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Gay Marriage Ban Looks To Have Passed In CA, But Is It Legal?

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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 03:53 AM
Original message
Gay Marriage Ban Looks To Have Passed In CA, But Is It Legal?
http://www.alternet.org/sex/106161/gay_marriage_ban_looks_to_have_passed_in_california%2C_but_is_it_legal/

Gay Marriage Ban Looks to Have Passed in California, but Is It Legal?

By Karen Ocamb, AlterNet. Posted November 6, 2008.

Lawyers and marriage equality proponents are calling Proposition 8 illegal, and they may have good legal ground to stand on.

Hundreds of gay people and their allies at the Music Box in Hollywood on Election Night thundered their approval when states such as Pennsylvania and Ohio were called for Barack Obama. Like so many others around the world, gay people, anxious for change, felt the pendulum of history about to make a huge sweep in a progressive direction.

In between the election results and foot-stomping music, a steady stream of elected officials -- including new hero Jack O'Connell, California's superintendent of education, who appeared in a No on Prop. 8 ad condemning the "lies" promulgated by the Yes on 8 campaign -- promised to "fight for equality" even if Proposition 8 passed. But for most, that was unthinkable. How could the people of California in 2008 vote to eliminate the existing fundamental right of same-sex couples to marry and write that prohibition into the state constitution?

- snip -

Several lawsuits were immediately filed seeking an injunction and arguing the unconstitutionality of Prop. 8 to the California Supreme Court. Attorney Gloria Allred and her partner John West filed a suit in the high court on behalf of their clients Robin Tyler and Diane Olson, who were the first lesbian couple married in Los Angeles after same-sex marriage became legal.

"Prop. 8, if it passes, conflicts with the equal protection clause (in the California Constitution)," Allred said at an afternoon news conference in her Los Angeles office on Wednesday. "We will argue to the court that Prop. 8 is a disguised revision to the constitution which cannot be imposed by the ordinary amendment process, which only requires a simple majority. We believe that then the court must hold that California may not issue marriage licenses to non-gay couples because if it does, it would be violating the equal protection clause as straight couple would have more rights, by being allowed to marry, than gay couples."

Lambda Legal, the National Center for Lesbian Rights, and the ACLU also filed a lawsuit directly with the high court challenging Prop. 8. They, too, allege that the measure is invalid because it failed to follow the proper process required to make far-reaching changes to the California Constitution -- such as denying a fundamental right to a minority and prohibiting the courts from remedying abuses of that minority's rights.

Late in the afternoon, Los Angeles City Attorney Rocky Delgadillo joined yet another lawsuit filed by San Francisco City Attorney Dennis Herrera and Santa Clara County Counsel Anne C. Ravel to invalidate Prop. 8.

"Equal protection under the law is a bedrock principle of our constitutional democracy," said Delgadillo. "Proposition 8 flies in the face of that principle and strips away fundamental rights from countless Californians. Proposition 8's supporters won a temporary victory, but only after waging a misleading campaign based on fear and bankrolled by out-of-state interests. I am committed to using every resource at my disposal to secure the full civil rights of my constituents and all Californians. We will not allow discrimination to be written into our state constitution, and I am confident we will preserve equal rights for all. This is California."

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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 04:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. NO!
It's a bigoted piece of trash and an embarrassment to humanity.

:kick:


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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 04:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Exactly so! nm
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Mollis Donating Member (812 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 04:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. Hell no, it's not legal
just a matter of time...we can overturn this. For sure.
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Geoff R. Casavant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm not following the argument here. Someone help me out.
Proposition 8, if I recall correctly, was a proposed amendment to the California constitution. If it passed according to the California constitutional rules for amendments, then by definition is is constitutional, and any earlier provision of the California constitution must now be interpreted so as not to be in conflict with the new amendment.

I hate Prop 8 as much as the next thinking American, but this argument looks like a lead balloon unless the article omits something I'm missing.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. California recognizes not one but two ways to alter its state Constitution
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 12:32 PM by kgfnally
One way is the way Prop 8 passed, which is by a 50% +1 margin; the other way (which they are arguing is how Prop 8 should have been put to a vote) is called a "revision", which requires a 2/3 majority and (I think) action by the state legislature.

The argument- I think- is that the removal (by the 50% +1 method) of rights already recognized as fundamental by the courts conflicts directly with already established text in the state Constitution and, therefore, represents a revision of the state Constitution, which cannot be passed the way Prop 8 was.

It's a bit bizarre, and I might not have it exactly right (living in MI and all), but they seem to think they have a valid argument.

Basically: Amending the Constitution- "yer doin it rong". Heh.
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Geoff R. Casavant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Thank you.
Your information has made everything right with my worldview once again.

Best of luck to those fighting this odious piece of legislation.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. You got it
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. I wish they would hold off on fighting this for a while. nt.
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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Why?
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. Why? n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
9. F#cking NO, it's not legal. And I can't believe we let the rightwing nuttery
get away with this.

No on H8 has conceded. And, while in my heart I believe this must and will be settled in the courts, I'm heartbroken that they didn't follow up on counting our votes. I'm pretty sure my no vote hasn't even been counted yet. There are millions of ballots uncounted. If we're going to fight for this, we have to be willing to outlast these motherf#ckers and that means, not conceding two days after an election before the votes are even counted or before the vote totals have been verified.

If we don't have our votes, we don't have very much.








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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. won't the votes still be counted?
a concession doesn't stop the vote count...does it?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. No, it doesn't stop the count. But fewer eyes on the process
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 06:10 PM by sfexpat2000
especially when we're up against these filthy people, means no one there to catch anomalies or worse. Does that make sense?

There are counties in CA that are a mess and that are corrupt and I'm sorry no one had the wherewithall to follow up on our votes. I don't blame them, either though.

:grouphug:

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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. yeah...that makes sense
i am still hopeful this POS will be defeated when all the votes are counted :thumbsup:
it's is tragic all the YES on 8 money wasn't spent to actually help people. way to go religionists :thumbsdown:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I think this election was dirty. I don't believe this really passed in L.A. County.
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 06:25 PM by sfexpat2000
There's no way. The numbers just don't work for me. I'm not an expert but they don't add up. I don't believe half a million people voted for Obama and didn't vote with us in L.A. County. It didn't happen.

But, I don't know what the leadership against H8 is dealing with or even, if they have anyone like me or better to spot election fraud.

I think the Courts will have to do this, finally. No one was going to integrate Central High without intervention, right?

One of the first people I met when I went to work for the City and County of San Francisco as a 19 yr old embryo was Harvey Milk. In a way, I'm so glad he's not here to see this. And I'm committed to fighting this until we win. And, we will win this. No one can stop this wave now.








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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. i am sure people will be looking at the numbers
sadly, i had a feeling prop 8 would pass. homohatred is still considered sacred to many...they don't even recongnize it as prejudice because they feel so justified.

this is even sadder: a woman i've known for several years told me she voted YES on 8...and she is a black lesbian. her reason: she doesn't "believe" in gay marriage. something tells me she's not the only gay person who voted YES :cry: it's hard not to feel totally defeated, but...

i am hopeful that we will find redress in the court. and yes, desegregation wouldn't have happened without the courts.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. I feel skeptical because the media jumped on the narrative so quickly.
Whatever. We keep moving. :hug:
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plaintiff Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Do you believe there might have been some (or many) voters confused by the language
of the proposition?...that is, believing that a "yes" vote was actually favoring gay marriage rights? I have a hard time too thinking LA county went as it apparently did...like one would expect in Orange. :shrug:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yes. A lot of people were confused. And a lot of people were lied to
outright with robocalls, flyers and signs.


That's why I've kept trying to say, slow down. We don't know what happened yet. Let's not go off on people until we do know.


That may be an unreasonable request right now.
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WhollyHeretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. Any legal experts want to chime in on this? This seems like a sound argument.
I believe the original court ruling used equal protection to grant gay marriage so how could they take it away without striking equal protection.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R, these are sound legal arguments...

regardless of what CNN says.
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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
17. No. "Equal rights" means "equal rights." It's UnConsitutional. NT
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