I'll call out some damn fool minorities in California that helped pass Prop 8 - Asian Americans.....

[IndianaJones]

I am hearing that my people went about 50/50 in the voting on Prop 8. I am disgusted and ashamed by this.

My mother came to this country at the end of the 60's, when bigotry and hatred against Asians was high due to Vietnam. Everyone with yellow skin and slanted eyes was a gook or "charlie". She married a white man from Virginia, my dad. Yeah, Virginia as in Loving versus. Law that made it a felony for whites and non-whites to be married and later struck down by the Supreme Court as an obvious violation of the Constitution. Quote: Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man,".

Now I see that people of color are voting to do the very same thing to a fellow group of minorities that white people had done to them for centuries? I'm not going to speak to the African Americans or Hispanics that are lining up with the very same people that saw them as sub-human not very long ago and still do today for that matter. But I'll call the Asian Americans that voted for this disgusting proposition what they are - bigots, homophobes, idiots, a disgrace to their race. And if people don't like it...I don't care.

I view gays as fellow minorities, struggling for equality and acceptance along with the rest of us in our hateful society. They have fallen behind on the long march, and instead of lending a hand or picking them up and carrying them, we are kicking their feet out from under them. I don't know what it is that motivates this. Religion, tradition, a desire to kiss the white mans ass because there is a minority out there that we can all hate on. Anyway...people of Asian descent played a big roll in this travesty and I will call them on it. Ramble off.

[dsc]

1. um if only Asians voted that day the issue would have failed

49% is less than, not more than, 51%.

[IndianaJones]

2. I'm saying that even 10% would be too high. 50/50 is unacceptable. nt.

[xchrom]

3. dude -- where were the big wigs from the democratic party? -- i mean seriously --

you're gonna call out asian americans before howard dean et al?

puuh leez:eyes:

[IndianaJones]

4. I'm gonna call out those that should know better. And these people should know better. nt.

[xchrom]

5. well then you better go knock on fuckin howard deans door first. nt

[IndianaJones]

6. gotta admit...I don't expect much from white people on minority rights, but some should know better.

[marmar]

9. As an African American, I understand IndianaJones' disappointment with "his people".....

.... because I feel it to. Frankly, we should know better, but the eternal mindf*ck of organized religion won't go away.

But you're right. Where were the Democrats and the other liberal groups? No on 8 shouldn't have had to rely on Brad Pitt for money and attention. A friend of mine in the Bay Area says the No on 8 effort was pretty disappointing overall.

[bliss_eternal]

15. Religion --the gift that keeps on giving...

:eyes:
...it "is" an eternal mindf*ck. Seriously.
So many African Americans don't even question why they are Christian, Baptist, Catholic or whatever...It was given to them by their parents, grandparents, etc. and accepted w/out question. I've seen (and known) truly unhappy black women that don't seem to really be in sync with all the teachings of the church, but they are so afraid to even consider why. They know nothing else but "church" and "being dutiful" etc. It pisses me off, as I recognize religion/church was given from slavery--a way to "keep the darkies in line." It would seem to still function in such a sense, in elections--for wedge issues.

It's frequently difficult to achieve support or maintain friendships w/other AA's when you aren't religious. :(
I can't tell you how many friends I've lost because I refuse to allow religion to dictate my beliefs for me. People that seemed to only be dissatisfied with my uber liberal stances, but certainly not my actions or behavior as a friend.

One friend told me,"...you are kinder and more compassionate than most of my christian friends." But still she walked away, and I know it's because I refused to renounce certain things as "sinful." :shrug: They get really bent about that "unequally yoked" crap.

Frustrating and sad.

[marmar]

18. Yup. I know lots of people, black women in particular, who disagree with the church.....

..... but at the same time view it as some form of betrayal to leave it. And I understand the whole "church family" concept, but there are other churches, more progressive ones, out there.

Sorry to hear about your friend. Maybe she'll come to the realization that intolerance is sinful - I mean, was there a more open-minded figure than Jesus Christ? The disconnect astounds me.

I do believe in some kind of God, or higher power, or energy or whatever one chooses to call it, but I cannot stand organized religion.

[bliss_eternal]

22. Thank you--but it's totally ok.

...if she couldn't see how awesome I was, it's her loss. :P Haha! Kidding!

The dissatisfied, unhappy women do seem to view it as a betrayal. It's so strange, yet complicated. There was an article in Essence about this a while back. But it kind of tip toed around the issue, which disappointed me. I feel for them, but we can't help anyone that won't even admit there's a problem for fear of seeming "unfaithful."

Organized religion sucks. It seems to be the last accepted form of brainwashing. :scared:

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. To keep the record straight, sort off

at the tail end of the campaign there were robo calls from Clinton and Obama against it, and Feinsten was part of the add campaign

too little, too late, but they were there

:-(

Reality is the no on 8 also failed miserably to frame this and started going on the defensive way too often

[theoldman]

7. Asians in America are divided into two classes.

Some Chinese have very little or no religious beliefs at all. Others are very religious and follow the old testament belief that homosexuals are sinners. Most of the Asians that I know fall into the later group. Chinese and Koreans generally attend Baptist Church's that tend to be fundamentalist.

[IndianaJones]

8. I know why they vote the way they do...it doesn't mean they aren't bigots. nt.

[theoldman]

11. Of course they are bigots.

Aren't most religious people bigots?

[IndianaJones]

12. its not all religion. sometimes its just plain hatefulness. nt.

[natrat]

14. jeez good luck with that mix

[bliss_eternal]

16. Is it merely two classes?

...seem to be some sub-sets based on money, status, etc. If an asian family has obtained a level of wealth, frequently there's a tendency toward conservative views.

:shrug: But it's so hard to say. We can't really typify anyone. For every rule or belief about a group of people, it seems there are several people that blow such beliefs out of the water.

[IndianaJones]

17. I think Asians are very much like blacks, very conservative socially...

probably having to do with religion and traditions from "the old country"

[la la]

10. Vietnamese, supposedly

were 'block-voters' for Yes on 8. At least in my area--many of them are Catholic, which could also be a reason--who knows.....

[IndianaJones]

13. lots of Korean "fundies" involved too, I am sure. nt.

[Liberalynn]

19. I call out any American who voted for it period.

At one point women were treated like second class citizens too. They were not allowed to own property, had their children stolen from them, and were beaten without reprisal, and denied the right to vote.

I was told just ten relatively short years ago on a job, that my opinion didn't count because I was a woman without reprisal.

Yet other women voted for Prop 8 and other proposals like it.

In history, Irish men and women were told they were worthless drunks and told they need not apply. Italians were called derragtory terms and accused of supporting Mussolini at one point in America. Catholics themselves were called anti-American papists.

As an Irish, Scottish, Italian, descendant, for shame on every single one of you who voted yes on Prop 8 or any proposal like it. How would you have felt were you alive back in the time when our ancestors were treated like less than dirt, about someone who had voted against your rights?

How dare any one of us, whose ancestors were treated like second class citizens, or treated with any thing less then respect ourselves because of someone else's narrow minded bigotry ever vote to deny any other person, equal rights and protection under the law? Its our duty to stand up for our fellow citizens rights. How dare we not live up to that duty? How dare we make excuses for any one who voted for 8 and any other hate law like it.

I don't care whether being gay is against your personal religious beliefs or not. You still don't have the right to deny any other person their rights. If you truly think you have the right to designate any one as a second class human being, then you really aren't worthy of the sacrafice any of our civil rights leaders of the past, of all races, creeds, and gender made to secure your rights for you.

But that's okay, they were still willing to fight for your rights any way, so I too will respect and defend in my very small way your rights too.

Because that is what being any kind of AMERICAN is all about.

[bliss_eternal]

21. Hi IndianaJones...

...sounds like we may have grown up around the same time.

I grew up in a predominately asian community as a kid. The majority of my elementary school was pacific islander, chinese, japanese, korean, etc. Then a few black and brown kids, the least represented were caucasian kids (I think this was after a lot of "white flight" out to the 'burbs). ;)

Anyway, I have fond memories of my elementary school experience and I owe that to my teachers. All of my teachers were asian women--most had their doctorates, or were working toward them. They were so damned awesome--they taught all of us that we were minorities, and in it together, and not to take shit from the man! It was so great, but in a weird way it spoiled me, as I grew up w/the expectation that all minorities would have my back, and it's just not always the case. :( I don't know how many minority teachers are like this anymore.

I still remember my teachers quizzing us on "the right" way to vote. Dr. Shimada standing in front of the black board going down the ballot asking what the appropriate vote was in each category (yes, all the Democratic choices!).


:hug:Hang in there. We'll all get through this together. :hi: