So what IS the real solution to all the economic crises?

[begin_within]

[crazylikafox]

1. Nobody knows. And that's the truth.

[begin_within]

4. Well, isn't step 1 figuring out what caused it? That would help in finding the solution.

[Lil Missy]

18. The "trickle down" that passed through the business end of the elephant is what caused it. n/t

[begin_within]

20. So it's time to jettison that economic model.

[HughBeaumont]

29. Uh, dat would be "28 years of FriedmanReaganomics" for 200, Alex.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

2. It is a global problem

all leaders of the world have to come together and figure it out!

[keep_it_real]

3. No. 1: get rid of the PRIVATELY owned Federal Reserve Bank

Issue credit based on the good faith and credit of the United States government directly to the corporations and people of America.

[begin_within]

5. so how do we do that?

[Greyhound]

36. That is the simple part, revoke the Feds' charter and withdraw from the central banking system.

It was created by an act of Congress and can be dissolved just as easily.

By legislatively abolishing interest, the profit from doing nothing more than creating and shuffling money is removed and the entire industry, which contributes nothing and represents an enormous drag on the real economy, has no reason to exist.

We (Congress) would have to simultaneously institute a currency system to facilitate trade so that the real economy can continue, fortunately all the pieces already exist and the new system can be instituted with minimal disruption.

It would be god to point out that the minimal disruption would be, to a great degree, a matter of perspective. Without the participation of the US, the global financial system would disintegrate and trade with nations that chose to remain in the current usurious system would only be possible through the exchange of real goods and services since their currency would necessarily become worthless in this country.

In effect, nearly all debts would be wiped out and a short-term system of compensation for private transactions in progress would have to be implemented to keep the real economy moving, but it would be a boon to the vast majority of Americans and in a generation, maybe less, we would achieve our often stated, yet never realized, goal of absolute equality of opportunity.

Another benefit would be that the real cost of everything would be far more accurately expressed, since without the facade of financing at interest, they could not be hidden. Many things that we believe to be cheap would become much more expensive, but by the same token, many things we currently hold dear would become much less expensive. As price becomes irrelevant, quality and innovation would necessarily become the medium of competition and the true potential of our economic capacity would more closely be realized.

[StreetKnowledge]

43. I can see the idea

But that idea is fantasy. Removing the federal reserve does not mean no more debts or interest for people. Capitalism requires the banks to get something out of loaning to people. The federal reserve is always run by a civilian, but its operated with the grace of the government. The government can tell it how to work.

As for the new currency idea, it's also fantasy. It will cause the value of the American dollar to drop like a rock, which will cause the price of importing what we need - energy most of all - to go skyward in a hurry. And considering America's trade deficit, how in the heck are we supposed to make up the gap otherwise?

[Greyhound]

44. Everything done, including the fractional reserve banking system is a "fantasy"

until it is done, that is no reason for rejection. Banks have no reason to exist in their present form in the system. They are a parasite and completely unnecessary. The founders tried their best to keep them out of this nation.

You seem to think that this is the only possible currency system, it is not. It is simply a Ponzi scheme that has been run for so long, and so misunderstood by the average people, that most believe it is the way it has to be.

The Fed is not only run by a civilian, it is a private corporation owned by private banks and only nominally answerable to the government, and as we are seeing now, have gathered the power to work against the interests of the nation.

As for the value of the dollar, it is irrelevant. I'm sure as a Canadian you are happy with the current plight in the short-term, but it will bite you in the ass soon. Excuse me for being a little nationalistic, but we are essential to the entire world, without our market to sell into, your economy is reduced to subsistence. If the US adopts a new system, your country will follow and we'll all be far better off (unless you work in the financial industry at a pretty high level or are of the parasite class).



"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws." - Mayer Amschel Rothschild

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." - Henry Ford

[valerief]

6. Socialism.

[begin_within]

9. well, now that we have a "socialist!" coming in to the White House

[Jackpine Radical]

7. Eat the banks.

[sendero]

8. There really isn't one...

.. buckle up your seat belt.

[Kansas Wyatt]

10. Deregulate 'We The People' and regulate Corporate America & Globalism, Inc.

The economic crisis happened, because 'We The People' (95% or us) ran out of steady employment and money. If the 'We The People' had employment and a steady income, there would not be a crisis.

Bush's house of cards, made up of working harder for a lot less or not at all and cheap imported goods, while the Wealthy Elite made out like bandits, finally came crashing down. Not to mention the Global players that cashed in like the Wealthy Elite, while American workers were cannibalized. When the people run out of money, their shopping economy comes to an end and those at the top feel the pain too. It wasn't hard to see that coming for awhile.

[begin_within]

12. Very good summary

[ben_meyers]

11. How about a full scale, all out

World War 3 with universal conscription, rationing, war bonds and the like? It worked pretty well in the 40's. All though this time how about we lose and let the rest of the world rebuild us.

[galileoreloaded]

24. Oh, you rascally "history" guys, You silly scalawags you....

why inject pragmatism and historical context into a discussion full of 50% educated personalities, when you can squeak from the rooftops in a shrill and marginally/partially informed voice.
Pish, posh you say?
I AM smart Mr. Facts and Metrics. Here, let me tell you.....

As for the majority of us, the best advise is heads forward, eyes OPEN. A dumb ass pogey bait buck private could teach many of us quite a bit.

[magellan]

13. I'm an atheist, but let me quote the bible in answer

...because this is what I've always believed:

"And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

If we want to fix this mess we have to start at the bottom and lift up "the least of these", those who've been crushed under the heel of society through no fault of their own. The homeless, the jobless, the poverty-stricken. At some point we're going to have to devise a path to a system where everyone gets an equal shot at participating -- not just lip service about "working hard to achieve the American Dream".

Sure it happens...but not often enough. And it's happening less often as time goes by.

1.5% of American households earn $250k or above.

69% of American households earn $75k or less.

14-20% live in poverty (includes the working poor).

This is a travesty.

A lot of things need to be done to achieve a better system, including a sea change in attitude towards the poor and how they get that way (and are too often then kept that way by the ptb). Access to better education on all fronts is absolutely required. It's the lynch-pin really. Which is why, I believe, education has been decimated by the right.

Just mulling it over, I expect such a dramatic change will take a century, if not more -- if we started in earnest today. Kind of like stemming global climate change.

But it would be worth it in the long run. Because democracy requires participation, and a well-run democracy requires informed consent...and when most everyone understands how things like this financial fiasco really happen, they'll stop electing the kind of people who make it happen.

I know, I'm an idealist.

[NoUsername]

16. Yep. It has to come from the bottom up.

The so called "trickle down" theory was always a bogus excuse used to funnel money from the working class to the rich. In reality, it has proven to be a total failure. The bailout bill has failed to revive the economy because it was aimed at, once again, enriching the top .1% (or thereabouts). Had it been aimed at helping out the bottom, I think things would be a bit different.

Had the $700B been spent on creating jobs, helping out the poor and homeless, forcing banks to refinance ARMs to prevent foreclosures, etc., I think it would have had a much greater potential to begin solving the economic problems we are currently facing. Throwing money at the rich does absolutely nothing to help the economy. Giving it to those in need and creating jobs allows them to pull themselves up and brings them back into the fold, creating workers that pay taxes which creates a larger tax base, thereby allowing the cycle to continue, creating more and more jobs and bringing more and more people into the fold. Giving $700B to the top dogs on Wall Street will to do nothing more than enrich the top .1% at our expense. Targeting the money to those at the bottom would be much more beneficial for all involved. Well, except for, of course, the top .1%.

[begin_within]

17. Awesome reply, thanks

[lib2DaBone]

14. John Kennedy ....Got shot to death.

We need to get rid of the FED.

[RollergirlVT]

15. Time

IMHO We are entering a period of severe readjustment. We will not return to any type of equilibrium quickly. Things have been grossly out of balance for a very long time and only time will absorb the losses and find a new balance in the global economy.

[Joe the Liberal]

19. Abolish the Federal Reserve.....

They are the ones who have caused this crisis we are in now and many more in the past and they will continue to cause them for years to come. So long as the Federal Reserve exists the US will ALWAYS be in debt, this crisis we are in now is nothing new.

[Mari333]

21. a good start would be to slash the defense budget to bare minimum

[RichardRay]

22. A series of fiscal stimulus packages designed to create

jobs in the U.S. and to produce items of long term value. We have a creaky infrastructure in this country: roads, bridges, public buildings, national parks, etc. Investment in those things creates long term value and provides good jobs.

The alternative version of 'stimulus packages' where you just send some money out to everyone for them to spend helps businesses show better results for the next quarter, but fails to make any long term difference and fails to change the situation for the majority of the folks in the country - an extra $1,000 in a year is certainly nice to have, but it doesn't pay for a job retraining program or relocation.

[gravity]

23. Sensible government and economic policies

Have common sense regulations, a balanced budget, and encourage people to save money instead of taking out too much debt. There is no need for anything revolutionary to prevent this from happening again.

It might take some government intervention to stimulate the economy to lesson the effects of the recession, but when the economy inevitably recovers, it is pretty straightforward.

[elleng]

25. There is no 'THE REAL solution'

as there isn't AN ANSWER problems with our 'education system,' so I hope people/pundits don't frame the question that way (tho I'm sure they will.)

[Chan790]

26. A return to liberal Keynesian economic theories.

Monetarism is to blame for the economic crises.

[leftofthedial]

27. nationalize oil, financial markets, health care and all defense-related industries.

promote worker-owned collectives instead of supply-side corporations.

[Juche]

28. THis is my understanding from a non-economist's POV

My understanding is that our country is deeply in debt both personally with credit and publically with federal debt. Now that the housing market has collapsed and alot of financial transactions used those mortgages as collateral the financial institutions are realizing that there is a good chance money loaned will never be paid back because people's homes aren't worth as much as they paid, the owners are in debt anyway for other stuff and the nation is in debt. So nobody wants to loan money for fear it won't be paid back.

So I would assume securing debt by the government would be a good step and helping homeowners work out payment plans, but beyond that reforming the economy so the middle class has higher wages and lower expenses is another long term goal. If the middle class were making 70k a year on average instead of 60k and had lower taxes, alot more would be able to afford their homes and would not be so deep in debt. Also cutting overhead by creating more fuel efficient cars, alternative energy that is cheaper than coal, getting healthcare and college costs down, etc will also make the middle class more stable. If we get people's wages up and expenses down then we will combat the credit crisis because people will able able to avoid debt and pay it off more easily.

That seems to be Obama's agenda as president. He is basically pushing for all the stuff I am talking about (cutting middle class expenses while raising their wages).

[dysfunctional press]

30. force chevron-texaco to give up the patent rights to large Nimh batteries would be nice.

http://www.evworld.com/blogs/index.cfm?page=blogentry&authorid=51&blogid=104

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV

Whether or not Toyota wanted to continue production, it was unlikely to be able to do so, because the EV-95 battery was no longer available. Chevron had inherited control of the worldwide patent rights for the NiMH EV-95 battery when it merged with Texaco, which had purchased them from General Motors. Chevron's unit won a $30,000,000 settlement from Toyota and Panasonic, and the production line for the large NiMH batteries was closed down and dismantled. This case was settled in the ICC International Court of Arbitration, and not publicised due to a gag order placed on all parties involved.<1> Only smaller NiMH batteries, incapable of powering an electric vehicle or plugging in, are currently allowed by Chevron-Texaco.

[readmoreoften]

31. Hmmm.... my vote is good old-fashioned class warfare.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

32. Scandinavian style social-democratic version of capitalism.

It seems to work better than any other politico-economic system on earth. Peaceful, prosperous and sensible. Allows for and rewards innovation but discourages gross economic equality and ensures a good quality of life for all citizens.

[kentuck]

33. More money at the bottom and less money at the top.

Most basically.

[Political Heretic]

34. I don't know. But I would like to propose that a green revolution may be the way out

I don't think anyone should act like they "know" exactly what the solutions are. But I think to some degree, part of the solution might be to take this opportunity to transform our economy back into one that actually "makes" things, with our target of leading the world in green technology and innovation.

At first the government is going to have to spend money, even with our looming debt. Increasing the length of unemployment, a second infrastructure-focused stimulus, tax cuts to the middle class - these things are needed. But additionally, we need to make an investment into the green revolution. There is money to be made, it is desperately needed, and whoever gets there first can lead the world and - to a degree - dictate terms.

Obama talked about a pre-innaguaration listening tour to discuss this very issue, saying that an "Apollo Like" project to transform into a green economy would be his top priority as president. I think thats incredible vision that is exactly what we need.

[Greyhound]

35. Step 1; Withdrawal from the fractional reserve central banking system and outlawing interest.

Abandon the concept of unearned income and with it, the financial industry which exists only because of this unearned profit. Replace it with a fixed value currency system to facilitate trade so the real economy works smoothly.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

37. so...no more credit at all?

that is what you are proposing...

sP

[Greyhound]

38. No, no more interest. Control of currency returned to the government where it rightly belongs.

Of course the mechanics of the process have to be paid for, this can be done either through taxes as any other government service, or through fees to the borrower.

The main thing is to get out from under the Ponzi scheme we've had foisted on us.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

41. there are some problems...

the Gov't DOES control the currency...you get to simply own some of it. Now, we can argue the details on how 'well' the currency is regulated, but loaning money is done by people who have money to loan. Interest is charged for several reasons but two big ones :

1) While the money is out on loan, the lender does not have use of it so the lendee is being charged for time.
2) There is inherent risk that you may not be paid back, so the interest on the loan is a protective measure as well.

You take away the right to charge interest and you are removing the incentive for and the protections of lending...and it will completely stop.

sP

[Greyhound]

42. You mi amigo, need to learn how the system works. It is not controlled by the government

except in the most nominal sense (the chairman is nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate). The federal Reserve is not Federal and has no reserves. It is a privately owned corporation that neither you nor I can buy into, and can, of it's own volition and for it's own purposes manipulate the supply of currency.

ETA; It also has no allegiance to the United States, but rather to the global banking system that has fucked us over and over for many decades.

Loaned money does not exist until it is loaned, therefore there is nothing to lose the use of.

Since the bank does not own the money, (again it doesn't even exist until it is "loaned") the risk of non-payment is not borne by the bank except in that it represents a deposit that is used to secure nine times the amount in the form of other loans. IOW, the bank charges interest to create that which it does not have and does not own.

The fractional reserve banking system is the very definition of a Ponzi scheme and what we have now is the result of less money flowing in at the bottom and the people on top blackmailing us to keep their scheme going.

I think the real issue is that people are not aware that the financial system is separate and independent of the currency system. The currency system is essential for the real economy to operate, the financial system is only a drain on the economy as it contributes nothing to the real economy.

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws." - Mayer Amschel Rothschild

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." - Henry Ford

[Greyhound]

39. Morning kick.

:kick:

[theothersnippywshrub]

40. Time and de-leveraging. Just like all past economic crises.

Sensible regulation and fiscal policy can help prevent or lessen an economic crisis, but once one develops it takes time for asset values to stabilize and for businesses and consumers to rebuild their balance sheets.

The asset value which most needs to stabilize in this current crisis is home prices. Once they stop declining, the value of the securitized mortgages can be established which will stop the erosion of financial companies' balance sheets and allow credit to be freed up with a return to normal loan underwriting standards. Consumer balance sheets can best be helped by tax cuts to the broadest number of people possible and by bankruptcy law reform undoing the last bankruptcy law "reform."

[Greyhound]

45. As long as we leave the basic system as is, we will constantly repeat this cycle

as we have since this fraud was codified into law.

[TexasObserver]

46. JOBS. Jobs create incomes, and those create tax revenues, and those pay for the programs.

JOBS means credit cards get paid, car notes get paid, house notes get paid.

No amount of stimulus will do the job. It takes JOBS PROGRAMS.


We need (1) Infrastructure Spending, and (2) Alternative Energy Spending. Both programs will give immediate benefits in the form of jobs, and those jobs will help the overall economy recover.

Nothing will fix this but JOBS.