Leopolds Ghost
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Fri Nov-07-08 01:48 PM
Original message |
Poll question: "We Elected A Centrist President" Is It Centrist To Support FISA? |
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Edited on Fri Nov-07-08 02:26 PM by Leopolds Ghost
Feel free to suggest what right wing Bush policies you expect to see rolled back WITHOUT complaint from so-called "centrists" on this board.
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Cessna Invesco Palin
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Fri Nov-07-08 01:51 PM
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rucky
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Fri Nov-07-08 01:54 PM
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2. I'm confused. FISA's been around for awhile. |
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So does "supporting FISA" mean FISA before Bush, or Bush's bastardization of FISA?
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Leopolds Ghost
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Fri Nov-07-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
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There were problems with FISA before, such as the "roving wiretaps" clause being used to track non-suspects conversations in criminal cases, but those were not the problems Bush was trying to solve. The problems Bush and the Bush-centrists saw with FISA was that it didn't allow enough warrantless wiretapping to make the generric spying on all Americans legal. And since Bush I kicked off the project to make it possible to track all communications, clearly the 4th Amendment was outdated, just like some on the left think the 2nd and 3rd are outdated.
(Interestingly, we violated the 3rd Amendment in Iraq and nobody said anything, so I guess it's still needed.)
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Occam Bandage
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Fri Nov-07-08 02:20 PM
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6. I was unaware that Constitutional rights extended to Iraqis in Iraq living under Iraqi law. |
Leopolds Ghost
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Fri Nov-07-08 02:22 PM
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7. I thought the purpose of the Iraq war is to extend American freedoms to Iraq. |
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What other justification can there be for supposedly centrist folks not wanting us to leave immediately because of the immorality of it all?
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Occam Bandage
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Fri Nov-07-08 02:25 PM
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9. I don't think you'll find anyone who believes |
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that the purpose of the Iraq war is to extend the jurisdiction of the United States Constitution to Iraqis living in Iraq.
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Leopolds Ghost
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Fri Nov-07-08 02:29 PM
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10. Don't you think the Bill of Rights are inalienable & include rights anyone should have? |
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Such as the right not to have American soldiers quartered in their house?
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Occam Bandage
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Fri Nov-07-08 02:33 PM
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12. If you're going to talk about universal rights, |
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then I would phrase the third amendment as such: "Persons have the right to refuse their government the right to quarter soldiers in their house during peacetime, and have the right to legal protection when their government must quarter soldiers in their house during wartime."
The Iraqi government of course has violated this, but if we want to talk about universal rights that the Iraqi government isn't exactly championing, then we have bigger fish to fry.
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Leopolds Ghost
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Fri Nov-07-08 03:42 PM
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15. Yep, I like to talk about them. ;-) |
Occam Bandage
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Fri Nov-07-08 02:19 PM
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4. FISA has been around for decades, so I would think so, yes. |
Leopolds Ghost
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Fri Nov-07-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
5. So you wouldn't support an attack on warrantless wiretapping. |
Occam Bandage
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Fri Nov-07-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
8. Depends on what we're talking about. |
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If we're talking about adding transparency guidelines and increasing internal checks to prevent abuses of power, then yes, I think that could be considered centrist. If we're talking about completely destroying the entire concept of FISA, then no, I do not think that is reasonable.
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Leopolds Ghost
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Fri Nov-07-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
11. You don't think it's reasonable not to have warrantless wiretapping of all communications? |
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What issues DO you think a progressive should focus on?
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Occam Bandage
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Fri Nov-07-08 02:37 PM
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13. I never said I approved of wiretapping all communications. Not sure where you got that. |
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The original charter of FISA, after all, allows warrantless wiretaps only so long as there is no substantial likelihood that the surveillance will acquire the contents of any communication involving an American citizen or lawful resident. While this is open to abuses, I think that strengthening the checks on that restriction is more reasonable than scrapping the entire system.
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Leopolds Ghost
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Fri Nov-07-08 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
14. What concerns me is the way they have set up an infrastructure that can only be used as a dragnet. |
Pastiche423
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Fri Nov-07-08 04:11 PM
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16. Thank you for posting the poll on this issue |
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Spying on Americans is not what FISA was created for. I do hope the bastardization of the bill will be corrected in the next congress.
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Augdog20
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Sat Nov-08-08 07:14 PM
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17. Times on Obama's centrist picks |
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Check out NY Times article posted to my blog; cites centrist trend: http://bluesunited.blogspot.com/
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baldguy
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Sat Nov-08-08 07:35 PM
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18. Not so much centrist as it is pragmatic. |
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The FISA vote was maneuvered to come up last summer to embarrass the Democrats. Obama chose not to take the bait.
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Wed May 08th 2024, 07:19 PM
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