8 years of high crimes and treason and so many people just want to let them go

[specimenfred1984]

I've never been more proud of America than I am today and that is because of what America can be now, the country it was meant to be. It's a place where justice and the people matter the most, where laws and morals and ethics enable us all to move ahead in our lives regardless of our beginnings.

If we just let war criminals go, let torturers go, let those who conspired to commit war and spread propaganda for years go, if we let election tampering go, energy price-fixing go, wiretapping go, outing CIA agents go, economic looters who have stolen 100s of billions go: WHAT THE FUCK GOOD ARE WE AS A COUNTRY?

We are nothing without our laws, morals, ethics and accountability: NOTHING.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

1. NOTHING

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Not me I want them prosecuted

or better yet, a truth and reconciliation commission

These crimes go beyond eight years

A commission might force the murican people to realize what has been done in their names since at least Reagan...

[pat_k]

36. Only impeachment says "Torture? Not in Our America!"

Justice demands prosecution, but prosecution is not objection on behalf of the people. Only Congress can say "NO!" on behalf of the nation.

Bush and Cheney openly admit and defend their torture policy. They willfully and openly usurp forbidden powers. Anything short of impeachment is NOT an unequivocal rejection.

Unless Congress wakes up to their duty and moves to impeach before January 20th, it will be nearly impossible to make prosecution a reality. To allow them an honorable exit -- a nice little tea with Obama and whatnot -- puts the stamp of approval on torture. Without impeachment, we are Subjects; not Citizens.

And, as far as truth and reconciliation. Bush and Cheney have proven over and over and over again that they have no qualms about blatantly violating Federal law or boldly "defending" their crimes by simply asserting "That was not a crime because we say so." Truth and reconciliation would require something they aren't likely to give: An admission of wrong-doing.

[truthisfreedom]

3. If they're not held accountable they'll just come back and do it again.

We've got to set an example. We need a task force in Congress to figure out how to try them in groups.

[Zhade]

17. That's what happened after nixon. And Iran-Contra. And the first bush.

NT!

[Gregorian]

4. Big crimes take time to fully discover.

The Mafia, for example.

I'm highly impatient. And the prospect of pardons really irks me beyond limit.

These people are not free men. Just because they aren't behind bars doesn't mean they aren't looking behind them. And as it stands, the world is on your side. Only a few Americans are drunk with stupidity. The majority of people around this planet know what happened.

It's seriously upsetting that Congress hasn't at least given resistance. But I'm not well versed in how Congress works. So many voted for the Iraq invasion. It's a different mindset. They were lied to. And who knows what else. Who knows.

Real estate and politics require endless patience.


One more thing. These guys covered their bases. And they tilted justice toward their side. There are a multitude of things against discovering just what happened.

[specimenfred1984]

7. Here's a list of 50 Colin Powell lies he conspired to spread to start the Iraq War

along with 187 other documented lies Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld spread:

http://oversight.house.gov/IraqOnTheRecord/index.asp?Speaker=Secretary+of+State+Colin+Powell

[Gregorian]

12. Thanks. Yes, those are all the things forums like this one discovered as well.

It has been enlightening, to say the least, that members of forums such as this one managed to reveal and discover the truth, as we went down the road to war.

Revealing a CIA agent's identity. This was discussed is depth here. All I could to was step back and watch.

So your point is taken- we have crimes. Where we go from here, I don't know. I see years of heavy duty litigation and discovery. I still think immediate impeachment is important on several levels. Perhaps primarily to prevent pardons.

[Porschenut1066]

23. Colin Powell said he was "ordered" to deliver the speech as written

even though he strongly objected to it. Apparently Bush gave him a direct order as his Commander in Chief and as a good Army man he did what he was told. It must have sucked to be Powell after that speech he was ordered to deliver, but he did a very good endorsement of Obama.

[conscious evolution]

27. As Secretary of State

he had a legal and moral duty to oppose the speech and the war.Which he did not take.Instead he was a good german and 'just followed orders'.
Following orders is not a valid excise for committing crimes against the peace and crimes against humanity.
As far as I am concerned he can hang with the rest of them for his crimes.

[Art_from_Ark]

38. He wasn't in the army at the time

He was a civilian, serving in the capacity of Secretary of State. There is absolutely no law that requires a Secretary of State to obey orders from a president.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

24. You couldn't convict him in a court of law on any of those statements.

He'll simply say he gave a briefing on what he was told and that he was told the intelligence was extremely good. Obama would pardon them anyway.

David

[Art_from_Ark]

26. Colin Powell?

You mean the "respected general and former Secretary of State who is getting cozy with Obama and may be even be offered a position in the Obama administration"

THAT Colin Powell?

[specimenfred1984]

9. Also, here's a documentary on U.S. torture policy

http://torturingdemocracy.org/

I could post 100s of links all citing mountains of evidence already collected, prosecution is only a matter of whether Americans will stand up and demand justice. Without justice for the worst crimes ever committed against America in American history, we will remain a nation of frauds, criminals and non-credible world looters.

[Gregorian]

22. I'm in total agreement with your sentiments.

My very first post in a political forum was Impeach Bush. It was too early for even the liberal bloggers.

I'm quite aware of what has happened. There can be no doubt that what has happened absolutely requires prosecution. If not, then there is no such thing as justice. After all, these are the highest of crimes.

In fact, against what Pelosi said about us showing her the crimes, impeachment doesn't require a crime. So that argument is out the window.

November 4th may be a signal. A starting point.

It's late here. I'm quite sick. I drank a bottle of champagne last night. And I don't drink. This was a day of total and complete hell. OUCH. But I am so glad to see these calls for prosecution coming so soon after the election. Let's get this done. I don't want Pinochet justice. Justice delayed is...

[Mira]

5. K&R you are singing my song

[kestrel91316]

6. Not me. I want them prosecuted, convicted, and hanged.

I guess we don't hang traitors anymore. A pity.

[elocs]

8. What do you think Obama will do? My guess is that you will not be happy about it.

Reality is a harsh mistress and Democrats' frenzy for a reckoning will very likely never happen.

[specimenfred1984]

11. I don't like terms like "harsh mistress", they mean nothing.

And there's no "frenzy for a reckoning", there's a simple demand that our laws, the best set of laws in the world, be followed now that we have people in public office who actually represent the American people.

[elocs]

15. I can give it to you in very simple terms you can easily understand: it won't happen.

All words have meaning, even if you do not have the imagination to ken them. Wouldn't reading be boring if we all wrote like 5th graders?

[Frosty1]

34. Bologna

Yes we can. Either our laws are for everyone or none of us have to follow them:grr:

[elocs]

37. Well, start holding your breathe now.

Welcome to the real world where the guilty have frequently gone unpunished. With all of the problems this nation faces, don't look for either Obama or Congress to do anything.

[Zhade]

19. Wanting justice and accountability from criminals is "frenzy"?

NT!

[Frosty1]

35. This is not just Democrats

The world wants them held accountable. They are watching.

[onenote]

10. you say you are proud of America for electing Obama

and yet he doesn't support prosecution of chimpy and his gang. I guess that leaves me confused.

[specimenfred1984]

13. Stay confused then, lots of people like to

The Geneva Conventions and U.S. law are very clear however, there is no confusion there.

[conscious evolution]

29. No confusion whatsoever

International law is quite specific when it comes to war crimes,etc..

[Gregorian]

14. Biden has been open about his willingness to prosecute.

He's been very open about it. But you may be right about Obama.

[Zhade]

16. Many are cowards willing to let criminals walk.

Many are fools who think there will be no repercussions down the line.

[Duppers]

18. Bravo! nt

Recommended too.

[FDRJFKMLKRFKBHO11408]

20. It is what it is...

I've learned to keep my expectations low as not to be disappointed. I'm pleasantly surprised when anything goes our way, anymore.

Ultimately what will happen, will happen. There's nothing that I can do to change it. At this point the sheer mass and scope of the issues facing the nation is beyond comprehension. I am a believer in karma, and the balance is always restored.

[tavalon]

21. Who in the world wants to let them go?

Maybe the DLC which is clearly going to have its fangs in this administration.

[robinlynne]

25. I jsut heard Jane Harman and Arnold for cabinet members? is obama out of his mind?

Is he that far to the right? Rahm Emanuel? What on earth? Jane Harman the war monger for goodness sake? a republican? in the cabinet? It is sickening and saddening. sorry to rain on th big parade. I was really happy for almost 24 hours that we finally had our first elected president in 10 years.

[formercia]

28. Prosecute the perpeTRAITORS

If we don't, they will keep right on with their program to destroy the Constitution.

[TBUSA]

30. President Obama understands the importance of the

Constitution. He is a scholar of it. I believe he will want to prosecute those who have
violated America's cornerstone.

[Art_from_Ark]

39. He doesn't seem to understand the importance of the 4th Amendment

If he can't understand the importance of the 4th Amendment, I don't have so much confidence in his ability to understand the rest of the Constitution.

[slipslidingaway]

31. K&R n/t

[wildbilln864]

32. I'm with you spec! k&r! nt

[dkofos]

33. This will continue to happen until we actually do something about it.