Blacks didn't pass Prop 8 and The PROOF in numbers. Facts Belie the Scapegoating of Black People

[slampoet]

A fantastic bit of research for those that would rather find the truth by actually doing the math.

PLEASE give a good read to this wonderfully in depth article. It really confirms that ALL CALIFORNIA dropped the ball on this.








Kos: Facts Belie the Scapegoating of Black People for Proposition 8


http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/11/7/34645/1235/...



"There are only 2.26 million Black people in the entire State of California. We are just 6.2% of the entire population in this state."

" There are 7 times as many white people in California as Blacks.

There are nearly 6 times as many Latino people in California as Blacks.

And there are double the number of Asian people as Blacks."

"However, we do know that there are, so far, 10,325,615 total votes on Proposition 8, nearly 80,000 less than the total votes for the main event. For Black people to have been 10% of that vote, they would have had to cast 1,032,561 votes on the measure, whether for or against. In other words, Black Californians would have had to both had an electoral turnout at the polls of almost 90% AND have all voted on Proposition 8 (i.e, NONE could have been amongst the 80,000 who just skipped the Proposition on the ballot) to reach that number of votes.

Now, I am the first to concede that Black folks did indeed turn out in heavy numbers on Election Day. It was a thing of beauty. I cried when I got to the polls that day and saw lines I had not seen in decades. Honest I did. The first of many sets of tears I have shed over the election, including those shed when I learned that Proposition 8 had passed, and those shed since as I have watched the white racist vitriol and scapegoating that has taken place here at DailyKOS – where folks claim to be liberal – ever since.

But only a fool would believe that 90% of any voting demographic turned out on Election Day. Such a thing has never happened in our history. And it never will, since even in a country that has mandatory voting like Australia (i.e. you can actually go to jail if you don't vote long enough) they don't get more than 95%.

And it did not happen on Tuesday, either, when only 60.9% of the entire California electorate bothered to cast a ballot."

[amdezurik]

1. the only "vitriol" is coming from you

and a few others who seem to be an organized group trying to inflame hate and split the party. Plain fact is as a group whites went NO, barely, and other groups including blacks pushed it over the edge. is it ALL the fault of blacks? no, that would be silly to say that it would never have passed if whites had not been so fucking stupid themselves but to try to pretend their votes did not count is YOU making a racial attack.

[slampoet]

4. I was friendly in this post. You didn't read what was asked.

Last warning. Please read the numbers.

[obama44]

13. Some people can't be saved from their own ignorance

I thought your post was lucid and clear and made its point very well. Some people, however, are determined to demonize blacks to find a scapegoat. I wonder if these same people realize that whites voted for Bush in 2000, Bush in 2004, and even voted for McCain 55-43. Yep, McCain won a landslide among white voters, yet nobody is trying to scapegoat whites for their votes in the 2000, 2004, and 2008 elections.

[kwassa]

6. I think you are trying to split the party ..

you and those others who are singling out African-Americans as the cause of the passage of Prop 8 when that is a blatant lie. Every last person of every last ethnicity is responsible for their own votes, and AAs are probably less than 8% of the total yes vote on Prop 8, and bear no more than 8% of the responsibility. Singling them out as a primary cause is therefore RACIST.

What is the make-up of the other 92% of the yes-on-8 voters? Where are the massive number of threads about them?

[plaintiff]

15. Oh, more "I got mine, fuck you"

Funny how that works.

[kwassa]

22. Do you have a reponse for anything I actually wrote?

[Raineyb]

17. Did you look at what you posted? Pot meet Kettle.

I've seen several posts about Prop 8 since Wednesday and the majority of them have been scapegoating the black community based on one shitty exit poll. The least you can do is read the linked article which was quite thorough and puts the numbers into perspective.

Of course it's easier to blame an entire ethnic group but that will do nothing more than push away the 70% who did vote no. Why would anyone want to work with people who are so willing to use racist bullshit scapegoating when there's a setback.

Regards

[noiretextatique]

24. the numbers don't support your argument

at all. if you can provide some numbers that do, i would be most interested in seeing them

[bluestateguy]

2. White folks passed anti-gay marriage initiatives in dozens of other states

Let's put this in perspective.

[AndyA]

3. Is it too much to expect that one minority recognizes discrimination of another when they see it?

If it's wrong to discriminate against black people, women, or anyone else because they weren't born white straight males, it is also wrong to isolate a group and tell them they are not entitled to the same rights as other minorities.

There are idiots of all skin colors, sexes, and religions, but I would expect people who know first hand what discrimination is to be smarter than the others, and vote crap like this down.

[slampoet]

5. Sure but if you read the article you'll find Blacks had NO CLOUT in their Prop-8 vote.

They were statistically not there as a percentage of votes.


"The vast majority of the counties in this state have a percentage of Black residents of between 1 and 2% (and several have far have less than 1%). "

[amdezurik]

12. bullshit

each black voted counted just as much. Once again this preemptive attempt to blame ONLY whites and to not even pause to examine the disconnect in the black community to gays is on it's face deceptive. Again, I ask you to point to the vast number of posts you and a few others claim are on DU claiming that blacks and ONLY blacks are to blame? if you cannot produce them then you are only building a strawman to excuse behavior in one group by transfering it to another. 55% of ALL VOTING CALIFORNIANS are assholes on this subject. And sadly it seems about 70% of blacks went along with the lies hate and bigotry. Address THAT first. then go on to attack others for the same behavior.

As it is the dozens of threads saying the same thing and citing the same article or even more absurdly other threads echoing the same words offering that as proof is just making you and your group look like haters of the basest stripe. Whereever you are orginazing this, knock it off.

[jonnyblitz]

18. THANK YOU.

:thumbsup:

[Raineyb]

21. Blaming 6% of the population as though they were solely responsible is racist bullshit

If you refuse to recognize that simple fact there's no bloody point continuing the conversation. There are plenty of threads discussing Prop 8 and lots of individual posts to choose from. If you prefer to close your eyes to it that's your business. I do not.

Regards

[noiretextatique]

26. thank you for stating that so plainly

i concur. there are two issues people are conflating here.

70% of black voters voted YES on Prop 8, and that is disturbing. however, the numbers just do not support the notion that black voters are THE REASON Prop 8 passed.

[kwassa]

25. bullshit right back, the numbers don't lie. What about the other 92%?

Why don't you answer that damn question? Where are all the threads on the other 92% of yes voters?

WHAT? THEY DON'T EXIST? DU IS ONLY FIXATED ON THE BLACK VOTE?

Reference ANY group aside from blacks and Mormons that has been attacked on this forum.

and there is no organization, just a few individuals that see the unfairness you and others are trying to perpretrate.

Most noters don't say that blacks are the ONLY ones responsible, but then they ONLY talk about the black voters.

That is racist, in my book.

[slampoet]

AGAIN please read the article and you'll find it makes you feel better not worse.

I HAVE addressed it and you are being blind WILLINGLY.


If you read the article you would see i am trying to heal wounds.

[noiretextatique]

31. some people keep conflating two distinct issues

70% of black voters voted YES on Prop 8 = Prop 8 passed because of black voters.
the numbers simply do not support that belief.
maybe some people are surprised by the first reality, but as a black lesbian, i can tell you that i am not. i am saddened by it, but not surprised. nor do i feel betrayed because i was expecting it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. That cuts to the point of the article.

:rofl:

[Chovexani]

10. Yes, it is wrong.

What, then, is this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Knipp">asshole's excuse?

When a black lesbian objected to this clown, she received death threats. They weren't from straight people, by the way.

We have a long, long talk overdue in our community, but some would rather throw bricks than to have it.

[slampoet]

11. Man, i have been sitting on the Chuch Knipp stuff for 6 hours.....that is a whole can of beans.

I'm desperately trying to remain positive and not open the whoop-ass..

[Chovexani]

16. The sad thing is there is way more where that came from

I read one blog post today from a sister who brought up her frustrating experiences trying to start a GSA at an inner city Detroit school and how she was roundly ignored when she tried to get support from the local suburban LGBT orgs.

I could talk about the vitriol I've seen against Black pride events, and how I've taken shit from white friends for going to them (I go to all Pride events, I just like to party!).

I could talk and talk. :(

[slampoet]

19. Plus i have about 35+ incidents where Gay Bars didn't allow Black patrons.

The saddest thing is that a few aren't even in the US. This seems to be a worldwide shame.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. Heard yesterday: "We elected one of you people president...."

"...and this is how you repay us?"

When I pointed out that the vast majority of prop 8 supporters were white, suddenly they weren't interested in "the facts."

[slampoet]

9. Exactly. My sister's wife, who is an engineer and understands the math, put it this way.

"If you blame blacks it is because you want to blame them, and the Mormons wouldn't have it any other way."

[Lilyeye]

14. Someone on KOS made a disgusting comment saying

"Dad..I'm no longer a N**** lover." This entire situation has truly broken my heart and put a damper on Obama's win. This is a time when we should be happy and celebrating. The fighting is really depressing.

[noiretextatique]

30. it just goes to show how much work we still have to do

there is something very odd (possibly racist) about the belief that black people are somehow better than other people. unfortunately, there are black homophobes too.

[noiretextatique]

27. black women alone are responsible for Prop 8's passage

because more black women are chruchgoers. this according to a Duer yesterday.
if people do the math, they would "get it" but they prefer to rage and blame instead.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. That can't be true.

Because somebody told me today that it's because of the hypermasculine sexist black churches.

Maybe the facts changed overnight.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

20. I'm hurt that this board recognizes some forms of bigotry and not others.

I just am.

[slampoet]

23. it realy hurts me how they treat disabled people too.

[noiretextatique]

29. thanks for posting this

while i am disappointed that so many black californians voted for prop 8, and i am also disappointed in all those who insist "black people passed prop 8." the numbers simply DO NO SUPPORT that belief.

[GeorgeGist]

32. Racial divisions will always be evident ...

when election results are divided by race. When the results are united, the SCAPEGOAT is democracy.

[slampoet]

39. AMEN.

[newtothegame]

33. I don't like that one particular race is being blamed for this but what really bothers me...

is that so many DU'ers are so self-loathing over slavery a century and half ago that an AA being elected president in the face of no physical barriers is more important than ACTUAL PHYSICAL BARRIERS being put up against GLBT folk's FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS more and more EVERY DAY. Forget about the rights lost on Tuesday, let's have a big fuckin party because the president looks different this time!!!

ed for sp

[noiretextatique]

34. what the HELL are you talking about?

i am a black lesbian...where do i fit into your worldview? i am happy we elected a qualified person for the presidency. i am elated that he is african-american. i am crushed by the passing of Prop 8.

no one gave black people in this country anything. the rights we enjoy today had to be forced by the courts. i know there were many white people who wanted the court decisions to support equal rights, but there were also some who didn't.

there are black homophobes just as there are white ones. the same is true for women, disabled people, and gay people. blaming and divisive anger is not going to solve anything.

[newtothegame]

35. And I'm a gay black male, but both are irreleveant to this post...

We are in the far minority on this site; didn't the survey a few years ago show that we are something like 97% white? I'm saying I don't need Skinner "congratulating" me because I look the same as Obama, while subsequently ignoring the fact that a great number of DU'ers were just classified as animals by votes like Prop 8. This isn't aimed at Skinner either, but he was only enlightened and reposted when DU'ers like myself spoke up.

[noiretextatique]

36. i appreciated his thread

the election of Obama is especially poignant for me as an african-american. that reality doesn't take anything away from me, a lesbian. i take solace in the fact the lawsuits have been filed to the same court that lifted the gay marriage ban. of course, that does nothing for people in florida and arizona.

[newtothegame]

37. Fair enough...

On to the fight. We shall overcome. :)

[noiretextatique]

38. right on, brother...the bigots will not prevail eom

[Generic Other]

40. GLBT community needs to keep raising our consciousness not their voices

The change will come. It's a new day in AMERICA. Obama's Supreme Court will decide ultimately.

Do not simply lash out at those who voted against Prop 8. We ALL need each other to rebuild the country.

Lift EVERY voice! Change is in the air.

When I was born I was issued a provisional birth certificate. I have never seen another like it. It basically stated I was an American citizen only as long as my father claimed me, that if before my 18th birthday he chose to divorce my Asian mother or reject me, I would revert to the country of my birth in spite of being born on American territory to an American father. My parents married the year the law finally legalized marriage between an Asian woman and a white man. My father faced severe opposition from his commanding officers for making this choice. I know what it feels like to have been rejected and labeled second-class in this country. My birthright as an American was not guaranteed. But I am still here and fighting for my rights as well as yours.

We need education not condemnation.