Obama looks to Lugar, Hagel, Gates -- will someone IM me when the "change" part starts?

[nichomachus]

CNN is reporting that Obama is looking to name Hagel, Lugar, and Gates to his transition team -- and there's talk he may keep Gates on at Defense. Rahm is his COS and Powell is going to be a top adviser and may get a job (if he wants it, Obama says).

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/06/obama.transition/index.html

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not seeing dancing-in-the-street type of change. I'm as glad as anyone that the Bush Crime Family is being shoved off stage, but I'm seeing a lot of the old inside-the-beltway faces, aligned with the K-Street lobbyists, entering from stage right.

When does the "new day" begin?

[tabatha]

1. Obama is change.

He sets the policy - he gets a united, experienced team to implement it.

[Leopolds Ghost]

17. WTHeck does that mean?

[defendandprotect]

121. ..it means he's ignoring reality and hopes you won't notice --!!

[damonm]

130. RTFP.

[mikelgb]

2. yeah! don't any bones get thrown to the left?

[GreenPartyVoter]

10. No. We always knew Obama was a centrist. We always knew he was going to reach out to the repubs. So

no reaching out to the left, unless you count RFK Jr. as head of the EPA.

[Leopolds Ghost]

19. Centrist? Try right of Clinton.

This is why I never came out and supported the man, and left DU after he voted for FISA until the election was over.

Kerry was a "centrist" with a liberal bent. Someone a liberal could see doing something positive.

Obama and his Treasury adviser, Larry summers, supports giving more money to Wall St. That puts him right of Coolidge.

[GreenPartyVoter]

26. It is unfortunate he didn't tap Paul Krugman for the job, but as you say

that's not the direction he leans in.

[Romulox]

30. Actually, it puts him to the right of Ben Stein, too. nt

[TZ]

126. OMG Obama's a freeper!

:sarcasm: :eyes:
Liberals are 17% of the population. Obama made his stance of governing ALL early on. Stop being so whiny- y'all DLC haters remind me of the fundies who want to kick out of their party anyone who disagrees with them.

[Romulox]

131. What's a few TRILLION of taxpayer money to Wall Street, right? Quit being such a whiner!

:puke:

[...of J.Temperance]

201. Agreed on all issues there

I knew this would happen, I knew days after the election these so-called "Progressives" would turn on President Obama, in fact it was the so-called "Progressives" who caused the trouble for President Clinton....and sadly they're going to try and cause trouble for President Obama.

Which is another reason why Rahm Emanuel is WH CoS, he's a pitbull, he saw so-called "Progressives" dissing President Clinton and trying to undermine the Clinton Agenda....so Emanuel sure as hell isn't going to let them try and mess it up for President Obama.

I make a distinction between Liberals and "Progressives"....Liberals aren't the Left-Wing, Liberals and Centrists frequently work together....the "Progressives" are the Left-Wing and they are a TINY minority in the Democratic Party....just ask their leader Dennis Kucinich, a man that the majority of the party doesn't even listen to EVER.

[bobbolink]

64. We're just that ugly "leftist fringe", donchaknow....

Kinda like last weeks garbage...

So much for reclaiming our nation, eh?

:cry:

[Leopolds Ghost]

109. Watch as the wealthier younger Trustafarians in the coalition sideline liberals their own age

As "trifling" and unnecessary members of a coalition who don't know how the game is played and are not productive parts of the new movement to support Obama they are trying to shape.

[...of J.Temperance]

202. "Trustafarians"....what are you JEALOUS?

Sounds like it.

There's nothing wrong with Trust Funds, I'm a Trust Fund kid....and I've spent a lot of time and money on charitable causes.

Sounds like you're bitter and have some Classwar jealously issue going on.

Thankfully the majority of people out in society don't agree with people like you.

This is a forum to SUPPORT Democrats and the Democratic Party, we now have a Democratic President about to come into office....you admit you left DU when President Obama, as Senator Obama did something you didn't agree with, you now return here SOLELY to trash him in a bunch of threads....why?

On Edit: Added comment

[...of J.Temperance]

198. So you've returned NOW huh, specificaly to bash President Obama all the time?

And John Kerry was a Centrist....lol! You obviously don't even know what a Centrist is then.

John Kerry was a Liberal, there was nothing Centrist about him, even though I supported him in 2004.

President Obama is a Centrist with liberal leanings on a variety of issues, and I'm fine with that, because the Mainstream ARE Centrists combined with moderate liberals.

Larry Summers, along with Robert Rubin were both very good as Secretary of The Treasury, so why you insist on trashing them as well, I don't know.

Your comment about President Obama being to the right of Coolidge is HYSTERICALLY funny!

[robinlynne]

41. I read we are getting ONE cabinet member, RFK JR.

[...of J.Temperance]

203. I think EPA will be given to Lincoln Chaffee myself....RFK Jr.

Doesn't have the temperament nor, well, he's very off the deep end, he's not Cabinet material really, too embarrassing, calling opponents "Nazi's", prone to supporting pretty much EVERY Conspiracy Theory going....he'd be an embarrassment to President Obama, probably one of the reasons why he's never been allowed by the Democratic Party to run for Senator or Governor of some state.

Lincoln Chaffee, he had a 99% Democratic Party voting record, he's sane, he's well liked, he's respected and I wouldn't be surprised if President Obama gives him the EPA job.

RFK Jr AIN'T his father, RFK Jr is pretty nutty actually, I've read some of his writings and they're kind of crazy.

[maryf]

234. RFK jr.

Is very much like his father would have been in this time and place, I think, one of the very few people of his "class" that I would trust to care for the people. I've not only read "some" of his writings but heard him speak live, he's rational, clear, and very bright.

I was actually afraid if he did get selected and chose to accept that we would lose an advocate not only for the environment, but for election rights, civil rights, and constitution rights...read "some" more or listen to him on ring of fire, smart dude...and he cares a little...

[mdmc]

243. I'd take rfk jr ...

he is a good guy...

[Hippo_Tron]

215. Who on the left would you like to see as SecDef and what are their qualifications?

[Renew Deal]

3. Obama loves Lugar.

He mentioned him specifically in the debate. Hagel loves Obama. Everyone thinks Gates is doing a good job.

[Leopolds Ghost]

22. "Everyone thinks Gates is doing a good job."

Really? Is that the consensus nowadays?

among the progressive community who opposed the war?

Do Gates and Obama support Kerry's promise to have no bases in Iraq?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

59. While I think Gates has been FAR better than Rummy

I didn't like his going along with Bush's fear mongering during the debates over the Iraq troop funding/timeline bills

OTOH I think that he played a critically important role serving as a "firewall" to prevent Bush/Cheney from attacking Iran. Now that Bush will be gone next January, WHAT exactly will he be useful to Obama for?

I'm not saying that I necessarily oppose having him stay on as Defense Secretary but I'd want to make sure that he's going to generally support Obama's new policies on Iraq, etc. I'm also with a lot of other people here on why can't we find a good Democrat for this post? Couldn't somebody like Kerry handle the position just as well? Why exactly do we need a Reagan/Bush II throwback?

[defendandprotect]

122. Gates is a neo-con criminal ..!!

[Captain Hilts]

134. Yes. Gates has done a good job in a very difficult position. Keep him. nt

[Hippo_Tron]

216. Sorry, Gates has yet to do jack shit about KBR's fraud and negligence in Iraq

Several of our troops have been electrocuted in the shower because KBR was not capable of properly installing and maintaining the electrical wiring and did a poor job subcontracting it out. Several people in the Pentagon as well as KBR should rot in hell for this negligence but Gates has yet to hold anybody accountable.

[...of J.Temperance]

204. We agree on something, about Gates....I think Wesley Clark would be good as Defense Secretary

I don't like Robert Gates and for that matter I'm not keen on Richard Lugar either.

Wesley Clark would be good at Defense.

[bdamomma]

32. but Lugar turned Obama down.

another person who should be considered is Jack Reed from RI, he went with Hagel and Obama to Iraq.

Just another suggestion.

[johnlal]

44. Lugar is interested in nuclear nonproliferation.

I admire him for that. He also has a good head for foreign affairs. He sold out to Bush, and his credibility was hurt by that.
But I can give you a long list of people who sold out to Bush.

However, I understand the frustration of the original post's author. A LOT of Democrats worked hard to get Obama elected. The jobs should go to qualified Democrats.

[Hippo_Tron]

217. This jobs should go to whomever is the most qualified

And frankly nuclear nonproliferation is arguably the most pressing security issue of our time. The Secretary of State will probably be a liberal and so will the National Security Adviser. I wouldn't mind seeing a little bipartisanship on the Defense side if a Republican is extremely qualified. That does come with the caveat that they are on board with allowing gays to serve openly in the military.

[Sebass1271]

4. he still needs these ppl for counsel and advise BUT

OBAMA will bring change on policies. Policies that will work for the country. Not the policies of the republican machine.

[tabatha]

21. You are right.

[last1standing]

5. This is the change Obama always talked about.

If you didn't know he was going to reach across the aisle to work with the other side then you weren't listening for the last two years. Don't blame Obama for your laziness.

[bobbolink]

67. Nice attack.

Then you'll be expecting votes from those you attack in the next election?

Some logic.

You're preaching the logic of "reaching across the aisle" and making nice with the RW, then you personally attack one of your own?

P-E-A-C-E.

It's really a good concept.

Give it a try.

Please...?

[last1standing]

80. You seem to confuse me with Obama.

At least you're ascribing to me traits I never espoused just because I support my President-Elect in working with those who will help him in passing much needed progressive legislation. Also, I did not attack Nichomachus, I suggested he not blame Obama for his own laziness. If he hasn't bothered to listen to Obama's philosophy of government within the last two years then he is lazy. Just a statement of fact.

But I will agree with you on peace. Let's both try it, huh?

[bobbolink]

69. deleted.. it said it didn't post... sigh....

:shrug:

[gravity]

6. Reaching accross the aisle is change

[kath]

40. Reaching across the aisle is BULLSHIT, especially after all the very real damage that the Repubs

done to this country and the world. Damage that will take DECADES to repair.

And SINCE WHEN have Repubs reached out to Democrats???? I must have missed that part.

[Jack_Dawson]

48. Ahhh the angry left

We WON! Calm down. Lugar and Hagel have always been pretty straight shooters. We don't need blatant partisanship right now.

[hfojvt]

81. I am cool with Hagel, don't know much about Lugar

what chaps me is Powell. Powell? Who sold his soul in the Bush cabinet and gave a bullsh*t speech to the UN promoting the war?? I have neither respect nor affection for him.

[Leopolds Ghost]

110. ´specically after Bush's crimes. We need to assimilate Bush's spy & war powers, not be partisan.

[damonm]

129. So we need to trash the Constitution just as thoroughly as Bush?

And this makes us better how...?

[Two Americas]

209. define "we"

Why is it that Republican never call the right whiners, angry, etc.?

Isn't it Fox News' job to call us the "angry left?" Do they really need any help?

"Blatant partisanship?" I think the public just overwhelmingly rejected the right wing and the Republican party. Pardon some of us for thinking that this might mean traditional Democratic party principles and ideals, and giving something of a cold shoulder to those who ran with the Republicans and just about destroyed the country.

[Individualist]

101. Hear, hear!

[Tyrone Slothrop]

118. So, you'd rather Obama act just like Bush has for the last 8 years?

[riverdale]

225. I want Obama to act as advertised

He's the #1 most liberal person in the entire US Senate, right ? :7 :7 :7 :7

[defendandprotect]

123. Reaching out to a party protecting corp-fascism is still fascism ...!!!

[CJCRANE]

7. Competence comes first.

You get the best people for the job, then you tell them what to do.

[arcadian]

12. Hagel? The best person for the job?

He's kind of a darling around here because of his perceived anti-Iraq war stance, but correct me if I'm wrong, the guy owned voting machines which counted his votes to get into the Senate and there were enormous improprieties reported along with that.

[Melissa G]

52. Correct. n/t

[defendandprotect]

124. quiet .. they're busy protecting these outrages 'cause ...

they want to protect Obama -- but not Constitution ...

Constitution comes in BEHIND criticism ..!!!

[Sal Minella]

16. Yes. And a little familiarity with the ropes and pulleys and catwalks and pitfalls of the landscape

can only help. As I remember, the people running the economy under Clinton never got horsewhipped in public for making a bad job of it, and we could use a little of that expertise right now, given the catastrophic destruction of the present "administration."

[bobbolink]

72. right. There are NO "competent" Democrats.

:crazy:

[Raskolnik]

88. The cabinet should be filled with competent, pragmatic people who can implement policy.

Some of those might be Republicans. Deal with it.

[bobbolink]

92. "DEAL WITH IT."

So, you have more support for Republicans than for your fellow Dems?

You'll attack those who GAVE MILLIONS OF $$$ AND SPENT THEIR TIME TO ELECT THIS "CHANGE"?

Yeah, that attitude gives me LOTS of confidence that the "change" will be for "PEACE".

[Raskolnik]

94. A few points:

First, I support the Democratic administration. That administration will almost certainly contain some moderate Republicans, and I believe that to be a good thing for Obama's ability to implement policy and a good thing for the country.

Second, I'm not "attacking" anyone--I'm pointing out that the histrionics might not be merited at Election day +2.

Third, you didn't give "MILLIONS OF $$$" to elect Obama, and he doesn't owe YOU anything other than to govern the entire country as closely to his mandate as possible. His job is not to make YOU happy.

[bobbolink]

95. Thank you for continuing the hostile tone. That is certainly "change".

[Critters2]

190. Remind me again. Where did all those MILLIONS OF $$$ come from.?

Not from moderate Rethugs, I'm guessing.

[defendandprotect]

193. We're "hysterical" and you're for "moderate Repugs" ..!!! ???

Obama owes loylty to voters and $$ supporters ...

at least a billion $$ worth or more --

but you seem to favor the GOP/DLC corp agenda which we're busy bailing out --

and which thanks to GOP & corps has delivered another recession ...

and maybe worse???

So let's look to those we just voted out of office for guidance !!!

[defendandprotect]

125. Yes -- "REPUBLICANS FIRST" .. the new motto of this administration ..!!

[Raskolnik]

136. Could you please point out which portion of my post indicated that?

Thank you.

[defendandprotect]

173. Evidently you're not aware of any "competent" Dems for these offices??

And suggest we should "deal with,it" if Obama appoints the guys we just voted

OUT OF OFFICE -- !!!???

Try to remember what the election and last 8 years were about & wake up ... please!!!

[baby_mouse]

177. You're dealing with people who already know what smuggling words are.

Competent, you say.

Competent at doing WHAT?

[defendandprotect]

194. At stealing, appointing cronies to steal, bankruptng Treasury ...starting illegal wars ...

warmongering ... torture ... organized criminality --

destroying Constitution --

Oh, yeah -- bring on the Repugs ....!!

I GUESS WE JUST MISUNDERSTOOD THEM --!! ?????

*************************************************

[baby_mouse]

176. Spin.

Pure, unadulterated spin.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

8. Bipartisanship si part of that change. nt

[defendandprotect]

127. We do not require appointing the right wing in order to be fair to GOP --!!

What are you thinking--???

[Raskolnik]

143. If you think Lugar and Hagel are "right wing" you simply have no sense of political reality.

They do hold some fairly conservative views on some domestic social policy, but are centrists/pragmatists when it comes to foreign policy.

[defendandprotect]

172. They are GOP-!! You remember......the guys we just voted OUT OF OFFICE...?????

[Critters2]

191. Or did we?

:grr:

[defendandprotect]

195. Bring back the Repugs...!! We must have simply misunderstood the last 8 years --!!!

Republican leadership is what we need in the Dem party ...!!!

[live love laugh]

9. Name Bush's bipartisan appointments. nt

[kath]

54. Crickets...

How 'bout Bush Sr? Or Reagan?

[donheld]

55. Do you want Barack to govern with

the same asshole qualities as Bush?

[defendandprotect]

128. It is an "asshole quality" to win and then turn gov over to r-w ...!!

[Telly Savalas]

241. Actually the Democrats won on Tuesday.

People are fed up with the "asshole quality" and this is one of the major reasons Obama won.

[Captain Hilts]

138. Mineta. Dept. of Transportation.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

11. The 3rd FDR (wartime) cabinet included 2 Republicans

1 was Secreatry of Defense and 1 was Secretary of the Navy. FDR did it to solidify Congressional support around his war policies and I believe it was generally considered to be a wise an unifying move.

Personally, I welcome a return to this kind of politics, where the welfare of the country is paramount and the best people are selected regardless of party.

Obama is smarter than the average bear - just like FDR.

[nichomachus]

34. I'm all for Obama putting two Republicans in his third cabinet too. n/t

[loudsue]

58. LOL! Good one nich.

That third term republican appointment wouldn't bother me, either. Good sportsmanship is good sportsmanship.

[bobbolink]

74. .

:applause: :rofl:

[Captain Hilts]

141. Clinton brought Republicans in as well.

Most of FDR's were in the 2nd term. And the Hull and Stimson appointments were announced right before the Republican convention!

He then went on to completely ignore Hull.

[ikojo]

169. Clinton was almost a Republican...what with his support of

NAFTA, GATT, WTO, PNTR with China, selling our jobs overseas, welfare reform, DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act) Dont Ask Don't Tell. He was real good at throwing gays and lesbians under the bus after he was elected. He did that real fast.

[Captain Hilts]

179. Dems - Obama adviser Sam Nunn - kicked Clinton's ass over gays in the military.

He tried. Blame them.

Clinton was the first prez to attend a gay event. Gays supported Hillary in this race for that reason.

[defendandprotect]

184. 'Cause hatred + homophobia is such a healthy position for any gov official ...

we should use GOP as "ADVISERS" -- !!!




:)

[Captain Hilts]

222. It is in California! 53% whites/Latinos voted 'yes' - 70% blacks voted 'yes'.

[...of J.Temperance]

207. John F. Kennedy did it too, Douglas Dillon (Treasury Secretary) was Republican

'Er so was Robert McNamara, but we know that all went wrong, but at least McNamara regretted his Vietnam policy, and the documentary 'The Fog of War' I recommend for those who haven't seen it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fog_of_War

[kysrsoze]

13. Healthcare reform is one of his first agenda items. What do you want?

[Leopolds Ghost]

23. Where are the progressives?

[Critters2]

160. If Dems had wanted a progressive, Edwards or Kucinich would've been the nom. nt

[defendandprotect]

185. You're naive -- and evidently missed the COC direct threats

to our populist candidates --

wake up!!

[Critters2]

189. I didn't miss the threats, though I may be naive.

I'd just like some party leaders with actual backbones. A girl can dream!

[defendandprotect]

199. And Repugs have "actual backbones" ...?????

Why didn't you vote for McCain and Palin if that's you're thinking...???

[...of J.Temperance]

210. Where are the progressives? They're in the basement

:P

[kath]

42. as long as the insurance companies are still in the picture, we will not get the sort of healthcare

reform we need.

[defendandprotect]

66. WHY are the insurance companies in the picture ...??

Take age limit off Medicare --

[kath]

90. Because they donate MEGAbucks to campaigns. Obama's included.

He also got lots of money from the telecoms.

[ieoeja]

98. And MEGAbucks to ... the economy.

Shutting them down would be a pretty huge blow to an already down and out economy.

[kath]

108. Oh, yeah - we should never go to single payer healthcare - look how much it damages the economies

of EVERY SINGLE OTHER DEVELOPED NATION.

[ieoeja]

119. Did they already have a huge portion of the economy invested our current way?

Or did there single payer healthcare come in early? I believe they implemented it pretty early, and therefore there was no existing investment to worry about.

In the long run (and really not so very long) government paid healthcare would be a huge boon for the economy. Healthcare costs represent a huge percentage of the cost of any car manufactured in the United States making it difficult for them to compete. And that is just one industry. Virtually every industry except insurance would benefit greatly from this.

But Obama is not going to just ignore the disaster this would immediately cause to the insurance industry. Or to the people who would lose their jobs in that sector having to start over at a lower salary in a new career. It *is* the right way to go. But there are negative consequences, and we must do what we can to ease those.

[defendandprotect]

187. It would also be a boon to the health of America ..

:)

[Greyhound]

178. Absolute BS. They are a net loss to the economy.

~80% of employed Americans are employed by small business, you know, the guys that get no support out of DC whatsoever.

Huge corporations take far more out of the system than they put into it in real monetary terms (they receive more in direct subsidies and tax breaks than they pay in taxes), domestic job destruction (look at the employment figures of any large corporation over the last 15 years, they employ fewer people now than they did then, mostly due to off-shoring and outsourcing), stifled innovation and competition.

They are a drain and we would be better off without them and health care companies are about the worst.

[defendandprotect]

186. You mean the "economy" we've been bailing out -- again???

Capitalism is BS -- wake up!!

[defendandprotect]

132. Obama also got prob a BILLION from public he's now ignoring ...!!!

Because that $$ is given with NO STRINGS ...

Not the way corps do it --

We had best be thinking about "strings" and leverage on Obama --

[bobbolink]

75. So, people donated MILLIONS and MILLIONS and all those hard hours of work...

To preserve the status quo?

What kind of return is that??

"Progressives" are expected to sit still for this????

[ieoeja]

99. No, progressives are fully expected to get hugely pissed off.

As Obama keeps his campaign promise to work with Republicans and push an agenda not defined by ideology.

Why progressives operated on the assumption that Obama was secretly one of them, I will never know. You would have to ask the progressives where that idea came from.

[Leopolds Ghost]

111. Funny how the paid campaign aides are coming out of the woodwork to attack unpaid progressives

For being ungrateful, isn't it?

[ieoeja]

117. You lost me on that one. What? n/t

[bobbolink]

228. I don't think "funny" is a word that I would use...

"attack unpaid progressives"

And that would be "change"???

:(

[defendandprotect]

135. We didn't ... we thought he was a Dem, however ...!!!

And if he was DLC ... he was hiding it very well --!!

[defendandprotect]

133. Right .. you're learning a DEM-lesson many of us learned decades ago as ...

party was being co-opted/converted to working for corp-elites ...!!!

Where are you going --??

Where's your leverage on Dems--??

Only thru third parties will you ever gain leverage --

Otherwise DLC will continue to move party to right--
If Howard Dean walked on them, I think MANY of us would go with him ...!!!

[bobbolink]

227. Whoa..... please, not the assumptions....

"Right .. you're learning a DEM-lesson many of us learned decades ago as ..."

I"m no young, wet-behind-the-ears neophyte... I knew the same thing back in the 60s, so please don't push me away with your assumptions.

[blonndee]

181. I for one am happy that I donated my hard-earned money and my time and shoe leather to elect Obama.

[defendandprotect]

196. Notice that's a child sitting in front of a TV ...!!

The question is: --

Are you happy with administration led by DLC/corporates and Repugs ...??

**********************************************************************

[Freddie Stubbs]

79. Probably the SCHIP bill which Bush vetoed

I heard Speaker Pelosi on NPR last night and she stated that the SCHIP expansion would be one of the first bills which the new Congress will send to the White House.

[magellan]

14. I'll never be okay with Powell

Powell failed in honor and duty to this country. His hands are blood-stained. If Obama rewards him with an appointment his integrity will fall into unrecoverable question with me.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

15. I'd never be ok with Powell either. nt.

[defendandprotect]

137. Same here -- military criminal -- liar/murderer --

[Sal Minella]

20. As much loathing as I have for Powell's performance at the U.N., he was actually carrying out his

duty to his Commander in Chief as he saw it at the time. Took me years to arrive at feeling this way, but if my understanding of military chain of command is correct, Powell had little choice at the time of his embarrassing U.N. dog-and-pony show.

[Romulox]

25. "The Nuremberg Defense". nt

[bobbolink]

77. Exactly. How quickly we forget.... such an important, and wrenching lesson...

:cry:

A good German.

A black man, but a good German.

:cry:

[bobbolink]

78. Exactly. How quickly we forget.... such an important, and wrenching lesson...

:cry:

A good German.

A black man, but a good German.

:cry:

[magellan]

31. Respectfully disagree

He was Sec of State, not in the military command structure. And even if one construes his position as subordinate to the CiC at a time of war, he still had the duty and the "rank" (civilian though it was) to defend and protect the Constitution by speaking up.

[defendandprotect]

140. Bull shit .. his duty is to preserve Constitution ... not Bush nor neo-cons --

Military has no auhority given them by "people" to supercede Constitution ..

now or ever -- just the reverse --

and despite GOP fsscists .. and Ollie North --

wake up!!

Where do you get these ideas????

[defendandprotect]

68. Why not Condi --?? How about Cheney .. he needs a job now--!!!

[Orsino]

18. Changing what CNN reports isn't our first concern.

Look at Obama's actual appointments and nominations to judge him.

[defendandprotect]

197. Emmanuel is an actuasl appointment -- DLC & traitor to ideals of Dem Party --

[Orsino]

218. Yep.

I was disappointed, too, at first.

Now I think it might be an ingenious way to neutralize Rahm. Turn him into an Obama supporter by definition, rather than the autopilot for the old Democratic Party.

I hope. :scared:

[Leopolds Ghost]

24. Don't forget Larry Summers and Robert Rubin, the Wall St Dem "Princes of Darkness".

[defendandprotect]

146. How about ROVE .. he could prob fit in somewhere -- !!!

[4themind]

27. It may start after he actually become president

After his inauguration, and then starting his duties, you know pushing through bills to become laws etc. I say we keep a circumspect patience and save much of our judgment about Obama's policies for when we have tangible legislation to critique. The advisors are just tools in the cogs of getting things done, and they may indicate certain positions but aren't the final barometer of that. He's pretty consistently (IMO) suggested that he'd have a team of rivals but would use them for advisement rather than be beholden to them (shurbya) but we'll have to see. I myself have misgivings, for example, about Rahm's temperament for the job, he didn't have that type of figure in his campaign so it seems a little weird that he'd change it for governance, then again campaigning has differences from governing.

[Marrah_G]

28. This is going to be quite something to sit back and watch.

[Dover]

29. I saw the headline for an article that said these are the guys who started the 'buzz'

On Edit: Oops...a little off on that. Here is the article I saw:

Rahm Emanuel, Larry Summers, Robert Gates lead buzz for Obama cabinet roles


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/11/04/2008-11-04_rahm_emanuel_larry_summers_robert_gates_.html

[leftofthedial]

33. you're not allowed to ask that or to question his decisions.

Your thread will be locked.

[ananda]

35. My thinking is that Obama is such a strong force for change..

.. that anyone who accepts the call to serve
will be happy also to be a force for change.

It's what the country wants and needs.. and
it will be wonderful to have moderate Republicans
as part of that change.

It will help seal the deal, so to speak.

Here's hopin, anyway.

[defendandprotect]

147. How long have you been this naive..???

[RufusTFirefly]

36. K and R...

:popcorn:

[noiretextatique]

45. mind if i join you?

:popcorn:

[RufusTFirefly]

46. Be my guest

[stillcool]

37. Go ask CNN

[kath]

38. Fucking Powell?

That liar, with all the blood on his hands?!??
Shit.

[defendandprotect]

65. Puking now ...!!

[robinlynne]

39. AGREED!!! no republicans for god's sake. and no emmanuel, harman either.

[johnlal]

43. He has a (D) next to his name and he broke down some big barriers

He also brought some progressives into Congress on his coattails. That's a big win, given the choices we had. We just have to keep working, keep our voices up, keep watching and keep praying.

[bobbolink]

86. Yes, that "D" will be important as more and more poor folk go down the drain.

:sarcasm:

[maryf]

235. Yep, will look just the same as an R would...

more and more it seems spelling is the biggest difference between parties...

[babylonsister]

47. Obama advisors: "...no plans to announce Cabinet this week"

It's all speculation. It's a guessing game to the media hacks. Don't listen to them.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7806510&mesg_id=7806510

[bobbolink]

87. Rahm has already been named. Isn't that clue enough?

[defendandprotect]

148. Biden is also DLC -- we just elected more corp-fascists--??

[bobbolink]

226. Sadly....

:(

[populistdriven]

49. looks like i am going to need the ignore function again soon

[humbled_opinion]

50. FOOLISH...

Remember, Obama is going to get attacked by the Right Wing Smear Machine for every decision he makes. They will try and spin and twist every decision, look my point is they are even complaining about Rham Emanual, we know that Emanual is a centrist pragmatist but the right is calling him a far left, conservative hater and asking how this shows Bi-partisanship.

In this environment it would be best for Obama to pick brand new folks, or stick to principled Liberal minded people instead of leaning Right. He never promised Republicans in his administration and if he choses Hagel or Lugar he is going to get slammed from both sides. Better to get some fresh new faces in the mix.

[defendandprotect]

149. Yeah, right, that will stop the neo-con attack machine ...!!!

[humbled_opinion]

206. I never said it would stop them

but it will be more satisfactory to me and other Obama supporters... Why should he swing right when effectively isolating his base??????

[defendandprotect]

212. Sorry -- I totally agree with you ...

... I misread your post --or confused it with another --

MY APOLOGIES ..!!!

[Jack Rabbit]

51. My PC has the hiccups

Sorry.

[Jack Rabbit]

53. Reaching for bipartisan support rather than just be President for half the voters

. . . that sounds like change and positive change to me.

[Mudoria]

57. Same here...

Unlike the current phucked up administration I want President Obama to appoint competent and qualified people to positions. Gates, Lugar and Hagel all are Republicans but that doesn't mean they aren't damn well qualified to be in an Obama government. I trust the President-Elect's choices in these things.

[defendandprotect]

150. Being a president of ALL the people does NOT require appointing the r-w to government --!!!

It does require prosecuting criminals and those who have bankrupted the Treasury

and lied to the public to create wars --

and that he uphold the Constitution and IDEALS of democracy --

[TexasObserver]

56. The CHANGE is the guy running things.

Bush v. Obama.

That's a huge difference, even if none of the faces change.

I'm not troubled by Obama picking some Republicans to be on his team. Especially a guy like Lugar or Hagel.

I'm certain Gates will not be kept on long.

[defendandprotect]

62. dupe

[defendandprotect]

63. ..who was elected to create change .. !!!

[njtechguy]

60. Relax

Obama is going to put people around him the same way Lincoln did. Obama will have has ideas and he will know where he wants to lead the nation. He also likes to put people around him that sometimes disagree with him. It is very healthy. Having arguments and discussions about issues will only make him stronger.

We do not want our version of President Bush in there who only surrounds himself with like minded people. i don't know about the rest of you, but I did not donate and work so that we can have a president represent only part of the population. It is not time to payback the rethugs for the last 8 years, its time for us to govern and show what leadership is. Think back to the show the west wing.........they bring in the repub to argue with.

This is the new America, its called have an intellectual leader.

[defendandprotect]

61. Worse than I thought it'd be -- Holy Shit--!!

[Raskolnik]

85. Other than the desire to be in perpetual outrage about something,

please explain why these (rumored) picks are worthy of "Holy Shit!!"

[Leopolds Ghost]

113. Larry Summers co-authored the Gramm banking deregulation act. Robert Rubin helped destroy mfg unions

In an effort to export jobs overseas and create a "post industrial" economy. Rahm supported the policies of the other two, along with fighting to prevent anti-war liberals from running in 2006.

[defendandprotect]

151. THIS would again be complete betrayal of our votes ...

Let'a hear from John Sweeney on this -- if true, unions are betrayed --

Two years from now, we can all take a hike, but what will be left --???

Nice final moves by Bush in bankrupting nation -- anyone notice???

[defendandprotect]

175. Because they're the people we just voted OUT OF OFFICE .. remember???

[Enrique]

70. did you think change meant he'd only appoint democrats?

I don't remember him promising that.

[Juche]

71. If he picks Luger, Indiana might get another dem senator

Luger is up for reelection in 2012. If he gets picked then in 2012 the dems might gain another senator since Indiana moved pretty far to the left in 2006 and 2008. Also Luger is one of the few moderates in the GOP left.

[defendandprotect]

73. This is also a good way for Obama to open the administration to treachery, betrayal --

fatal doings --

Really inane and dangerous --

And he has a progressive MANDATE for change --!!!

[Raskolnik]

89. I'm glad Lincoln and Roosevelt didn't agree with you. n/t

[defendandprotect]

174. Lincoln was assassinated -- and FDR appointed liberals ..

[bobbolink]

91. You're right... but then, we're only the RAGING, "fringe left"...

What would be REALLY "dangerous" is to listen to us.... we're just "terrorists", donchaknow...

:(

[Raskolnik]

93. Oh, please. Spare the self-pity already.

Not every person in an administration can, or should, be an ideological clone of the President. All that does is create an echo chamber and discourage pragmatism.

[bobbolink]

96. Are you now going to follow me around with denegrating attacks?

Are you singling me out?

That post of mine wasn't in response to you, so you don't need to keep attacking me.

If you would take the time to read the DU rules, you will note that following someone around attacking them is against the rules.

If you persist, I will alert.

Thank you for your consideration.

[Raskolnik]

104. A little dramatic, aren't we?

You made posts in a public forum which I feel are both ill-informed and unhelpful. If you don't want people responding to your ideas, don't put them in a public forum.

If you'd like to actually discuss the topic at hand, please feel free, but I have little use for the persecution complex.

[bobbolink]

106. Thanks for making it clear... you will be following me around, and don't want others responding to

me.

I appreciate your honesty.

[Raskolnik]

112. Huh? Why would I not want others responding to you?

The more the merrier. Share the wealth. To each his own. A stitch in time saves nine. All that jazz.

[defendandprotect]

152. They should not be the enemies of the voters who elected Obama ..!!

[defendandprotect]

153. They should not be the enemies of the voters who elected Obama ..!!

[Freddie Stubbs]

76. Bipartisanship is a change

Bush usually surrounded himself with people who agreed with him. Obama seems willing to listen to some people with whom he doesn't see eye to eye with.

[defendandprotect]

156. No it's not..Geo Mitchell turned the Dem Senate over to GOP/Bob Dole in '80's ...

None of this is new ...

Many of us are waiting for the rest of you to wake up ... please!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. Look up WHO FDR appointed to his cabinet

and please point to the rabid lefties ok...

Good luck

What is happening is very similar to 1932

We will get the same kind of a cabinet, and that will also give them the ability to do something they would not be able to do if ideologues on either side where appointed.

FDR got it... and Obama does too

Oh and don't expect New Deal, but New Deal 2.0... they are already talking about it

[Captain Hilts]

144. The former Republicans were FDR's "rabid lefties": Ickes, Eleanor and Wallace. nt

[ecstatic]

83. After all this, you don't trust Obama's ability to put together a winning team?

Wow. I think some of you just want to be upset or outraged at all times.

[Leopolds Ghost]

114. After FISA, why should I trust Obama with anything other than a vote against McCain?

Aside from being a qualified and oratorically inspiring first Black president,
I would have equally enjoyed Powell in that role, and so would everyone else
in America, as he would have been about as far left as Obama.

:shrug:

[Captain Hilts]

145. Very true. nt

[defendandprotect]

157. I'm familiar with Dem betraysls -- DLC -- and not blind --!!!

[Raskolnik]

84. That's right. The cabinet should be made up entirely of ideologues who agree with the President

That's worked great for eight years, hasn't it?

Listen, Lugar and Hagel would be valuable voices that would offer pragmatic advice and give Obama's foreign policy increased credibility. I don't want either of them deciding abortion policy or the capital gains tax, but I doubt very much whether they will be asked to in the Obama administration.

Gates is, on balance, not a bad Sec. of Defense. By all accounts he was a strong voice against any preemtive attack on Iran, and whether he agrees with complete withdrawl from Iraq or not isn't as important as whether he can perform that task competently and credibly.

There is a reason that (smart) Presidents facing crises tend to appoint people with whom they may not agree on every, or even most, issues. Lincoln did it, Roosevelt did it, and I'm glad Obama will do it.

[gmudem]

100. Thank you for making sense.

Bipartisanship IS change. Obama is actually trying to be a uniter, not pretending to be one like Bush did. He has said several times he would consider having Republicans as a part of his administration, so people who are pissed by this either didn't pay attention or just want something to be pissed about.

[Raskolnik]

105. And the more we can draw from relative centrists like Hagel & Lugar

the more we can isolate and diminish the power of batshit ideologues.

If done properly (and at this point I don't have much reason to think that it won't be), this type of bipartisanship isn't a sop to the radical wing of the Republican party, it's a thumb in their eye.

[Leopolds Ghost]

115. I'd agree with you but that is not how policy works. Liberal policy comes from liberal cabinet secs

Consider Rubin vs. Reich and how that affected the demolition of the manufacturing economy in favor of a credit-based economy that relies on export of high-end professional services, including the knowledge of how to actually MAKE all those "information economy" gizmos and import of all finished goods on credit furnished to the masses by aforementioned high-end wealthy bankers and associated professionals.

[Leopolds Ghost]

116. Consider how Andrew Cuomo authored HOPE VI which allowed New Orleans to evict 1000s of black people

after Katrina by establishing that public housing should no longer exist.

[defendandprotect]

159. Wow ... nothing so dangerous as somone who remembers history ---!!!

[Raskolnik]

120. That's how good policy is made.

I don't want policy coming out of the Obama adminstration that can't survive a rigorous internal debate. I don't want an echo chamber, and I don't want this administration to dismiss reality when it conflicts their ideology.

[defendandprotect]

161. What we want is an end to neo-con/right-wing ideology....not a new beginning for it--!!!

[blonndee]

182. Thank you!

Geez, what a relief. Some sanity and pragmatism in a sea of screeching hyperbole.

[gmudem]

97. He has said he would consider Repub's for some spots.

And Gates is not pure evil like most Bush people, and it makes sense to keep him on for Iraq.

God people just love to bitch.

[defendandprotect]

162. Gates is deep in criminal activity.. "October Surprise" ...!!!

[Individualist]

102. K&R

[ieoeja]

103. So how would you stop Republicans from filibustering?

Secretaries have to be approved by the Senate. To stop Republicans from filibustering, Obama will need a handful of Republicans who agree with this appointments.

Obama has two choices. The choice you seem to advocate is picking a nominee then submitting that nomination to the full Senate to find out if Republicans will filibuster. Obama has made the choice to seek out the opinions of a couple of moderate Republicans earlier in the process.

As to "change" it is *you* who want Obama to do this the exact same way that Bush and Clinton did it. Obama defined change a thousand times in this campaign as ignoring ideology and working with Republicans instead of against them. Don't blame Obama for keeping this campaign promise.

[DefenseLawyer]

107. Two Days

That's how long it took for the Green Party cranks to get back to calling all of us sell-outs, including of course the President Elect, Sellout-In-Chief. It's cool though. We need a healthy discourse. Thanks for waiting til after the election.

[defendandprotect]

163. It was predictable ... and hope you're all waking up soon ....

[earth mom]

139. Obama is status quo. I told ya'll so all year long & people here argued with me that he wasn't.

Hell, Edwards told ya'll that Obama was status quo and no one wanted to hear if from him either.

Remember how the Chamber of Commerce threatened Edwards? Meanwhile they never said one word about Obama and his plans of "change".

It's not so difficult to connect the dots if you look for them.

The only good news I've heard is that maybe, just maybe RFK Jr. is going to head the EPA.

Sounds like that's the only goddamned bone Obama is gonna throw us lefties. :grr:

[defendandprotect]

164. You're right..but with Edwards/Kucinich knocked out we can't leave

alone .. we have to leave in a large block --

See my journal comments --

[shadowknows69]

142. What part of him reaching across the aisle didn't you understand?

[defendandprotect]

165. The part where he appoints fascists, criminals, liars, neo-cons ...!!!

You're willing to believe anything if it has a "D" label --

Wake up!!!

[skepticscott]

167. The why part

would be what some of us don't understand. Why we need to go cap in hand to the Repugs? We have the presidency and substantial majorities in both houses on Congress. We don't NEED the Republicans help to do what needs to be done. If they want to filibuster every appointment and every piece of legislation, let them. We'll kick their ass even worse in 2 years and go over 60 for a long time. They're welcome to join us and offer their opinions if they want, but on OUR terms. We either think we know better than they do how to run the country or we don't. If we do, let's get on with it. If not, what the f**k do we even have a party for?

It would really be a slap in the face to Democrats for Obama to imply by his choices that there are NO qualified Democrats for every cabinet position. Not to mention all of the people who have been fighting for 8 years to get the Republicans OUT of power. There has been so much lawbreaking going on in the cabinet departments that the whole cesspool of the executive branch needs to be drained and all of the whistleblowers heard. That won't happen if we put Rethugnicans back in charge!

[depakid]

154. The danger of course is that lurching to the right enables and legitimizes Republican policies

which is what Clinton did between 1992 and 1994.

In doing so, he alienated many of most enthusiastic supporters who made up his ground game- and they stayed home and didn't get their boots on the ground next election.

Same very thing could easily happen here, especially among young people, who are very easily disillusioned.

[defendandprotect]

166. Which have succeeded so well--!!

[Hippo_Tron]

214. There is no clear line between Republican and Democratic foreign policies

And frankly I think that's partly because the Democrats have yet to develop a really cohesive foreign policy. Right now the main schools of thought are the neocons and the paleocons. Democrats in general seem to support some sort of ill defined middle ground. It will be up to President Obama to define foreign policy for his administration and for his party.

[Hippo_Tron]

155. A Republican Secretary of Defense is a strategic move on the international level

Foreign adversaries likely have this idea that "change" means Obama will bend to their will. A Republican heavyweight heading the Pentagon would send some very mixed signals to our adversaries that think they have Obama figured out.

On the other hand, the Secretary of State will probably be a Democrat because Obama wants to make restoring our relationships with our allies a serious priority and the Republican brand isn't exactly good on that front.

[defendandprotect]

168. We've just finished bombing the hell out of & destroying the Middle East

and you're worried that "foreign adversaries" expect Obama to "bend to their will" ...????

We've been doing nothing but war-mongering for 8 years and you're worried that the

Pentagon may be weak???

They really scared you with their lies -- and you really believed them ..!!???

OMG!!!



Not to mention TORTURE --

Not to mention the NEW CRUSADE -- this time against Muslims --!!

[Hippo_Tron]

213. I fully expect Obama to end torture and close GITMO

But I don't expect him to lay out all of his cards on the table to show to our adversaries. This is like when many on wanted Obama to take use of force in Iran off the table. Nothing should be taken off the table when one wants to bargain. Of course I don't want to see us go to war with Iran but the threat of going to war can be enough in certain situations to achieve desired outcomes.

This is basically US policy toward Taiwan. The US says that they will defend Taiwan if China ever invades and that keeps China from invading. Of course in reality I would sure as hell hope that the United States doesn't actually plan on going to war with China in order to defend Taiwan. It simply isn't worth it. But our policy of ambiguity has preserved Taiwan's self governance and kept the peace (as long as Taiwan doesn't declare independence).

A Republican Secretary of Defense is the big stick that Obama will carry around to speak softly.

[skepticscott]

171. It would also reinforce the conviction

of everyone who thinks that Democrats are weak on defense. Sending the message that Democrats can't keep the country safe without Republicans leading the way is a really BAD strategic move...

[Critters2]

158. He's a centrist. He's always been a centrist, he'll always be a centrist.

I know Fox News kept calling him a liberal. What I can't figure out is why so many DU'ers believe Fox News.

[defendandprotect]

170. This was the Dem candidate ....does "we had no choice" sound familiar at all--???

[Critters2]

180. Welcome to my argument against open primaries!

Anyone and his cousin can vote in primaries and caucuses, choosing someone active, knowledgeable Dems might not. But the person they choose becomes the "we had no choice" candidate. And immediately after the election, the "centrist" chosen by DINOs begins to do things leaving active Dems going :wtf:

The system needs to change.

[defendandprotect]

183. Also look at Chamber of Commerce/corp threats made to our populist candidates ...

Edwards/Kucinich -- with no repercusdsuins btw --!!

And certainly Bush I was hacked into office by Sununu via NH, so that kind

of play also has to be considered either way ...

Nader made some interesting comments on what you're pointing out re primaries ..

i.e., that the parties know history of members .. womanizers like Clinton ...

religious freaks like Liebermann ... etc ..

Also asked, when does a corp permit the public to nominate their presidents or BOD

members??

It's nuts --

I'm amazed at how naive so many DU'ers are on so many issues --!!!

[Critters2]

188. Wait til the next primariy season, though, when Dems will whine about

how caucuses don't allow just anyone to vote, the way primaries do. God forbid we should expect people to give up a couple of hours of their time to actually ATTEND A PARTY MEETING in order to call themselves members of the party!! No, it's way better to have candidates chosen by people who don't even know Central Committees exist, let alone knowing their precinct committee person. :banghead:

[defendandprotect]

200. That's what the Dems did long sgo ... not that I personally experienced it--!!

Knowing communities --

not happening anymore --!!

[bobbolink]

230. I agree completely.... I favor caucus.. Democracy in action.

The problem I don't know how to resolve is those who can't physically get there... they must work those hours, they have small children, etc.

Nothing is simple, damn it.

[tigereye]

192. well, you want some old hands from the HIll, and you want some new faces

as well. Perhaps there is room for both...

[Two Americas]

205. there is room for everyone

Well almost.

FDR New Deal Democrats are not welcome.

[tigereye]

208. it was interesting, Terri Gross was interviewing an econ journalist today

who was espousing some aspects of New Deal- type thinking on the current economic situation vs. Hoover's strategies. Rather interesting to hear that type of historical perspective.

[Two Americas]

211. hey!

We have an election to win! Eyes on the prize, people. We need to stick together right now. After the election we can talk about issues and stuff, but for now we all need to be loyal and focus on winning the election.

Besides, we don't have the numbers, and the people don't support us in moving to the Left.

Oh, wait....

Hey! We did win the election! The public did reject the right wing and the Republicans! Whew! Thank God we won't have to go through those loyalty tests or be told not to express our opinions anymore. Hallelujah!

Remember how it used to be, when we thought we had to run to the center and compromise with the right wing and could not even risk tolerating dissent within our own ranks? That was awful. Glad that is behind us now.

[maryf]

236. LOL

Thanks TA, keep looking left...

[Breeze54]

219. 'Lugar, Hagel, Gates'!?! WTF?.... Pinch me

before I hurl. Oh, let me beat them to it...

"Can't you just go DINO, for cripes sakes, for the good of the country?? Give Obama a chance!!!"

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

He's also considering USA's vs of Baghdad Bob as an advisor?! :puke:

[lovuian]

220. Obama is looking more and more disappointing with every step

he was suppose to bring change

if he doesn't he may see a very very angry America

[deutsey]

221. Anyone who's surprised by these selections just wasn't paying attention

My support for Obama was relatively enthusiastic at first, but then I started learning more about the establishment types he was surrounding himself with and my enthusiasm diminished greatly.

I still voted for him but I had no delusions that he'd be bringing in this kind of centrist/right administration.

What those of us on the left need to do is stop crying about this reality and start putting as much pressure on the Obama administration to represent our views as we can.

[bobbolink]

232. Not at all surprised.

Just sad.

[maryf]

237. Comfort?

Bobbolink, just look at it as something that will wake some people up, that's my "hope"...:hug:

[bobbolink]

239. Yes, I'll paste a big smile on my face.

[Zynx]

223. The change is that he is a post-ideological president. A lot of people don't get this.

Also, Robert Gates is a good man and an able administrator.

[leftchick]

224. sure there will be change

from the letter R to the letter D. I really had no illusions about an Obama or Hillary presidency. Just a milder version of american imperialism.

:(

[secondwind]

229. what do u expect? Names and faces you've never heard or seen before?

CHANGE means that we will do business differently.......especially with a highly-educated President instead of a moron.


LETS ALL GIVE THIS GUY A CHANCE, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!


GIVE CHANGE A CHANCE!!

[AtomicKitten]

231. I'll judge him by his policy.

[mmonk]

233. I have no problem with those three and I'm a liberal.

[mondo joe]

238. Wasn't the CHANGE supposed to be bringing people together regardless of party?

When Obama spoke in the campaign about including Republicans, did you think he was just joking?

[kid a]

240. patience grasshopper

[Nikki Stone1]

242. I understand why he is keeping Gates.

If you're in the middle of a war, and especially if you want to change course, it is far better to have the person who knows what is going on in charge. This is not the time to bring on a new person. I am fine with Gates staying where he is, as long as Obama starts working on scaling down US involvement in Iraq.