who's the prez, bigmouth? NOT YOU!

[FatDave]

130. I'm sorry, who's got the bully pulpit again?

That's what I thought.

[PDittie]

131. Pelosi is a Blue Dog.

That, among the mountains of other evidence, is why she suggested Chet Edwards for V-P.

A San Francisco Blue Dog. Forget finding a real Democrat to be Speaker; can't those people out there elect a real Democrat to that seat?

[greguganus]

133. Fuck off Nancy! Aren't you late for another face lift or something? n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

135. Time for her to go.

She seemed like a good idea at the time, but she just hasn't panned out.

[wroberts189]

137. You mean like Bush did? n/t

[gollygee]

138. Bush needed voter suppression and a supreme court nudge to win

and even then BARELY won.

Obama on the other hand won by a landslide!

Do the math here. Are we right-center? If we were, it would be the other way around.

[The Backlash Cometh]

139. Old Guard Dem. It's time for you to retire.

[eppur_se_muova]

143. Mr. President, DO NOT listen to that woman! nt

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

144. They repeated this a little while ago on MSM...There is a mass campaign now to bully Obama into

serving center right now. Pelosi is not our friend.

[OwnedByFerrets]

146. I will add my FU....obviously a co-conspirator.

[BanTheGOP]

148. WHO should we promote for House Leader instead of Pelosi?

I nominate Dennis Kucinich.

[GeorgeGist]

150. Nancy the Retread doesn't get it.

Obama changed the rules for governing ALL Americans, and he did it by consensus.

[pat_k]

152. Too bad the DC Dem definition of "Middle" is so far right it would stand Nixon's hair on end!

"Reaching across the Aisle" defenders of torture and authoritarian power isn't "bipartisanship." It's immoral appeasement.

Would be great if Pelosi had a inkling about the nature of her duty or an clue about the things "the Middle" wants from their government. Would be nice if she viewed the people who elected her as citizens to be heard; not subjects to be manipulated.

Sadly, there can be no legitimate governing -- from "the Middle" or anywhere else-- when the men and women we elect to serve as our voice in Congress refuse to stand and fight for the most basic American principles.

Impeach and restore legitimate government, then we can talk about how we can solve our most urgent common problems in ways balance conflicting interests and reflect our shared principles.

_________________________

BTW. when you take out loaded and/or meaningless rhetoric and labels (like "the Middle") and talk about concrete action, I've found that people who label themselves "right" or "left" are in agreement on a vast majority of the things they want, but are not getting, from their government. When you get concrete, I've also found broad agreement on ways in which costs can be fairly distributed.

It's sometimes quite remarkable. Even on "hot button issues" like abortion, when you get clear about what it would mean to ban abortion, many of those "against it" lighten up. (e.g., "Nobody likes abortion. It seems to me that the only difference is that I don't want to throw frightened women and their doctors into jail.")

[tbyg52]

153. No problem, as long as the middle is moved to the actual middle first. nt