Just a thought.

[Soylent Brice]

I expect some folks here won't "take too kindly" to what I'm about to say, but I have to say it. I can only assume that some people may try to screw with me because of my post count, even though I have been lurking here for years. Well, here it goes...

Already, in less than 48 hrs, I have already begun to see a few posts here and there regarding Obama, and people being concerned. "He's not far left enough", "he's going to be a centrist", etc.

My thought on that are as follows:

1. he just won the election, and we're already starting this doubt shit. WTF.

2. this is why we never get anywhere as democrats, because we don't work together. for once we finally did, and Obama was elected. coincidence? i think not.

3. why is it so hard for us to trust this man to choose his own cabinet, when it was such an easy decision to trust him enough to donate like hell to him?

can't we just back him up? how about that? how about we all have the patience needed, and provide him the support he will need. we don't know exactly what he is thinking, and why he is vetting the people he is for these positions, but i for one certainly trust his ability to make an educated, calculated, and wise decision, with this.

when he starts appointing republicans to head up the EPA (or some other similar idiotic scenario), i'll start worrying. we clearly need to remain on watch, and remain vigilant through these times. just because he has a (D) next to his name doesn't make him perfect, and following blindly like sheep is the way of the fucking rethugs, but UNITY is the key here. that's how we got here, and that's how we'll keep him in there for 8 yrs.

just a thought. please be gentle...

[notadmblnd]

1. How does Swartzanegger sound to you for head of EPA?

Just read an article from Dec 2007 where Obama said he could consider him. What do you think?

[Soylent Brice]

3. i hadn't heard that

do you have a link i can check out?

[notadmblnd]

12. Its down thrad in GD a little let me see if I can find it

[notadmblnd]

13. here you go.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/12/obama-says-hed.html

[Soylent Brice]

15. thank you!!!!!!

[Soylent Brice]

17. just read that

and i'd like to hope that he's just fucking with the MSM. can't bitch until we know what happens.

in the meantime i need to start writing a letter.

[Soylent Brice]

19. just saw this

http://www.masslive.com/us-politics/index.ssf/2008/11/o...

i think this would be a much more likely scenario.

[leftofcool]

4. And according to one radio station in CA

Arnie is on his way to DC. I hope it was just a radio station joke.

[leftofcool]

2. As much as we may like our new prez, he is not a God, he is still

a politician and needs to be constantly checked by those who gave him his job. That would be us. He works for us, we don't work for him and we can not afford to go through another 8 years where we do not check and question what our leaders are doing and to whom.

[UnrepentantUnitarian]

6. True enough!

But, in that checking and questioning process, I hope we'll all try to be less cock-sure and self-righteous about our own positions than the Neocons were.

[leftofcool]

7. Naw, we are just as cock-sure as they are

and self righteous as well. The difference is, Dems are more apt to see both sides of a given situation.

[Soylent Brice]

11. fuckin a!

[Soylent Brice]

9. i totally agree their needs to be oversight

that much is certain, and always will be, considering what we just went through the last 8 yrs.

my thing is that these are all hypothetical picks at this point.

too much speculation, etc. it just seems weird that the in-fighting has already started.

[Soylent Brice]

10. i totally agree their needs to be oversight

that much is certain, and always will be, considering what we just went through the last 8 yrs.

my thing is that these are all hypothetical picks at this point.

too much speculation, etc. it just seems weird that the in-fighting has already started.

[Pacifist Patriot]

16. I do believe the OP said just that in conclusion.

It's speculative criticism that is counterproductive. Why assume the worst? Wastes energy and focus.

[Soylent Brice]

18. you articulate much better than i do

i guess my whole post could have been summed up in one sentence...

lol

[Pacifist Patriot]

22. Ha! People do that to me all the time. I spend too much time drafting a...

post only to have someone come along and sum it up in one or two brilliant sentences. All that time I could have had back. Oy!

[Soylent Brice]

23. hey, i appreciate it!

if someone else can simplify what i'm trying to get across, then i'm all for it!!

[Pacifist Patriot]

34. Agreed

[stillcool]

25. I'm sure there are many here..

who do not like our new President. Be that as it may, should we wait until he actually does something to criticize, or should we be critical of anything remotely possible that has not yet occurred?

[Soylent Brice]

30. yet another excellent example

of someone putting my thoughts into words.

thank you!

[But....]

5. Take all of that with a grain of salt...

O.K. maybe a pound:evilgrin: I really think it's just that every one here is still in hyper mode from the election, and of course we all like to over analyze every move:bounce:

[Soylent Brice]

14. i hope that's it

i can understand still be unhinged due to the last few months, but i myself felt a huge relief wash over knowing that the next (at least) 4 yrs would actually turn around.

[ogneopasno]

8. If people want overnight change, they should pick up a fucking gun and foment some revolution. Until

then, change is going to come slowly. We're turning the battleship around, and they don't stop on a dime.

[Two Americas]

20. backing him up

In a representative democracy we have a patriotic duty to speak out. It is not "support" nor backing anyone up to be sycophants and "yes men." If Obama is going to listen to all of the people, including Republicans, then why should we be calling for the silencing of voices from the Left? Is this what winning means? We were told that we needed to be silent for the purpose of winning the election, and that once the election was over we would again be free to express our opinions and discuss the issues. However, within hours of the victory it was open season on Leftists once again, worse than ever and the calls for suppression of freedom of speech and dissent began. Of course people will say "no, no, no we are not trying to suppress free speech! Just be quiet and there will be no suppression of free speech."

The Democratic party won because we do tolerate dissent and vigorous discussion, not because we all got in lockstep. Let's leave that group think approach to the right wingers. The people have spoken, and they have rejected that approach.

Dissent is not disloyalty. Tolerance of dissent is not weakness. Blind loyalty is not support.

[Soylent Brice]

24. i'm not saying we need to be silent

i'm saying that nothing is in stone yet, and everything is "in the talks".

upthread Ahnuld was mentioned, but in other posts RKF Jr is being touted as the decision. I'm saying we need to give the man a chance, and stay vigilant. our voices need not be silenced, but we all must admit that we are all a little too paranoid after the last eight years.

[Two Americas]

26. good

Everything is in the talking stage. So we talk.

Vigilance is not paranoia. We have in general been too complacent, not too alarmist over the last ten years.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

21. You're Right, But Things Are Going To Get Really Bad Here.

We have lots of members here and most are reasonable and intelligent. We unfortunately also have groups of those who are so idealistic, zealous, closed minded, selfish or otherwise obsessed with bitterness and complaining, that they will never be satisfied and will always find cause to bitch about. They are loud and repetitive, so they appear to be larger in number than they really are in the scheme of things here. But they will make their presence known quite well and once Obama is sworn in, I can guarantee you that some of them will attempt to destroy his character in every way they can and bitch about every possible flaw they see in him that isn't perfectly meshed to their idealistic and ignorant view of how things should be.

Things will get tough here, but I appreciate your words. You're absolutely right and I'm glad you're here. I hope you choose to post more often in the future, because once Obama is sworn in we will need as many people voicing things rationally as possible to help overcome the irrational rantings of the loud and repetitive group that only know how to complain.

[Soylent Brice]

27. hi mindcrime!!

i agree with you wholeheartedly. being closed minded on whether your dem or rethug is a bad thing. i just wish people didn't turn on him like a pack of wolves before he even gets out of the gate. we tned to shoot ourselves in the foot too often.

i just got into an argument with my best pal yesterday (big time progressive like myself). it was over ethanol vs solar to gain energy independence. he argued that we should go with ethanol to gain quicker independence of foreign oil. i argued the point that if we have our chance now we should implement something more progressive such as solar technology, and quoted the Cornell/Berkley research study that showed that it takes more energy to produce ethanol than the amount we would gain. we both agree about gaining energy dependence, but he feels that we need something like ethanol to make it happen quicker. this argument is a perfect example of how we can have discussion about what bneeds to be done, but what we are not doing is arguing whether Obama is going to go centrist, or leave behind the progressives that helped get him there. what we are discussing are options that would have never even been a possibility or choice before. we're able to have the debates that really need to take place. Obama needs to be in check like every other leader, but we're already beginning to act like we're abandoning him.

that's how it seems, at least.

[Two Americas]

28. hey OMC

Things need not get really bad.

I am going to speak out against inroads of right wing ideas and compromise. I promise that I will do that calmly and rationally, and will not engage in personal attacks or ugliness.

The people have spoken. They have rejected Reagonomics and the growing tendency toward authoritarian rule and a police state. We squander that mandate from the people if we do not continue to speak out against those right wing and corporate forces, under whatever guise they appear. The pressures from corporate interests and right wing media on President Obama will be immense. We need to let him know that there is a counter-balancing force out here. That will not hurt him, it will help him. It is not disloyalty, it is the proper form that support should take in a representative democracy.

The danger here is that we create a "big tent" that welcomes all of the powerful and conservative voices in, while excluding our own dissidents and critics. That would render this historic win meaningless, and while perhaps this would seem good on the short run, it will box in the administration and weaken it in the long run.

[Soylent Brice]

31. the big tent is not the concept being conveyed

i in no way wish to see a single republican in his cabinet either. what i do want is to see what he realistically plans on doing. once he has more concrete picks that begin to materialize THEN we should be ready to rip it a new one (if necessary) and write letters, and make those phone calls. like i said, we're less than 48 hrs into this.

[Two Americas]

32. how about neither?

I do not plan on ripping anyone a new one, nor in remaining silent. "Less than 48 hours" is not relevant. It is the latest in a long line of excuses for telling critics to be quiet - we don't have a candidate yet, we do have a candidate now, we need to win an election, we need to give them a chance...

If the critics are silenced, democracy dies. Then it will not matter who "wins." We have just lived through 8 years of "for us or against us" thinking. Enough. The public has rejected that approach.

[TahitiNut]

29. I don't vote for an autocrat; I vote for a democrat. "We The People" are PARTICIPANTS, not mere ...

... followers. Obama's GREATEST campaign message (IMHO) was his focus on the PROCESS of governance in a democracy where the People participate in their own governance. It has been his primary campaign theme - indeed, his primary stance in everything he's done, including community organizing.

I'm not interested in selecting some grab-bag autocrat whose preferences across a whole array of issues must be accepted. That's the kind of bullshit that the GOP has pushed and I reject it. That's how Fascism gains control.

[Two Americas]

33. amen

Tyranny springs from a public mood, from the temptation to submit to lockstep thinking and blind loyalty. Tyranny does not have a "D" nor an "R" after it.

[Hobo]

35. Dude/Dudette, I could not agree with you more

I understand the point of keeping one's feet to the fire however, let the man pick his cabinet and take the oath first before we start ripping him.

Just because CNN says "a source" is saying Obama is thinking about X for this and Y for that doesn't, as we all know, mean it's true. Plus we know campaigns use the press as trial balloons to gauge opinion.


Relax for a few days. Enjoy the victory.

Don't get unhinged, Yet

Hobo

:beer:

:toast: