Jesus Fucking Christ.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

Two days. Two days is all it took for the "oh noes!" crowd to forget every fucking thing that has happened in the past eight years and start focusing entirely on Obama's perceived negatives. "Oh noes, he's going to governs from teh senter!" "Oh noes, it's Rahm OMGWTF!" Shit, we've got people bitching about cabinet appointments he hasn't even announced yet.

Good Lord, give the man a chance. You're not going to like every one of his cabinet picks or every one of his policies or every one of his decisions. He hasn't even become President yet. Jesus Christ, if you're pissed off already you're gonna hate it when he actually starts governing.

Rant fin.

[dionysus]

1. k&R

[ewagner]

2. K&R x 2

[seemslikeadream]

3. Wasn't Jesus Christ Jewish?

[High Plains]

62. Kinky Friedman: "They Ain't Making Jews Like Jesus Anymore"

[awoke_in_2003]

178. "Get the biscuits in the oven...

and your buns in the bed"

[robertpaulsen]

104. Yeah. And it's not Jesus Fucking Christ, it's Jesus Hussein Christ.

I get hung up on details sometimes. :)

[seemslikeadream]

105. I'm hung up on you!

[awoke_in_2003]

179. DUPE. nt

[Le Taz Hot]

4. As a patriotic American

I reserve the right to question MY government. I am not and will not take a loyalty oath.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

8. There's a difference between intelligent, constructive criticism...

...and freaking out, and a small minority of people here are already acting like the damned sky is falling.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[whathehell]

32. Really?

Because the title of your post suggest to me that YOU are the one "freaking out":freak:

[seemslikeadream]

39. freaking out? Jesus Fucking Christ, ya I say he's the one freaking out

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

50. It was an expression of disgust. n/t

[whathehell]

96. Yeah, we got that....It's just that the overstatement added to the

misdirection equated, in the minds of some here, to "freakout"...Have a nice day.

[csziggy]

That is why this will stay DemocraticUnderground - we will continue to question

Our government. I hope the entire country continues to question the actions of the government - if they had done so over the last seven years, Bu$hCo would not have gotten away with so much.

Obama and Biden are perfectly capable of listening to dissenting views and using those voices to improve their administration. So long as the criitcism is constructive, they will use it not ignore it.

I'm looking forward to a responsive federal government.

[IronLionZion]

176. Yeah, you are a real revolutionary patriot.

[madaboutharry]

5. I agree.

One thing people have to get is that President Obama is not going to govern this country from the center of DU.

[Robb]

7. LOL!

That's perfectly put. :thumbsup:

[jhrobbins]

158. Absolutely, and thank God for that

[UnrepentantUnitarian]

42. Amen!

As Jefferson said, we can (and should) "question with boldness," (even the existence of God) but knee-jerk, reactionary thinking without deeper insight is more of a right-wing trait.

[greyseal5]

171. Very well-stated!

[MadrasT]

6. K&R, 'cause I'm sitting here saying...

:wtf: peeps?

And people wondered if DU would die the day after the election if Obama won... :rofl:

:kick:

[billyoc]

9. Were you not here yesterday?

:rofl:

[But....]

11. I totally agree but...

I reserve the right to politely disagree:evilgrin: we are Democrats after all:hi:

[JJ]

12. Way less than two days

more like 18 hours.

The "liberal purity police."

Seems they learned nothing from watching how destructive Bush's ideological purity was.(to their own Party as well as to the nation and world) Appointments that favor ideology over competence are a certain path to failure.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

18. I know, I know.

And the thing with Rahm is particularly stupid because it's way more of a management position than a policy position. To hear some people here tell it you'd think Obama was appointing him Secretary of Bambi Killing.

[TZ]

27. Rahm is also apparantly a good friend as well to Obama

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you want someone you like and trust as your chief of staff?
As someone said above its the liberal purists who look down their noses at the centrists. A dems a dem in my book- especially since its the centrists who really helped elect Obama.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

30. Trust is probably more important to the chief of staff job than any other in the White House.

It's not the sort of thing you can give to somebody solely because of their ideology.

[crispini]

13. Ignore 'em

[NoSheep]

119. Ding

[Deep13]

14. As a previously rabid Hillary supporter, I sometimes think I am the only one around here...

...who has any confidence that Obama knows what he is doing. I think picking Emanuel is completely understandable and even shrewd. Lincoln did the same exact thing. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

[formercia]

15. The trolls are on overtime.

Give the man a chance.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

130. The trolls are definitely on overtime!

[lunatica]

16. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater

That's the Republican kneejerk reaction. Too many people are reacting the same way without realizing that Democrats are at their best when they think and use reason and decency rather than black and white automatic emotional responses.

If Obama governs from the middle it will still be far left to anything Bush/Cheney did. And chances are quite good that he'll actually do some important Progessive things in the process.

If he goes too far Left he'll lose his Congressional backing in 2 years.

And in two years we might be able to overturn the Prop 8s.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

24. I think people would do well to remember the lessons of Clinton's first term.

Clinton, in a lot of respects, was probably to the left of Obama at the start of his term. He pushed too far, too fast, and spent the rest of his term trying desperately not to lose moderate votes to the Republicans, who did eventually win Congress.

[OneBlueSky]

17. I heard someone or other report that Obama's transition team has three criteria . . .

1. bi-partisanship
2. diversity
3. new (minimal retreads from previous administrations)

[bdamomma]

21. I heard the same thing

Obama has alot to clean up give him a chance.

[ProfessorGAC]

22. Well, I Like 2 & 3

Number 1 i don't care about, one way or the other. If he does, fine. If he doesn't fine.

The second is grand, but even Silverspoon did that.

The third is a fantastic idea.
The Professor

[Buzz Clik]

19. Welcome to the asylum

[shadowknows69]

20. K+R

[LWolf]

23. Actually,

Obama's negatives have been out front for me since I first heard him speak at the '04 convention.

I've never pretended that we were ushering in Camelot, or that I expected anything other than a centrist administration from him.

I watched his election night speech with tears. The enthusiasm, the hope, the historic election of a person of color...all that means something to me. I appreciate it. It doesn't mean that I see him in some sort of unrealistic rosy glow. I see him for what he is: a centrist more in line with the DLC than with my wing of the party.

He's simply proving me right.

While I never looked forward to an Obama presidency with hope, I'm willing to give him a chance.

This transition period, through the first 90 days of his administration....I'm willing to give him that much time to earn my support.

The Rahm Emmanuel pick is not exactly a good start. The scales start out against him on day one.

Will he balance them, or even swing the other way, with better choices and actions?

Only time will tell.

[Mari333]

118. well said and ditto n/t

[TZ]

25. Totally agree

I can't wait for the bitching when Obama appoints an OH NOEZ Republican to his cabinet, because I heard he wants to do that.
The man has to work with the other party to get anything PRODUCTIVE done..I think the last two years should prove that.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

26. Of course he's going to appoint Republicans.

I think it's entirely likely he's going to appoint Republicans that the freeper/Jesus freak wing of the Republican party absolutely hates. The more normal human beings we can peel off from the Republican Party, the better. The thought of these idjits nominating Palin for 2012 makes me giddy.

[bullwinkle428]

37. I remember way back around February, in the midst of a strong

3-way primary battle involving Obama, Hillary, & Edwards, and a story came up where Edwards was considering the idea of one or more Republicans as part of a potential cabinet. I also remember the Palinesque screech-owl reaction from some of the "purists" in both the Clinton and Obama camps - "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! HOW CAN HE POSSIBLY DO THAT????"

I then gently reminded them that Bill Clinton had Republicans as part of his adminstration...Bill Cohen, anyone? I was then told that no more Republicans like that even existed anymore within the U.S.! Imagine that!

[Mike 03]

28. THANK YOU! K&R!

[secondwind]

29. my sentiments exactly. I have been saying to the naysayers

'GIVE HIM A CHANCE, FOR PETE'S SAKE"!!!!


We gave the idiot in the White House EIGHT FUCKING YEARS, and we can't give this wonderful humanist a CHANCE?

GIVE HIM A CHANCE!

[Fumesucker]

31. I'm just waiting to see how long it takes President elect Obama

To pick someone from the Democratic wing of the Democratic party.

I suspect he will pick a Republican before that happens.

[TZ]

You see thats EXACTLY what the OP is complaining about

ALL DEMOCRATS are democrats..and when you make statements like that you are no better than the fundie wingnuts in the Republican party that say only THEY are true Republicans.
This party is the big tent party not the only if you think EXACTLY like me party.

[Fumesucker]

40. The Overton Window has moved so far to the right in the last thirty years..

That Richard M Nixon would be a flaming liberal by the standards of today.

Edited to add: If you check my previous posts I think you'll see that I tried hard to be positive and supportive of Obama's campaign, at least on the whole.

I think now that Obama has won the election I have a right to voice my negative opinions since I have mostly stifled them during the campaign for the sake of party unity.

[jonnyblitz]

49. don't let the insipid obama fanboys/girls silence you.

one wonders why they frequent a discussion board if they don't want discussion. fuck them.

[Leopolds Ghost]

167. Agreed. n/t

[UnrepentantUnitarian]

51. "Democratic wing?"

Kind of a loaded phrase, don't you think? Democracy is about inclusion. It's about diversity and maximum participation and involvement in our government. So...what's this Democratic wing you're talkingg about?

[Joe Fields]

54. If, by inclusion you mean allowing all of the corporatists back in,

then by all means, let's stick to the Democratic wing and be a little more exclusionary.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

55. "We" don't get to decide who gets "let in."

When you register to vote, you get to pick Republican, Democrat, independent, etc. Nobody ever gets a message back saying "Thank you for your interest in the Democratic party. Unfortunately we have no need for your services at this time."

[Leopolds Ghost]

168. I dunno, it seems some party leaders send that message to quite a FEW groups out there.

working class whites, "liberal special interests" who are overly
impatient, great society civil rights advocates (they've even asked
Obama to expressly repudiate and denounce them and the programs they
support such as welfare and public housing), etc.

If however you are upscale, socially liberal (but not too liberal)
and economically Tory or conservative, it's open arms.

Rockeferller Repubs are only wanted when they aren't peaceniks.

[kenfrequed]

177. Oh sure...

But to those of us crazy, unhinged, wild-eyed, radical, left wing, fruit bat progressives...

What are we going to get out of this?

Are we going to get a lot of representation here or will it all be pro-corporate DLC types again?

I hear a lot of flack about how this victory isn't just about us progressives. But if it weren't for us agitating constantly against Bush policies Rahm, Ford, and From would be triangulating between the right wing and the moderate wing of the Republican party.

I don't seem to recall the DLC jumping up to resist the drumbeat to war, nor do I recall their resistance to the Bush tax cuts being terribly vociferous, nor was their response to the patriot act nor Bush's attacks on civil liberties full of any fire or fury.

So forgive me if I am less than enthused with the DLC golden boy getting to be COS.

[Fumesucker]

71. The one that has actual liberal/progressive principles..

Rather than RINO principles, like for instance the DLC.

Edited to add: The phrase "Democratic wing of the Democratic party" comes directly from Paul Wellstone via Howard Dean.

http://www.npr.org/programs/specials/democrats2004/transcripts/dean_trans.html

[Leopolds Ghost]

166. well, if Howard Dean won't be reappointed DNC head,

I think we'll see DLC in charge of the party platform regardless of what Obama thinks.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

169. It's been known for months that Dean would be stepping down.

But please, by all means continue your paranoid fantasies.

[Alcibiades]

33. Chief of Staff is perfect for Rahm

He won't be in charge of setting policy, but implementing it. He's competent, and who knows--maybe they will appoint someone more progressive to his seat.

[lunatica]

52. Rahm also brings the DLC into Obama's camp and not necessarily the other way around

Obama thinks for himself. Anyone who doubts that hasn't been paying attention.

[nichomachus]

34. I like turtles n/t

[yodermon]

35. what part of "underground" do you not understand? n/t

[NeedleCast]

36. Two days? It started six hours after Obama become President Elect

[Serial Mom]

38. MEDIA .... arghhhhhhhhhhh!

Felt the same here yesterday even....

Obama has a big job
Can he get it done
Can he keep his promises
Country in wrong direction
yada, yada, yada

But they FAIL TO MENTION what got us here and it is the idiots in the mis-administration for past 8 years who happens to still be IN CHARGE.



:wtf:

[deaniac21]

41. Some of us have to go through a transition too....

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/obama_win_causes_obsessive

:hide:

[whathehell]

43. At the risk of being mercilessly flamed, may I suggest that

whatever the merits of your argument (and they may be sound) Jesus had not a thing to do with it?..And in concluding this, could we, in the interests of respecting Christians here, leave him out of it?

[Arugula Latte]

78. The religious have no qualms about shoving religion down our throats at every opportunity.

Hell, belief in the Omnipotent Sky Fairy is on our money.

So, it seems to me that it's a two-way street.

[whathehell]

79. I think you're talking about the Right wing Fundies...I don't see it

coming from the FAR more numerous mainstream religions.

[Fumesucker]

83. Two words...

Proposition eight.

Unless a lot of mainstream religionists voted for eight, it wouldn't have passed.

[whathehell]

85. I disagree...As one gay du'er pointed out -- Less than fifty-percent

of San Franciscans even bothered to VOTE...It doesn't take a whole lot of fundies to vote it in if "good people" do nothing.

[Fumesucker]

87. Blacks and latinos are generally not fundies as we normally think of them..

And yet I understand that blacks and latinos voted for eight fairly heavily.

And this election had the highest turnout in many decades just about everywhere.

[whathehell]

90. Then maybe it wasn't religious.....Maybe it was cultural.

[Fumesucker]

91. Umm.. Religion is part of culture..

And blacks and latinos tend to be more religious white folks.

Chovexani has an excellent post on this subject from the black point of view on Hamden Rice's thread about Prop 8.

[whathehell]

93. Umm....It's a part....not the entirety.

But I if you need something less amorphous than "culture" Religion can be a scapegoat.:eyes:

[Fumesucker]

114. Like I said, latinos and blacks tend to be *more* religious than whites..

On the average.

Religion is a part of their culture, a bigger part than those who majority voted against Prop 8.

When the more religious culture votes for institutionalized bigotry, we at least have to take a look at whether religion has something to do with that bigotry.

I think it does, you apparently disagree.

For complicated reasons I grew up in both the High Episcopal church and the Southern Baptist church, sometimes going to one and sometimes going to the other. The contrasts between the two are exceedingly stark, Episcopalians are liberal, open minded and thoughtful, Southern Baptists are precisely the opposite.

[readmoreoften]

161. I love how the Christians will use unsupported statistics like this against LGBTs at any chance.

Thanks for showing your true colors.

[Darth_Kitten]

140. Some people are only into fairness for all if "all" means them.

It's okay to bash christians but anyone else, nah, that would be WRONG.

[Darth_Kitten]

139. Yes!

:)

[ExPatLeftist]

163. Yeah, the title to this post sucks.

But IMO not because of anything to do with Jesus.

What bugs me about posts with titles like this is that they give absolutely no indication of the topic. This post tells us someone is pissed off or frustrated. Sounds like about 90% of posts here. I have never understood why people would give a "title" to their rant that does not even hint at what is in there. Usually I ignore posts with such titles altogether, but this had so many recs that I clicked. I agree with the sentiment of the OP, to a certain degree (though I would never try to shut up people with whom I disagree)

I will not rec posts with bullshit titles.

[Joe Fields]

44. Maybe it's because we care.

Maybe it's because decisions like these really matter.


I personally think the Emanuel decision is a big deal. If you don't, then that's your choice. But let's not try to shout down dissent here.

[TransitJohn]

45. Welcome to the Democratic Underground.

:evilgrin: It's been very strange here since around late 2005, in my recollection.

[Historic NY]

46. You want a COS that can herd cats, thats the job besides being

the gate keeper. Many things have been promised and to have a chance of getting some of them done in a timely fashion requires someone who can do the "good cop, bad cop routine". He wants someone to take on Pelosi & Reid, when necessary. Please give it some time.

[Hobo]

47. From your lips to Dog's ears

Amen Brother.


:beer:

:toast:

Hobo

[RedCappedBandit]

48. Don't like it? Don't participate in those threads

In case you haven't noticed, this is DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND.

We are LIBERALS, not "CENTRISTS". Deal with it.

[stillcool]

53. Future events that aren't real...

are the best things to freak out over. Second only to the musings of the people on the tv screen. We didn't elect a President, we elected a pinata.

[TreasonousBastard]

56. As I keep saying, we're fortunate that...

neither DU nor the "netroots" are actually in charge of anything, so whatever they said there can be safely ignored.

Obama's administration will never be perfect by anyone's measure, but he will be a vast improvement over what we've had to deal with for the past eight years.

And that's as good as it ever gets.

[endthewar]

57. DU definitely has a lot of Debbie Downers

Some people on here would complain no matter what happened.

[endthewar]

58. DU definitely has a lot of Debbie Downers

Some people on here would complain no matter what happened.

[curse of greyface]

59. Glass is 1/8th empty damnitt. nt

[Keanna1]

60. Seems like they want him to fail so badly!!!!

:wtf:

How about you give the guy the benefit of the doubt first before you decide he screwed up. He doesn't take office until another 2 months! This is really pissing me off!!!!!!!!!!

[DemoRabbit]

61. I feel EXACTLY the same way. JFC people.

[Chemical Bill]

63. Compared to the last 8 years, the center looks real good. n/t

[Bake]

64. He, it's DU. It's what we do here.

When it's not election season, that is.

Bake

[Waiting For Everyman]

65. They're so used to complaining and being miserable!

It's a habit.

[relayerbob]

66. THANK YOU

[southernyankeebelle]

67. You betcha

Yep, these idiots already a facebook set up for impeach of Obama. Hell give him a chance. Obama has a long hill to climb. But all he has to do is ask us to climb with him. He will have our support as long as he keeps us imformed. Bush only asked us to keep shopping. He will surprise alot of people.

[RoyGBiv]

68. Every silver lining ...

... has its own cloud.

And there are people determined to find it.

A bit of historical perspective:

FDR's first "hundred days" is now something of legend, so deeply ingrained into the national consciousness that every President since has been judged in part by what he has done with his first hundred days. They even seem to plan those days so that they can let the nation know where they will be headed, what they stand for, how they intend to govern. We sometimes call it the "honeymoon" of the Presidency now. The criticism is supposedly less fierce. We're supposed to stand back for a few days and see what happens.

That's a nice story.

After FDR's election and before the transition in administration, many were already talking about how he would have no ability to do anything. His campaign had been empty rhetoric. When the polls closed and the winner was eventually announced, the first thing the public noticed was that the Depression was still there and getting worse. Bank failures were reaching epic proportions. People couldn't eat. This Brahman class elitist couldn't and never would understand the real problems of real people. If he did anything, it would simply be save his rich buddies.

When FDR took office, the first thing that happened was a bank holiday. At the time this was seen by many as necessary, but the public wasn't entirely impressed. In fact, they were rather beside themselves with anger over it, questioning why this man took office and immediately prevented them from being able to access what little money they had left. At the same time FDR got to work on instituting his New Deal measures, to a mixed reception.

One organization in particular, the National Recovery Administration, which had been authorized by the National Industrial Recovery Act of 1933, was eventually declared unconstitutional. While in operation, parts of it worked or had the potential to work. Other parts seemed disastrous, only making the problems worse. The groups initials NRA quickly came to be used for another purpose, to present a different meaning that told of the immediate frustration with the new President:

NRA - Never Roosevelt Again

The real story turned out a bit differently ...

[Soylent Brice]

69. thank you!!!!!!

i just posted something about this too.

i swear, it's like watching Dallas here sometimes.

[arcadian]

70. Yeah, what a shocker, a political discussion board arguing about politics.

What next? Articles on how to lose weight in teen fashion magazines? :eyes:

[CrispyQ]

72. Personally, I never expected Obama to govern from anywhere but the center.

I voted for him because the alternative was too horrid to even contemplate.

I would love to be wrong & watch him take a hard left & embrace liberal principles & implement liberal policies, but I'm not sure that will ever happen in this country again. The corporations & their minions have too much power.

I will be happy if he doesn't nuke anyone, doesn't declare more wars, & doesn't take a sledge hammer to the separation of church & state. Everything else I expect to remain pretty much the same.

[Greyhound]

110. Judging by the state of the nation today, Barry Goldwater was a "centrist"

in 1964. Eisenhower, and Nixon were both "centrist" by this standard and Teddy Roosevelt and Lincoln were communists.

If he does try to govern from this perverted position and doesn't initiate immediate, significant, change he will end up a one term President and the party will fragment into obscurity. I'm not saying that would be a deal breaker but still...

[CrispyQ]

145. Maybe that's what is needed - a re-alignment of both parties.

Both parties have shifted so far to the right. Thanks to a very successful 30 year republican campaign, Americans fear being associated with the word liberal. However, I honestly believe that most Americans are more to the left than they think they are.

I would like to see the true conservatives kick the zealots & neocons out of their party & join up with the DLC & blue dog dems. Then true liberals & populists could form their own liberal party. It's time to take back the word liberal & educate people on exactly what it means. We need to raise the question, why do people resent social programs for those in need, but support tax breaks & subsidies for corporations that are making billions? There is plenty of evidence that shows that many corporations that receive special tax breaks & subsidies from communities don't actually follow through with the jobs they claimed they would create.

I think one of the reasons so many eligible voters don't vote is that there really isn't a party that represents them - a true liberal party. Have you ever read that "Joe Conservative" essay? We no longer have a government that would implement any of the types of social programs in that essay. Our government no longer works for We the People; it works for the corporations. Until we fix that, there will be no liberal party.

I agree with you -- if Obama governs from a 'center' position, which we both agree is now a solidly right position, he will be a one term president.


A Day in the Life of Joe Conservative
http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Essay:A_Day_In_The_Life_of_Joe_Conservative

[Greyhound]

146. Agreed. A realignment or replacement. Just when did the party abandon it's

basic premise of people before profits? I've tried to pin it down and think maybe it was 1968.

Neither party represents it's members any longer, we are just a nuisance that they have to mollify every other year in order to carry on with their plans. Look at how many policies have been implemented in direct opposition to the overwhelming wishes of the people, then look at the results of those policies, and still the politicians insist on continuing them even though they've been proven to be utter failures.

We have to stop deluding ourselves and understand that we must take back our power. Until we do, nothing will get better for regular people, they will expend every drop of our resources propping up the parasites and leave us to starve and fight in the streets.

[greyseal5]

173. I don't need Obama to swing hard left

I just need him to be a decent human being who has respect for the Constitution and rule of law.

He has made me and millions of others no longer feel ashamed to be an American. The rest of the world is overjoyed and ready to stand with us again. Just this alone will give us the strength and the will to get back up and heal ourselves.

This is a victory of the spirit. We can work out the details as we go along.

At least now we can disagree with our President from a standpoint of strength and respect rather than mewling victimhood.

[CrispyQ]

188. Respect for the Constitution would include

repealing the odious parts of the Patriot Act, reinstating habeas corpus & restoring the 4th Amendment to what it is supposed to be. I will be greatly surprised, albeit pleased, if any of these things happen.

[leftofthedial]

73. You are soe rite!

We have noe business criticizing a fellow Democrat for anything. What's soe bad about the senter anyway? It's just a leetle ways to the right of where Nixon was. There's noe problem with that, is there?

Wanting to increase the size of the military and expand our military presence in the Middle East and expand NAFTA and stuff isn't anything to squabble about at this great moment in history.

I say we should just shut the hell up until after Obama's first term. That's what I say. Instead of complaining about Obama, we should spend our time remembering every fucking thing that has happened in the past eight years!

When it comes to caring what Obama, or any other Democrat for that matter, does, we should all JUST SAY NOE!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

74. Two days.

That's all I'm saying. It's been two days, and already people are flipping out.

[leftofthedial]

75. how many days should we wait to talk about who and what Rahm Emanuel

(or any other upcoming appointee) is?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

82. Do you know what a President's Chief of Staff does?

Rahm will have less to do with policymaking in his new job than he does in his current one. His new job is to implement, not make, policy.

[leftofthedial]

84. and to exert more control over the President's agenda than anyone else,

including the President.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

86. This is beyond insane.

If Obama's Chief of Staff is setting policy independent from his boss, we've got bigger problems than Rahm.

[leftofthedial]

88. I didn't say anything about setting policy.

I said controlling the agenda. Who gets in? Who doesn't get in? What meetings are scheduled? What meetings are not scheduled? Huge role in hiring and firing.

Chief of Staff is a very powerful and influential position.

Making the heart of the DLC his first appointment has troubling symbolic significance if nothing else.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

95. Well then God help us when he appoints a Republican to a policy position.

It's going to happen. And it's not the end of the world either.

[leftofthedial]

106. by the time it gets to Cabinet picks

there will be a context. I fully expect him to name one or two repukes to policy positions.

the first big appointment carries symbolic weight though.

this was basically a big "fuck you" to anyone anywhere on the left.

[K Gardner]

135. That's such ABSOLUTE BS I can't even look at it without laughing. So, now

you can read the President-Elect's mind and discern that he was telling us all to FUCK OFF.

Unbelievable.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

81. When you have something constructive to say. n/t

[leftofthedial]

89. by "constructive" they mean

something they don't disagree with and something that doesn't challenge their faith.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

97. By "constructive" I mean...

...something like the first line of the body of post #94. You know, something actually relevant.

[leftofthedial]

107. it's not relevant that Obama named his chief of staff?

or it's not relevant that the new chief of staff is a leader of the DLC?

or the DLC is not relevant?

I don't see belief that any of those is irrelevant would be constructive.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

112. OK, I give up.

It's terrible - TERRIBLE that Obama named a moderate Democrat - part of the leadership of his party in Congress, and from his home state, someone whom he feels he can trust, to a non-policy position in his administration. TERRIBLE, I tell you! Where will it end?

[leftofthedial]

124. making his first high-profile appointment from the DLC

does not represent meaningful change.

I'm just sayin'.


But it does go right along with Joe Biden as VP.

What kind of change do you think the DLC represents? I mean read their website. Look at their membership. It's the same "democrats" who've been get along go along with the repukes for a generation now.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

142. Sorry.

I'm pretty sure he tried to get the person he thought was right for the job, not the person who would piss off the netroots the least. Geez, get over yourselves.

[leftofthedial]

143. just get over it?

is that really what you're saying?

we should never discuss or god-forbid criticize any decision St. Obama ever makes?

You're a fool.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

144. This is getting ridiculous.

we should never discuss or god-forbid criticize any decision St. Obama ever makes?

You're entitled to do whatever you want to do, and I'm entitled to say that I think you're being ridiculous.

[jhrobbins]

160. You know-for some reason this reminds me of one of the West WIng

episodes. It was the one where Josh finds out there is a website called LemonLimon and it is dedicated to all things Josh Limon. He is flattered and begins to communicate with the members of the site, much to the chagrin of CJ and Donna. They warn him what is likely to happen, but Josh is convinced that since it is dedicated to him, he can say what he wants and his minions will understand. Well, if you've seen it, you know what happens - he is soundly flamed about his own ideas and policies. It feels like that in here sometime:
1. You can't win for losing and,
2. No good deed goes unpunished.
3. There is NO room for compromise - it's their way or the highway. Period!

I especially loved it when CJ (or Donna) tell him that the moderator is likely a recluse in a moo moo and slides, smoking Pall Malls, surrounded by 15 cats. (or words to that effect)

[leftofthedial]

182. who said anything about the "highway" (even metaphorically)?

It is perfectly legitimate to criticize the actions of our elected officials. They work for us. We worked hard to get them elected. If they do something that you or I or any other American takes issue with, it is not the place of some self-appointed gang of party dogma enforcers to tell us to shut up. That is so wholly unamerican that it is insulting to think it comes from DU.

Disagree if you wish, contribute to the discussion if you wish, but take your "love-it-or-leave-it" attitude back to the right wing of the Fifties and Sixties where it belongs.

[jhrobbins]

185. I'm not sure you read my post because it said nothing like what you

have represented here. On the contrary, I was disagreeing with the my way or the highway mentality.

[Critters2]

77. Actually, I was bitching about this during the primaries. nt

[road2000]

80. Two Words: Supreme Court. n/t

[defendandprotect]

102. The right-wingers are young and able and rabid --

and I predict that Obama will bow to right and make moderate appointments --

[Martin Eden]

92. Amen, K&R, n/t

[ItNerd4life]

94. Ramm Emanuel was a NAFTA supporter. Where is the change?

He's a Chicago politician, who is difficult to work with. But that's exactly what the Chief of Staff's role is, working with people.

We can criticize if we want. But just because some of us don't like this pick, doesn't mean we're going to hate it when he starts governing. Talk about generalities.

Also, as someone said earlier, what does Jesus Christ have to do with it?

[Interceptor7]

128. Rahm is not President -elect

Barack Obama is. Emanuel is there to round up support for the Obama administration's agenda, not Clinton's or anyone else's.

[byronius]

98. Funny thing --- I trust Obama. He's thinking through everything.

I'll stay in that space for quite some time, I suspect.

He has to forge a strong governing coalition.


Fine by me, as long as he's at the top of it.

[defendandprotect]

101. DLC is NOT "thinking things through" .. it's selling-out to corporate/elites...

[defendandprotect]

99. Why do you hate our freedoms..????

[TexasObserver]

100. You can't expect worriers to stop worrying.

I'm giving Obama a blank check until at least July 4, 2009.

He's earned it.

I'll have my opinions about things he does or doesn't do, but he's got carte blanche, as far as I'm concerned. He's in charge. He knows his plan. He's a smart, dedicated man with good principles. I'll take my chances.

[RiverStone]

103. kicking this for making lots of sense

:hi:

[WildEyedLiberal]

108. Hey stranger

If you're expecting sanity, you took a wrong turn on the internet tubes, methinks...

:hi:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

109. Pay no attention to my rantyness in this thread.

It wasn't me. I give Anni my computer for ONE HOUR and all hell breaks loose! Obviously I hate Rahm and everything he stands for.

Hope you had fun in Indiana. Looks like it was worth it. Woohoo! Wish I could've been there!

:hug:

[WildEyedLiberal]

111. Zose craaaaazy Germans....

:rofl:

Indiana was great - it felt nice to play my tiny little part in GOTV the vote and turning Indiana blue.

Yeah, I knew it would be literally less than a day after Obama's election before the purity brigade came out to whine that he isn't "Democratic" enough. Whatever, I'm not gonna let them harsh my mellow.

Cheers mate! :hug:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

113. May your mellow remain un-harshed! n/t

[Stand and Fight]

115. Kicked and recommended.

Because this needed to be said, and, unfortunately, will probably need to be said a great many more times.

[noamnety]

116. This is what we heard in 2006

When we took control of the senate. We said "we think we have a problem, based on what pelosi is saying she is going to do.

People apparently had some kind of time frame we had to feel jubilant for before we allowed to speak out. So we tried to be jubilant as required. Meanwhile, Iraqi civilians were still being kills, US soldiers were still getting killed. But, you know, we weren't allowed to talk about any of that.

I think it's healthier to keep our voice. Better to try to influence things before they happen instead of looking at the mess on the floor and muttering, yeah, I thought that might happen.

[tigereye]

117. yup. It's incredible isn't it?

After the 8 years of hell, you would think people would be riding the glow and thinking positive for just a few more weeks. ;)

[Zomby Woof]

120. Not many listened to his victory speech

He said he would make decisions people would disagree with or be disappointed with - which is a mature and realistic assessment that the purists can't wrap their little reactionary brain stems around.

[Joe Fields]

123. 'little reactionary brainstems'?

Just so you know, I watched his speech. I also recall him saying that there would be no retreads in his administration. Less than 24 hrs. later that turned out to be a lie. It's one thing to make mistakes. It's another to lie to us. Not just a little lie, either. He intended to have Emanuel as his Chief of Staff before his speech. His is an intential pulling of the party to the right.

Some of us here can actually see what's happening. Some of you need to pay attention.

[RufusTFirefly]

121. Don't worry everybodeeeee! Clean Coal will solve all our problems!

[Hekate]

122. KnR. Good luck with this one, yibbe. I think some of these folks are crazy & self-destructive.

I predicted this weeks ago, and take no pleasure in how true it has turned out to be. Even if Obama actually turned out to be the Messiah, some would find cause to complain and eventually history would repeat itself. In other words, I'm glad he's not the Messiah--we all know how it turned out for the first one.

I've decided that Barack Obama is a trustworthy human being and that I will wait to see what unfolds. He's got a huge job just cleaning up the Republican mess, a huge job trying to move an agenda forward, and a huge job dealing with what happens on a daily basis. It's absolutely monumental. The Republicans will try to block him at every turn -- why the hell should any Democrat worthy of the name add their weight to that?

I'VE GOT YOUR BACK, BARACK.

WHO'S WITH ME?

Hekate

[motocicleta]

125. I hate to do it, but

I totally, 100% agree with yibbehobba. One time only.

I am as left as anyone here, but I am adult enough to know that isn't why Barack was elected, and to not expect that he will rule from the left. We need to be ecstatic with the historic implications of his election right now, and ecstatic that we now have a government that will no longer torture, rape the environment, shit on civil rights, and funnel the wealth of the many to a privileged few. He's not a big leftist. It's okay. If he came out in January and tried to pull a ton of leftie stuff like I want, such as universal health care and gay marriage and ultra wealth distribution, we'd be looking at a supreme ass-kicking in 2010. We need baby steps, and hope, and about 20 years of Dem control to pull us out of the * nightmare, not ultra left solutions RIGHT NOW.

Chill.

[uppityperson]

126. I heard this today "he promised... and he hasn't yet". omg, he's not even in office yet!

Of course, this was a person who couldn't name Canada and Mexico as USA neighbors

[Mampula]

127. K & R

[grantdevine]

129. That's the left for you, love it or leave it.

Nothing will ever be enough for some, that's just how it is.

[WilliamPitt]

131. I title (and sentiment) from my very own heart

:toast:

[Ladyhawk]

132. I noticed. It's time for me to bow out again.

Have a nice time flaming each other. I won't be around to stoke the flames.

[Chorophyll]

133. K and effing R.

nt

[Withywindle]

134. can we at least wait until the man is sworn in?

He can't do jack shit until January. Right now, my main worry is hoping he'll survive the Freeper hate to get to that point.

[TWiley]

136. Isn't that Jesus fucking H Christ?

You are right. The Republithugs suddenly want bi-partisanship in the worst way trying to challenge Obama to stack his cabinet with republican bastards.

Lincoln and Kennedy tried that one ...... and evil won both those debates. Bush did not allow any opportunity for opponets to trade on inside information because he knows how dangerous his party really is.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

170. H for Hussein?

[TWiley]

184. no ... the expression is much older than your reference

[WillyT]

137. Word...

:banghead:

[bridgit]

138. There'll be lots of broken hearts in the very near future...

Rachel was asking out loud if we're looking at the 3rd term of Bill Clinton taking shape...now *that's* gonna make Clinton haters chew their own hands off to the extent it occurs. Too many people asked too few questions preferring hoops & pom-poms over answers, entering & exiting black SUV's behind teethy waves & Ray-bans over busting a sweat, naw...

The country is fucked up, the world is even worse shape; and the really heavy lifting hasn't even produced a grunt yet. And to say, "Bless Bless America, she'll need it!!" will get your flamed.

Whether it's understood or not, it's morning in America every morning always has been. Welcome to the sausage factory :):(

[GeorgeGist]

141. Now is not the time to question the audacity of hope.

[Catamount]

147. Another kicking---you're so right!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

148. Two days in and some semi-literate starts a thread with vile profanity title. Grow up.

[damonm]

149. THIS!

What you said +50. K'ed & R'ed

[mrsadm]

150. Hear Hear! k&r

[elizfeelinggreat]

151. Error: you can only recommend threads

which were started in the past 24 hours.

[Bette Noir]

152. Obama was never the most liberal person in the Senate,

only the most liberal person who could be elected President. Important distinction.

Myself, I'm looking forward to being governed from the center, instead of from the radical fundie hard right.

I'm sure President Obama will eliminate toture, close Guantanamo, and end the war in Iraq. I think he has a 50/50 chance of getting his health plan through, which isn't great, but it's better than nothing. Amy more than that will be gravy. I don't think the promised tax cut is coming; we're just too broke, as a nation.

I don't care about Rahm's appointment as Chief of Staff. One could easily see the appointment as a way of hamstringing Rahm's legislative agenda; I'll withhold judgement for lack of evidence.

[Highway61]

153. BIG K & R

I been ratcheted up for way too long to start seeing this shit start again on the boards here. AMEN to your post...I felt a huge sense of relief when Obama got elected....so happy.
Some folks just don't tire from the negativity....Thanks for bringing this up

[cliffordu]

154. The next 4 years are going to be the agonies of hell if these crybabys and

panic trolls don't sack up and let the smartest, most capable people to ever run for political office in the history of the WORLD run his show.

[Orsino]

155. "Give the guy a chance" rarely turns out well, when it comes to presidents.

At least recently.

We are so hungry for change, we want it now, even before Obama takes office. We know, from tragic experience, that letting The man get away with anything, even for a moment, guarantees the permanent loss of another freedom. Or of money. Or self-respect.

Please pardon the DUers who are still jumpy, and consider it a measure of how epically government has failed us, rather than of some failing on our part.

We aren't your enemy, either.

[FlaGranny]

156. Don't you know it?

DU never changes. It's regular as clockwork. Just about every once-revered Dem has fallen from grace here. Some DUers never stop to think that there is a REASON that their perfect candidate never gets elected - the reason being that their perfect candidate is only perfect for them and a small percentage of the rest of the population. There are nowhere near enough of them to get that perfect candidate elected, thus we get someone like Ralph Nader running and getting support from them.

It's going to get nasty around here, like always. I know it is annoying and when it gets too bad I don't come around too much, but, you know what? - without the real lefties pushing back against the far right where would be be now?

[WI_DEM]

157. It has shocked me, too.

[texastoast]

159. "Give the man a chance"

I can't tell you how many times I had to say this to right-wingers in response to their idiotic email assertions. And now, to left-wingers???

Fuck, people. Get a grip.

At first especially, it will not be a clean, green, granola administration (much as I would like it to be). The nation who elected him is not ready for that. It wasn't just progressive lefties who voted for him by any stretch of the imagination.

We need to remember this AND let him know what we think in a productive manner.

Otherwise, it looks kind of troll-y.

[readmoreoften]

162. STOP NOW! OR WE'LL LOSE THE ELECTION!

Oh wait. What part of "held our noses" was not understood? If the people don't press Obama for what they want, he'll move to the right to gain the votes of more right wing people.

Obama came out for NAFTA after being against it.
He came out for the war after being against it.
He's wishy-washy on almost everything.

I think he's a great symbol and a great unifying speech giving and I'm glad that he got Democrats elected and he seems like a nice guy but I don't trust him to represent the interests of progressives as far as I can throw him.

[Leopolds Ghost]

172. I agree. But he is a great symbol of victory for all African Americans, and that's good.

[readmoreoften]

187. It's fantastic. I'm still not going to stop pressuring him to avoid the DLC.

African-Americans deserve more than a symbolic victory. They deserve a real representative who'll set things right.

[ExPatLeftist]

164. Sorry, but IMO time limits (both min and max)

should not be put on people with regard to them stating their opinion.

"Just two days!" sounds to me a bit too much like "Get over it - Bush was crowned 3 months ago!"

People have differeing ideas of what is important to them, and go at different speeds.

I say live and let live, and therefore I do not tell others what they "should" post or when.

[Divine Discontent]

165. people can discuss posts all they want. some people throw curse words up on post titles

and that's your prerogative to be angry, but when it's done, I expect it to be some major event had happened... not some DUers whining or even merely griping about possible choices. move on.

[greyseal5]

174. I don't need Obama to swing hard left

I just need him to be a decent human being who has respect for the Constitution and rule of law.

He has made me and millions of others no longer feel ashamed to be an American. The rest of the world is overjoyed and ready to stand with us again. Just this alone will give us the strength and the will to get back up and heal ourselves.

This is a victory of the spirit. We can work out the details as we go along.

At least now we can disagree with our President from a standpoint of strength and respect rather than mewling victimhood.

[darkism]

175. Rec'd for truth. n/t

[quickesst]

180. Because ....

...the "If I were president" crowd thinks it's easy to run a country. What you want to do, and what you can do are miles apart. If it were easy, we wouldn't need a man like Obama to fix this shit the repugs have gotten us into. Thanks.
quickesst

[Beregond2]

181. I suspect a lot of the hysteria on this board comes from

people who don't remember a time before Reagan. They are so used to polarized politics, they freak out at anything remotely centrist or bipartisan. But most of the best achievements of the Democratic Party happened under presidents that many people here would consider much too far to the right.

I understand the frustration. I am instinctively far to the left of most of my party myself. But I also realize that in this country, you don't get things done except from the center. So I am far more willing to be patient, and to allow for positions and appointments that aren't ideologically to my taste.

What matters is the arc of history, and that bends toward the liberal. Even if Obama does not achieve a tenth of what progressives would like, the mere fact of his election takes this country ten giant steps down the road. When we are feeling frustrated, we need to remember that.

[G_j]

183. I thought he wanted to know what we think? we already had

a dictator who doesn't care what we think.

I've had enough of being told to shut up.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

189. Who is telling you to shut up?

I'm not telling you to do anything. Lord knows you're never going to get the netroots to shut up. Not shutting up is what they do best. But I do kinda get the feeling that certain people around here would rather yell than get things done, and that's the attitude I dislike.

[apocalypsehow]

186. PUMA.

That is all.

P.S. - Rec.

Edit: P.S.S. - can't Rec after 24 hours, but my heart was in the right place.