If You are Straight and Reading this...

[Corkey Mineola]

What we GLBT du'ers want is EMPATHY.

Try this.

Imagine that you've just watched one of the most moving victory speeches in presidential history. You've touched champagne glasses with your friends. You've even done a few silly dance moves that could mean the revocation of your straight card.

Then you log on and learn that a ballot initiative in your state is passing by a wide margin. The measure rescinds your right, and all your straight friends' right, to legally marry in the state. It is also apparent that the folks that sponsored the measure, the 'winners', are now going to proceed to annul your legal marriage... it's a matter of time.

Then you go to bed, confused and dejected.

The next day you talk to folks that express their sorrow and alliance with you. Then they say "It's only a matter of time... the courts will decide."

How do you feel at that moment? Does your rational brain rule? Do you shrug off 20, 30, 40 year of discrimination and bigotry with a mumbled assent?


I so appreciate your support. But I want, no I request your empathy.


What if, with the lack of federal protection, your state abolished your right to reproductive health services (abortion)? By a simple majority of voters, many of whom vote from a deep-seated, superstitious fear fanned by powerful interest groups posing as people of faith?

[glowing]

1. I have empathy. I voted NO on my #2 ammendment. I'm sorry that these

amendments were even acceptable on a proposition.. That in itself was wrong.

[roguevalley]

54. you have always had mine. Being an outsider is not limited to gender identity.

I am and have always been with you.

[applegrove]

2. You have my heartfelt empathy. What was done in California is terrible. Let's hope

the courts rule it illegal to discriminate against people on the basis of sexual orientation.

[skooooo]

3. you have my empathy..

..but I'm not sure why it's worth that much to you. It doesn't do you much good, unfortunately.

[backscatter712]

4. You got some from me.

I live in Colorado, and we've been through the exact same thing California's going through now with Prop 8. For us, it was Amendment 2, a vile piece of excrement that legalized discrimination against GLBT people - landlords could refuse to rent to gays & lesbians, businesses could refuse to hire them, etc.

Thankfully, Amendment 2 got struck down in the SCOTUS, and rightfully so.

Yeah - this whole thing pisses me off, and I am straight. How can so many people vote to destroy fellow human beings' civil liberties?

[DS1]

5. You have mine. It's a hell of a thing to win one for a change, and then have

it taken away by a bunch of ignorant fuckheads.

I've just been studiously avoiding the Prop 8 threads, they're still at a stage where I think any of my replies will have at least one fault found in them and dragged through the mud.

/end transmission

[Corkey Mineola]

8. thanks

the more flawed the reply the more honest

[EFerrari]

6. Of course! And DU as a whole has been furious about what just happened.

There's empathy AND sympathy here. Please let's not lose sight of that.

[cali]

7. Not only do you have my empathy, you have my committment

to work as hard for gay marriage here in VT as I did 10 years ago for civil unions.

[Corkey Mineola]

11. thanks

We had an amazing march last night.
My husband sat in the street with some other folks (not sure how I feel about THAT... I was rehearsing a play... He needs to wear an orange vest to his protests... and a helmet)
We are on fire here in SF.. This thing has energized us in a much needed way.

[HamdenRice]

9. You're not going to get empathy by saying, "OK let's vote slavery back"

I've been empathetic, even active on the marriage issue for over a decade.

But in the days after I read posts saying: (1) let's vote slavery back, (2) blacks are now my enemy, (3) blacks did this because they are sexually dysfunctional, and incapable of intimacy, (4) blacks are bigots, (5) blacks are stupid, religious zealots led by fundamentalist preachers.

Is that how you gain empathy?

Did you call those posts out?

Or did you excuse them?

I didn't see anyone call that shit out.

[QC]

15. Could you link to those threads?

I would like to alert on them.

Thanks!

[HamdenRice]

20. No, I don't collect links to stupidity in my favorites list

But you can go to the AA forum to see commentary on the variety of really vile shit that was spewed the last few days. There may be a few links there.

[ruggerson]

17. How do you think Bayard Rustin would have reacted to this?

and I'm not being facetious.

[yardwork]

39. Did the author of this thread say those things? If not, why are you accusing her of doing so?

Or, when you say "You are not going to get empathy," do you mean all of us gay folk? Are you saying that none of us deserve empathy because some anonymous people posted hate speech on an internet?

What is the purpose of this post?

There have been a lot of calm, thoughtful posts and threads here from gay people that sank like stones over the past week. Hardly anybody bothered to post on them or acknowledge that any gay people were not racists. I posted a thread noting that the exit poll might not be accurate. I posted another thread talking about how we need to move beyond who voted and move into why and what we can do about it to promote human rights for all. They both sank like stones. Instead, dozens of DUers have posted threads complaining about how bigoted gay people are being here on DU. Not one of those posters - some of them very longtime DUers - bothered to post on my thread or any of the other threads appealing for calm. Nobody has acknowledged that the vast majority of posts from gay DUers have spoken out against racism.

Instead we get posts like this. "We" are at fault because "we" are racists.

I'm a long-time DUer who supported Barack Obama for president and often speaks out against racism. I'm also gay. The things I've read here against gay people this week have hurt me to the core.

The worst thing in the world is to be called a racist. A lot of longtime DUers have done exactly that, calling out me and every other gay DUer as racists without a shred of evidence. Suddenly the words of anonymous bloggers and anonymous people in crowds are applied to every gay DUer.

How is this not just as bad as claiming that an exit poll "proves" that all African Americans are bigots? I've never said such a thing. Neither have the vast majority of gay DUers. Yet we are being trashed all over this forum

Had more rights taken away on Tuesday. Called racists on Thursday.

[HamdenRice]

41. I did not see anyone calling people out

so it's reasonable to assume they agreed. Moreover, the majority of responses in the vilest racist threads, when called out by black DUers just said, more or less, it's a fact blacks are bigots, why can't we call out homophobia, etc.

Here's a thread that starts with an citation of an article by someone who is both black and obviously mentally disturbed who argues that st8 black males are homophobes because they are hyper masculine and incapable of intimacy with their women. Was there a single objection to it? No.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4403469&mesg_id=4403469

One the other hand, there was a response asking for a referendum on a return to slavery.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4403469&mesg_id=4405238

Did any LBGT call that person out?

No.

I've read more bullshit that would not be tolerated on FreeRepublic in the last few days here on DU than I can even manage to keep record of links on.

If you want some sort of reconciliation, perhaps you should first state your position unambiguously about your view on the return to slavery. My great grandparents were slaves, and frankly I don't think it's a good idea to return to slavery because Prop 8 passed. Do you?

[yardwork]

42. You are completely misrepresenting both those posts. Their purpose was the opposite of what you say

Go back and reread them.

[HamdenRice]

43. "Sorry, boss, I just an ignorant colored man who kant read too good, you right"

That's one possibility.

The other is that I understood them perfectly and you're too blinded by your own bias and defensiveness to see what they are about and the impact they have on readers who are not white.

[ruggerson]

52. Or maybe you're not being upfront about how you really feel about Prop 8

I've noticed you've written that people "only voted to keep a verbal distinction between marriage and civil unions."

That's what you really think the sentiment behind Prop 8 is about?

A "verbal distinction?"

Care to elaborate?

[The Shadow]

10. You Have My Empathy!

But we live in a democracy. Sometimes it doesn't always turn out the way we want it to. We live in a country that is governed by the rule of law, not mob rule. Hypotheticals don't count here, the only thing that matters is the issue at hand. the only way to defeat these powerful interest groups is to remain steadfast in your convictions. Educate others around you, there are unfortunately, so many people that fear you because they just do not understand. Do not feed these haters with destructive behavior as it has no benefit to this cause. Peace, it will come, you know in your heart what is right and so do those of us that support you.

[JitterbugPerfume]

12. all I can say is,

it made me so sad

[sub.theory]

13. You are definitely being discriminated against

I know that has got to be extremely difficult to deal with. I'm not from CA and I'm not homosexual; and yet I too am furious and depressed by the passing of Prop 8. I really can't imagine how angry and letdown you must feel. You certainly are being discriminated against, and it is wrong. It's just wrong.

Don't give up hope, though. You are not alone, and we aren't going to stop fighting. Many of us have our eyes open now. I admit that I didn't think that Prop 8 would ever pass. I'm from IN - and that's the sort of crap we have to deal with here; that's now that way things are in progressive CA. Or so I thought. I was certainly wrong, and that was a mistake.

Don't give up. This isn't over. Like President-elect Obama said: the greatness of America is that it can change. This amendment can be overturned too, and it will be.

[Tikki]

14. You so have my empathy and, also, I am angry.....

because I know exactly what a marriage is and why the fight for marriage equality
is so important.


Believe me...some of the most ardent foes of same sex marriage are the worse
walking around examples of what a marriage is and what a human is...

Tikki

[Corkey Mineola]

19. cool and thanks

great observation about the institution of marriage.
Another area that needs some examination.
Maybe we gays ARE out to reform marriage. Maybe it NEEDS reforming...
:)

[magellan]

16. You've got mine

My best friend of 20 years is a lesbian who lives in the SF area. I'm as upset about the passage of Prop 8 as she is. My husband is incredulous. Here in FL we had a similar amendment -- Prop 2, "Marriage Protection". It sailed through with 62% of the vote...Which is just a reminder that FL is still a seething hotbed of ignorance and fear-inspired discrimination.

In case anyone was lulled into thinking different just because this state went Blue on Tuesday.

We really expected better of CA.

[Believing Is Art]

18. You can't get empathy from everyone

I support gay rights, I voted against the state amendment to ban gay marriage when it was on our ballot in '04. I support you, I have sympathy for you, but I'm straight and frankly cannot imagine how you feel. I won't fake empathy when I can't feel it.

*edited for typo

[Corkey Mineola]

21. super honest. Thanks

[TomClash]

22. You've got it

It's a spoiled victory for anyone with a brain in Cali.

It is difficult to fathom why gay marriage is supposedly bad. I really don't get it except as a right-wing political maneuver.

NY may take this up soon - the same forces of evil will be present.

[RobertDevereaux]

23. Prop 8 and the other election day outrages against LGBT folks...

...are a disgrace to humanity at large and to this nation.

You have my empathy to the max!

[RobertDevereaux]

24. Prop 8 and the other election day outrages against LGBT folks...

...are a disgrace to humanity at large and to this nation.

You have my empathy to the max!

[Corkey Mineola]

26. thanks

i need some good shakespeare energy too, btw... got an audition on Monday....

[earth mom]

25. I would bet that the majority of DUers feel empathy for the gay community right now

I know I do.

But the fundie whack jobs are everywhere, even here on DU. I know because I've tangled with them many times here.

As someone posted on another thread, the gay marriage issue can NOT be solved with public opinion.

It really needs to go before the Supreme Court.

[JJ]

27. You have my empathy.

You didn't have to tell me how to feel, it was natural.
Now please tell me what I can do.

Someone in another thread posted links to legal funds to help challenge that abomination in the courts.
How about a DU fundraiser to support a legal challenge to overturn Prop. 8 similar to the fundraiser for Obama.

I'll pledge $50 to start, and challenge every DUer to the same. If someone could please tell me where it would do the most good, I don't know where to even begin to look.

[Corkey Mineola]

28. Thanks to all who have expressed EMPATHY

you rock!

[WindRiverMan]

29. You have my empathy and my outrage!

I despise it when people come in and try to impose their values on anyone. I don't want anyone telling me how to live. Your loss is a loss for everyone. Every time someone loses a right, it hurts all of us, and diminishes everyman.

[Sebastian Doyle]

30. There simply is no justification for what was done in California

Don't get me wrong, I would be just as appalled by any ballot measure against gay marriage, but this far exceeds the others, because it involves the stripping away of existing civil rights.

You can argue gay vs. straight or gay vs. black or gay vs some church who wears magic underwear, but the real issue is taking civil rights away from a group of people by a matter of popular vote

And that simply cannot be tolerated under any circumstances. Right wingers should be just as appalled by this as we are, for that reason alone. Not that I'm holding my breath.

As far as any facetious side arguments about "voting blacks back into slavery" or whatever, I didn't see any posts that said so, but if this bullshit is allowed to stand, then something like that IS possible. Maybe not slavery, but in a state like Georgia, where the electoral system is thoroughly corrupted, it's completely possible that some Klansman, or some extremist church, could put something on the ballot to make "race mixing" illegal.

Because if they can strip the rights away from one group, they can move on to the next one. (Resisting the temptation to rewrite the famous WWII era poem "First they came for the......." here..)

[Berry Cool]

31. You sure have my empathy.

I do not want to see only certain groups of people demonized for what happened. But boy, you have nothing but my understanding for how upsetting this is. I was disgusted when my state, Ohio, voted in favor of its anti-marriage amendment. But really, what happened in California was worse. It wasn't just a failure to move forward; it was a retreat, a step backward. And yes, it's very discouraging.

It seems as if the only hope we have is either a US Constitutional amendment or a Supreme Court that is not like the one we have now.

[Dragonbreathp9d]

32. I've been crusading on your behalf for years

its tough to break ground in Texas. I'm causing a stink on all of my social networking sites about Prop 8

[Pushed To The Left]

33. I will be protesting later today in Orange County. There is a group being formed

in OC to try to repeal Prop 8! Even as a heterosexual man, the Prop 8 result put a dark cloud on what had been a euphoric election night for me. It should have never been allowed to be on the ballot in the first place.

[ananda]

34. I'm not straight, I'm heterosexual.

Straigh implies that others are crooked.

[ClayZ]

35. I am sorry the DUMB people voted this way!

I have a feeling, that we shall OVERCOME this too!

Perhaps this is a place many of us can voice our CONCERN! www.Change.gov

I believe that OBAMA happened in CyberSpace as well as anywhere.

He always mentioned GAY/STRAIGHT as in "ALL of US" section of his stump speech! Let's hold him too it!


No one is free when others are oppressed. ~Author Unknown

[MadMaddie]

36. I just watched a documentary on MLK and "Words that changed

History"!

What I got out of it, the struggle for human dignity is never ending.

We will defeat the hate mongers in this country but we will have to take peaceful means and we will need determination to accomplish this.

We have the opportunity for Obama to appoint new Supreme Court Judges and that will be in our favor.

Don't give up this fight is long from over.

Let's put this in perspective

<snip>
Do you shrug off 20, 30, 40 year of discrimination and bigotry with a mumbled assent?
<snip>

Answer: No you don't shrug it off, you look at MLK and his constant marches, beatings, jail and decide are you willing to do those things to make change.
What are you willing to do?
Will you go to the black churches and refute the lies that the Mormon church put out their with their millions of dollars!
Are you willing to community organize and create a peaceful movement?

[intheflow]

37. I certainly have empathy for all GLBTs, not just the ones on DU.

:hug:

As a woman, I know the GLBTQ struggle has parallels with the suffragist movement. Women worked their asses off as abolitionists leading up to and throughout the Civil War, assuming that when black males got the right to vote, so would women of all colors. But it was almost 60 years before that happened, and then only after a long, hard fight that included court challenges and civil disobedience. It's no comfort, I'm sure, to have to wait for the courts to decide on civil rights for all gender categories. However, I believe equal rights for GLBTs is slated to be the next big advancement of American civil rights--certainly in line before equal treatment for immigrants, Muslims and atheists. And I have much hope that it won't take 60 years. Again, keeping an eye on history, these fights are taking shorter and shorter times to come to fruition. Freedom for slaves came after the first 100 years. The women's right to vote came 60 years later. Jim Crow was taken out 40 years after that. Obama was elected the first AA president just 30 years after that. It totally sucks that it may take another 20 years for equal rights for GLBTs, but it seems as a country we can only overcome one human rights injustice at a time. :(

But justice is coming. I feel it in my very soul. As a movement, gay rights have only been on the national radar screen regularly for 30-40 years. Even among evangelicals, acceptance of GLBTs rises sharply among people under 30, those who have grown up hearing of GLBT struggles and knowing openly gay people. When that generation comes fully into power, I truly believe things will change rapidly. It's cold comfort, but it's all I can offer--beyond my love, support and empathy.




BTW, wtf is up with people who say they don't have a dog in this hunt just because they're not gay or Californians? Civil rights are human rights, and when one group is oppressed, no one is free! Every single person in the US has a dog in this hunt.

[The Doctor.]

38. That's the test I always use.

Put the shoe on the other foot...

I use it on the homophobes too, but they just don't have the imagination.

[Lerkfish]

40. I don't live in california and last election when a gay marriage proposal came up in OHio

I voted in your favor.


why do you keep demonizing US? we're on your side.

[Taverner]

44. You have my empathy, my vote and my solidarity

[JerseygirlCT]

45. Oh you've got it

and a whole lot of empathetic anger, too, I'm afraid. I'm hoping it will be turned to positive things to change this.

No, I know that it will. Because I know that this will change.

But it sucks. It really sucks. And I cannot understand the mindset of a person who could think otherwise.

[MassLiberal]

46. Yes, you have my empathy

It's hard for me to imagine your situation, because what happened this week is so outrageous, but I can do it. :hug:

[baby_mouse]

47. Well posted, and thank you. NT

[TheWraith]

48. Everyone understands that. But let me point out how NOT to get empathy.

Get pissed off when someone correctly points out that the ONLY route this can go is through the federal court system.

Start randomly lashing out, blaming black people in LA for Prop 8.

Run around accusing DUers who ask you to restrain yourselves of being homophobes.

Go off on half-cocked rants about how DU has always been homophobic and people here don't really want gay marriage to be legal.

That is, in a nutshell, what people here are upset about. Believe me when I say pretty confidently that NOBODY here on DU is happy about Prop 8. I have a friend in California who was part of one of the street protests which shut down traffic. If you were there, she was the girl standing on top of the taxi. It's a travesty that something like that passed in CA. And frankly, I understand a certain need to vent. But taking out your frustration on the people who didn't do anything to hurt you is, frankly, asinine.

[mokawanis]

49. Empathy and solidarity

Like many many other straight people I stand in solidarity with the GLBT community. While those arrayed against us are determined to win this fight and continue to deny basic human and civil rights to some citizens, they will be defeated.

[TahitiNut]

50. Solidarity!!!

* This is a public service posting on behalf of the International Association of Fruits & Nuts, Ad Hoc DU Chapter.

:silly:

** This message may or may not reflect the opinions of 1plain1peanut, AcadamiaNut, aquanut, B3Nut, blackwalnut, bobbonutrino, bozosleftnut, bulugnut, BUSHISNUTS, butternut, butternutty, buttnutt, Canadiangunnut, Carnut, CarNutAtl, CA_liberal_nut, Chanute, Coconut Buddha Ape, coconut55, CoconutMonkey, coconut_oil, conspiracy-nut, darlademnut, deeznuts, DemNutz, democratinutah, deznuts, deznutts, donut, donut33, donutrevolutionary, Donuts, donutwant, econut, elvisthenut, fleabitpeanutmonkey, fluffernutter, fordnut, FruityNuts, fuzzlenutz, gaygunnut, GnomesLeftNut, grapenut1998, graphixnut, gunnut12345, HangingSaddamByHisNutsack, hazelnut, HealthNut, Historynut, Jacknut, jakenuts, JaneDoughnut, JustFiveMoreMinutes, just_anuther_gurl, KnuteThingrich, KNUTSY, konominut, leftnut22, leftrightwingnut, leftwingnut, LeftyWingNut, Lefty_WingNut, Lela McNutt, Letters From A Nut, liberalgunnut, LiberalInUtah, lilpnut, Lonenut23, lonenutcracker, loosenut, Lugnut, MACanuto, madminute, MilsurpNut, Minuteman, Minutes, monkeynuts6969, monolithic_juggernut, Mr Peanut, Mr. Peanut, mrpeanut, my15minutes, NONnutcase, NoToCubanRepubnuts, nsaixphnutex, numinut, Nut Grinderswitch, Nutboy, nutcase, nutcracker420, nutcrakcer, nutgrass, nuthatch, nuthead2ub, Nutkinnews, Nutmeg, NutMeg021576, nutmeg08, Nutmeg1576, Nutmeg61, Nutmegger, NutmegJenny, NutmegYankee, nutmeg_express, Nutniks, nuton2wheels, nutone, nutria, Nutrino, NutritionFacts, Nuts, nuts101, nutsco101, nutshell2002, nutsnbolts, NutterFluffer, NuttinBut, nutty left, NuttyFluffers, nuttywoody, nututhissite, oaknut, omgiamgoingnuts, Opera Nut, ornanut, paolonutuni, peanut, Peanut Gallery, peanut3729, peanut57, peanutbrittle, PeanutButter, Peanutcat, PeanutGallery, PeanutOne, peanutz, Permanut, pnutbutr, pnutchuck, pnutfarmer, PoliSciNut, PolitiNut, PublicHealthNut, publichealthnut1, pucknut, Racenut20, reichwingnut, somenut, soulforpeanuts, soulforpeanutz, Soynut, spacenut, Spudnuts, superbeachnut, TahitiNut, the wingnuttiest, tofunut, twominuteshate, undamynutz, Unuttymuh, videonut, walnutpie, weenut1, Wingnut19, Wingnutblogger, Wingnutsawry, wwwalnut, or yoganut.

[LatteLibertine]

51. You have my empathy as well.

I hate to keep repeating myself however-

I can not think of a rational reason as to why gay couples who choose to spend their lives together should not enjoy the same rights as heterosexual couples. I couldn't care less what label they slap on the union. Gay folks should be able to have the same rights.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

53. I think I know something of how you are feeling.

Several years ago I was passionately involved (with 100s of others) in a political issue that involved proposed destruction of something very important to me and to my family. I won't get into the nature of it, but will say the loss was so bitter, destroyed what faith I had left in our democracy, and caused great pain to see what it did to my parents... the "winners" (rethugs and shills) gloated and said amazingly cruel things on local discussion boards. I know this is not half of what you are feeling, but I truly think I can imagine how and in what ways this hurts, and how incredulous and demoralizing, disillusioning it must be
You certainly do have my empathy
:grouphug:

[LWolf]

55. You've had my empathy

since I was old enough to know that there was such a thing as "gay" or "lesbian."

I lost a beloved family friend in 1972, who suicided because she couldn't deal with society's judgment of her, couldn't handle staying in the closet anymore, couldn't handle what happened when she came out.

36 years, I was only 12 years old, and I still grieve for her. For her pain, and for her loss.

You've never met me, but my heart has always been with you.