A note out to all Christians. Be aware of people who tell you that they know the will of god.

[IsItJustMe]

I use to go to church, but quit going after GWB became president. The church became unbearably political. My daughter continued going and to her, her faith is everything.

This election has been hard on her. Several of her church acquaintances have basically told her that isn't a real christian because she voted for Obama and is going against god's will. She called me the other night with a heavy heart.

This is what I told her. This is life. Any time you open your mouth, half the people will disagree with you. There are some people who claim they know the will of god. When a person judges you, they are setting themselves up as god. This is a self righteous egotistical attitude; whereby, one needs to feel superior to another.

I told her that many people through out history have claimed to know the will of god. Hitler, no doubt, thought he was doing god's work when he killed millions of jews. The people the bombed the world trade center thought they were doing god's will.

And on another note, wasn't it god who supposedly told GWB to go into Iraq?

I do believe that god can speak to you through intuition or instinct about what you should be doing in your own life, or what direction you should be going in. But be aware.

No one knows the will of god. No one. And when people come to you claiming such non-sense, run like hell.

[Mari333]

1. amen! n/t

[MNDemNY]

2. There is no God.

So, yes be VERY aware of any one who says they know God's will. Liars, every one.

[fascisthunter]

4. I am an Atheist

and while I agree with you, we really need to respect others who wish to choose their belief in a god. There are very good progressive liberals who are spiritual and religious, and who do many good things for this country.

Your point though about bigots using God as an Excuse is an excellent one. I have studied the Christian religion for years.... (phew)... and what these "fanatics" are doing is, claiming to be god. Christians are not supposed to judge as these fanatics do... They are twisting their very teachings to suit their homophobic agenda.

[MNDemNY]

14. Should we also bend over backward to not offend those who REALLY believe white people are superior?

[fascisthunter]

19. I don't consider respect or objectivity "bending over"

so I think you are trying to mischaracterize my post.

All my statement says is that NOT ALL Religious folks are our enemy. Not all religous folks are trying to oppress gays and lesbians.

[MNDemNY]

21. So, we should show "respect" and "objectivity" toward racists?

But you are correct in saying that not all religious "folks" are our enemy, it's not the "folks" it is the "religion" that is they enemy of all mankind.

[fascisthunter]

32. I Stated No Such Thing...

And I'm a bit put off that you would interpret my post as saying such a thing just for this argument's sake.

If you believe all religion is bigoted than you must think those following religion must be condoning that bigotry too. All I said, is not all do...It's very hard to separate the two... and like most things humans create, they all interpret religious dogma differently.

Just to prove my point: There are Gay and Lesbians who are religious too...


We have religious friends on the side of equality. Let's not throw them out with the proverbial bath water.

Peace


:yoiks:

[Mari333]

5. well, some of us believe in something that is often called 'god'

but the concept is one of unconditional love . hugs.

[fascisthunter]

11. wise reply

atheists and people of faith actually share much more in common than we all realize.

[MNDemNY]

13. THAT concept is NOT lost on me.

Call it what you will, just don't call it a "being".

[Mari333]

15. I dont..when people ask me what is god, I say'what isnt?'

but then, I like the idea of unconditional love being the fabric of everything from quarks to spiral galaxies.

[MNDemNY]

17. I can give you that one, fer-sure.

[patrice]

34. I think there is a concrete basis for this hypothesis.

[spoony]

7. "Any time you open your mouth, half the people will disagree with you"

Well, there you go.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

8. Yes There Is. And May He Bless You And Keep You, May He Make His Face To Shine Upon You,

and be gracious to you. May He lift up his countenance upon you, and give you peace.

[MNDemNY]

16. Put up or shut up.

Prove your claim, or go the way of the dinosaurs.

[spoony]

22. Yeah, OMC, don't you be offering good will like that.

Bastard. Lol.

[MNDemNY]

23. I don't want, or need the "blessing" of Ba'al.

But thanks anyway.

[spoony]

24. Yeah I know, everyone's your enemy.

We're all evil. Out to get you. Look out your window, make sure we're not there.

[MNDemNY]

27. Just go to church and mind your own business.

That would be your best route.

[spoony]

29. But they might brainwash me!

I mean moreso. That's all the churches do, right? In the name of Religion, that enemy of "all humanity"? No, I think I'll play it safe and stay right here.

[MNDemNY]

30. maybe you can find a grilled cheese sandwich to worship in your kitchen.

[spoony]

33. No, no sandwiches at all, what now?

No bread even. Maybe I should work on being really angry and paranoid like you and other smart, enlightened-type people.

[MNDemNY]

35. Then pray to the "porcelain idol".

[spoony]

37. Well it's gonna take a lot more than one beer at lunch...

I'll start and let you know later how it goes.

[MNDemNY]

41. Tequila.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

25. The Proof Is All Around You. May He Bless You And Keep You, May He Make His Face To Shine Upon You,

and be gracious to you. May He lift up his countenance upon you, and give you peace.

[MNDemNY]

28. That is the lamest cop-out around, when all you have is "nuttin'"..

That it? sorry no soap.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

36. Your Blindness Is Your Downfall. But Just Because A Blind Man Can't See, Does Not Make Everything

around him cease to exist.

Sometimes, you must close your eyes to see...

May god bless you and grant you the wisdom and guidance to someday recognize your shortcomings.

[MNDemNY]

38. Yawn.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

39. Sleep Well Child Of God. May His Warmth And Love Grant You Pleasant Dreams.

[MNDemNY]

40. Is that the cristian equivalent to : "Go fuck yourself"?

[daninthemoon]

3. America is full of false prophets. Most of them are in it for the profit.

[IsItJustMe]

9. LOL. When you talk to god, it is called pray. When god talks back, its called crazy.

[patrice]

31. Bingo!! Give dan the door prize!

Profit can be $$$ or more abstract/psychological.

[Fumesucker]

6. Oh G_d...

Now I've got Madonna singing "I'm a material girl" in my head for the rest of the day.

Gee, thanks. :)

[AuntPatsy]

10. Amen...

[RainDog]

12. good advice! I hope your daughter gets away from that place

there are other churches that don't preach hate for democrats or others.

[IsItJustMe]

18. She was raised a Sothern Baptist. She went to a liberal christian college.

She is in her warrior stage of life right now. As for me, I allow people to believe what ever they want. I shrug my shoulders and move on.

But she can't do that. I understand that. I was her age to at one time. She is strong and it will be because of people like her that ignorant attitudes will change. She is out spoken and does not cool it for anybody.

[Fumesucker]

20. Heh, I have a daughter like that..

Whim of iron..

Takes after her mother like that. :)

[patrice]

26. True!! **IF** YOU "know" the will of "God", that's "the will of God" for **YOU*.

The WHOLE notion of evangelizing OTHERS is WRONG.

And YOUR life, every second, every breath, every thought, every action, is so complex, so challenging in EVERY detail, that you have enough to do to live "God's will" without trying to tell others (incorrectly I might add, since those others didn't come to it themselves) what "God" wants them to do.

Every act of telling others what they are supposed to be doing (with the exception of Parents guiding their own Children), rather than conscientiously and thoroughly living the Good News yourself, is an act that MISSES an opportunity to en-LIVE-n the Message the best way you can, with your own Life. It's the opposite of what we see in the life of Christ, who had ONE, and only one, commandment.

The model is clear. Jesus did his best to live his OWN life by the light of Truth and he did so without thought to reward, no heaven, not to avoid hell, or whatever. This is why his church and the state killed him. He was tooooooo Free and that was a "bad example" to the mobs over whom they seek Power and Dominion.

Jesus did Right as best as HE was capable of perceiving it , because it is/was Right and for NO other reason, not for social relatinships (like our churches), not for money (like our priests, preachers and ministers and those who do business in our churches), not for "heaven", not for power, not because it made sense, not to be superior to others, not for security, not for emotional highs, not to avoid punishment, ultimately he went forward without concern for whatever consequences his actions might entail, not for anything other than it was what he PERSONALLY knew to be right.

The interesting thing about this to me is that he apparently, ultimately, was not absolutely sure. "Father, why hast thou forsaken me" are not the words of someone who knows "God's" will so precisely that he had any assurances even remotely like what "Christians" commonly claim today.

I think all of "Christianity" needs to re-examine the 1st Commandment of the OT and ask themselves who/what they are REALLY worshipping, because, from a conservative theological standpoint, perfect knowledge of God's will is blasphemy, so blasphemers might well be worshipping "Satan" rather than God.

[Evoman]

42. Jesus told me your a liar.

Then he gave me the winning lottery numbers, but told me if I used them I would go to hell and be raped by demons in all my orifices.

Sadistic motherfucker.

[prole_for_peace]

43. Some co-workers said they were voting the way "God" told them

which meant for McCain. I don't really have much to do with these people but I really had to restrain myself Wednesday morning so I didn't get in their faces with "So where's your God now?" or "I guess you weren't listening when God told you who to vote for"

[JDwho]

44. I I know how you and your daughter feel ( all Christians aren't crazy)

I'm a Christian. My faith is important to me. I think one of the worst things that ever happened in the church is when it became political. Now, I endure comments such as these, that make me seem crazy, but I don't blame you because, from what I've seen the church do lately...it's embarrassing.
Perhaps, despite my disdain for labels, I should call my self a follower of Christ. Jesus taught love, tolerance, and kindness. He loved the unlovable. Call me a fool, those of you I have hung out with here on DU; my opinion of the church is so very changed and leaves me sad, however my faith is strong, as always. In case any of you are interested, I pray for God's will in my life, whatever that may be; and never would I be so arrogant as to know the mind of God.
My political views are based on logic, reason, and yes...faith. That's why I voted for Obama.