Gay Myth #1 “Passing.”

[bluedawg12]

My DU brothers and sisters, I have been asked to cross post this from the GLBT forum where it has garnered some lively...ah.. discussion. :)

peace-
bd 12
....
Gay Myth #1 “Passing.”

This in the hopes of shedding some light for our straight brothers and sisters, who in the present and future will stand with us in solidarity in our fight for civil rights and human dignity.

Some say that our fight for civil rights and for affirmation of our intrinsic human dignity as gay/GLBT people is nothing like the black civil rights movement. After all, they claim, gays can “pass.”

Is that really true?

It is not and here’s why.

While it’s true that external physical characteristics are visible on sight, the search to identify the “other” between strangers lasts longer than a few seconds.

First, consider that some gay brothers and sisters express who they are in ways that signal their sexual orientation on sight. The way we talk, move, carry ourselves is a part of how we see ourselves and goes back to our earliest days of identity formation.

Next, even if we pass, even if we embody the “norm,” the manly- man and the feminine- woman stereotype, on sight decision making is just the first step in identifying a stranger.

Once conversation ensues, the most basic questions we are asked as adults by strangers trying to form an opinion of us are the things that might bond us. So, naturally and often times on purpose when suspicion is aroused about the newcomer’s orientation, the questions come as follows:

“Oh. Are you married?”

“Does you husband/wife work?”

“Do you have any kids?”

In social settings among strangers these questions flow naturally. However, if the answer does not fit expectation, a puzzled look follows and opinions are formed quickly.
It does draw curiosity when a man or a woman is not married after a certain age. The stranger’s mind beings to calculate the options that may explain why a 40 year old male/female has no children and is single. One of the options that come to mind quickly is, “They’re gay, by gosh.” (LOL)

The worst ramification socially may be that the person sees you as gay, is bigoted and moves on.

However, life is not all about social pleasantries and life is not at all frivolous.

When those same questions come up during an interview with an insurance agent from whom we seek to buy health insurance, they are taking our measure and calculating their “risk.” One may never know why they were denied health or life insurance.

Earning a gainful living is a matter of survival and dignity. In the course of a job interview, those types of questions, often brought up casually, may play into decision making about hiring someone. It impacts our livelihood, our daily bread and butter.

If you are single and over a certain age that is a “red flag” for some employers.

If you happen to mention a “room mate,” “house mate,” “partner” “best friend,” etc., that is also red flag for some employers

The potential employer or some personnel (HR) director is weighing your fitness to be part of “their team.”

If they are bigoted you may never be called back, never hired, never promoted and you will never know why. But, you may have a sick, gnawing feeling in your gut, that it was nothing you did or failed to do, but it was because of who you are in the most private, most basic place in your soul, it was because of who you love.

Consider our homes. Where we live is where we are most exposed and most vulnerable. If the neighbors are bigots, if they are homophobic and have prejudice–that is if they pre-judge you- it’s not the social hurt of being snubbed that gays worry about, it’s the reality of possible harassment in your own home, the possibility of hate crimes in the dead of the night to your own body or to that of your loved ones, partner or pets. Is that too severe, too unlikely? Not really. Consider why gays leave small towns in exodus to the relative safety and anonymity of large cities.

Well, how about a simpler example of how being gay can be a source of separation and division from the normal social safety nets.

Where you live you cannot hide, you cannot pass, as neighbors see you and your same sex life partner day after day and have their “suspicions,” that may lead to pre-judgement - to prejudice.

If they are homophobic and ostracize a gay couple, that couple is out of the loop of neighborhood good will, good neighbor relations, out of the loop during a storm, a flood, one can’t call for help from the bigots next door when one is alone and falls off a ladder, injured.

No gays can’t “pass” for more than a few minutes.

Thanks to the right wing’s deliberate hate baiting, gay baiting tactics in their quest for power over the last eight years, many homophobes are on high alert, many have a heightened sense of vigilance for gays. They feel threatened, are frightened, they don’t want gays around their work place or as neighbors or around their kids. These folks actively seek to unveil a person’s sexual orientation with a sense of zealous righteousness. They make a point of asking about marital status, marital history and whether or not you have kids. They are not asking because they want to be friends with a gay person, they are on patrol, they see it as protecting themselves and their family and yes, some see it ,and quite dangerously so, as “ protecting America and our values from gays.”

In Nazi Germany, under the Third Reich, they were aware of Jews “passing.” Of the possibility of not looking Jewish, taking on a Christian faith and changing to a name that would “pass.” So they enacted blood protection laws. Laws that required proof of Aryan blood lines going back generations.

In the South, similar tactics were used to ferret out blacks who appeared white, but were suspect. They used a “blanch” test, pressing on the skin to see if the underlying pigment were Caucasian white, to determine if this was a suntan, or was this a person of mixed blood? I saw the blanche test used just seven years ago in the heart of Dixie.

It’s true that external attributes are apparent on first sight, but that only matters when passing a stranger on the street. The moment we engage in dialogue with a stranger they read us, as we read them, and if they are homophobic they will seek to uncover a person’s sexual orientation and can do so in minutes.

The ramifications of uncovering that identity and how that plays out is a topic for another thread, but suffice it to say that the ongoing struggle for dignity, for civil rights, for fairness under the law is not a trivial undertaking to be dismissed with a cavalier,”Oh well, you can always pass. No one can see you are gay, it’s not like skin color.”

It is not true that gays can pass. The only difference to bigots is how long it takes to get there in time, wether it’s on sight in a matter of seconds or after a few casual questions, a matter of a few minutes.

[stray cat]

1. Those of us who are single and heterosexual get the same questions

[bluedawg12]

3. Yes and then they know you're OK.

The questions are natural the most basic attempt to bond, it's what people ask each other all of the time.

And they reveal who we are.

When gays get asked that question, there really is no passing. No hiding. Even if a gay person doesn't look gay, the world figures it out quickly. That's my point.

Of course the other question is, even if we could pass, why should we have to?

However, we really can not.

[hfojvt]

22. how do they know we are okay?

Isn't every single person over the age of 30, suspect? And as for neighbors, even in the small towns where I lived they have mostly kept their distance (who knows what they are saying behind my back). Plus, as far as partners go, I have had male roommates 5 different times (mostly during college but heck, if I thought I could find somebody that I could trust, I would not mind sharing living expenses and stuff.) Heck, many GLBT people have kids from former hetero marriages or relationships so they have a better chance of passing for hetero than I do.

As far as "why you should have to" many of the attitudes that you talk about are not really possible to legislate, are they? What do you expect the government to do about a homophobic neighbor or co-worker? Take them to room 101 and re-educate them?

[LWolf]

31. Not necessarily.

If you are single, straight, and not actively engaged in the "dating" game, people often assume you are gay.

As that single, straight woman, I can tell you this:

At every social event I am invited to by people who don't know me or my life story, I am encouraged to "bring someone." Or, "bring your partner." Showing up alone makes people uncomfortable in a world where everyone pairs off. It also denies them the opportunity to assign a label.

I live in a community that is overwhelmingly married. I cannot tell you the last time I met a man without a ring on his finger, unless you count my two adult sons or my local handyman, who is single because he's an adhd alcoholic who can't maintain jobs or relationships.

Many of the people I work with assume I am gay because I am not "in circulation," so to speak, and I show up to social events, where everyone is there to show off their families, alone.

Also because I'm a strong, blunt woman who doesn't cover the gray or wear makeup, or wear dresses unless forced to.

Yet, I am undeniably straight.

The difference? They can never confirm their suspicions, because there is never a partner to confirm it. That, and my role as mother, grandmother, and my two failed marriages, of course. {Not that gay people don't sometimes marry and procreate, lol.) So I don't suffer the level of bigotry that gay people do.

But there is still a distinct, suspicious, social separation that occurs.

[LostinVA]

7. BVut, you've never lied about being with someone, or felt that "catch" when you're asked

And wonder,"Can I tell them the truth? Will I be fired? Is my boss acting different?"

I had to lie about my FUCKING WEDDING to get teh day before off, because I had only worked there for a few weeks and was afraid of beinglet go if they didn't want someone gay there. CAN YOU IMAGINE NOT EVEN TELLING YOUR COWORKERS AND BOSS YOU'RE GETTING MARRIED??? Being afraid to submit your marriage for teh company newsletter?

The HELL "you get asked the same questions." No, you don't.

[JVS]

10. Yup. The questions are the same, the answers might be the same, but the experience is WAY different

[LostinVA]

14. Thank you --I mean that

[bluedawg12]

17. On edit: I jumped ahead..but about being asked our status

the consequences are still out there even today in 2008.

Forget the military for example. Or it might cost you that job, or promotion.

[donco6]

13. Of course. Everyone does. That's the point.

But have you ever had to catch yourself, avoiding telling the questioner that you actually live with a partner of 11 years? Do you avoid using the word "we" in stories because you know it leads to "so who did you go with?" Have you had to hide virtually every personal facet of your life because it's far too risky to be open in certain situations?

I was inducted in Rotary a few weeks ago (for work, don't ask). It's not completely conservative - I have a number of Dem allies there, so it's OK. But, there were two other guys inducted with me. At the end, they surprised me with, "So, why don't you share something about yourself - do you have a family?" The other two jumped right into wife Carol, kids Bobby, Cindy, Peter, Marsha . . . but when it comes to me, I'm "single". I like dogs. I like to travel. It's sickening.

So the fact that you're asked the questions isn't the point. It's what you have to do when you are asked the questions that's the problem.

[MtUpWithWngsAsEgles]

23. I don't get it

Sounds like you are ashamed of who you are. Maybe I am different. I work with 2 guys that I suspect are guy and one woman that I suspect is a lesbian. I treat them the same way I treat everyone else. And they have answered these types of questions without hesitation.

[donco6]

24. They know they're safe with you.

And that's really easy to say to someone (i.e., "you're ashamed of who you are") when you've never had to face it yourself.

But imagine standing in front of a room of 40 to 50 people, 3/4 of which you know are conservative Republicans - but none of which you know well. And in front of this group, you're asked to share some personal information. For most people, the question of family is as innocuous as "what color are your eyes?" That's not the case here. Because of my job, I have to work with most of these people on various intergovernmental issues - Chief of Police, Fire Chief, head of the library district, water board, bankers, etc. Am I safe to reveal my orientation to them? Probably not. What impact will it have on my school district . . . on my position . . . if word gets out that I'm gay? It wouldn't be good, I can tell you that from 20 years of experience.

On the other hand, I am out to the people I work with. Everyone knows and it's not a problem. But it's just not safe to be too cavalier in my business.

And, no, I'm not ashamed of who I am.

[MtUpWithWngsAsEgles]

27. You know...

I didn't know that companies in the US could still fire people for their sexual preferences. Has there been any movements to change that.

All I know about you is what I read in the post so my post was just a naive opinion from what I read. You are not in an enviable position but perseverance is the key. If you want something bad enough then you should fight for it with all your might.

I also feel that the argument needs to be re framed. I think people are voting against homosexuality and not against equal rights. Don't know if that makes sense but... not much does these days.

[donco6]

25. Oh, and I know Isaiah 40:31. n/t

[MtUpWithWngsAsEgles]

28. Do you believe it?

[xchrom]

2. recommend -- and i'll repeat what i've sad in your last thread

-- lgbtiq might LOOK like the struggle for racial equality -- but they are not in the same ball park AT ALL.

you begin -- in a very small way -- but important to open that door here in a public forum.

[bluedawg12]

6. xchrom- They share this: it is about civil rights

they are not identical struggles, but none the less they share this, human beings fighting for what they believe constitutes: life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

If we get into "ball parks" and I am not sure what you mean exactly, although in light of history the genesis is obviously different, still, all people have a right to demand fairness.

I have some other ideas for other myths next. This is but one small thread, focusing on one small issue.

My goal is to dialogue and build understanding and solidarity. Or at least, I will not know if that is possible, until I try.

peace

bd12

[xchrom]

9. i agree with most of what you say -- but apparently ball parks a re very important --

i.e. civil rights turf -- who gets it and who doesn't get

that's just human.

the further gains in rights by groups x, y or z are easily seen as a kind of turf infringement or all sorts of things.

more there is very very real sexual bigotry in minority communities that you could very easily let off the hook if you keep with the logic
of your last response to me.. -- and i'm pretty sure you know better than that.

[bluedawg12]

15. xchrom- My notion is to impart a sharing of ideas

and experiences and I think there might be other myths to explore.

Look, this whole topic is so complicated, sexuality, religion, politics, that my thought it to discuss things in steps.

I do want to look at other myths surrounding the GLBT community/life/movement, after all, we both know the RW have been busy little beavers disseminating lot's of false information, for decades.

This just seems like the right time. We have, on the one hand, the enormous sense of pride in the kick-@ss win by President Elect Obama, and then, as if one cue, the RW comes out of the wood work with their three State push and now we have this bitter-sweet moment in the GLBT community.

So, we have the right man in the White House and for the first time in a long, long time, I don't feel the country is going to fall apart. Maybe this is the right time to do some more work on issues we couldn't focus on during the long dark night of the last eight dumbya years.


Keep those comments coming. It keeps me sharp and in truth, I learn a lot from everyone else when they pose questions.

peace
bd12

[xchrom]

19. then understand these fundamental truths --

first - lgbtiq equality issues are not the same as racial equaliy politics.

second voting for obama was not contradictory with 'yes' on 8.

you're nibbling at the edges but unwilling to cross over.

but i appreciate the effort.

[shaniqua6392]

4. Thank you for your post.

I gave me a lot to think about. I completely agree with your premise regarding your fight for civil rights and that of the black civil rights movement. Blessings and peace to you bluedawg12. :hug:

[bluedawg12]

8. shaniqua6392 - Thank you! Please know

that the same pride I felt and tears that fell when I saw President Elect Obama win the other night, drives me in reaching out and asking for all of us to work together on the issue of gay civil rights next.

I learned from the best-- President Elect Obama had some work to do and a case to make to the American people --to say the least. :)

I think I/we can learn from him and try to make our case step by step.

peace and :hug:

[shaniqua6392]

26. I am getting family and friends to donate to the ACLU

and other organizations that will bring forth the lawsuits that will end up in the Supreme Court. I look forward to some retirements out of the court once Obama is in office!! This is going to take time, money and patience.

[kenny blankenship]

5. Thank you for posting this here

The only way you can pass is if you are so deep in the closet you don't know you're gay. That won't work very long. You might wind up being practically the last to know it, but one day it will dawn on you, even if it takes other people telling you what the word is for people like you.

[bluedawg12]

11. Thank you blankenship - that is food for thought

for another thread idea. There are people who do that, they deny who they are and in the end they suffer greatly and often end up tragically. But, as I said, that mightbe another "Myth" thread.

peace
bd12

[readmoreoften]

12. Many of us can't even pass at a distance. That's why people get gaybashed on the street.

My GF is obviously queer from 100 feet.

[bluedawg12]

16. Exactly! I think Myth #2 will be about violence against gays.

It's out there and the RW rhetoric has emboldened people to dehumanize gays and exert physical violence upon us.

But, I am getting ahead of myself. Thank you for your comment. You speak truth.

[Ms. Toad]

18. Depends on whether I've cut my hair recently or not...

With waist length hair no one spots me - not even other gays. With earlobe length hair I get spotted from 100 ft. Odd that a little hair provides such effective camouflage.:crazy:

[theboss]

20. When my gaydar goes off, I assume it's a straight dude trying to get women to trust him

I'm strange though.

[johnaries]

21. The question isn't whether gays can "pass" - they shouldn't HAVE to.

Homosexuality can be seen readily in Nature. It is not a "choice" or a "preference", it is a natural trait just like being heterosexual is. Neither should be expected to "pass" as the other.

I'll admit myself that I didn't always believe this (becauase of peer and parental brainwashing), but as I got to know more homosexuals and started becoming more informed in general, I eventually saw the truth.

[bluedawg12]

29. This myth is STILL out there today.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-gayblack8-2008nov08,0,1601616.story

>>He understands that there are differences between the civil rights battles of blacks and gays: For one thing, he notes, gay people have a much easier time blending in. Still, he says, he thinks it's sad that "people do not equate one civil rights struggle with another."

Many black voters didn't see it that way.

"I was born black. I can't change that," said Culver City resident Bilson Davis, 57, who voted for Proposition 8. "They weren't born gay; they chose it," he added, reflecting a commonly held belief that many researchers dispute. <<


The idea is gays can pass and in fact, could chose to not be gay! That' still alive and well in 2008.

[renie408]

30. I don't think homosexual exclusivity occurs in animals.

I am open to examples if you have them, but while animals will display homosexual behavior and I have had animals that I considered 'gay couples'; given the chance to reproduce with an animal of the opposite sex, they would take it. I have lived around and raised animals my whole life. I had a pair of mares that were a 'gay couple'. They stayed very close to each other if given the chance and frequently engaged in mounting behavior. At one point, the mares were separated for about six months. The field that Juno was in ran along the driveway to the barn. When Mimi was being brought back home, she started calling when we slowed down to turn into the barn driveway (she was a screamer. She would scream every time the trailer slowed down). Juno heard her and came flying across a fifteen acre field to trot and prance along beside the driveway 'whuffing' the whole way. Whuffing is when a horse makes a deep, throaty, breathy noise that mares make to their foals and stallions will make to mares when they are flirting with them. Then they were rubbing all over each and, yes, mounting each other as soon as we put Mimi in the field. BUT...when I put both those mares into a natural pasture breeding program, they bred with the stallion. They preferred each other's company, but they were open to being bred by a member of the opposite sex.

Anyway, human beings are much more complex than animals. I do believe that humans have natural attractions to one sex or the other. I don't think it is a 'choice' the way it is portrayed by the religious right. But I also don't think that you can use animals as a good example of homosexuality being 'natural'. I guess animals are more inclined to be bi, but not strictly homosexual.