Anyone NOT supporting FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY

[dbackjon]

Has no business being a member of DU.

[dem629]

1. That'll show 'em!

:crazy:

[IndianaJones]

2. lol. nt.

[Warren Stupidity]

3. I want EQUALITY through NO MARRIAGE for anyone

I want the state entirely out of sanctioning/forbidding religious ceremonies of any sort including marriage. Until we separate the religious issue from the civil issue the STUPID PEOPLE will be convinced by the HATE MMONGERERS that their mega-temple priestess is going to be forced to conduct man-penguin marriage ceremonies at gunpoint.

[Confusious]

9. I agree w/ warren n/t

[FreeState]

14. Marriage IS a civil ceremony - its always done by the power of the state n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

40. Marriage IS a religious ceremony.

And that is the problem. It is both. Until we separate the civil relationship from the religious the hate-professionals will continue to exploit the confusion.

[lelgt60]

19. It's also a practical issue

The term marriage is used in too many laws, both in the US and the rest of the world. Suddenly just having "civil unions" for all will cause a ton of chaos.

Besides, there is another point. It's just not right to deny others rights. By going to some "compromise" concept, that issue may not be laid to rest.

[KittyWampus]

38. so according to you, we can never change ANY laws, it'd require too much work. It's absurd

If European countries can do it, USA can.

Odd how some people make up weird excuses why Civil Unions for everyone won't work.

[lelgt60]

42. Of course not..but why do it the hard way.

It's just way easier to allow gays to marry and use the term marriage.

[Confusious]

39. There is such a thing these days as text search and replace

You also seem to want it right now. Changing the minds of people takes time. The civil rights movement came about because THE PEOPLE thought it was time. By the looks of things, a lot of people don't think its time. And then you have to change the minds of the churches. These are not Public universities Circa 1957. They are private institutions. Are you going to send in the troops? If you are, then count me out.

You cut the bigots up into smaller groups, then tackle them one by one. Tactics 101.

Even though I would like more that I've seen to come to past, this is what I can see we can get today. Tomorrow we can get more.

[lelgt60]

43. You have to legally amend every law - that requires a vote, no? n/t

[Confusious]

45. Not a vote on every one

We hereby amend all laws in the United states which refer to "marriage" to be replaced by "civil unions".
All shall be amended by 2010.

Vote

All done

[lelgt60]

46. I don't think it works that way...

I don't think you can pass a federal law that changes all state laws.

The supreme court could invalidate all state laws , but I don't think they get to rewrite them.

Am I wrong?

Also, not to belabor the point (but I am), there is the matter of laws in other countries. Would they recognize civil unions?

Again, seems simpler to just allow marriage.

[RichardRay]

20. Yup. n/t

[cliffordu]

23. Yep - I'll give up my marriage to prove the point.

[golddigger]

4. Damn straight Skinner...opps, I mean dbackjon!

[Spinzonner]

5. I don't

Government should get out of the business of sanctioning marriage and sanction only Civil Unions which are accessible to all consenting adults and liberated sub-adults and leave the definitions and qualifications for the religious institution of marriage to religions.

[monmouth]

6. I just read a superb article by Harvey Fierstein (sp?) on this

at HuffPo. Gets right down to the nitty gritty about property rights, etc. If you're not in the GLBT world but want to understand this ridiculous discrimination, I suggest you go over there to read it. I love Harvey, the title of his article is "Same Old S%^t.."

[backscatter712]

7. COME OUT, YOU COWARDS!!!

I'm calling you out!

You know who you are. Those who voted for Prop. 8 or otherwise thinks GLBT members shouldn't have the same civil rights as heterosexuals.

Some of you read DU. Some of you post at DU.

Where are you? Why aren't you defending your bigoted point of view?

You're a bunch of cowards!

Bok-bok-bok!!!

We're waiting!!!

[depakid]

12. I doubt many voted for Prop 8- but on the other hand, there are people who think civil unions

are preferable to nothing at all, and are a pragmatic incremental step toward full equality.

[Fla Dem]

26. I didn't vote for prop-8

I live in Florida and voted NO on Amendment 2 which was an "amendment to protect marriage as the legal union of only one man and one woman as husband and wife and provides that no other legal union that is treated as marriage or the substantial equivalent thereof shall be valid or recognized.

I am not gay, but am disappointed that those who voted for Obama, did not extend the same good judgment to this amendment or prop-8.

Florida Amendment 2
----------Yes for Approval/ No for Rejection
Total----- 4,885,009-------- 3,004,584
% Votes---- 61.9%----------- 38.1%

Florida Presidential Results
-----------McCain / Palin(REP)----Obama / Biden(DEM)
Total-------- 4,039,848------------- 4,274,370
% Votes-------- 48.2%------------------51.0%

[depakid]

33. What I think that goes to show is that there's a TON of politcal inertia

that won't be won over easily.

My hetosexual partner and I don't particularly want to be married- and she sure as hell doesn't want to take my surname or be known as Mrs. Depakid- LOL- but there are underlying legal reasons we kind of have to do that.

It's these underlying legal reasons that need first to be addressed- IMO, the marraige angle simply has too many implications for people, and is loaded language that too many folks can't accept (or in our case mostly opt out of).

[skooooo]

8. I don't agree with your statement.

Sorry. But I wouldn't have voted for prop 8 either.

[JanMichael]

10. just out of curiousity, why?

How could someone else's living arrangements affect you in any way?

[skooooo]

34. I'm not saying that it would..

I'm disagreeing with the statement that anyone who doesn't support gay marriage doesn't belong in DU.

Maybe those people would be persuaded to your line of thinking if you explained it to them. Personally, I would have voted no on Prop 8, but not so much because I understand the difference between civil union and marriage, but because it's the more progressive thing to do. There may be Democrats who don't think like that, but I don't think pushing them outside the "tent" will further your cause. Persuade them.

By the way, what's the difference between civil union and marriage in the legal sense? :shrug:

[cali]

11. Could you explain that decision?

[skooooo]

36. See above..

...I think I'm saying it right. It gets confusing.

[AlCzervik]

13. good, a no vote meant yes to marriage equality, that's what you meant right?

[skooooo]

35. That's right..

But I think when you find democrats that disagree with you, you should try to persuade. :hi:

[LWolf]

15. That includes Obama, right?

The president elect recently said:

<snip>

“...I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage. But when you start playing around with constitutions, just to prohibit somebody who cares about another person, it just seems to me that’s not what America’s about. Usually, our constitutions expand liberties, they don’t contract them.”

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1598409/20081102/story.jhtml

I appreciate his opposition to Prop 8. I also note his opposition to gay marriage, which means, according to your criteria, he doesn't belong on DU.

DU will be a ghost town. These days, it's hard to find a thread that doesn't include Obama. Shit, even DU doesn't belong on DU. Look at the banner at the top of the page.

[dbackjon]

27. Obama HURT Equality

His statement opposing Gay Marriage was used on robo-calls.



Until he makes a MAJOR step for Equality, he is not my President.

I voted for him, because the alternative was far worse.


But he does not respect me as a human. Until then, I can not respect him.

[LWolf]

30. I hear you.

:hug:

[Duncan Grant]

16. Anti-gay voters are an important part of the Democratic party's core constituency.

Are you insane?! Get rid of them?! How could we take a principled stand like that?!

:sarcasm: <<<---for the contextualizing apologists

[AlCzervik]

18. i'd love to know how people that voted yes on 8 have been married more than once.

[Duncan Grant]

22. It boggles the mind! And what about adultery?!

Gasp, this restoring marriage thing is going to take a long, long time. :hi:

[AlCzervik]

25. my twice divorced and on wife #3 neighbor had a yes on 8 sign.

he asked to borrow a power tool from me, nope. "It's the sign right, you're not gay so why are you taking this personally" "You're not gay either and me not letting you borrow my sawzall, you should take that personally"

3 of neighbors are dead to me, yes on hate was a deal breaker, maybe that's assholish of me but i just don't care anymore.

[Duncan Grant]

29. I appreciate your principles.

Give them all my regards. Tell them the gays haven't be so energized in years!
They've been a great help to human rights everywhere. :D

[undeterred]

17. Yeah, because we all live in California

and voted the wrong way on Tuesday.

[FreeState]

21. Prop 8 effects every state in this nation

CA married couples from every state - not only that but when you make GLBT persons use a different system under the law you create national havoc with Federal marriage laws (which GLBT persons need!).

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shadowknows69]

41. Because I'm against you lording over DU like you own it I'm a bigot?

[NorthernSpy]

31. Then the majority of Democrats in most states can't join DU...

:shrug:

[Duncan Grant]

32. At least the boards can return to civility again.

"Democratic Underground DOES NOT permit homophobic bigotry and DOES NOT welcome members who oppose equal rights for all." - Skinner

I'd contribute much more money if those "who oppose equal rights for all" were shit canned.

[DS1]

44. DOES NOT welcome members?

It'd be a slow forum


/rimshot
/had to

[TahitiNut]

37. I'm in favor of FULL DIVORCE EQUALITY!

Does that count? :dunce:


:eyes:

:boring: