You know who's at fault for Prop 8? People like me.

[Midlodemocrat]

Straight, married, people like me.

(Not exactly like me, mind you, because I'm not a bigot in any sense, but you get the drift)

Regardless of your race, the straight community chose to deny rights to those who are 'different' from us and it makes me sick.

So, let's stick the blame right where it belongs, folks, with the heterosexuals.

[av8rdave]

1. Can someone please, please, please explain to me...

How preventing gay marriage protects "traditional" marriage.

I'll admit that I'm not necessarily the sharpest tool in the shed. I just don't get it.

[sutz12]

6. I'm in line to hear that one, too.

If someone's marriage is so bad that what someone else does "weakens" it, perhaps one should explore living alone.

:shrug:

[Midlodemocrat]

7. Well, I know, for me.

When Rosie O'Donnell married Kelly, I woke the next morning and exclaimed to my husband "OMG, we're still married".

So at this point, I'm guessing it doesn't. It's a wedge issue just like abortion. You know, from the morals and values party.

[gollygee]

11. I've been trying to figure this out

Once upon a time, the Catholic Church controlled Europe, and the Catholic Church had to approve every single couple before they could get married.

I think that's what is considered the ideal. Where some outside group - religiously motivated - decides if relationships are worthy of marriage. Now any heterosexual couple can get married, and I bet there are people who wish they could keep some of those marriages from happening too. But all they've got left at this point to keep from playing their reindeer games are gay people. It's like they're thinking, "So many people can get married who shouldn't. Anybody seems to be able to. And now gay people want to marry too? No way!" They're putting their foot down at this point or something.

So how do we educate people that someone else's marriage doesn't change anything about their own. That marriage isn't weakened by letting more people do it. That one group of people shouldn't get to decide this for another group of people. There's got to be a way to explain this that gets past the stupid stuff they've been taught.

[Midlodemocrat]

13. But what about the man on dog sex that will surely follow?

:sarcasm:

And, as far as I can see, gays can't fuck up the divorce rate any worse than the straights have.

[gollygee]

19. Yeah it's really stupid

"If gays get married, then anyone will be able to." You're right - that's the mantra, isn't it?

Really the answer to that is that if gay people can get married, then gay people will be able to get married. It will not cause brothers and sisters from marrying, or from people marrying animals or pieces of machinery, any more than Loving v. Virginia caused that. Because people said stupid stuff like that then. They (right-wing religious groups) lost some control at that point and didn't like it then either.

[av8rdave]

23. Yeah! And we all know that homosexuality leads to

pedophilia too! Surely there are studies to prove it!

:sarcasm:

[Clovis Sangrail]

18. fine

after 'the gays' started to marry in Ca pandemonium ensued.
Hetero marriages began to disolve under the strain and the divorce rate shot up 13000%
People were marrying chickens and cows in church
Dogs and cats began paling around with each other and with terrorists
Personally, my hair caught on fire and burned my skull so bad that I died.
(but I got better)

:sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

25. Gay marriage is just a tool the money people use to bring out their nutcase base.

It makes no sense so trying to find sense in it is hopeless.

It's just a cynical tool to get voters to the polls, imho. And since they own the media, they beat us there but good this time.

[Starry Messenger]

39. Exactly. They lost the abortion fight (for now).

This must have tested well in their focus groups. Now it's big money and votes. I wonder what human rights issue they will go after when they fail to prevent gay marriage?

[noiretextatique]

33. 18,0000 gay couples have been married in CA since May

and i don't think a single "traditional" marriage has been "unprotected" yet.

[Midlodemocrat]

38. Oh, I don't know about that.

If my husband puts the coffee grinds in the sink one more time instead of in the trash, he's out on his ass.

And, I'll blame teh gays.


:sarcasm:

[gollygee]

2. No doubt

What percentage of people who voted for Proposal 8 were heterosexual?

And yeah, I'm married and straight too. We're the ones who should be reaching out to our community.

[Midlodemocrat]

3. I would venture to say 100%. I can't imagine any GLBT members doing so.

[Gormy Cuss]

8. Oh, a few Log Cabin types probably voted for Prop. 8

They're so deluded that they may believe that a separate category of civil unions is the only acceptable way to achieve some marriage-like status.

[Midlodemocrat]

10. True, true. I hadn't thought about them.

Because I generally don't. :rofl:

[nichomachus]

12. I know one Log Cabinette and he's in favor of same-sex marriage

Of course, he's a kept boy and he just wants to make sure he gets daddy's stuff when the old man kicks the bucket.

[Sebastian Doyle]

16. Yeah, but they believe all kinds of delusional horseshit

or they wouldn't be Log Cabin Republicans in the first place.

And pretty much the same could be said of Black Republicans.

[Omnibus]

37. The same could be said of White Repubicans too. n/t

[Sebastian Doyle]

50. Yes, certainly most of them.

Except for that top 2% who benefit from their reverse Robin Hood bullshit.

[nichomachus]

9. I can

I have a "friend" I've known for 30 years. We used to be very close. He lives near me. About four years ago, we were at a party and I was in the living room ragging on Bush with all the people in the living room. He piped up from the kitchen "You don't think President Bush is doing a wonderful job?"

I replied -- or rather four vodka and tonics replied -- "No, he's a criminal and he should be in jail."

After that, he broke off all contact with me -- and was very chilly and always unavailable when I tried to contact him.

As time went on, there was sort of a thawing. We had lunch once or twice and stayed on safe topics. He started including me on his email list of Internet jokes, etc. He loves that crap.

So, when my partner and I got married Oct. 19, I sent him an invitation. His response "Sorry. I'm busy that day." End of email. No congratulation. Nothing. I haven't heard from him since. No more Internet jokes.

I'm guessing he could have vote in favor of Prop 8.

By the way he hates Gay Pride too.

[Clovis Sangrail]

20. you never know

Mary Cheney may have registered illegally in the state

[noiretextatique]

35. imagine this: i know a black lesbian who voted YES on 8

she doesn't "believe" in gay marriage. i told her she shouldn't say that again in a gay bar because she might get her ass kicked :grr: idiocy knows no color or sexual orientation.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

4. Ding ding ding! We have a winner. nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

5. singling out any group as responsible for this injustice is counterproductive. n/t

[nichomachus]

14. Oh -- I'll single out the right-wing clergy

This is their doing. And the Mormons lead the list.

[TomInTib]

15. I still blame the LDS and the Vatican.

Here in Marin, the Catholic Church had a huge Influence-the-Hispanic-Vote campaign going on.

I got an earful about it, the day after the elections were held, by this sweet woman who works at the local bakery. And she is as illegal as the day is long. She actually believed Prop8 would allow the "jotos" to adopt her children, should she be deported.

[Midlodemocrat]

17. Again, straight and married.

[mitchtv]

24. how about a name?

I'll see if i can help her go home. Americans like that we can do without

[TomInTib]

31. I was blown away.

She is so sweet, so attentive and caring.

But, she is one of those who, - if her Priest told her to - would sacrifice her own children on the altar.

The Church knows where to aim.

[AntiFascist]

21. There are plenty of heterosexuals who are on our side...

I'm actually surprised by the amount of support that I and my partner are receiving from neighbors and relatives.

Don't fall into the traps being set by the Religious Right, they are trying to divide and conquer us: gay vs. straight, black and latino vs. white, church vs. agnostics, any and every distinction they can conjure up. The truth is that it is the wealthy and powerful forces within the opposing churches which are trying to exert control over our lifestyle. This keeps the masses stirred up and fighting among one another.

[Midlodemocrat]

22. ?

Sorry, not getting what you're saying. Did you read what I wrote? Do you realize that I am one of the most vocal straight allies on this site? :shrug:

[AntiFascist]

26. Yes I get your post...

but there is plenty of blame to go around to the gay community as well. My major beef is that the leaders of No on 8 could have done a better job with all the money that was generously raised. The gay community could have been much better organized and the GOTV effort could have been much better executed. Those people involved in the grassroots efforts gave it their heart and soul, but it could have been much better organized and promoted.

On edit; misspelled soul :blush:

[Midlodemocrat]

27. Awesome! Let's blame the victim.

:thumbsup:


:puke:

[AntiFascist]

32. Wrong, the leaders of the movement are not the only VICTIMS!

they are given the responsibility to help rescue all the victims.

[LostinVA]

42. WTF??? Down the rabbit hole, Alice

And, leave Midlo alone. She is one of THE most vocal straight GLBT allies on this site, along with MrsG, Shakespeare, Strabucks Anarchist, etal.

[AntiFascist]

52. I'm not criticizing Midlo and I appreciate her support, I'm just taking issue....

with the point of this whole thread: if it was meant to be humorous then I think you ought to be careful because there is a lot of one group blaming another group going on with DU lately.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

44. It's popular around here

Last night, I was told that it's the gays fault that straight people don't support their rights. Apparently, because we're too pushing in asking for them or some such bullshit.

[LostinVA]

40. You are blaming the GAY COMMUNITY for Prop 8 passing???

And yes, I read your post.

[Midlodemocrat]

47. Thank you. I thought I needed a medication adjustment after reading that.

[AntiFascist]

51. No, I'm blaming the organizers of the No on 8 campaign...

for not spending all of the money that they raised wisely, also for not doing enough to organize and network the No on 8 supporters and promoting GOTV.

[plaintiff]

28. How about instead of "placing blame" we "assign responsibility"?

:shrug:
I know of a couple voting blocs that I have lost a lot of respect for, in any case.
:grr:

[Midlodemocrat]

30. Missed the point entirely, but thanks for playing.

:thumbsup:

[AlCzervik]

29. I am horrified that anyone would take rights away, wtf kind of thinking is that

how do you even get to that place where you are willing to amend a Constitution to deny rights to your fellow citizens? Can you imagine the outcry is someone proposed amending the Constitution so straight people couldn't get divorced?

[The Doctor.]

34. No, the blame belongs with the bigots.

Just because they happen to be 'straight' doesn't make me responsible for their hatred.

Hell, I've spent hundreds of hours showing some of these people the light... with results. I got one homophobe to admit that there is no harm in gay marriage after a lengthy discussion, and I will not stop.

Don't blame yourself just for happening to be oriented the a bunch of assholes are.

[Zhade]

43. Thank you for your efforts!

: )

[The Doctor.]

53. It's not enough...

You yourself know that I'm sometimes not 110% sympathetic with every grievance of my gay brothers and sisters, but I can't stand to see so many beautiful, wonderful, and brilliant people treated like shit for the heinous crime of wanting to commit totally to the ones they love.

Anything I can do will not be enough until everyone who does no harm shares equal, human, and civil rights.

So thanks for the thanks... even though I won't feel I fully deserve it until I find a way to change the world.

How sad it is that most of the homophobes are functionally and willfully illiterate, otherwise it'd be that much easier.



You might appreciate this.

It's one of my favorite stories, and I can't for the life of me find any reference to it on the entire web. IIRC, it was a short story in a sci-fi compilation. It might have been by Theodore Sturgeon, but I think the title was something like 'the lovers'.

To the best of my memory;

The Earth had it's first visit from aliens.

There were two of them, and they were simply beautiful creatures. They were human like, but slender, with large beautiful eyes, long golden hair, tiny mouths, and simply equisite to look at... but nonetheless alien. One was tall and beautiful, the other was smaller, beautiful, and less commanding a presence than the other.

The day they landed, the world was transfixed. All news stations covered it, and the whole world watched as they descended from their craft in silken robes, hand in hand.

They were obviously in love. They strode the world as emmisaries from the stars. Going everwhere together, exploring the world, and sharing everything with each-other, they were the epitome of true romance.

The world sighed with adoration. T-shirts and figurines of the pair sold globally. People talked about, were inspired by, and even tried to emulate the lovers.

Then one day another ship landed, and demanded that the pair were remanded to their custody.

The world leaders asked for a reason.

They said that the lovers were outlaws, and were an abomination.

"How...", said the ambassador, "are they dangerous to your culture? They have inspired ours. We have never seen a man and woman so in love. They've changed the world."

"Oh...", replied the aliens, "you don't understand. Here's what our females look like..."


They sent a picture of something very unlike the two lovers, and all was understood.


The point was nonetheless the same; When the world did not know what sex they were, they were worshipped for their love.


That is really how it should be. Love should be valued over social mores.

[hfojvt]

36. I am down with that

as long as I get to have a justifiable hatred of somebody.

Fortunately, as a straight, single person nobody's aiming brickbats at me. Right? :hide:

[Zhade]

41. And I'm betting you would never vote to take away our rights!

Kudos for this post - but I certainly don't blame YOU. : )

[justiceischeap]

45. Cartoon that says it all I'm afraid

[Toasterlad]

46. People Like YOU Are Not to Blame, Midlo.

Straight Californians had one responsibility to gay people on election day: voting no on Prop 8. Those that did so did their jobs; they have nothing to apologize for. This includes ALL straight Californians: white, black, Latino, Asian, women, men, young and old. Anyone who voted no on Prop 8 is entirely blameless, even by association. It is NOT the fault of "heterosexuals", as a group, that Prop 8 passed, just as it is not the fault of those African-Americans who voted no, or the old folks who voted no, etc, etc. It is not even the fault of the religious institutions who vote so hard to push their hateful agenda, as much as so many (including myself) would like to blame them.

Everyone who voted on Tuesday presumably had the ability to reason, to think for themselves. Those who let themselves be led into voting yes blew their responsibility to gays, to society at large, and to themselves; they cannot assign their share of the blame to anyone else. Those who thought it through and STILL voted yes are no doubt all to eager to take the blame, as well they should.

We've heard a LOT about blame this week, which is only natural, I suppose. But when it comes down to it, while it's important to find out WHY this totally fucked up proposition was passed (so we can tackle those reasons and eliminate them), it is unnecessary and counter-productive to try and assign BLAME. We know exactly where the blame lies. It lies with everyone who voted yes on Prop 8. Their motivations and demographics matter only insofar as it takes to understand and correct the issues that prompted their decision.

Let's figure out ways to correct the misconceptions of the ignorant people who voted yes, ways to drown out the hateful spiel of the evil people who voted yes, and ways to get the people who didn't vote at ALL to wake up and realize their country's freedoms are going down the shitter one state at a time.

[Midlodemocrat]

49. Thank you, but I don't know. I have seen such utter hatred

and bigotry since Tuesday it has taken my breath away.

Admittedly and Ashamedly, I wasn't really paying attention to Prop 8. Why? I thought it was a FUCKING GIVEN.

I can't believe I was that naive. I can't believe what happened in CA and Arkansas. It makes me sick.

But, maybe, just maybe there is light at the end of this deep, dark tunnel. All three of my kids, aged 18,16 and 12 are horrified that Prop 8 passed. Absolutely horrified.

See? It really isn't all that hard to raise tolerant children. You just can't be a bigot.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

48. I never

thought of you as a religious kook. Huh, go figure.

The religious straight nut balls... okay? Not you. Not me.