Notice How Centriststs (DLC) are already Staking Claims?

[fascisthunter]

Ah yes... right on schedule. Well, I'll say this... I didn't work my ass off, worry and contemplate the future of this country for the last EIGHT years so a bunch of corporate right leaning opportunistic democrats could claim this election victory as their mandate to once again, stuff their bullshit centrist agendas for their powerful elite down my throat. NO FUCKING WAY!

We liberal and progressives will not cede power to you so you can fuck up this country more. You have had your way for wayyyy too long. Because of you, Bush got into office and got most of what he wanted. YOU are the reason people stay home on election day. You are the reason people have very little confidence in their political leaders. No fucking way!

I'm already noticing posts attacking progressives/liberals like RFK, Jr. and bullshit comments about Michael Moore, right after we worked our asses off to get Obama elected. No fucking way!

Get ready liberals and progressives, because these bastards will take what you earned.

[Why Syzygy]

1. No lobbyists in the Whitehouse..

Obama's promise, and he is already delivering on that one. The parasites who are married to corporate lobbyists will be left in the dust. They won't survive.

[xchrom]

2. good luck with that/ nt

[SoxFan]

3. Get over yourself

Obama had plenty of support from all ideological quarters of the Democratic party. When many self-styled progressives were still glomming on to John Edwards, evil DLCers like Janet Napolitano and Kathleen Sebelius were busting their backsides for Obama.

[Fluffdaddy]

12. Thank you...

[Tarheel_Dem]

34. Ditto. There have only been a few confirmed announcements so far,

and already the infighting has begun. I can tell you this from here in the formerly red N. Carolina, not everyone is going to be pleased with the Dennis Kucinich wing of the party trying to take total control either. There's a reason why Dennis & Ralph Nader aren't viable national candidates.....

[defendandprotect]

39. Shall we be threatened by what "formerly red NC thinks--????

Ther reason third parties can't succeed is because they are blocked by laws

established by two corporate parties to prevent real choice for public --

and becsuse they block IRV voting ---

Wake up --!!

[Tarheel_Dem]

47. Go for it, and see what happens. The fact of the matter is the extremes

of both parties make a lot of people uncomfortable, at least here in NC. Just an observation.

[defendandprotect]

51. There is nothing extreme about the ideals of democracy, nor human

or civil rights --

nor justice --

nor economic democracy --

Rather we should hear that TORTURE, oppression, genocide, slavery, religious fanaticism,

patriarchy, exploitation, war, bankrupting the nation, cpitalistic schemes to steal,

pounding down natural resources and destruction of planet and anima; life would make

thoughtful people "uncomfortable" --- !!

Just an observation . . .

[UTUSN]

4. "STAKING claims"?!1 Or, *applying/interviewing* (and being hired)?!1

What does NOT appear to bother you is that Rethugs are said to be reached out to and included.


I'll say again, the Democratic Party is a big umbrella party, not for an elitely pure (and tiny) group.


Methinks you are soon to be *very* disaffected.

[fascisthunter]

29. I'm not talking about Reaching across the aisle

or even placing so-called centrists in positions. I'm talking about DLC centrists being more of an impact on this President than the damn people of this country. I'm talking about so-called centrists giving corporate America what they want and furthering the demise of the already dwindling middleclass.

I want to see a FUCKING LIBERAL SEATD AT THE TABLE!

And as for your 'pure" comment, I expect much from those who seelout for pwer, greed and everything that has screwed this country since Reagan. Pure my ass... disliking corruption and selling out to Wall Street and the elite is far from "PURE". Try again to insult me.

[UTUSN]

31. Never insulted you or wanted to.

I'm getting contradictions in your post:

* "not talking about Reaching across the aisle". That would be Rethugs, correct? It sounds like working-with-Rethugs is somehow better than working-with-"Centrists."

* So it's "Centrists" who coddle corporate America and kill off the middle class. No mention of Rethugs.

* "I'm talking about DLC centrists being more of an impact on this President" ---Uh, you ARE talking about OBAMA as "this president" aren't you? HE is the one hiring the ONE centrist (so far). He's not a mindless puppet/robot like Shrub. HE is calling the shots.


* You want a Liberal at the table. Uh, from the sound of it all, first of all our Dem nominees in '04 and '08 were said to be "the most Liberal (in the Senate, EVER)" and the talk about RFK-Jr and KERRY and many other Dem names being dropped as likely cabinet members are pretty Lib, not to mention our President Elect, who WILL BE AT THE TABLE for starters. Who is NOT at the table?!1

* "I expect much from those who sell out for power, greed and everything else, etc." I don't know what this means. Many of US lifelong Dems, us INCLUSIVE Dems, have spent most of our adult lives crying in the wilderness, taking defeat after defeat, yearning for a WINNER, so you can't be referring to me and my ilk. I *have* accepted Centrists AND "Progressives/Greens/whatever." *I* never "sold out."

* (Your) "disliking corruption and the elite" does not describe ONLY you. It's me and my ilk, too.


Again, I predict that President OBAMA will lose YOU far sooner (if not already) than he ever will me.

I'm interacting sincerely with you. If you reply with more flames of the personal kind, s'long!1

[Individualist]

5. K&R

[FreeJG]

6. I'm extremely annoyed,

We know that if Barak did not win, we would not be a part of anything, nor would any real dems in office beincluded in ANYTHING just like the past eight years. We won, the country has spoken,,,and it's not like it was close.

Why do we have to stay in the middle when governing when the republicans are now a "regional party" at best, and a small one at that!

They need to get out of the way...we are taking our country back. I want to see Barak work on constitutional issues FIRST...restore what has been broken. Then apoligize to Valerie Plame and restore habeas corpus, and get us out of Iraq.

This stay in the middle talk is just that. So the neocons can keep up the status quo...not much change. We cannot allow this to happen. I'm hopeful right now, but I am watching our new leadership very closely.

[defendandprotect]

40. ..because of corporate control of BOTH parties ....

and DLC influence in major ways in moving party to the right --!!!

[depakid]

7. The only thing people are pointing out about RFK Jr.

is that he's not a suitable candidate for heading the EPA, due to his lack of scientific acumen and administrative experience.

Nothing "centrist" about that.

[Sebastian Doyle]

13. The argument is fucking ridiculous

What does his objection to a vaccination which may or may not have caused autism have to do with the Environmental Protection Agency?

If he was being discussed as the head of the FDA, I could see why the pharma shills would object (God forbid somebody actually REGULATE the fucking drug companies) but this isn't even an apples and oranges comparison, it's apples and watermelons.

[depakid]

20. Embracing anti-vaccination quackery says a LOT about his scientific acumen

as well as his judgment.

That coupled with the fact that the EPA is a huge agency that's essentially been gutted and requires a leader with substantial EXPERIENCE in management (as opposed to activism) make him a very poor choice. It shouldn't be hard for sensible folks to see that.

[defendandprotect]

43. Honesty, dedication, life time of experience- integrity ... open-minded ...

As for vaccines, they're certainly NOT building confidence among parents ...

many questions and they should be examined -- not ignored.

Much like he rest of our corrupt medical/drug corps ..

"slash + burn medicine" ...!!

[defendandprotect]

41. BS ..we've had all kinds of science corrupted +distorted and lied about --

Honesty would be nice for a change --

and dedication -- and knowledge from personal experience over lifetime --

[stray cat]

8. Notice how dems in general are fragmenting to their pet issues and groups

like those who like to label anyone to the right or left of them as idiots

[defendandprotect]

44. Describing a center or middle is childish ---

especially when most of us should understand total move to political right over decades

has distorted left/right, leaving any so-called "center" deep in right wing arena--!!

All issues have been distorted and propagandized by right --

Where is center on gay marriage, abortion, slavery, women's rights, genocide--??

TORTURE .. ????

Corporate involvement in elections -- ???

privatizing Social Security/Medicare -- or miitary -- ???

Global Warming -- ???

Let's discuss this "center/middle" nonsense --!!!

[G_j]

9. Howard Zinn on Obama victory

Legendary activist/historian Howard Zinn, author of the classic "A People's History Of The United States," goes on Al Jazeera to discuss the significance of Barack Obama's win. Zinn agrees that Obama's victory is a culmination of years of the civil rights struggle, but Zinn also reminds viewers that we don't know yet what Obama will do for the poor. He can either set a bold new course or simply recycle old Democratic policies. For real change to come, states Zinn, Obama needs to implement a new New Deal, something even more radical than the original New Deal.


video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdFt5oqk3JY

[Solly Mack]

14. I love Zinn

[defendandprotect]

45. I didn't vote for color ... I voted for policy based on democratic ideals and

Constitutional freedoms ... and not limiting them--!!!

Keep in mind what SC Justice Thurgood Marshall said in response to questions from press

as he announced his retirement ---

"Must it be an African-American named to replace you," he was asked.

Marshall responded that "the color of a snake isn't important --

what was important was whether or not the snake bites."


Clarence Thomas is AA .. and a snake do bites!!

Marshall knew what was coming --



I did not vote for a snake who bites...!!!

[leftchick]

54. Zinn always cuts through the BS

And there will be no New Deal as long as the right leaning, they are not even centrists anymore, "democrats" do another Clinton administration. Which is what it is starting to look like.

:(

[Pastiche423]

10. Oh yes, I have noticed it

It sickens me.

I should have gone w/my 1st presidential choice.

[cali]

19. yes. you certainly should have. it says volumes about your inability

to properly research the candidates. President Obama (don't choke on it dear) never promised any particular faction anything.

[Fluffdaddy]

11. Centrists are democrats too. We will have a say.

[Sebastian Doyle]

16. Centrism is a myth.

Oh yes, there are moderates. But DLC "centrism" never was about politcal moderation. It was about corporatist prostitution. And we don't need that shit. We never did.

[Fluffdaddy]

17. Say you. But that don't make it so.

[Sebastian Doyle]

25. Remember what your idols Mr. From and Mr. Marshall said in the aftermath of the 1994 election

That the republican take-over of Congress was a GOOD thing, because it allowed them, the DLC, to "liberate" the Democratic Party from the legacy of FDR.

Well look where the fuck that got us. On the edge of the next great depression. And the American people finally got that reality. 28 years of fucked up, reverse-Robin Hood steal from the poor and give to the rich economic policy.

It's that "legacy" we need to be liberated from now. Wonder how Will & Al feel about that?

[Individualist]

24. Absolutely.

DLC "centrism" is also about warmongering and turning the Democratic Party into a subservient branch of the republican party.

[kenfrequed]

62. Oh really?

And where are the liberal-progressives going to be now that Rahm is COS? What about those of us that have been agitating and protesting and marching and muckraking for the last 8 years of herr Bush?

I mean I know we have to give you SOMETHING for the victory that would have been impossible without something resembling a voice of opposition. You know, the opposition that was exemplified by Move On and other groups that your DLC demonized at every turn.

What do we get? Well the DLC is against single payer government run healthcare, and they want to continue to run away from the legacy of FDR, and they seem to be very chummy with the 'Free trade ubber alles' crowd. So what do we the little people get?

People are friggin straving for progressive reform. We have been for years. The Reagan revolution has been over for years, GW Bush was the last cancerous gasping grasp of that idiot-ology. Isn't it time we gave up on the orgaization that was dedicated to the 'third way'? Honestly, what are we compromising with when we have won? Do we have anything left to hock or sell off or triangulate away from?

[Dr Fate]

15. I would be suprised if Obama ignores progressives, progressive issues...

...or fails to appoint any progressives in top positions.

Stay tuned...

[robinlynne]

18. Good luck with that . Obama is choosing his cabinet from the far right.

I hear we may get one good guy as a bone.

[cali]

22. what a steaming pile of shit. worse, it's stupid. Obama hasn't

chosen a single fucking cabinet memeber, einstein.

liars make me puke.

[IndianaJones]

21. must suck for you that a centrist is gonna be in the White House. bwaaa. nt.

[NMDemDist2]

28. yeah, I was thinking along the same lines. Obama is no flaming progressive himself

he's pretty damned centrist himself.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. "Triangulation" to the right...again?

The best that can be said of Obama is that he is not a Clinton and his attachment to the DLC is not as binding.

[Greyhound]

26. Yes, and just like their brethren in the Republik party, they immediately begin stealing credit

for the work of others.

At some point we will have to leave this party altogether and let them whither and die, for though they will never admit it, they can't win a city council seat without us. Unfortunately, that will leave the country in the hands of Republiks in the meantime.

[Phred42]

27. DLC, Centrist? you're kidding right?

:crazy:

[gulfcoastliberal]

30. Caroll Quigley...

The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to the doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can "throw the rascals out" at any election without leading to any profound or extreme shifts in policy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carroll_Quigley

[Leopolds Ghost]

65. Lovely ideology. I assume the "radical centrists" on this thread agree with her.

[rhett o rick]

32. I am curious what you expected? This country isn't progressive.

Did you see how many millions voted for McCain? And then if you figure those that voted for Obama where at the most only half progressive. You are looking at best 20% of the voting public are progressive. Granted we progressives worked our asses off to get Obama elected, but if we expected him to become progressive then we are fools. We voted against McCain and the rightwing wackos. and we succeeded. But we didn't get a progressive President.
We need to keep the pressure on.

[New Dawn]

33. K&R

[Mampula]

35. Centrists are ok

I respect those in the center, but Obama was elected because of his left-leaning proposals. Let's not be blinded by MSM conventional wisdom.

[GreenPartyVoter]

36. Obama himself is a centrist, so why does this surprise you? Not saying you are wrong. I am right

there with you on what you said. It's just that I knew we weren't getting a progressive this time around. :(

But who knows? Maybe people will be ready to move more to the left in a few more years, especially if we keep working for progressive ideas.

[bvar22]

37. Where is "The Center"?

Here is what the MAJORITY of Americans (Democrats AND Republicans) want from OUR government!

In recent polls by the Pew Research Group, the Opinion Research Corporation, the Wall Street Journal, and CBS News, the American majority has made clear how it feels. Look at how the majority feels about some of the issues that you'd think would be gospel to a real Democratic Party:

1. 65 percent (of ALL Americans, Democrats AND Republicans) say the government should guarantee health insurance for everyone -- even if it means raising taxes.

2. 86 percent favor raising the minimum wage (including 79 percent of selfdescribed "social conservatives").

3. 60 percent favor repealing either all of Bush's tax cuts or at least those cuts that went to the rich.

4. 66 percent would reduce the deficit not by cutting domestic spending but by reducing Pentagon spending or raising taxes.

5. 77 percent believe the country should do "whatever it takes" to protect the environment.

6. 87 percent think big oil corporations are gouging consumers, and 80 percent (including 76 percent of Republicans) would support a windfall profits tax on the oil giants if the revenues went for more research on alternative fuels.

7. 69 percent agree that corporate offshoring of jobs is bad for the U.S. economy (78 percent of "disaffected" voters think this), and only 22% believe offshoring is good because "it keeps costs down."

http://alternet.org/story/29788/

8. Over 63% oppose the War on the Iraqi People.

9. 92% of ALL Americans support TRANSPARENT, VERIFIABLE elections!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x446445

If the Democratic Party chooses to pursue all of the above as a "Centrist" Party, I will be more than glad to help.

OTOH, if I they choose to:

*Continue and expand the phony "War on Terror",

*Use our military to protect the Corporate (Oil) interests in Iraq (Permanent Bases).

*Increase the Defense Budget,

*Give more "Bailouts" to CEOs,

*Uphold the "Unitary Executive",

*Don't Restore the Constitution and roll back the Patriot Act,

*Continue and expand "Free Trade" in its current incarnation,

*Don't address the problem with unverifiable elections

*Don't address the problems of "Too Big to Fail" (healthy trust busting)

*Turn a blind eye to the criminal transgressions of the Bush administration


Well, then I will have a problem.
Right now, I am willing to go with the program,
but fool me too many times, shame on me.

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[defendandprotect]

38. That's corporate-fascists, please---!!!

[earth mom]

42. They really out themselves with their anti Michael Moore & Kennedy posts don't they?

:puke:

[LSdemocrat]

46. As far as I'm concerned, any and all Democrats should be welcome to the table

Progressives, liberals, DLC, and yes even the Blue Dogs are all valid parts of the Democratic family. We have way too many problems to fix to start having ideological purges. As far as I'm concerned, as long as there is a good mix of people in the administration, I'm not going to be too bothered by a few DLCers or Blue Dogs.

[Cleita]

48. I think we have seen those "other Democrats in name" enable

the opposing parties. Joe Lieberman stands out but there are many other shades of Joe there. We are the party of the working class, the unions, women, minorities and children. Those "other Democrats" need to go back to the people who pay them to infiltrate our ranks.

[LSdemocrat]

49. Except that the people your refer to as "other Democrats" are still justifiably Democrats

That those "other Democrats" are Democrats probably speaks more about how extreme the Republican party really is. The Democratic party's real problem in terms of ideology is that in any other western democracy, the groups that form the US Democratic party would really be 2-3 separate parties that may or may not form a looser coalition in an ideal situation. Due to how much more right-wing the US voting populace is and how much the US election system is geared to a two party system, the Democratic party has always had to rely on a remarkably wide coalition in terms of ideology to achieve success, which means that the party really does include centrists, Blue Dogs, and DLCers who may only vote with us 55% of the time.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Phred42]

52. POINT!

[Lilith Velkor]

55. Actually, they did

They are just unaware that they have already ceded it.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

53. So... what are you going to do about it? n/t

[fascisthunter]

56. awwwww

I will excercise my rights as a citizen and a liberal to influence this administration in way that probably rubs you the wrong way. And since the liberal/progressive movement is much larger and stronger than your phony "centrist" movement, I'll just bid you happy dreams.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

58. Well then.

I will excercise my rights as a citizen and a liberal to influence this administration in way that probably rubs you the wrong way.

No, what SPECIFICALLY are you going to do about it?

And since the liberal/progressive movement is much larger and stronger than your phony "centrist" movement

I don't consider myself particularly centrist. And I certainly don't consider myself part of a "movement." But you can call me whatever you like. You still haven't answered my question.

[jonnyblitz]

57. why shouldn't they when the president-elect is one of them?

DUH.

[JHB]

59. FDR said: "I like it. Now MAKE me do it!"

Keep the pressure on at all levels. A little arm-twisting reminds politicians that their supporters expect results.

[bridgit]

60. Geawd this same old tired centrist = DLC shit...

It's like children confused & arguing over what is a hop scotch marker, and what is a lawn dart, fuck! - it just never ends around here; yes, by all means necessary "Get ready liberals and progressives" if we play our cards juuuust right we can all be extras in the remake of Les Miz:

[QC]

61. We just elected a centrist president. Naturally centrists feel like they are in control.

They are.

Unfortunately, I would add, but that's the reality of the situation.

[bobthedrummer]

63. Yep.

[Leopolds Ghost]

64. No Larry Summers! No Rubinomics!

[katty]

66. not surprised, Obama never claimed the liberal/progressive title, he

he is pragmatic, centrist, more DLC'er.

[Hidden Stillness]

67. I Agree With the Worry of This OP

I agree with this worry, and have been feeling increasingly "depressed," if that is the word, since the election, as appointments and prospects for appointments have developed. Don't get me wrong, I was as thrilled as everyone else at the great election, this confirms an increasingly Democratic, long-term trend in the country, and if you notice, there is a huge, general call now, for a new New Deal, that even the corporate media is forced to ask Obama about.

I listened to a program that C-SPAN had a couple of days ago, (about an hour and twenty minutes), of news broadcasts from around the world, all of them of millions of cheering people, who overwhelmingly supported Obama and who welcome the return of the real America; I feel happy about life and reassured at the basic liberality/Democratic attitude of Americans, etc., but these appointments, and the fact that this is getting heavily "D"LC/Bill Clinton Admin., is distressing. They are describing this new stimulus package as related to the "financial crisis," "credit crunch," "giving investment banks liquidity," as if it continues to be an entirely corporate approach, as always with these corporate lobbyists--and 70% of Obama's contributions came from corporate "bundling," not "the people," (Kathleen Hall Jamieson, on recent Bill Moyers). Again, I agree with the worry of this OP, and hope that Obama will be pushed by circumstance and the (liberal, populist) will of the people, to actually get the corporations out of the system, and address the people's increasingly threatened situation. Good luck; we in the Midwest need jobs programs, and direct cash payments.