Woman hit by stray bullet at NASCAR race in Texas

[NNN0LHI]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gO3EyQbDCzemQO3gu5fmxDTGh5kwD947L5L80

FORT WORTH, Texas (AP) — A NASCAR fan in her recreational vehicle at Texas Motor Speedway was wounded by a stray bullet after someone apparently fired a gun into the air, police said.

A bullet suddenly pierced through the motor home's roof Sunday morning before the Dickies 500 race, hitting a woman in the right arm, relatives said.

"She immediately (screamed), 'I've been shot. I've been shot.' She took off running out the door," her son-in-law Bobby Cook told Dallas-Fort Worth television station KTVT.

The 62-year-old woman, whose name was not released by authorities, was taken to a nearby hospital with a "significant wound" and was listed in stable condition, police Lt. Paul Henderson said Monday.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/DN-shooting_05met.ART.State.Edition1.4ab463f.html

Benbrook man says his bullet may have hit woman at Texas Motor Speedway

12:00 AM CST on Wednesday, November 5, 2008
Dan X. McGraw

Fort Worth police are investigating reports from a 49-year-old Benbrook man who says he may be responsible for the stray bullet that hit an Arlington woman Sunday morning at Texas Motor Speedway.

Kennith Jaramillo contacted Fort Worth police on Monday after hearing that Jill King Moss, 62, was hit in her arm by a .50-caliber bullet that pierced the roof of her RV, authorities said. Ms. Moss was taken to Harris Methodist Fort Worth Hospital and is expected to recover from her injuries.

Given the bullet's trajectory, Fort Worth police investigators believe the bullet came from far away.

Mr. Jaramillo told police he was target shooting five miles from Texas Motor Speedway between 10 and 11 a.m., said Lt. Paul Henderson, a Fort Worth police spokesman. Mr. Jaramillo fired five or six rounds at a berm, a mound of dirt, with his .50-caliber Vulcan single-shot rifle.

[jpak]

1. .50 cal is so cool

not

:puke:

[Pavulon]

39. Old school round.. ban it and

see how long until the superior 408 chey and 338 laps fill in.

[xchrom]

2. recommend -- irony -- allll over the place. nt

[marmar]

13. Yup.....

But I suspect the actors in this story won't see it.

[Arugula Latte]

32. Texas? Check. Nascar? Check. Guns? Check.

[southpaw]

3. Damn...

Just, Damn.

[Joe_VB]

4. I'm not buying the man's excuse about....wait this is Texas ...

they do have magic bullets down there...

[onehandle]

5. Guns are cool. Make me feel like a big man.

Gun sales are surging just like they did when Clinton was elected.

Here come the McVeighs.

[Elidor]

6. This has the potential to be one of the great flame wars of all time

:popcorn:

[youthere]

8. I'm just glad there are still some good seats left...

:popcorn:

[ProfessorGAC]

7. Five Miles?

I don't know much about guns but now many, even .50 caliber weapons would have 8800 yards of range, be able to penetrate the roof of an RV and still cause an entry wound?

That sounds very much UNLIKE a sportsman's weapon.
The Professor

[Greyhound]

11. I don't think there are any rounds with that much range, especially

one as big as a .50 cal. A .223 can travel maybe half that but it has a fraction of the mass of that round. Also, I didn't see any mention of what kind of .50 cal round this was, a modern bullet or a .50 cal black power ball.

Seems much more likely that this was some unknown idiot shooting in the air and this lady, sadly, just happened to be under where it fell.

[ProfessorGAC]

12. Or Someone With A Horrible Sense Of Distance

He was probably 500 yards away and thought it was 5 miles.

Thanks for the info.
GAC

[Greyhound]

16. LOL! It was a NASCAR rally, wasn't it? n/t

:rofl:

[ProfessorGAC]

26. That's An Explanation I Buy

It's a guy who thought it might be his fault, and he came forward, but it probably wasn't him.

Even then, the Mythbusters thing is stuck in my head. Even if someone shot from the air, i don't see gravity having the impetus to break through the roof and still cause an entry wound.

But, thanks for your support and your info.
GAC

[surrealAmerican]

17. You're right. This story doesn't make sense.

[csziggy]

18. But Mythbusters tested the bullets fired into the air theory

And everyone of theirs came down tumbling with too little velocity to cause a wound. They did their test on the salt flats and all came down flat and only went into the ground an inch or so.

Aha! Here is their explanation:

Bullets fired into the air maintain their lethal capability when they eventually fall back down.

In the case of a bullet fired at a precisely vertical angle (something extremely difficult for a human being to duplicate), the bullet would tumble, lose its spin, and fall at a much slower speed due to terminal velocity and is therefore rendered less than lethal on impact. However, if a bullet is fired upward at a non-vertical angle (a far more probable possibility), it will maintain its spin and will reach a high enough speed to be lethal on impact. Because of this potentiality, firing a gun into the air is illegal in most states, and even in the states that it is legal, it is not recommended by the police. Also the MythBusters were able to identify two people who had been injured by falling bullets, one of them fatally injured. To date, this is the only myth to receive all three ratings at the same time.
http://mythbustersresults.com/episode50

So with a guy firing at a target, it could be plausible for it to maintain enough velocity to injure someone. The "five miles" is more troubling, though the label on the bullets for my .22 pistol claims they can travel over a mile. And WTH kind of target was he firing at? ALL the firing ranges I have seen, including the private one next door, have a significant earth berm to stop any bullet that makes it through the target. The aim would have to be pretty high to completely miss the berm at every one I have visited.

[Fumesucker]

22. Just dropping a 50 cal projectile from a significant height

Would be plenty to penetrate the roof of an RV (think heavy gauge beer can) and cause an entry wound.

In places where celebratory gunfire is common, people being wounded and killed by falling projectiles is a fairly regular occurrence.

I suspect this rifle used a 50 cal machine gun round, I have a friend that made their own rifle from solid stainless for that round and it is far more powerful than most people would even imagine.

Max range on a 50 cal machine gun round is listed as 7450 yards so 8800 is not out of the question.

http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/M107.html

The big round in this photo is a 50 cal, the medium a 30-06 and the small a .223..

[ProfessorGAC]

25. Like I Said, I Am No Gun Expert, But. . .

. . .as another poster said, even Mythbusters tested this and it wouldn't cause this kind of wound after busting through the roof of a vehicle. At least that's what i would think.

And, don't forget, 8800 is a LOT farther than 7500 yds. Lots of time to lose velocity and, therefore, momentum. And, don't forget; the weight of the bullet doesn't change the acceleration due to gravity. Galileo taught us that!

This story smells bad.
GAC

[krispos42]

35. It depends on if it was on a ballistic trajectory or not

If you shoot it straight up, it will fly up several thousand feet, come to a stop, then tumble downwards at terminal velocity, which is probably somewhere in the range of 70 miles per hour. Just guessing, but it's not going to be supersonic. Mythbusters proved that dropped bullets come down sideways, not point-first or tail-first.


However...

If the bullet followed an arc and was fired at about 38º from horizonal then it would maintain a point-forward orientation all throughout it's flight and might well travel as far as five miles.

Because of wind resistance the bullet's trajectory would not be a simple arc. It would shorten drastically as wind resistance slowed it's horizontal path and gravity accelerated it's vertical drop.

Here's a chart




Now 660 ft/s is slow for a pistol bullet, never mind a rifle bullet. A .38 special froma snubnose revolver leave ths barrel at about 750 ft/s, just for a comparison.

However a .50 BMG bullet weights about 5 times a .38 does. If this actually happened, I would wager it was one heck of a thick ceiling the bullet had to smash through.

[DainBramaged]

9. uhhhhhhhhhh

These rifles are capable of hits at ranges exceeding one mile. The heart of the V50SS is the massive tool steel receiver and bolt, machined for bar stock SAE4140 steel.


http://www.vulcanarmament.com/index.html

[krispos42]

36. Yeah, if you're a good enough shot

Hitting a man-sized target at one mile (1,728 yards) is the equivalent of being able to shoot a dime at 155 yards.

[Pavulon]

40. Thats a big IF

having shot 1000yd matches I can say skill and money are required to make that happen. You dont need a 50 cal to do it.

You do need to know what you are doing.

[krispos42]

43. It's a HUGE "if"

In addition to having a good rifle, good ammo, good optics, and good shooting skills you also need to know exactly how far away the target it (the further away it is the smaller your margin of error gets), wind, and you have to start compensating for things like temperature, altitude, and humidity.

[greguganus]

10. Who won the race? n/t

[BlueCollar]

47. Carl Edwards

It was a great day and weekend at the races...

[Are_grits_groceries]

14. Maybe he did fire a round in the air,

and thought gravity was a myth.

[DemoTex]

15. Mr. J. fired five or six rounds at a berm, a mound of dirt, with his .50-caliber Vulcan ..

Then he took a few pot-shots at a couple of American Airlines jets that were on final approach for DFW airport .. "just for sport."

:sarcasm:

Jesus! The 50-cal (12.7mm) anti-aircraft artillery piece was THE weapon of choice of the PVN (NVA) and VC against low-flying aircraft, especially helicopters, in Viet Nam. I know from experience how damn effective the 50-cal is against aircraft. I point this out not to compare Mr. J's single-shot 50-cal Vulcan to a military 50-cal machine gun, but to put the damage potential of the projectile in perspective. One does not hunt rabbits (or even moose) with a 50-cal weapon!


12.7 AAA in Laos

[TheWraith]

41. Those .50 rifles are popular for antimateriel applications.

Things like punching through truck engines.

[underseasurveyor]

19. FIVE Miles?

I don't think so. :/BUZZ: Try again.

[Fumesucker]

23. The range of a standard load 50 cal is 7450 yards..

8800 yards is not out of the question for a custom hand load..

http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/M107.html

[underseasurveyor]

24. Something still stinks

IF the guy was shooting at a berm, as he claims, the arc of the trajectory would be too low for a bullet to travel 5 miles before hitting the ground. And IF 5 miles is possible, and damn that's a quite a distance, he had to be aiming much higher than his I was shooting at a berm story.

[krispos42]

37. 38º above the horizontal

Hardly a common occurance.

[Wilber_Stool]

20. Not likely

A 50 cal. can be used against a visible target at one mile, and harassing fire at three miles. Even if it could travel five miles, it would be on a ballistic trajectory and so would penetrate the wall, not the ceiling. It would have to be deflected upward to be able to enter the RV through the roof and would lose so much energy it would be like throwing it up into the air by hand. He was either closer than he thinks or there's another crazy mother fucker out there.

[jxnmsdemguy65]

21. another reason why one of Obama's first acts...

should be an executive order banning NASCAR and SEC sports :)

[Ilsa]

27. Now, now, lots of good democrats enjoy NASCAR. I don't particularly,

but I wonder if I would be a democrat if it wasn't for my husband, a yellow dog Democrat and ardent NASCAR fan.

[kenny blankenship]

28. for people wondering what kind of bullet they're talking about

It's the one next to the ruler in the left image:

[Catherine Vincent]

29. What the heck is a berm? nt

[ManiacJoe]

30. A large amount of dirt placed against a wall

used as a barrier usually against heat or projectiles.

[Catherine Vincent]

31. Thanks. nt

[50calUSER]

33. WOW!

Ive fired the 50 cal bmg 82 personally. 2850f/s so in a little over 10 sec this bullet traveled 5 miles and penetrated the camper and then struck the woman! possible....Completely!!!!!. ranges are listed for this weapon at 10000ft!! that's not where the bullet will stop that's where its accuracy is inefficient! why is it hard to believe that something that travels true for 10000ft couldn't recklessly travel another 15000ft. further more the lady still has her arm. and the bullet was found and recognizable!! a hit in any extremity within the proven range is certain death!! just a graze from this bullet will kill you!!!! the concussion alone is enough to kill you. this bullet was obviously on its last leg and thankfully the woman wasn't seriously injured given the capability of the weapon. the man claims it was a ricochet off a dirt berm... now i cant comment on whether that is true or not i can state that any significant contact would send the bullet into a tumble which would make it a lot harder for it to travel another 4 miles but the test is still out on the dirt contact. as far as the myth buster theorem that's only if it is shot perpendicular to the earth allowing the bullet to actually have to change directions (meaning it would have to come to a stop before returning to earth) which then it could only reach terminal velocity (660 grains x 9.8m/s^2)= big bruise not arm getting riped open. now if you take gravity plus trajectory then you actually sustain speed with the curvature of the earth a.k.a. "ORBIT" the same thing the space shuttle uses to stay in a constant fall around the earth without using thrust. I'm sorry this was so long but I'm just trying to shed some light on the subject before too many other people post silly comment's like maybe it was only 500 yd away (like you couldn't see a freakin nascar stadium 500 yd away) that's like shooting from your parking spot to the front gate! n e ways feel free to add speculation or if you'd like to debate Oswald I'm up for that too!

[Hawkowl]

34. Welcome to DU! nt

[Pavulon]

38. Having fired thousands if not tens of thousands

of rounds through M2s I can say this story stinks. These rounds have significant drops over flight time. Fired to max range the round requires elevation and that range is not plausible for single shot hits. 2 miles is the outer limit and that includes a drop of tens of feet. They carry tremendous energy and cause massive injuries.

Or this person just got struck by lightning.

[TheWraith]

42. You say an M2... is that a Gepard M2?

Nice rifles.

I tend to agree in theory, but the bottom line is, how many people within any proximity to this event were shooting off .50 cal? If this were any ordinary bullet, I'd say that this was just a random occurence with no link to the guy. But this is a pretty uncommon round. Whether it's a massive random fluke, or this guy isn't telling the complete truth, I'd think that the odds that it's not connected would have to be pretty low.

[Pavulon]

50. Old worn out Browning M2s

ma deuce. Bumped into them in different jobs in the NG. Firing them from a co ax mount was fun. Armory work was not all that fun. Timing them and 240g's removed any enjoyment from firing automatic weapons from my life. Concussion would make me seasick.

They are a pretty basic weapon but have a tremendous range. This person (if this is not bs) is the luckiest and unluckiest person at the same time.

Unlucky to be hit by a 50 bmg downrange lucky to walk away intact. That round usually removes what it hits and shatters people.

[TheWraith]

51. Ah. I should have known better.

Putting thousands of rounds through a Gepard would take a lot more time and effort than putting them through a .50 cal MG.

[Egnever]

46. LOL welcome to DU

Cant believe you registered just for this story, but hey good to have ya. Stick around,

[LisaL]

44. He was target shooting?

Well he must have been way off.

[VOX]

45. A gaping wound; large-caliber weapons; an RV; NASCAR; Texas Motor Speedway -- how RED STATE is this?

Yeeeeee-Haw!!!!! :crazy:

[BlueCollar]

48. very

Trust me...

:hi: from Fort Worth

[orleans]

49. 5 miles? 5 fucking miles? i don't think so....

but santa should probably avoid that area altogether just to be on the safe side.