I believe the vast majority of straight DUers are completely supportive of the GLBT community

[cali]

that include marriage for all and full civil rights. Yet I keep seeing posts- quite a few of them- claiming that DUers aren't supportive of such things. Sure, there are a few people here who are bigoted against the GLBT community and don't support full civil rights. But, damn, they're a distinct minority. In a recent poll, 95% of DUers said that they supported gay marriage. That's pretty conclusive.

The GLBT community has not been thrown under the bus here at DU. And I think it's sad that quite a few GLBT members of DU feel that they have.

[chimpymustgo]

1. Couldn't agree with you more.

[roguevalley]

46. agreed. people are just in chaos over this awful thing.

[NMDemDist2]

2. Prop8 was an abomination IMHO

I support GLBT rights all the way down the line.

[Warpy]

7. I agree. I also know it won't stand forever.

What we're seeing at DU is a lot of bitterness being expressed through hyperbole. The GLBT community know they're among friends but they have to express their rage somewhere and we're safe.

This is the time to develop a thick skin and realize what the posts are really about.

[crappyjazz]

3. I believe the vast majority of white homosexual DUers are not racist

But we're being told over and over and over again that we are.

[cali]

yeah, that stupid little battle sucks. And black DUers are being told

that they're homophobic bigots. Both things are NOT true.

[bluedawg12]

9. I have not seen one black DU'er called a homophobe personally

Not one.

If it's out there please show me where, because that would need to stand up to scrutiny.

But I have seen DU'ers indiviudally called racist.

The difference is between talking about cultures and communities and name calling specific people on this forum.

[LeftishBrit]

10. Agreed!

And hoping that homophobia and all forms of bigotry will come to an end. Or at any rate, stop being implemented into laws.

It's a sobering thought that in the UK, people could be convicted and imprisoned for homosexuality until the 1960s.

[crappyjazz]

12. Agree, totally

thanks

[chimpymustgo]

4. How many dozens of threads have been started bitching about BLACK PEOPLE not voting against Prop 8?

Let's not turn this into another.

[bluedawg12]

11. How many threads have there been about churches,

predominantly white churches like the M0rm0ns? Many.

[TheWraith]

16. The difference is, the Mormons are actually at fault.

They poured a fortune into supporting Prop 8.

[nevergiveup]

17. There are white gays who are racists

and there are white liberal closet racists and white liberal closet homophobes and gays that are Log Cabin Republicans and on and on and on. There will always be these fringe minority elements of any group. America will not be totally free until our gay brothers and sisters receive full equality and I believe a great majority of those here at DU would agree.

[bluedawg12]

24. The GLBT community overwhelmingly supported Obama.

I would venture that an overwhelming majority of white gays supported Obama, worked for him, donated to him and would work for any black issue that supported civil rights.

Now that laws have been passed in protection of racial civil rights, gays want the same consideration and had expected support from Dems of all ethnicity.

[kevinbgoode]

30. Exactly. You can bet they'd be calling us "racists" if OUR

community had voted 70% against Obama. And they'd use a big, broad brush without hesitation.

[dipsydoodle]

5. That's true

but we don't need it rammed down our throats - if you'll pardon the expression.

[cali]

6. So an affirmation about straight DUers supporting the GLBT community

is "ramming it down your throat"?

Wow. That is just sad.

[bluedawg12]

15. " rammed down our throats" are you kidding?

Pardon the expression that you chose on purpose to illustrate your phobia?

[Starry Messenger]

21. No, I don't pardon it. Disgusting. Think before you post. n/t

[yellowcanine]

35. In other words, as long as gays and lesbians "know their place" right?

I am sorry but that is how I interpret the expression "rammed down our throats".

[dipsydoodle]

38. Nope - its an everyday idiom

Ram or force (something) down someone's throat, Informal. to force someone to agree to or accept (something).

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ram+down+someone%27s+throat&

"know their place" is an awful expression in this context which is simple a matter of personal choice.

[yellowcanine]

41. Depends on context - the way you used it sounds just like the rationalizations of racists. Sorry.

I have heard it too many times.

"We are willing to accept them but they should not be so pushy."

"If only they would not be so loud about it."

"They need to understand that these things take time."

[QC]

42. Dr. Freud would certainly find your choice of idioms interesting. n/t

[dipsydoodle]

43. I couldn't think of an alternative one

and a result I purposely added the rider "pardon the expression."

[fascisthunter]

8. Most of the Time, the Negative Gains More Attention Than The Positive

Right now emotions are very high, so I understand the "lumping" of groups and judgements of those groups, TO A DEGREE. Hopefully most, with more time to heal will realize that we are on the same side... we are much stronger togather than divided over the minority of negativity.

[daninthemoon]

13. I'm not sure where this divisiveness has come from, but I don't think

it started here. My conspiracy theory mind would first like to know: who benefits from the split?

[bluedawg12]

18. You are right, the split started outside of here

it started when RW religious groups played to the fears of people, no they did not have to educate people, as gays have been admonished to do, they simply played on latnet homophobic fears, split off voets from the Dem coalition and got a hate bill passed.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hZmLBrL36NObNyMR0ghX...
Calif. win emboldens coalition of religious groups
......

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-gayblack8-2008n...
Gays, blacks divided on Proposition 8
For many African Americans, it's not a civil rights issue.
........

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-...
By Jasmyne A. Cannick
November 8, 2008

[ruggerson]

14. That's simply untrue or the Donnie McClurkin fiasco would not have inspired endless flamewars

Many of us were very clear exactly why that was so incredibly dangerous.

Now you know why.

[IndianaJones]

19. the most telling thing in that situation wasn't the blatant attacks, but the lack of support. nt

[TheWraith]

20. No, you were actually pretty delusional about it.

And clearly you still are if you really think that it mattered in the least, or that it proves that DU is homophobic.

[ruggerson]

23. Case in point

(and I realize you're still harboring resentment from being called out on consistently misstating facts.)

[TheWraith]

26. I don't know why I even bother.

If you were unable to acknowledge reality back then, I don't know why I would think you had by now.

[ruggerson]

27. People have memories Wraith

many of us know exactly what went down.

[IndianaJones]

28. hell, people have google. nt.

[ruggerson]

29. exactly n/t

[mondo joe]

31. Indeed. NT

[NorthernSpy]

51. Oh GOD, are we back on McCLURKIN?!?!?

:banghead:


YES, Obama disagreed with some remarks that "ex-gay" Donnie McClurkin had made, but refused to cut him dead and feed him to the wolves, like some people wanted.


And some of us agreed with Obama that disagreement was enough and that there was no need to shred that guy. And you just can't let it go.

[MrScorpio]

22. So true

I'm right there with you

[shadowknows69]

25. Thank you cali

K+R

[izzybeans]

32. If there are DUers who don't support equal rights for all they are very few.

and they are on the wrong board.

[yellowcanine]

33. It is a profound disappointment to me that so many Obama voters voted for Prop 8.

I see it as a straight civil rights issue. Prop 8 codefies discrimination against one group of people based on religious belief. Don't see how anyone who values protecting civil rights can support that.

[shadowknows69]

36. Because religion can skew those values

It takes it out of their minds as a civil rights issue and it becomes an issue of church dogma. If you hold the Bible to be greater than the law of man it becomes easy on the conscience to deny the rights of those deemed "evil" by the clergy.

[zehnkatzen]

34. I am straight, and I am unquestionably in favor of equality for the LBGT community.

Anything else is advocating cruelty for people you don't like. And we need to get beyond that.

[Toasterlad]

37. The First Part of Your Statement is True. The Second Part is True Not Always.

[Forkboy]

39. The GLBT community is always thrown under the bus, here and elsewhere.

We see it play out in every election. There have been enough people willing to tell the GLBT community to go away or be quiet until after each election that I don't blame them for feeling tossed aside. Add to that the fact that this year Prop 8 passed, and the two Dem choices themselves were less than enthusiastic about gay marriage (to put it mildly), and I can see why they feel like DU and Democrats in general are less then welcoming to them quite often. Vote for our choice, but shut up while you're doing it. And maybe, if you're lucky, we'll consider you equal by the time we leave office.

To many, gay rights is just a pet issue, just a subgroup to cynically push when needed. But to the community itself this is their life. It's not an issue that goes away until the next time they log onto DU. Seeing those kind of comments, whether it's from 5% or 50%, in a place that should instead be pushing their rights front and center has to be pretty disheartening, to say the least. While I do hope they know that there is a lot of support overall for them here, I can understand why they might be feeling less than loved. And to be honest, if I was gay I'm not sure a DU poll would be making feel a whole lot better about things.

[cali]

48. There's a HUGE differenced between 5% and 50%. That shouldn't

even have to be pointed out. And sorry, gay rights is not just a pet issue to many of us straight folks. It's a vital issue that we won't back down from- whether it's an election year or not. My point was simply that the support here for full civil rights for the GLBT community is strong. And I think that's important.

[LatteLibertine]

40. I'm "straight" and yes I support the GLBT community

Prop 8 is BS.

[yurbud]

44. a few shills have done usual trick: make their numbers look greater by starting a lot of threads

[Howler]

45. We here in Howlerville...

Immediately signed all the petitions here on the DU to repeal prop eight.And sent them on to all our e-mail contacts.
We signed up for the GLBT news letters.
And donated money.
We know that this country is not truly free until ALL its citizens are equal.
We live in Dayton Ohio And will turn out for any meetings,demonstrations,etc in support of our GLBT citizens.
my husband works at the air force base but I am a housewife that has nothing but time to work at righting this wrong.
The gay community is not alone.

[jonnyblitz]

47. things always seem better to those who are not on the receiving

end of the shit that is flung.

[baby_mouse]

49. I concur. NT

[Athens30603]

50. I know I am. n/t

[Lyric]

52. Well, I suppose that depends on how you define "support."

If your definition of support involves *saying* that you support it, verbally defending gay people, voting for the rare piece of gay-friendly legislation, etc--then yes, DU is very supportive.

But if support is defined as demanding that Dem politicians support equality, writing/calling/protesting when Dem politicians *don't* support equality, and taking direct physical tangible *action* in support of equality, then no, the support here isn't what it could be.

It's the same difference as was found between the northern liberals who gave eloquent and well-meaning lip service to Civil Rights in the 60's, and the liberals who sat in at lunch counters and got hosed alongside black marchers in the streets of Alabama. We sincerely appreciate the former, but if we ever hope to gain real equality, we desperately need more of the latter. We learned well from the struggle of racial minorities--words are good, but not enough. And there aren't enough gay people to be able to do it all ourselves.

We need allies--not just in spirit, but in a tangible way. We have waited until we had a Dem President, a Dem Senate, and a Dem House. We'll soon have some liberal Supreme Court justices to help even more. We can't avoid taking a strong stand (and demanding the same from our leaders) anymore. Until now, the excuse was that we couldn't do it because we needed to "win elections." Well, we won. We're there--all branches of government in Democratic hands. We will never have a better opportunity than the one we have right now.

So the most important question remaining is not whether or not DU'ers (and Democrats) support GLBT rights. It's this: do we support GLBT equality enough to do whatever it takes to achieve it?