Obama is Technically Not an African American

[dynasaw]

Obama is Technically Not an African American as the way most Americans understand it. Not trying to be provocative, but We Dems like to be accurate right? He is partially an American of African descent, but he doesn't come out of the historical line of Americans of African descent, i.e., via slavery. History scholars also question whether he is the first American president with African ancestry. There is quite a lot of scholarship that supports the fact that Warren Gamalial Harding may have been the first American president with African roots.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/06/magazine/06wwln-essay-t.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

[gollygee]

1. Completely irrelevant and meaningless drivel

why do you post this here?

[TahitiNut]

47. We gotta make sure every human being (one each) is properly tagged and compartmentalized.

After all, how else to objectify everything human? (And NEVER, EVER ask the person being tagged! The Colonial Masters have the Final Solution.)

:puke:

[davepc]

2. Who fucking cares? He's TOO BLACK He's NOT BLACK ENOUGH!

what the fuck ever.

[KitchenWitch]

3. HMMM - no profile info - check! Welcome to my buddy list

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

4. His dad was African, his mom was American

but Warren Harding is more "African American" than Obama. Do I have that right?

[DesertRat]

5. We Dems?

Get lost.

[UndertheOcean]

6. So , whats the point ? for all I care he could be from mars ....

Its his policies that we should care about

[xultar]

Actually you're right and the only African Americans are Africans who have taken

the citizenship exam and become naturalized citizens.

[Bluebear]

7. Yes, "we Dems" like to be accurate.

:eyes:

[tekisui]

8. What meaningless post.

[Solly Mack]

9. lolololololol

[YOY]

"We Dems"??? Surely you use the wrong pronoun there.

...and a shockingly sad lack of commas and grammar in your ramble.

Warren G. Harding? Yeah...UNGAWA wit'ya epic fail post!!!

[ret5hd]

10. It must really really hurt...

And by the way, that's President Elect Obama to you.

[thereismore]

11. Maybe his white ancestors were slave-owners, so technically he may have come from

slavery. And technically, your post is moranic.

[kestrel91316]

37. Actually, his (and my)North Carolina Allred family back in the 1700s WERE

slaveholders.

[thereismore]

55. That's what I thought. The past is the past. We have a new President-Elect. nt

[Fuzz]

12. Good grief.

[Muttocracy]

13. well, at some point our evolutionary ancestors were in Africa, not that it matters. nt

[struggle4progress]

Yep. My whole family emigrated from Africa during the Pleistocene. I mean to go back to

check out how it's changed and get in touch with the relatives

[cali]

14. oh for fuck's sake. as if we haven't seen this moran shit from other trolls

before. And duh, Obama is the first man identified as a black man, elected to the Presidency.

You're pathetic.

[Stinky The Clown]

15. ....

:popcorn:

[mikelgb]

16. yeah you know us dems...

[Muttocracy]

17. that NYT article you point out doesn't support your comments either - RUMORS. nt

[Vickers]

18. Shouldn't this be in "General Discussion: Asshattery" ?

:shrug:

[marshall]

19. Technically Teresa Heinz Kerry is African American too

She made a point of saying there is a difference between an African American and an African-American. The hyphen (in her explanation) denotes a descendant of African slaves.

So in that sense Obama is an African American in the same way that Teresa Kerry is.

[Generic Other]

32. Your explanation makes more sense

And both then are Americans of African descent.

People are confusing race and culture. I would argue that much of Obama's young life was shaped by his being raised in his mother's culture as an Irish American, then in Polynesian culture as a Hawaiian. It was not until much later that Obama experienced his African culture; moreover, he is very much a part of African-American culture after living so many years in Chicago as a member of a large African-American community and family.

This is why sociologists argue that there is no such thing as race. It is not an identifiable biological difference. It is a cultural difference however.

And as Americans, we are extremely fortunate and blessed to have so many people whose cultural strengths contribute to our greatness as a nation and as an ideal worthy of striving toward.

[Donnachaidh]

20. that *scholarship* about Harding is propaganda

Put forth by the other side because of his abolishionist views. But thank you for Playing. :eyes:

One question dumbass -- do you KNOW the country Obama's father was BORN in?

[Lex]

21. oops, your slip's showing

[Donnachaidh]

22. is this that *resistance* Free Republic was planning?

Posting vomit on democratic boards?

[Ian David]

23. Depends on which race chose him during the last draft picks.

The Racial Draft

The Racial Draft, or Dave Chappelle's Racial Draft, is a controversial allocating system that first took place in October 2004. Dave Chappelle and Tiger Woods are credited with coming up with the system in order to settle debates about who belonged to which race. Since 2004, another racial draft was held in 2006 and another on July 4, 2007.

<snip>

Dave Chappelle took it upon himself to handpick every member of each racial delegation. He ran into problems selecting a spokesman for the white delegation. Chappelle insisted that he accept the duties and dawned whiteface for the job.

Tiger Woods used his contacts within ESPN to setup television coverage for the event. ESPN was originally slated to air the event, but public outcry from the Professional Golf Association and the Ku Klux Klan led to ESPN passing on the project.

After the pass by ESPN, Woods and Chappelle put the project on hiatus. With the success of Chappelle's variety hour on Comedy Central, he decided to use his contacts at the network to get the draft on air. Comedy Central refused but did say that it was a funny idea. Chappelle gave the network a decision to air the draft or he would pull out of his contract. Comedy Central gave in but said that there would be no promotion and adverstisement for the draft.

More:
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Draft

[LynneSin]

24. He's only HALF African-American. He's Irish too

and he's now our president

:woohoo:

[Generic Other]

33. And he's been adopted by the Japanese in Obama, Japan

When they put your face on the rice cakes, you are FAMILY!!

[charlie]

25. Swell

What else you got for us? We're technically a republic, not a democracy? Peanuts are not technically nuts?

[WiMu]

26. You want to be technical about it

We are all African American, some of us (whites, Hispanics, Asians,etc) took a different paths to get here. Well that is if you are not young earth creationist.

[tjwash]

27. Well...to tell a family secret, his grandmother was Dutch.

:P

[Jackpine Radical]

28. And Abe Lincoln is said to have had Melungeon ancestry.

And Andy Jackson may have had black ancestors.
Etc.

What the fuck is your point?

[rvablue]

29. This sounds like multiple threads over at FreeFuckPublic n/t

[bluedawg12]

30. Technically we're all of African descent. Just FYI n/t

[Tutonic]

62. Yes we are.

[Orsino]

31. "Technically" is the wrong word...

...when you simply mean to be provocative.

[democracy1st]

34. freeper post

[kestrel91316]

35. Were you born a complete waste of oxygen, or did you have to take special lessons?

[TygrBright]

36. Y'know, we really need a forum for running a pool...

...on when the pizza will be delivered to schmucks like this, hmmm?

Or maybe a "pinned" thread in the lounge?

I'll give 7:3 dynasaw's 'za arrives before midnight on Nov. 8th.

Any takers?

speculatively,
Bright

[malaise]

38. Rubbish he was born in America and had an African father

What is true is that he is not a descendant of victims of American slavery. Half his roots are African for goodness sake.

[slampoet]

39. BULLSHIT!! Then Powell isn't AA either because his folks are Jamaican.

[LostinVA]

50. I didn't know that -- then he isn't

[slampoet]

54. Mighty white of you.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

40. I always thought it was rude calling a black man black and not African American

[puerco-bellies]

41. Enjoy your stay..

Technically, I see a pizza in your future.

[Max_powers94]

42. you are Technically Not a DU'er

[Kind of Blue]

43. This post is nitpickety, persnickety and petty. How can he be "partially American"

when he was fully born here? :crazy: :wtf: :thumbsdown:

[DS1]

44. And you're not technically a troll, you just act like one

[Orrex]

45. But Dave Matthews is. How freaky is that?

:crazy:

[RedCappedBandit]

46. You lost?

He isn't an african american because his ancestors weren't slaves? right..

[LostinVA]

48. I actually just said that to someone today

A friend of mine whose parents are from Haiti always corrects people who call her "Adrican American." She's rightly proud of being from that area!

[rateyes]

49. Technically, he is. Father was Kenyan (Africa). Mother was American.

He was born in the U.S. African-American in the "technical" sense.

Any other assertion is pure bullshit.

[Ecumenist]

51. Not all African Americans who have descended from Black ancestors who

have been here on the American continent for at least 100 years have slave blood flowing in their veins. I proudly claim the blood of slaves AND FREE BLACKS! Not every black person that was living here in the US in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries were slaves. I have some ancestors that were NEVER enslaved and in fact, emigrated to this country from Africa in the same way that many other groups came here from their countries and continents of origin.

[cayuga]

52. Could we just call him a 'halfrican' and be done with it? n/t

[LostinVA]

53. I don't understand teh hostilty about this: Obama isn't African-American, as it's usually meant

I have friends and colleagues from the Caribbean who don't ID as AA either -- they call themselves Black. This is NO WAY diminishes any racism that either Obama or friends have experienced. Racists see them as NOT WHITE, and that's what matters. But the question of terminology is an interesting -- and valid -- one.

[Hekate]

56. We already had this stupid discussion here months ago. And Yes you are trying to be provocative. nt

[mirror wall]

57. Why is there so much animosity to this post?

What is it about the concept of people having complex racial identities that seems to break all of your damn brains so hard? This shit pisses me off.

Being a white/non-white half breed myself, I get extremely annoyed when people ask me "what" I am. They're never, ever satisfied when I tell them that I'm Finnish (if one were to go by the western standard of patrilineage-- my father's father and his before him, ad infinitum were all Finnish). I then go on to tell them that I am part Norwegian as well. Still blank stares. People only react with an "ohhhhhhhhhhhh I get it" when I tell them that I'm part East Indian by blood (and not even culture, that side of my family has been outside of India for five generations-- having passed through South Africa and Guyana en route to England and America) but my looks are darker than your average bear so that's what they want to hear. I was born in the States, and I'm way more Scandinavian than I am Indian (having been raised in Minnesota surrounded by my Scandinavian family and only seeing the dispersed members of my Indian family on weddings) and way way more American than I am either.

Calling Obama African American IS inaccurate in that the term "African American" -is- colloquially reserved to refer to people who were descended from African slaves who have been living in the country for generations. Obama is technically half Kenyan (Luo if you want to be really specific, just as my Indian ancestors are technically Sihk and Mughal) and half white American. I'm sure he knows which European stock(s) he has (I'm not certain).

Obama is the first mixed race president. He's the first half Kenyan president. He's one in a long line of European presidents. He's the first president whose skin is darker than white. He is also, through CULTURAL identity with the African American community whose bonds were forged throughout his late youth and there onwards, the first African American president. But only through cultural association, not by birthright. Honestly, if any of you knew African Americans and recent immigrants from Africa (and their children), you would see that there's a huge distinction between the two groups. In my hometown of Minneapolis, they don't even tend to get along well. We have a large, recent Somaili population and a decent sized African American population. They're often at each other's throats since they are at the same level of the socio economic ladder and are competing for resources.

Listen, what I'm trying to say here is that it's very frustrating for those of us with a complex racial identity to be pigeon holed into one slot. Obama is more Kansan or Hawaiian than anything else, having raised by a mother and grandparents of European descent. The dreams from his father were just that, hazy, illusory, distant images. Kenya is no more a prominent influence in his life than Guyana, South Africa or India is in mine. I have been to South Africa and India-- they both felt extremely foreign to me. Interesting and compelling, but the people seemed as exotic as any other non-western countries I've been to. But when I went to Denmark and Sweden last year I immediately felt at home (I still haven't been to Norway or Finland-- but I'm going at the end of December in the dead of polar midnight). The people there made a LOT more sense to me than any of the other Euros I've encountered yet, including the Brits! That's not to say that there is no influence from the distant more melanin enhanced parts of his past or mine, it is just to say that it is nowhere near as important as the mostly white lower middle class American milieu he and I were both raised in.

DISCLAIMER: No, just because I have a low post count doesn't mean I'm a troll. I have had this account for years and rarely post with it. The fact that I feel compelled to add this note is one of the reasons why I don't use this board much. If you still think I'm a republican troll, go ahead and visit my Flickr site and look up the photo I got of Clinton in Dakar. I work for his anti-HIV program in North and West Africa. I just felt compelled to share this perspective since it seems that no one ever talks about it.

[dynasaw]

58. I am amazed at the venomous response

I am as much an admirer or our president elect, but am not blind enough with hero worship to ignore some historical questions or go along with historical inaccuracies. Clearly some of your responses indicate you have ignored Beverly Gage's (she is a professor of history at Yale) conclusion in her NY TImes article:

"As he campaigns to become the nation’s first (openly) black president, Barack Obama likes to say that we’ve begun to put that divisive history behind us. The truth may be that we don’t yet know the half of it."

William Estabrook Chancellor's revelations about Harding were used as propaganda against him at a time when having African ancestry was a negative, just as were the vituperative pamphlets which contained innuendos and direct attacks relating to Jefferson's relationship Sally Hemmings. Historians eventually proved that social gossip among whites, as well as the underground history among slaves proved the relationship to be true. Scholars such as Annette Gordon in her history of the Hemmings of Virginia have also demarcated a clear lineage through the experience of slavery as the basis for the nomenclature "African Americans." There are now numerous people of African descent living in the U.S. who hail from the various nations of Africa, the Caribbean and South America who will tell you straight off that they are not "African Americans" but persons of African descent.

We have spent most of the last month decrying the ignorance and half truths spouted off by the Republicans so it is quite startling to have folks here on DU screaming about the irrelevance of what I have raised. The multiplicities of diversity are real in today's America. Obliterating difference in the name of unity is a negation the uniqueness of individuals and their respective communities. I personally find the "who cares what we/he/Obama is" attitude, and its corollary lumping of people into what we narrowly know as collective categories to be as divisive as the sort of arbitrary designations used by the ignorant right. Difference and recognizing difference matters. Working collectively around difference is the challenge.

[mirror wall]

59. Great points at the end there.

There are now numerous people of African descent living in the U.S. who hail from the various nations of Africa, the Caribbean and South America who will tell you straight off that they are not "African Americans" but persons of African descent.

We have spent most of the last month decrying the ignorance and half truths spouted off by the Republicans so it is quite startling to have folks here on DU screaming about the irrelevance of what I have raised. The multiplicities of diversity are real in today's America. Obliterating difference in the name of unity is a negation the uniqueness of individuals and their respective communities. I personally find the "who cares what we/he/Obama is" attitude, and its corollary lumping of people into what we narrowly know as collective categories to be as divisive as the sort of arbitrary designations used by the ignorant right. Difference and recognizing difference matters. Working collectively around difference is the challenge.

This board reflects the longstanding problem that America has with not being able to process "diversity" as anything much more than old European vs. old African descent. It maybe throws a "Latino" time and again, but it doesn't know the difference between a Mexican and a Cuban. Stick around DU for a while and you will no longer be startled by knee-jerk, vitriolic reactions. It's a very useful resource (I have often picked up information here that I wouldn't have seen otherwise) and can be entertaining, but it does come with a lot of ignorance and a refusal to think beyond soundbytes.

[YOY]

65. Thank you socky!

[treestar]

60. He grew up in the US as a black person

White people and other black people who first met him would have immediately thought of him as an American black person. He would have been treated as a black person, in the U.S. A Kenyan in the US is perceived as a foreigner, Obama wouldn't have been.

[Two Americas]

61. nonsense

No one would "be" an African American - as described and defined by the dominant culture in denial of the right of self-determination - by choice.

Racism is how people are mistreated and abused based on physical appearance. People of color are not some separate species or monolithic group, nor is there a "pure" or "authentic" type. There is every bit as much diversity among people of color as there is in any group of people.

Race exists in the eye of the beholder, and the dominant group - whites - force people into groups based on superficial physical appearance. Your post reinforces the core foundation of racism - the assumption that race has some basis in reality outside of and transcending social, political and economic forces.

Are we really to imagine that a lynch mob - or whites anywhere who think of, look at and treat people of color badly - would stop to find out if a person of color was "technically an African American?"

[pitohui]

63. say what? i thought his father was from kenya

hence the kenyan president announcing a public holiday and all the fireworks and celebrations we just now saw, i don't *think* i imagined all that

i have heard before that harding was black by the standards of the time (the one drop rule) but he was passing as white, it is hardly the same situation at all IMHO, there were whispering campaigns but still...hardly the same thing at all

what obama achieved is remarkable in this country where too often, people look at the color of your skin and then decide -- racism isn't about your ancestor, it's about someone making a snap judgment about your decency and intelligence based on your skin color


obama's father was from kenya, obama's skin is black, and he has had to face all of the challenges that comes with that, so why try to knock it down or make it less than it is?

[KamaAina]

64. And all this time I thought Clinton was the first black President

:eyes: