Google's CEO suggested taking the closed automotive factories

[Ichingcarpenter]

and putting the workers to work by retrofitting existing cars to alternative fuels and electric.

As part of the bailout packages.

[kestrel91316]

1. I can hear the Big 3 screaming and wailing and whining already.

But we wanna make GAS HOGS!!!!!!

[Ichingcarpenter]

3. The executives would be screaming but not the workers or

engineers.

[htuttle]

4. At this point, I think I'd prefer a 'medium-sized 15' to a 'big 3'

[smiley_glad_hands]

2. Still gotta have people to buy the cars? Or is this going to be done for free for car owners?

[Ichingcarpenter]

5. How do they buy cars without a job?

Why do you have to say it has to be 'free'? I sure something less myopic could be
economically conceived. He said at the same time it lowers our reliance on foreign oil.

[cardFan123]

7. Don't forget fuel

Oh, and ya gotta have a place to fuel them up also. Don't know about the rest of the country, but here in NJ I don't see ANY stations that have alternative fuels.

[Ichingcarpenter]

9. You don't use electricity in New jersey?

Wow, you guys are behind the times.

[cardFan123]

13. yeah, but I meant other alternative fuels

I don't think you can retro fit a regular old car to be electric, can you? I thought you could only retro fit a regular car to run to one of the alternative fuels.

[Ichingcarpenter]

14. Yes you can it's done in California now

But the cost is prohibitive to many, around 5-7 thousand, a large automotive plant
could bring down the costs to around 1000-2000

[TheWraith]

43. You certainly can. It's been done even just by individuals, and better by groups.

One of our own DUers, wtmusic, retrofitted an existing car to be electric. A team in England, I think, did the same to a Mini Cooper, and there have been plenty of others. The biggest problem in retrofitting a regular car is laying it out: where to put the batteries, mostly.

[Chulanowa]

35. They do, but eventually the guy rubbing the magnets together gets tired

[glinda]

6. YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would like to see this. If it cost say 600-800-1000 to retrofit our car to energy efficiency and there was a possible workable payment situation I would be soooo in there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If the other auto makers get it together, they could concentrate on both retrofitting and new energy vehicles. Serious new energy vehicles not just higher gas efficiency.

[gateley]

8. I think that would help! Utilize the factories, and help people retrofit their

cars until the car companies begin manufacturing electric/whatever cars in abundance.

[Ichingcarpenter]

11. That was his point also to utilize them until

the big three could get their shit together. He also said giving
them money just to pay off their debt is not gonna do anything
except help the executives bottom line.

[sce56]

10. I have a better idea change them into the Zero Pollution Motors Factory

http://zeropollutionmotors.us/

Pure Driving: The Revolutionary Compressed Air Vehicle

If you can, imagine a vehicle that runs on air, achieves over 100 gas-equivalent mpg and over 90 mph, has zero to low C02 emissions, seats six, has plenty of space for luggage, cuts no safety corners, and costs no more than an average economy to mid-size vehicle.

This is the expected performance of the revolutionary compressed air vehicle that Zero Pollution Motors (ZPM) is introducing to North America. The vehicle is powered by the Compressed Air Engine (CAE) developed by Motor Development International (MDI), a 15-year old company based in Nice, France, and headed by inventor and Formula One race car engineer, Guy Negre. ZPM is the exclusive representative for MDI in the United States.


six seater orange six seater green

Meet the Air Vehicle Family

MDI has announced the model names it will use on its market models. The overall car brand will be the FlowAIR. The existing protytypes will retain their first names to now become the

One FlowAIR, Mini FlowAIR, and City FlowAIR. The urban public transportation concept vehicles will be know as the Multi FlowAIR.

Competitive Price

We estimate the cost of purchasing a six-seater, 75hp Air Car will be approximately $17,800, proving that buying “green” doesn’t have to cost more. Not only is the price amazingly affordable, but it will cost you up to five times less in fuel consumption than an equivalent gasoline powered car. The Air Car is a totally new breed of cars entirely conceived to achieve low prices:

Ingenious design. The car’s modular, advanced materials and manufacturing techniques simplify manufacture.

No dealer’s = no middleman costs. In our business model, your Air Car is delivered to you directly from the local/regional factory, eliminating any dealer mark-up and shipping costs.

Low fuel costs. You can get an equivalent of 106 MPG. It can cost as little as $2 to refill your tank with air.

Simple maintenance. All parts will be supplied by the manufacturer to a network of licensed repair shops that will simply replace defective parts. It is easy, fast and first class since all parts are new.

Reduced maintenance anyway. The Air Car requires no cooling circuit and uses no hot gases.

No combustion = no residues. An oil change is only necessary every 31,000 miles!

[ellisD]

12. god those are ugly!

why can't they make a low/zero emission car that actually looks cool instead of some freakish alien praying mantis head?

[sce56]

20. Well maybe once you get up close you might change your mind I would love to have one!

I could get free air at work to fill it up too!

[ellisD]

23. I think once I got up close

I might discover I wouldn't actually fit in one, judging from the proportion of the car in relation to the size of the tires... lol I'm 6'4 so I need a little more leg room then your average driver.... I remember my mom looked at buying a Geo Metro when I was like 12 (almost 6' even then) she had me get in the back seat and I couldn't even sit upright, had to lean all the way forward as that thing had NO headroom whatsoever

[Ichingcarpenter]

25. Swedes, Norwegians, Dutch and Danes are taller than Americans

and drive and manufacture small efficient cars in europe.

You are really starting to sound ignorant on what goes on in the rest of the world

The mini cooper S has more legroom and headroom than these cars


Mini: 43.0 -- 4.5

Acura MDX: 41.0 -- 3.5
Acura TL: 41.5 -- 2.5
Acura RL: 41.5 -- 1.5
Audi A6: 42.0 -- 4.0
Honda Pilot: 41.0 -- 7.5
Nissan Altima 42.0 -- 5.0
Volvo V70: 43.0 -- 3.5
V. Passat 42.0 -- 4.0

[ellisD]

26. thats pretty arrogant

to call me ignorant for not being an expert in the European automotive world - sorry but not all of us are wealthy or lucky enough to have traveled Europe... I can only speak on my own personal experience with smaller American cars, which usually involves the steering wheel rubbing up against bent knees

I would love to drive something so efficient as these cars, but can't they sacrifice a slight bit of aerodynamics for something more normal looking? I don't care how "green" these new cars are, looks will always be a factor and if they would quit designing them to look like starfleet shuttles they might actually catch on alot faster

[Ichingcarpenter]

27. Do you read Car and Driver or Road and Track

or anything that could increase your knowledge? You do have the internet
to increase your knowledge for free vs making blanket statements from ignorance.

[ellisD]

29. no

I spend most of my time reading text books for the 5 classes I'm taking at the moment... increasing my knowledge every day about topics far more relevant to my daily life than cars that aren't readily available in my country

saying that I would guess the particular cars in the above picture might be too small for me is hardly a blanket statement, its a personal opinion... not knowing the difference is exposing your own ignorance

[dysfunctional press]

15. what about air-conditioning and a heater...?

:shrug:

[sce56]

22. Here are the specs I think they would be great!

Vehicle Specifications

Length - 13.4 ft
Width - 5.97 ft
Height - 5.74 ft
Seating - 6 seats
Trunk volume - 35 cubic ft
Weight - 1874 lbs
Engine - 6 Cyl.
Power - 75 hp
Max Speed - 96 mph*
Mileage - 106 mpg*
Range - 848 miles (8 gal tank) *
Co2 - 0.141 lbs/mile (at speeds >35mph; zero emissions at <35mph)

* estimated performance and subject to change

Standard Features will include:

Computer based screen display of vehicle control parameters
Full CFC-free A/C
Airbags
Fully reclining driver’s seat
Power windows, door locks and mirrors
Deluxe AM/FM stereo with cassette and cd player, optional GPS
Rear window defogger
Concealed spare tire
All season 13-inch radial tires
A cold weather package will be available

Engine and Transmission Characteristics include:

Horsepower: 75
Power source: Electronically injected compressed air
Oil volume and oil change interval: 0.8 liter at 50,000 miles
Engine mount: Rear
Transmission: Automatic, Continually Variable Transmission. Rear wheel drive.
Suspension: Front coil spring, rear pneumatic.
Steering mechanism: Rack and pinion.
Chassis and body materials: Aluminum and fiber glass.
Tanks: Thermoplastic lining and carbon fiber.

Fuel Characteristics:

Compressed Air: 3200 ft3 @ 4500 psi
Charger: On board 5.5 kwh 110/220 v compressor generating 812 ft3 /hr.

[dysfunctional press]

30. 13-inch wheels sounds awfully small...

my wife and i are both 6-footers- it has to have pretty decent leg room to accomodate us. we both drive her beetle with the seat pushed all the way back.

[ellisD]

31. I found a zero emission car with plenty of leg room lol

[sce56]

32. Well you have to start somewhere and the Air Car will work with very little pollution

try the site I listed and watch the video! http://zeropollutionmotors.us/?cat=9

[dysfunctional press]

33. don't kid yourself that it's zero pollution- unless you intend to use a foot pump to pressurize it.

nt

[sce56]

42. If the power to charge it was derived from wind, solar or geothermal then it would be!

But it is not going to be throwing out a bunch of smoke as it rolls down the highway just decompressed air. With out a doubt it would be more cleaner and efficient than even a Toyota Prius.
High Fuel Economy

The Compressed Air Vehicles’s revolutionary compressed air engine is expected to achieve a fuel economy of a remarkable 106 miles per gallon. When the energy used to heat compressed air entering the engine is accounted for, and average driving speeds factored, the average economy is expected to be 106 gasoline-equivalent mpg. See How the CAE Engine Works. Compare the Compressed Air Vehicle’s fuel economy with those vehicles listed as “The Greenest Vehicles of 2007” by the American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy (Source: www.greenercars.com).
Make and Model Specifications Emission Standarda MPG:
City MPG: Hwy Green
Score
TOYOTA PRIUS 1.5L 4, auto CVT Tier 2 bin 3 / PZEV 48 45 53
HONDA CIVIC HYBRID 1.3L 4, auto CVT Tier 2 bin 2 / PZEV 40 45 51
SMART FORTWO CONVERTIBLE/COUPE 1.0L 3, auto stk

Tier 2 bin 5 / ULEV II 33 41 49
HONDA FIT 1.5L 4, auto Tier 2 bin 5 / LEV II 27 34 43
FORD ESCAPE HYBRID 2.3L 4, auto CVT Tier 2 bin 3 / PZEV 34 30 42
HYUNDAI SONATA 2.4L 4, auto Tier 2 bin 5 / ULEV II 21 30 39

SUBARU OUTBACK WAGON
2.5L 4, auto stk 4wd Tier 2 bin 5 / PZEV 20 26 37
NISSAN ROGUE 2.5L 4, auto Tier 2 bin 5 / LEV II 22 27 37
TOYOTA TACOMA 2.7L 4, auto Tier 2 bin 5 / LEV II 19 25 34
TOYOTA SIENNA 3.5L 6, auto Tier 2 bin 5 / ULEV II 17 23 33

CHEVROLET TAHOE HYBRID C1500
6.0L 8, auto Tier 2 bin 5 / LEV II 21 22 28
NISSAN FRONTIER 4.0L 6, auto 4wd Tier 2 bin 5 / ULEV II 14 19 27

denotes premium gasoline.
“auto CVT” denotes continuously
variable automatic transmission.
“auto stk” denotes
manually adjustable automatic transmission.
a A listing
with two emission standards (e.g., Tier 2 bin
3 / PZEV) denotes a single vehicle carrying both
a federal and California emission certification.
Green Scores for such listings reflect the cleaner
of the two certifications.

Refueling: The Air Vehicle can be refilled with Air at home or in your parking garage by plugging it into a normal power outlet. The compressed Air tank is also automatically refilling when driving at higher speeds.

World’s Cleanest Car

To drive the world’s cleanest car is no longer wishful thinking. The Compressed Air Vehicle is the first affordable and accessible clean car. It brings us our dream: to drive pollution-free and free of fuel dependency.

At Lower Speeds: Since the Compressed Air Vehicle is running exclusively on compressed air, it emits only air - zero pollution. The air expelled from the tail pipe is actually cleaner than the air used to fill the tank. This is because before compression, the air is run through carbon filters to eliminate dirt, dust, humidity, and other urban air impurities that could hamper the engine’s performance.

At Higher Speeds: At speeds over 35mph the Compressed Air Vehicle uses small amounts of fuel–either gasoline, propane, ethanol or bio fuels–to heat air inside a heating chamber as it enters the engine. This process produces emissions of only 0.141lbs of CO2 per mile. That is up to 4 times less than the average vehicle and more than two times less than the cleanest vehicle available today. (Toyota Prius 07 Emissions: 0.34 lbs of CO2 per mile. Source: www.hybridcars.com)

See How the CAE Engine Works

The Compressed Air Vehicle is designed to make a major difference in urban areas especially, where motor vehicles are the single largest contributor to ground-level ozone, a major component of smog. Each year, the cars we drive emit millions of tons of pollutants, contributing heavily to global warming and acid rain. Only a clean technology that is affordable to the many can slow down and eventually - when a critical mass is reached on a global basis - reverse this lethal evolution.

[IDemo]

44. here you go ->

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9B7d6KK21A

[cardFan123]

16. But you have to send your car somewhere right?

how would my car get to one of these factories and how long would it take? I don't think there are ANY auto manufacturing plants left in NJ. There were 2, but they are long gone.

So what are people supposed to do, drive their car to Michigan to get retrofitted????

[Ichingcarpenter]

18. So you are against the idea because of your lack of vision

on how trains move new cars to NJ and return empty.

[cardFan123]

21. um.. no

I think I would need to know more information.

Vision is one thing, being practical and possible is another.

So I stick my car on a train for who knows how long. So now how do I get to work????

Retrofitting cars is not the bad part of the idea. Doing it in only a few locations throughout the country is the bad part.

[Poseidan]

17. good thinking

The solution to every problem is money (according to Bush). He was a massive failure as a son... whenever his ventures tanked, he would just get more money from daddy.

But ya know, his ridiculous ways are horribly ineffective beyond his own little priveleged world. The people will support ailing industries, upon assurance of favorable returns.

[madrchsod]

19. he should stick to running google

sounds simple but in reality his idea is totally unworkable.

[Dawgs]

39. Is that you Nancy?

WTF!!

[formercia]

41. Those factories are set up to build cars, not modify them.

The machinery in place would just be in the way. They would be better off refitting auto repair bays to do the work. Even an empty warehouse with good utilities would be better.

[iamthebandfanman]

24. i think its a great idea, BUT...

the government is gonna hafta work on infastruction if we want alternative fuels to be viable...
so far they dont look like their interested in that investment, even if it does pay us all back in the long run...
god forbid we do something thinking to the future.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

28. electric cars are the next big thing

[Greyhound]

36. Not if the Big 3... er 2, have anything to say about it.

There's simply not enough money in it, from their twisted perspective.

Once the vehicle is sold that is pretty much the end of the profit stream. Maintenance is almost non-existent, brakes, lube and alignment is about it until it is time to replace the batteries, which could be as long as a decade or more.

How will the dealerships keep their enormously profitable service departments running? The reliability of electric vehicles is anathema to the industry that has been built on soaking you for the initial cost and continuing to bleed the customer for the continual maintenance required by these earth-killers for as long as they operate.

If/when electrics become the standard the industry will have to find totally new ways to separate their customers from their cash, and American automotive management is not known for it's creativity (it has something to do with inbreeding, I believe). Would you pay $100,000 for an electric Impala? I wouldn't either.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

47. they could step production of earth-friendly batteries = jobs

we should have small ones by now that would run a car. I wish laptop batteries would last as long a watch battery. Hopefully batteries could be recycled. They need to step up recycling too.

[robinlynne]

34. great idea!

[mojowork_n]

37. Or why not use the space to make wind energy turbines?

You're guaranteed a pay-off, just hook them up to the grid to decrease reliance on fossil fuels.

Put them on the reservations, if no one else wants to claim them -- or because it would only be fair, to return something to the people whose lands we've taken:

http://www.yesmagazine.org/article.asp?ID=611

YES! Magazine Summer 2003: Finding Courage
Tribes Find Power In Wind
by Winona LaDuke

Northern Great Plains tribes have come up with an ambitious energy plan that could provide huge amounts of clean energy to North America: tribal wind power.

“We believe the wind is wakan, a holy or great power. Our grandmothers and grandfathers have always talked about it, and we recognize that,” explains Pat Spears, a Lower Brule tribal member who is the president of the Intertribal Council on Utility Policy, or Intertribal COUP.

On May 1, the first tribally owned wind generator was dedicated on the Rosebud Reservation. That turbine is a model project, and Intertribal COUP hopes it will set the stage for a broad wind generating plan for the tribes in the Great Plains region, bringing at least 3,000 megawatts of power to market in the next decade. This ambitious goal is but a fraction of the over 300 gigawatts of wind power potential found on the Great Plains Indian reservations, equal to almost half of all present US installed electrical capac-ity. The wind power potential on just the Rosebud and Pine Ridge reservations alone could meet the Kyoto targets for all of North America.

Presently, wind energy is the fastest growing energy source in the country and the world. New plans are sprouting up everywhere, and by and large, those consist of utilities buying wind rights from landholders who have windy lands, and giving those individuals a percentage of the royalties, about 2 or 3 percent, with the rest of the profit going to the utility. Because the only costs for wind turbines are putting them up and some maintenance—but nothing for fuel—the profit margin can be high. That's what Intertribal COUP wants to keep in Indian country. The reservations could provide some of the most cost-efficient wind power in the world, while cutting pollution downwind.

[Ichingcarpenter]

45. The point of this discussion is to see how we could people back to work &

utilize these closed factories that impact economies not just locally but regionally.

I would rather put the money that the government loans to the automakers into something that creates
jobs than to pay down their debt. GM is starting a factory in Russia and spending $300 million to do it
if that tells you anything about what management cares about.

Wind generators sound good also, in fact, anything that puts people back to work and helps creates
the new green economy.

[Monk06]

38. Proof that software nerds don't know shit about manufacturing.

[SmileyRose]

40. Most of the closed factories are 50 yrs old or more.

Ford and GM chose to close those plants partly due to age and maintenance costs. When Ford closed the Atlanta assembly plant it was after nearly 3 years of trying to figure out any which way to be able to afford to keep this Atlanta workforce together. They considered 2 different sites nearby for a brand new plant and they considered pouring yet more money into the one they had. There were constant Ford comments about how they have not forgotten it's Atlanta workforce is the most cost effective, efficient, and produces some the highest quality product in their system.

Because of Ford's finances, the decision all come down to getting some tax help from Georgia and the Governor was not interested in helping keep union jobs in Georgia. Instead he dealt with Kia and Nissan to create non-union car jobs. Kia was given a $17 Billion package by the Republicans to build in Georgia. There's no possible way Kia would be competitive without that incentive.

[Gman2]

46. The whole PROBLEM IS:

Those fucking rolling battlestations that hockey moms feel so SAFE in, will cream any vehicle light enough to really work. They NEED to clear the roads of SUVS. Obama is talking now about a new upgraded electicity grid. We need to have Government run pickup and truck rental. So, you only need to have a small vehicle, and rent for vacations etc. These small cars could be full elec. Any long trips would be a mass trans and a rental. Gov. run rental non profit. Bullet trains for most jet travel. Zoning changes for split use in most towns. Green belts around the town for play and exersize,centralized stores with internet for specialty items. Retrofitting a whole society, and then franchising it, will be our best chance for relevance. As for jobs, for the purchasers of cars, we cannot continue to ship from china. We need to semi ignore europe, asia, and kiss and make up to ALL our enemies in central/south america, and make the entire length of chile to alaska a trade block, supplied with items from those living here. Building a middleclass the entire length is plenty of market for economy of scale. We could still trade, and the competition would be helpful. We no longer have to patrol the whole world. They will leave us alone, and our missles will make us still safe, when dissengaged from the area, relatively speaking. Beat our swords into plowshares. Use that spare military industrial complex for the franchising of our energy independence infrastructure. If I were king.