Why do cities and regions like N. Virginia, Chicago, and San Francisco tend to be more enlightened,

[bigtree]

. . . more liberal, and more Democratic than areas outside of their boundary?

. . . urban areas vs. the counties and regions surrounding them?

Anyone willing to put an answer to that?

[SharonAnn]

1. Educated, cosmopolitan, thinking people move to the cities.

[W_HAMILTON]

2. Because...

...they're more likely to interact with diverse people, and realize that these people are not the things people have "demonized" them as.

People in rural areas don't experience the diversity that you find in a city, so they believe in all those frightening stories about the black people and the gay people and other scary types!

[Nickster]

5. Right on target, at least on target with my thinking

[bigtree]

8. that's a great answer

It sits well with my own regard for diversity.

[cali]

10. Then please explain Vermont. 95% rural by any definition

yet only 4 tiny towns in the entire fucking state went for McCain out of over 250.

There's practically no diversity in my little redneck Northeast Kingdom town. Please explain why we voted for Obama.

What a silly generalization.

[W_HAMILTON]

22. Well, for starters...

(1) There's always exceptions to the rule.
(2) I'm sure there are other extenuating circumstances in the case of a place like Vermont. They are in a region with like-minded people, and near the same sort of big cities that we are talking about. Also, as Northeastern people leave the cities and suburbs, where do you think they move? To Podunk, Nebraska? Or to a nearby state like Vermont or Maine? Why do you think some of the southern states that have had an influx of Northerners ended up going Democratic this election cycle?

Some of that may not be true, but again, they are plausible explanations. It's certainly not a "silly generalization." It's been shown that people around diversity usually grow to accept and become tolerant of that diversity, because they realize that people are people, and not the scary things they are portrayed as on TV.

[cali]

26. yeah, quite a bit of it isn't true.

there really is virtually no diversity in most of Vermont. There aren't nearly as many flatlanders as people seem to think, and in a town like mine, they're a distinct minority. loggers, farmers, small business owners, voted for Obama here. They didn't grow up with diversity, but they voted their interests.

I know a lot of folks who've never even been out of Vermont. Most of them voted for Obama.

[W_HAMILTON]

36. So, they have no connection to the outside world, eh?

No diversity, no people leaving, no people coming in...you better keep quiet or some of the racists I have here in the South might look to move in!

As I said, I don't speak for everyone, nor do I believe you do, either. Even if there's no diversity in your area, or even in your state, you can't tell me that being around people that do have more tolerant views doesn't have an effect on how someone thinks. No one in Vermont moved from a larger NE city/suburb? No one in Vermont has friends and family members that moved to, or moved from, a city/suburb like that?

It's much the same way here in the south, just in the opposite direction. There isn't much diversity, but a lot of people grow up in an environment that does not preach tolerance of other people, and in turn, many people grow up instilled with bigotry and prejudice.

[Oak2004]

40. Vermont also has a tradition of (for lack of a better term) radical democracy

It originated as a rebellion against both New York and New Hampshire, fought independently of the other thirteen colonies for its independence, was the first state to abolish slavery, etc.

I don't however think other rural areas are unable to make a left turn. The rural midwest was a hotbed of socialism 120 years ago, in fact, and if you ask the people there about issues, leaving off labels, they are quite a bit further to the left than they think they are.

In fact, most midwesterners, on the issues, are liberals. It's just a matter of finding a way to connect their actual beliefs with the correct labels and party affiliations. That's a job for smart organizers and experts in public relations, and hopefully someday it will be done.

[BlueJazz]

38. There's often more than one "Route" to a conclusion.

The people in Vermont have always been pretty hip to the world and have developed their
opinions from the neighbors and (Mainly) their parents.

Other places in America have not had that advantage.
(Ok..I call voting Dem as an Advantage)

[AndyTiedye]

39. Vermont is a Very Special Place - Cherish It

Rural AND liberal is such a rare combination!

How do you do it? Did the wingnuts all move to New Hampshire?

[cali]

3. because it's not true?

The entire state of Vermont- now officially the state that has more people that identify as liberal than any other. Places like Asheville, NC.

[bigtree]

14. but aren't the majority of these voters, in most cases, concentrated in the large urban areas?

. . . throughout the country?

I'm sure we can name exceptions, but I think there's been an urban/rural trend. Look at how republican votes encircle many of the larger towns and cities which voted overwhelmingly Democratic. That's what I'm referring to.

[cali]

17. you are backtracking. Maine, Vermont and NH are some some of the

least diverse states, some of the least urban and they all went for Obama.

[bigtree]

20. I wonder if we'd still find that the majority of Democratic votes were concentrated

. . . in the larger, more developed and more populated areas?

[cali]

31. hello? every town in Vermont but four voted for Obama. That's out of over 250

towns. The highest vote for him was in Lamoille county- overwhelmingly rural and not at all diverse, no town there over 4,000 people and most towns are just a few hundred people. The second highest vote for Obama was in another very rural county.

Nope. Wrong.

[bigtree]

34. Well, you found an exception

It doesn't explain the pattern in the rest of the country. It just proves that there are certainly exceptions. Good point.

[Gormy Cuss]

47. And they're peculiar.

The generalization that on a national level diversity is one of the main factors in liberal voting says nothing about why some rural and exurban areas aren't the exact opposite. Northern New England and some otber rural areas of the Northeast have a strong tradition of fiscal conservatism and social centrist-left leaning attitudes. It's why Yankee Republicans as a group aren't the ones with influence in their party now. I'm sure there are other rural areas that behave the same way but the fact of the matter is rural America behaves differently on a national level -- they tend to be social conservatives.

[abelenkpe]

4. see here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axXTMUmTOyE&feature=related



perhaps more people = more people talking and sharing?

[Recursion]

6. Isn't this a little too smug?

We all live in boxes. Our boxes work a little (or even a good deal) better than a lot of conservatives' boxes. What cities are you talking about? I'm not sure I'd call most of the people in any of the cities I live in "enlightened"; they grew up Democratic, those are the values they stuck with, and there's a political machine that gets their votes out.

[bigtree]

9. maybe too broad

but, you're not denying the trend, are you?

[Recursion]

11. I think affluent and very poor people wind up in cities

And affluent and very poor people are often liberal. I've lived in a very small rural farm county that was liberal too, though, ever since the old Progressive times. Parents teach their kids, and kids tend to stick with it.

That said, I live in Boston now; I think racial tension here is worse than it was in the South where I grew up. I just don't know if us city folk should break our arms patting ourselves on the back.

[jpgray]

7. Where's Bernie Sanders from again?

[cali]

12. New York.

[jpgray]

18. VT, cali. Trying to make a quiet point over here if you don't mind.

:P

[Demobrat]

13. Because we are thrown together with people from all over the world

every day, and have the chance to see for ourselves how meaningless external differences really are. Repubs tend to know only people like themselves, as evidenced by Palin's rallies.

[cali]

16. Can you spell Vermont? It puts a big fat hole in your smug baloney.

[bigtree]

19. you can find exceptions, but our Democratic votes are concentrated in many large cities

. . . ringed by republican votes on the outskirts.

Of course, there are exceptions, but that's no cause for calling baloney on wondering why there are these patterns.

[Telly Savalas]

45. But the exceptions warrant calling baloney on overly simple theories

that can't explain why or how the exceptions occur.

[bigtree]

46. It is possible there are different explanations for different regions

I don't think Vermonters would argue against the notion that their state has it's own unique characteristics which may explain the prevailing ideology and voting patterns there.

And, I do see a disparity in diverse influences and a diverse media between larger populated areas and lesser populated regions which may account for the disparate views and perceptions.

[Demobrat]

21. So where do you think the majority of Palin's supporters live?

Just out of curiosity?

[cali]

23. suburbs and rural areas- but there are LOTS of exceptions and I

would still like an answer to my question.

[Demobrat]

29. Sure, no problem.

V. E. R. M. O. N. T.

[JVS]

15. On some issues, that's the case. On other issues urban areas fare really poorly.

For example, I don't think that our cities have much to boast about when it comes to dealing with poverty. Our tendency is to mind our own business and we really aren't our brother's keeper in this regard. In a rural setting, it might be more difficult to ignore the plight of the poor.

[IndianaJones]

24. go to the southside of Chicago to see how progressive Chicago is . nt.

[bigtree]

27. sure, but overall . . .

It still holds that the city has a greater percentage of Democratic votes than the towns surrounding . . . right?

[IndianaJones]

30. sure, that is the problem. why are minorites in Chicago and NW Indiana in such dire circumstances

when it is overwhelmingly Democratic?

[leftofthedial]

25. extremely high rates of substance abuse

[marmar]

28. In the case of San Francisco, a good bit of the Bay Area that surrounds it....

..... tends to be enlightened, IMHO.

[bigtree]

32. I swear

EVERYTHING I hear about San Francisco makes me want to pack up and move there; every song, every person I've met who lives there, everything about the place . . .

I'm not surprised that it's influence radiates for miles around.

[Demobrat]

33. This is true, but

I wouldn't call the bay area rural, or even suburban really, since it's all so intertwined.

[marmar]

35. True.....It's really a collection of cities with their own identities.....

Although I would venture to call Marin County suburban, and it's quite enlightened.

[Demobrat]

37. Well it's suburban living in some ways but

so many people who live there work in the city, and so many people move back and forth that it's really the same population ... just look at the bridge on any weekday morning!

[sl8]

41. In the interests of full disclosure ...

Do you happen to live in one of those "more enlightened" areas?

[bigtree]

42. my state of MD. went to Obama with some 61% voting for him

But, if you look at one of those maps with the counties mapped out in blue and red votes, there's a blue stripe down the middle of the state from Baltimore to D.C.

[Bigmack]

43. Dangerous idea here....

How about ethnicity as a possible cause of the lack of enlightenment? Not race... ethnic background.

Joe Bageant wrote an excellent book titled "Deer Hunting With Jesus", in which he describes the "Borderers" and their attitudes.

Here's a piece from a shorter article. Read the article and see if you recognize these folks among us.

"You may not meet them among your circle of friends, but there are millions of Americans who fiercely believe we should nuke North Korea and Iran, seize the Middle East's oil, and replace the U.S. Constitution with the Christian Bible. They believe the United States will conquer the entire world and convert it to our notions of democracy and fundamentalist Christian religion. And that will happen says my Christian neo-conservative friend Dave Henderson, when we elect a man with the balls to use our nukes. You may not believe me, and if you don't I cannot blame you for never having been exposed to such folks. Only an idiot or a masochistic observer of the American scene would subject himself or herself to these Americans. I like to think I am the latter, but the jury is still out.

In understanding how such ominous political ideations manifested themselves in this country, it helps to look back 450 years to a group of Celtic cattle thieves killing one another in the mud along Hadrian's Wall -- the Borderers. Fanatically religious and war loving, these Scottish Protestants made their way first to Ireland as the Ulster Scots, then to American shores during the early 18th century. Known to most Americans as the Scots Irish or Scotch Irish, the Borderers brought cultural values that govern (some would say screw up) the political emotions of millions of Americans to this day."
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Jan05/Bageant0126.htm

[MedleyMisty]

44. I was planning to do a statistical comparison of NC and Mississippi

since someone asked why NC went blue while other Southern states stayed red and I was going to use facts and numbers to show that we're doing better economically and have better schools and that, yes, a lot of new people have moved here in recent years.

I grew up in a rural county and then moved to Charlotte. Our schools were all right but the schools here in the city offer so much more. Or at least the mostly white schools do - it really chaps my ass when people get on a bigoted high horse about regional differences when there is dire institutional racism in their own backyard.

But then again - like the reason Charlotte was surrounded by red is because people come here to work and then drive for 30 minutes to an hour or more back to their McMansions away from all the poor and minority people where they don't have to pay taxes for city services. I work in real estate, and it's pretty obvious what the "exclusive property with low Union County taxes!" is code for.

A lot of the Southern rural areas where a high percentage of people vote Republican are desperately poor. No, they're not on here reading the NASCAR trash and let's nuke the South and the WalMart underclass comments but they are aware of the attitude and it doesn't really make them want to vote for Democrats. Because they are desperately poor, their schools suck and their local libraries suck and they can't afford books and so they also end up desperately ignorant and damaged.

It's not so much that they make a rational self aware choice to vote Republican and to be prejudiced and all that. It's more that we've left them to fester and rot and so we really shouldn't be surprised when they come back to bite us in the ass.