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"We have no base," Rahm said of the Democratic party.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 09:39 PM
Original message
"We have no base," Rahm said of the Democratic party.
My response to that is yes, we do have a base, a party full of people with ideals and hopes and dreams of making our country better. When you have the philosphy that our party has "no base", then you are free to pursue any group of voters and run candidates with any views at all...if you have "no base."

It's really convenient to believe that though. Makes it easier not to have to stand for something.

The Meaning of the Midterms

But the more compelling story, which continues to unfold even today, comes when Bendavid pulls back from the day-to-day of the campaign to examine what the midterm elections meant for the identity of the Democratic Party. In an election where more moderates and centrists were elected than in any year past, many -- bloggers being the loudest among them -- have wondered whether the party has abandoned its base.

Certainly Emanuel holds no such romantic notions that there even exists such a base of voters loyal to core Democratic values. He is adamant that "we have no base!," a view that clearly guided his strategy for selecting candidates. As Bendavid writes, "he would not support the most loyal Democrats, or those whose populism was purist. His only criterion, he said, was who could win."
This kind of single-minded, values-be-damned vision is anathema to some on the party's left. Writing for The Nation after the election, John Nichols complained that "many of the Democrats who prevailed on November 7 did so despite Emanuel's efforts, not because of them" and argues that liberal candidates could have won had Emanuel made the decision to support them. Yet as Bendavid points out, "of the 30 candidates who took seats from the Republicans, about 20 had been nurtured, funded, advised, and yelled at by Emanuel for months. Perhaps a half dozen had been supported by grassroots activists with little help from the DCCC."

The relationship that epitomizes the rift between Emanuel and the party base is the congressman's tenuous partnership with Democratic National Committee chair Howard Dean. As the book relates, Emanuel spent most of the campaign furious with Dean, whose Fifty State Strategy to build up party infrastructure nationwide he saw as little more than a way to throw money to the wind. In May 2006, Emanuel and Senator Charles Schumer, his counterpart in the Senate, met with Dean to ask for more money for their respective campaigns. Banging his hand on the table, Emanuel chided Dean's grassroots plan, "No disrespect, but some of us are arrogant enough, we come from Chicago, we think we know what it means to knock on a door. You're nowhere Howard. Your field plan is not a field plan. That's fucking bullshit." The two wouldn't speak again until election time.


When you believe that you have no base, and running real Democrats does not matter...you end up picking millionaire Republicans like Tim Mahoney.

It's really convenient to believe that. Makes it easier not to have to stand for something.

Just as a reminder since Rahm accused Dean of money issues, people are never told that Howard Dean far outraised Terry McAuliffe.

The issue now is money -- not so much Dean's ability to raise it but his propensity to spend it. From Jan. 1, 2001, when Terence R. McAuliffe took over the committee, through March 31, 2004, the DNC raised approximately $127 million in funds that could be spent directly on campaign activities. Between Jan. 1, 2005, and March 2008, the DNC raised $190 million, considerably more.

But the DNC had $27.5 million in the bank at this time four years ago, as opposed to $4.4 million now. Dean aides say that money was well spent, creating organizations in all 50 states upon which Obama has been able to piggyback his campaign, reaching deep into an untapped electorate and developing the DNC's most complete national voter database ever. The investment will pay dividends not just in November but for years to come, they say.


It did pay off in conjunction with Obama's powerful campaign which mostly combined with the local parties. We had a victory.

The staffers are being laid off at the end of November.

Here in contrast is what Howard Dean said about the base.

Dean's permanent campaign

My view of all of Democratic politics is that we’ve been making a mistake. The Republicans figured it out before we did. We’ve got to energize the base voters and get them enthusiastic. The swing voters will come your way because they’ll be swept up in the enthusiasm.


Yes, our party does have a base. It is dangerous to say we do not. It leads to becoming just like the Republican party.




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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. They know what is expected and they will deliver. Watch.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
244. They Just Delivered Howard Dean's Head on a Platter. Everyone Dean hired will be fired
Of course, plenty of upscale Dems view Dean as a kook, are glad he doesn't want to serve under Rahm and is willing to leave of his own accord.

They have no problem with firing grassroots staffers hired by Dean in Southern states and restoring local business executives/cronies who kept the party records off the books for 30 years in an effort to keep blacks and "new voters" out of state committees after the McGovern reforms opened up committee membership.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-12-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #244
257. So much for "hope"
:cry:
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. What he's saying is that we don't lock step. @ least we used to free think
Edited on Sat Nov-08-08 09:43 PM by xultar
and have a big tent not so sure now though.

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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Yeah, we seem to be getting better at lockstep. n/t
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
219. Agreed.
:hi:
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. Bingo, madfloridian. Fuck you Rahm. n/t
Edited on Sat Nov-08-08 09:45 PM by Double_Talk_Express
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JimboBillyBubbaBob Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
188. I offer a second!
Here, here! Well said!
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. who is it? who are you excluding? nt.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Do you want one-party control?
Just wondering. And don't call me names. I've been called enough of them this week.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. what names? Just asking who the base is, so I can know who isn't. nt.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I think that is a useless question designed to defend the indefensible.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. are you part of the base? nt.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I will say
good bye as we have been this route too many times.

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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Go Rahm! nt.
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
29. I'm curious, why did Obama diss you guys so hard a few years back? n/t
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. to get you to vote for him? nt.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #30
245. And it worked! Your so happy with yourself, DemStrategist.
Run along now and tell your boss how you enjoy laughing at the fools on the liberal and lefty blogs. Anyone who's listened to the talking heads know they ooze contempt for us.

You just want to keep the charade going a bity longer in order to troll before you openly declare your contempt for the left wing of the party.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
33. "Go Rahm!" says the person with the DLC avatar. Color me shocked. n/t
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #33
48. Hello? I'm DLC too and
I'm in disagreement here on this issue with IndianaJones....this is what I like about DLCer's, we can disagree, we don't have to be in lockstep 100% of the time with each other, we are independent thinkers who often think outside the box.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Yes she is
But by viewing your avatar, you aren't.

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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. at least some exclusionists have the courage to say it. nt.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. Like the DLCers?
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. I never see "DLC'ers" making posts like this...just the increasingly irrelevant left. Go Rahm! nt.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Why bring attention to themselves?
They were created in 1985 and have done jack shit, besides dividing the party. Their corporatist agenda does NOT fit into the Democratic Party's.

They are NOT for We, the People and as one of those people, I say, they can go fuck themselves.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Obama is wise. Go Rahm! nt.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #31
61. Rahm is corporatist idiot
Go Dean!
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #61
187. He's no idiot. He gets paid for his corporatism.
His cheerleaders on DU probably don't.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #187
199. Hmmm, I'm not so sure about that
(About his cheerleaders.)
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #199
206. In THAT case, RRRRRAHHHHHMMMMM RRRRRRRRAWWWXXX!!!!
Edited on Sun Nov-09-08 06:04 PM by Jim Sagle
Just kidding.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #206
207. lol
Need some extra cash?
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #28
56. "done jack shit" Huh?
Like you mean getting the FIRST Democratic President elected since 1976 in 1992, and then getting that Democratic President elected to a second term in 1996....the FIRST TIME since FDR that a Democratic President had been elected to a second term.

Yeah I really call THAT the DLC doing "jack shit"

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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #56
76. Gosh...what have Rahm and the party bosses/DLC done for us?
- NAFTA

- Telecom immunity

- funding Republicans to run as Democrats....getting Tim Mahoneys in the process
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #76
83. What I don't like about the Left-Wing is this, you ALWAYS appear hostile and angry
Why?

Why do Left-Wingers posts to ANYONE that doesn't agree 100% with them, why do the posts come across as hostile and angry EVERY TIME?

I think, as a DLCer I do use restraint when addressing Left-Wing Democrats, or whatever you call yourselves, Left-Wing Progressives or some such.
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #83
171. I think you're an exception.
Edited on Sun Nov-09-08 03:43 PM by DireStrike
Although you do have the condescension thing down.

My view is this - the DLC is nurtured by the rich elite in the country as a way to maintain their wealth and power. Neuter the opposition party and there is no danger in losing. Effective ways to control the populace have been found - just spend enough money on liars/sellouts, advertisement, and opposition group infiltration. More money can always be spent. The only threat would be if real liberals actually did gain power. We are fighting a totally losing battle because we have no resources.

You say you are an economic conservative. In what party do economic liberals belong?

None. We are being driven out of our own party by those who insist we're irrelevant and apparently do not even exist.

Electing conservative democrats does not serve the party's ideals. It serves the opposing party's aims by constantly allowing them to point to a new center, ever further rightward. Which we are told we must chase to win.

In the wake of this election it's particularly disturbing. Even I apparently fell prey to the manipulation tactics - Obama will be no different than the Democrats of the last 50 years - just a placeholder until another rightie can get back in place. He will not kick the ball back to the left at all, and when the Rs regain control they can pick up where they left off. Meanwhile I can be lectured to by smug people who think they are winning victories for "our side".

Honestly I don't see how this can be carried on indefinitely, but if it can the Righties certainly have the money to figure the way out.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #171
184. "Electing conservative democrats does not serve the party's ideals."
Exactly. Turds like Travis Childers, Gene Taylor, Dan Boren, etc. are as worthless as tits on a boar hog.....
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #171
198. You need to make a distinction between Conservative Democrats and Centrist Democrats
Edited on Sun Nov-09-08 05:01 PM by ...of J.Temperance
The two are not the same, I'm a Centrist Democrat.

Centrist Democrat = economic conservative AND SOCIAL LIBERAL.

Conservative Democrats = economic conservative AND SOCIAL CONSERVATIVE.

Re. Left-Wing Democrats, I never called you irrelevent and I never suggested for you to leave our party, you should stay, it's YOUR party to, remember it's OUR party.

What we have to do is COMPROMISE, in real-life things happen usually because compromises have to occur in order to make those things happen.

In real-life NOBODY operates on the philosophy of IF I can't get my way 100% of the time, then I'm going to take my ball home and go and sulk....ONLY little brats do that.

In real-life people work on issues that they can agree on....and on the issues they don't agree on, they compromise.


On Edit: Added comment

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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #198
232. Being an economic conservative and social liberal does not make you centrist
They make you an economic conservative AND a social liberal (and explaining exactly what those terms mean to you might allow finer distinctions). They're not things that average out to "centrist".

Yes, we have to compromise, but it also helps to talk in concrete terms, not ones (like "centrist", "conservative", "liberal", left-wing" etc.) that have been stretched and distorted like taffy over the past few decades.

What, exactly, are you willing and not willing to compromise on?
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #198
236. These are definitions we could play with forever and not agree on.
For example, how is someone who is an economic conservative and a social conservative a "Democrat" at all? I suppose you could argue on degree but it's not a strong distinction.

You seem like a reasonable person though, unlike some others. For example, you say the left isn't irrelevant, unlike indianajones. You also disagree that we don't exist as a party base, unlike Rahm.

In what way are you economically conservative? There are lots of ways to be defined so. I'm afraid I'll never be able to compromise on my view of the constant accumulation of wealth and power by the already wealthy. However, I do agree that government expenditures should be as small as possible, only paying for necessary things like the military (at much lower, non-wasteful spending levels), healthcare, and infrastructure. Of course we also agree that only as much regulation as necessary should be done, but we may disagree on how much is necessary.

Do you understand why the left is wary of compromise? The right NEVER compromises. Every concession we make is a loss. Usually permanant.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #83
241. um, because we're pissed that DLC lickspittles nearly destroyed the party?
that they're corporatist hacks like the GOP?
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Oak2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-12-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #83
259. We call ourselves "the majority", thank you n/t
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #76
91. And don't forget
Edited on Sun Nov-09-08 12:14 AM by dflprincess
welfare "reform" and supporting deregulation of the banks. And their habit of using the right wing tactic of demonizing liberals. It is the DLCers, not the left that is hostile to differing viewpoints and do their best to marginalize anyone who does not think like them.



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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #91
183. Exactly...anyone who disagrees with them is a "loony lib" et. al....they're moving the "center".....
...further right.
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #56
226. LOL "getting the FIRST Democratic President elected since 1976"...
OK, so the DLC got a Democratic President elected after 12 years of Republican administrations and then they lost control of Congress. The Dean, 50-state-strategy wing of the party won back Congress and got the first Democrat elected President in 8 years.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. "increasingly irrelevant left"? as opposed to what -- the "relevant right"?
No wonder you're a DLC-er.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. no...the lefts cousins are irrelevant too. centrists...like your President elect and his new COS.nt
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. "centrists" got us NAFTA, "centrists" got us the war in Iraq, "centrists" are part of the RWoDP....
(Republican Wing of the Democratic Party)
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:33 PM
Original message
you must be unhappy with the results of the election then. lmao. nt.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
47. Obama is not a "centrist". I consider him to be a liberal. I know you don't like liberals.... n/t
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. of course you do. as he reshapes the DNC, and puts moderates and possibly Repubs in his cabinet.nt
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. I don't care if he puts Repubs in his cabinet....as long as they are sensible. However...
...I do not like the party bosses shifting our party to the RIGHT, which apparently is the new "center".
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #49
240. FDR did the precise same thing in regards to staffing his cabinet...
FDR did the precise same thing in regards to staffing his cabinet with moderates and Republicans.

However I would imagine that anyone who would consider FDR a social or fiscal moderate is lacking a serious amount of both contextual and historical relevance.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be too surprised to hear from and to read of the tap-dancing, the defenses, and the posturings of the "bumper-sticker philosophy" crowds...
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #47
62. President Obama ran on a Centrist platform, it's why he was elected in a landslide
Because his platform appealed to Independents and Rockefeller Republicans as well.

A Liberal, John Kerry for example, lost because he ran on a Liberal platform, his platform didn't appeal to swing voters.

President Obama is going to govern from the Center, you better get used to it, because it's going to happen.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. the base of the party is centrist. nt.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. that's 100% wrong and you know it. The base is pro-labor, anti-corporate...which the DLC is NOT. n/t
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #63
70. The base of the party includes Centrists
Edited on Sat Nov-08-08 11:54 PM by ...of J.Temperance
But I wouldn't say the ENTIRE base are Centrist per se. I think we're evolving to the point where a majority of the base ARE Centrist, because as I pointed out up thread, we have expanded our base and reached out and brought more people such as Independents into the Democratic Party voting block, which is good because it means we're now in a position to expand our majorities in both Houses of Congress, Governorships etc.

On Edit: Added comment
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. Define "centrist". Our "base" is pro-labor, anti-Corporate. The DLC is neither.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #72
78. Centrist =
A person who believes in responsible economic policies, fiscal conservatism....a person who also believes in civil rights and human rights on social issues ie. a social liberal....a person who believes that a woman has a right to do what she wants with her own body, a person who believes in full rights for gays, a person who supports stem cell research, a person who is against privatising Social Security etc.

Re. Anti-Corporate....the WORLD is Capitalist....that's Capitalist NOT "Das Kapital"....the opposite of Capitalism is Socialism, and Socialism doesn't work, looks good on paper, in practice doesn't work.

Corporations employ MILLIONS of people around the world, it's NOT the Corporations that are bad, it's the SYSTEM that needs streamlining.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #78
82. "it's NOT the Corporations that are bad" and herein lies the problem. Deregulation doesn't work....
...and that's what the DLC wants.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #82
88. But it's not the Corporations that are bad, it's the SYSTEM thats bad
Corporations, as I've just commented employ MILLIONS of people....BILLIONS of people worldwide even, what do you want to do....smash them and throw MILLIONS and BILLIONS of people onto the unemployment heap?

It's the system that needs changing.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #88
94. No, but corporations need regulating. And we need to quit pandering to them. n/t
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #94
98. I would agree that some regulation IS necessary
We can't put a stranglehold on them, as they're NON-Government entities, the Government does need as much as possible to not interfere with private businesses....but I do think that SOME form of regulation needs to be looked at.
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KnaveRupe Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #78
213. Socialism doesn't work?
Wow.

There are a shitload of Scandinavians who are in for a rude awakening.

Here, they thought they were the happiest, healthiest people in the world. Sure will be s shock to them to find out that they are suffering under a failed ideology.
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #78
228. You're just defining things based on your own personal feelings.
"A person who believes in responsible economic policies"? So... someone like FDR? What is "fiscal conservatism"? That certainly doesn't describe the policies of any Republican administrations we've had in the past 30 years. You must buy into some ridiculous "tax and spend liberal" and "welfare queen" stereotypes if you honestly think there's a split between irresponsible leftist economic policy and fiscally conservative, centrist economic policy. You just haven't been paying attention.
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KnaveRupe Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #62
211. WTF are you talking about?
In 2004, the RW Noise Machine warned America that John Kerry was "The Most Liberal Member of the US SENATE!!"

In 2008, the RW Noise Machine warned America that Barack Obama was "The Most Liberal Member of the US SENATE!!"

Both warnings were complete and utter bullshit.

Both Kerry and Obama ran as slightly-left-of-center candidates, as did every single Democrat running this year except Kucinich. Even fruit-loop Gravel favored the right-wing "Fair Tax" - hardly a liberal position.

So please support your thesis, if you would - what portions of Kerry's platform were "too liberal" to appeal to swing voters, and how did Barack Obama "centrize" those planks to make them more acceptable?

'Cause, frankly, I think you're full of shit. And I mean that with all the respect in the world.
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #62
227. That's so absurd. How did Kerry run more to the left than Obama?
For starters, Obama is believably anti-war unlike Kerry.
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blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-12-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #62
255. Not Exactly
**A Liberal, John Kerry for example, lost because he ran on a Liberal platform, his platform didn't appeal to swing voters.**

He lost because that 2004 election was thieved by the republicans.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #47
134. Obama is a CENTRIST and I say that as somebody from the far
Edited on Sun Nov-09-08 07:46 AM by jonnyblitz
left. that is why I am not a fan of his. anybody who has paid attention knows this.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #41
60. Al Gore supported NAFTA he even went on Larry King to support NAFTA
Remember that edition Gore pro-NAFTA vs Ross Perot anti-NAFTA.

"Centrists got us the war in Iraq", nonsense.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #60
254. Yes, and he was wrong. It's why he didn't win.
You DLC folks don't believe in anything approaching definable right and wrong, only in what's convenient.

Unless you admit you and IndianaJones are tied to a fixed ideological pooint in the spectrum that WAS Reaganism and are willing to admit you are Reaganites.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #36
253. You DO realize "centrist" is defined ONLY in relation to the acceptable left and right.
Read up on Overton Window strategy to realize what a fool you've been for
remaining loyal to a fixed point in the ideological spectrum that was
Reaganism when you were younger (and you presumably voted for Reagan).
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #34
51. We are not RIGHT, we are Centrist, there is a HUGE difference
My goodness, I wish people would learn what RIGHT means and what CENTRIST means, and then see that the two are RADICALLY different from each other.

An economic conservative and a social liberal = A Centrist.

An economic conservative and a social conservative = A Rightie.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. oh..let the mourn. always such disappointment with the way things turn out..just like the fundies.nt
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #54
66. I wish people would be HAPPY, we WON, Jaysus I'm sick of the whining already
Edited on Sat Nov-08-08 11:50 PM by ...of J.Temperance
WTF is wrong with these people throwing daily hissyfits and stamping their feet?

We won, this nonsense began pretty much on Wednesday, the day after the election....of course President Obama and Rahm Emanuel are grown-up, sensible and intelligent people, so I fully expect them to switch off the Whining Brigade and ignore them.


On Edit: Dammit spelling error
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #66
87. Whining Brigade, huh?
Ignore us? That works both ways, bub.

If you and IndianaJones and your :loveya: for Rahm is the new face of the Dem Party then you're welcome to it. Obama and the other Dems on my ballot didn't get my vote so I can be told I'm irrelevant and will be ignored more than I already am.

Fuck you and the corporatist Dems. Keep moving the party right, straight out of the frame like the GOP for all I care. This ends here for me.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #87
90. Yes Whining Brigade, it began on Wednesday, we've had a TON of people whining ever since
Edited on Sun Nov-09-08 12:09 AM by ...of J.Temperance
We won, we have a Democratic President and we have an increased majority in both Houses of Congress, to me that's something to be happy about.

To it seems a ton of people, it's something to whine about.

On Edit: Dammit spelling error
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #66
89. One more thing before I go
Since I'm irrelevant and such a whiner, I'm sure your party won't miss my vote next election.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #89
93. Nobody called you "irrelevant", but the whining needs to calm down
Nobody does pay attention to people who whine and moan about stuff....can't we be POSITIVE here and just be happy that the Republican's have been kicked in the ass in a massive way?
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #51
68. The "centrist" of today is yesterday's conservative.
No, seriously, study some history.

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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #68
73. Absolute nonsense....the Left-Wing of today is yesterdays Communist
There, I can make statement too!

Seems like its you that needs to do the studying.
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #73
158. Except his is correct and yours is something Limbaugh would say
You seriously don't think the "Center" has moved rightward in America?
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #73
246. en.wikipedia.org/ overton_window
Prefer a center-right (what you call centrist) source?

http://www.swordscrossed.org/node/53

educate yourself.
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sandyd921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #51
140. Economic conservatives are the ones
who got us in the pickle we're in right now! Their mantra of deregulation and "trickle-down" tax policies are the reason for the economic debacle we're facing. It would be strange indeed (and tragic) for the party and/or Obama to be heading back in that direction. Hopefully the COS appointment is based on Obama's beliefs in Emmanuel's abilities to get things done not an ideological bent toward the mistaken economic policies of the past.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #51
146. An economic conservative and a social liberal = A Libertarian, not a centrist.
At least, that's the basic assumption, just what the hell is a centrist anyways?
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #146
159. A "centrist" is a conservative with no sense of history. Or perhaps a "good cop."
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #51
157. That depends on degree also.
American "Centrists" tend to be further right than the rest of the world, making them in effect rightist. So from the view of the actual Democratic base, we have a right wing party and a not-so-right-wing party, neither one interested in restoring a proper balance.
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KnaveRupe Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #51
214. Then what's an economic liberal and a social conservative?
How would you define a pro-labor, pro-national-health-care, economic safety net proponent who opposes gay marriage and abortion?
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #51
229. So if you're an economic conservative...
You believe in supply side voodoo economics?

You support the same type of economic policies that got us into our current economic disaster?

You support Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy?

You believe in deficit spending to support massive Pentagon budgets while cutting any and all social programs?

What exactly does it mean to you to be an "economic conservative" that you think puts you on the same page as Obama? What exactly do you think the far left of the Democratic party wants economically?
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #51
233. That's a rather convenient definition of "centrist"...
...in that it doesn't require a person to actually be in the center, just that they don't neatly fit either the "conservative" or "liberal" stereotypes.

Although I acknowledge the rhetorical advantage of defining oneself as "centrist": one gets to portray oneself as the calm, thoughtful voice of reason, as opposed to all those knee-jerk ideologues to the left and right.

Since I'm not really a neat fit I tend to refer to myself as "left-libertarian". Those, too could be said to average out to "centrist" (and arguably might be more to the real center than your definition), but I don't do that because I don't think it's a useful characterization of my views. For what it's worth, to me the term that comes to mind for "economic conservative and a social liberal" is "yuppie", thought the "y" may be obsolete these days.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
39. The irrelevant left?
Edited on Sat Nov-08-08 11:34 PM by magellan
Care to do without us next election? I'd be happy to oblige.



edited to add graph of the composition of the Democratic base according to a 2005 Pew Research Center study.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. Heh heh, I bring out the very worst I fear. Yeh, let them try it without us.
.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #43
55. Note the dismissiveness paired with taking us for granted
Now ask me why I'm an indy instead of a Dem!
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. you'll turn out...just like the fundies turn out for Republicans. nt.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #44
50. Your faith and a quarter will get you a call to someone who shares your arrogance
773-267-5926 - Rahm Emanuel's Congressional phone number
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. Rahm...the next Presidents Chief of Staff. Go Rahm! nt.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #27
137. "the increasingly irrelevant left"?!?!?!
God, with Dems like you who needs republicans.

GO FUCK YOURSELF.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #27
148. Who are the 'irrelevant left'?
Sincere question, these categories assigned to Dems by supposed other Dems are always puzzling. Eg, if the 'irrelevant left' means anti-Iraq War, torture as a US policy, anti Constitution shredding bills such as the MCA eg, then I would certainly want to be included as part of that irrelevancy, which appears to be the majority of the population now.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
145. The base is ANTI-IRAQ war.
And we are ANTI those who pushed for it,
and enabled it.

If we were NOT, HRC would be the
president elect.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
45. If the ONE party is the Democratic Party then yes
The Republican Party these past eight years have proven that they cannot be trusted, either on domestic issues or on foreign policy issues.

They are basically like kindergarten tots....I think the grown-up's need to be in charge of the show for a generation now, fuck it's going to take nearly a generation probably to fix all of W's messes.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #45
147. The DLC are NOT grown-ups.
You are the filthy uncles in this little
domestic scenario of yours.

I am biding my time before whining.

I believe Rahm will do as he is bidden.

I hope his orders serve the people and
NOT the pockets of corporatists.

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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
40. 'Er, fellow DLCer about to slap your wrist
I believe that the Democratic Party does have a base, there's ALWAYS been a core base in this party, it was primarily built by FDR, and it's evolved throughout the years.

What we've done, since President Bill Clinton, our FIRST DLC President, is that we've reached out and expanded our base and added to it, by developing policies that also appeal to Independents and Rockefeller Republicans, and this is why we've been so successful.

I LOVE Rahm Emanuel and I agree with much of what he says, but it's silly for him to declare that we have no base, when clearly the opposite is true.

As a Centrist, I wouldn't call the Left of our party "increasingly irrelevant" like you did downthread, they are as relevant as we Centrists are, we are all members of the same party and as such, we really need to sit down and, if we can put our DIFFERENCES aside and talk about the issues where we AGREE and then concentrate on those issues.

I think we need to treat each other with respect and at LEAST listen to each other, I don't like all of this arguing and nit-picking regarding issues that we'll NEVER agree on....lets work on the issues that UNITE us and not obsess about the issues that DIVIDE us.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #40
59. Thanks for trying.
I appreciate that your words.

But I think a lot of us have spent so many hours working and reading political books, and knowing where people stand on stuff. Knowing their personalities sort of.

Hours of feet on the ground work, loads of money donated.

I was so angry during dinner tonight I got tears. It is knowing that we activists and grassroots literally lost the other day when Obama appointed Rahm. The anger won't let me look at him on TV.

Yes, that is my problem, but it is also the problem of the ones who want our party to go so far to the right. It is my problem that I feel the distaste Rahm feels for the grassroots. He's the big guy now, the new party hero. I can either accept it or leave. So the issues are mine to deal with.

They need people to do the ground work, and with Rahm all over that support may not be there next time.

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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #59
96. I just want both sides to TRY and work together on things and be friends
Good grief we don't want a Gridlock situation when we're in control of all three branches of Government.

If you can, try and realise that we have more in common on key issues than you might expect....neither side is the enemy, we need to start maybe UNDERSTANDING each other a little better.

:)
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #96
112. I was fine with all of it until he picked Rahm.
I wouldn't even gripe if he picked moderate Republicans.

Since the win, not one Democrat has even mentioned Dean's name in public. Only Chris Matthews who son was a Deaniac.

Now something is just so weird about that. It's not normal not to thank your chair when you thank every one else.

It's not normal to act like that.

Knowing how Rahm is so connected to Carville and the coup on Dean is hard to forget.

We would have been out of the party after Iraq if not for him.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #112
114. I was never a Deaniac, of course ;), but I do give him credit
For being a great DNC Chairman, and also for the idea of a 50 state strategy....he might make a good Surgeon-General in the Obama Administration :)

I would like the Left in our party to at least give Rahm Emanuel credit for the strategy that in 2006 resulted in our party regaining the House of Representatives.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #114
127. That's just it. That's the problem. The grassroots and Dean shared the victory.
Rahm just claimed it for himself. Watch this video:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/899

""Nine out of the 35 races that were selected by the DCCC were winners...the rest of them were all folks who started on their own with enormous grassroots organizations."

(Key word here is selected. Most started out on their own with grassroots groups and DCCC and DNC helped fund some eventually. I had to listen a couple of times to get what he was saying.)

That is truly amazing, really. The majority ran because they were inspired and wanted to change the country.

He mentioned that some never got much help from either the DCCC or the DNC but won anyway. He named as examples Carol Shea-Porter, Jerry McNerney, and John Hall. He said it was all the netroots, people knocking on doors, people going out and talking to their neighbors.

He said "you can't win without television, but you can't win if you just do television. Reconnecting human beings to each other is the new politics in America, and you're doing it."


It's from 2006. Only 9 of 35 who won started out as DCCC picks. That's been proven. What else has been proven is that only 4 seats MIGHT have turned out differently with more money from Dean..but they still attempted the coup.

The DCCC picks did not do as well as those who started out on their own and later got party help.

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George II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #40
231. And now we're starting that "DLC" crap again!!! Aren't you people EVER satisfied?????
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
156. Huh? Rahm is the one excluding.
Excluding everyone to the left of his "centrist" worldview. No base, sheesh.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
13. Schumer is my Senator, and I cannot wait for him to be replaced by a
person who I believe puts the country above his own ambitions. He is s short-sighted, self-centered opportunist.
His association with Emmanuel makes me think less of Emmanuel.

I am a great admirer of Howard Dean, and I think his 50 state strategy was the foundation for Obama's victory.

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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
150. Mine too, and I share your desire to get rid of him and will be
working to do so when he comes up for re-election.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
14. I'm curious why Obama picked the ineffectual rahm over the proven goods of Dean.
Do you think it's because Obama finds Dean invaluable where he is right now?

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Dean won't be staying as chair.
They are laying off the staffers as we speak. Obama is in control of the DNC.

I think the insiders took back their party.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. heh...Obama is reshaping the DNC too. nt.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. If Harold Ford gets that position, they can kiss my ass good-bye.
Especially after he tried to undermine a good progressive incumbent in his old district.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #23
38. Fuck Harold Ford. Every time I see that prick on TV I change the channel.
Good for Memphis voters that they said NO to racism and anti-Semitism in that bitter primary.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #23
103. Harold Ford and President Obama are close friends, I expect Ford to
Get some sort of high-up position.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #103
104. Christ on a bike let's hope not......he is a homophobic right-wing DINO. n/t
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #104
105. Just the kind of guy the DLC likes (eom)
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #105
108. You are now accusing the DLC of being homophobic?
If you'd like to post links to prove how the DLC is homophobic then feel free....and I mean credible links, not links from well-known anti-DLC sites, we know what those sites are.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #108
111. The DLC and the Blue Dogs [home of some of the biggest homophobes in Congress] are intertwined n/t
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #111
116. I'm not a fan of the Blue Dogs, unlike me, they are social conservatives
I'm a social liberal....and I'm NOT a homophobe, in fact I'm 100% in support of gay marriage and 100% in support of full civil rights for gays.

PLEASE do NOT paint EVERYONE with the SAME brush.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #116
247. Yes, the DLC wing is economically conservative and socially liberal.
Unfortunately, only the white upper-middle class (what Mark Penn calls "the new base") shares that perspective. So the objective is to build a new party around the aspirations of the white upper middle class by playing on class resentment of other groups towards imagined "leftists".
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #108
115. When an organization puts a bigot in charge
it can only mean that the organization does not find that individual's bigotry to be unacceptable and therefore, supports it.

Ford used homophobia as a tactic to try and win his own election. It makes me wonder, how do you suppose he feels about using racism or sexism to win?



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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #115
118. California a supposedly majority "Progressive" state, just voted NO
On gay marriage....California isn't DLC territory....so your theory that the DLC are "homophobic" doesn't hold water.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #118
119. Comparing the population of the state of California to the leadership
and members of the DLC does not make sense.

And, again, Harold Ford has made it clear in the past the he is willing to throw a group of people under the bus to win an election. The members of the organization he has been in charge of are apparently okay with that as they continue to defend him. Tell me, what other groups do you find expendable?

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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #119
121. My post # 116, I already told you I'm 100% in support of gay marriage and 100% pro-gay rights
So I don't understand your comment:

"Tell me, what other groups do you find expendable?"
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #121
125. Eleanor Roosevelt resigned from the DAR when they wouldn't let Marion Anderson SING at Constitution
Edited on Sun Nov-09-08 01:14 AM by dflprincess
but you continue to proudly announce that you are a member of a group that has been run by an man who will deny groups of people their rights if he finds it politically expedient to do so. You can claim you're not a bigot, but you are tacitly endorsing bigotry by continuing to support Harold Ford and the DLC.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #125
181. President Obama is AGAINST gay marriage too....so are you calling HIM a "bigot" as well?
As a Senator and as a Presidential candidate, Barack Obama specifically stated that he supported civil unions, but said that he believed that marriage was between a man and a woman.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #181
182. but he's for other civil rights -- which your precious Blue Dog-DLC Corporate Cabal is against...n/t
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #182
185. According to YOU anti-gay marriage = bigot, answer the question is President Obama a bigot?
Nice try at moving the goalposts, but I'm not as stupid as some people, so I notice stuff like that.

REPEAT:

According to YOU being anti-gay marriage = bigot.

President Obama is anti-gay marriage, so you think he's a bigot?

You have to answer yes, because if you DON'T, it proves as horsecrap your stupid allegation that all people who are anti-gay marriage are bigots.

Someone just posted a thread about how President Obama is anti-gay marriage, in case you don't believe me:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4422945
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #185
186. There's a difference. Obama is pro gay rights in general. Harold Ford is anti gay rights.
You're relying on strawman arguments now....
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #186
189. Both voted FOR the DOMA and YOU said the DLC is bigoted and anti-gay rights
Edited on Sun Nov-09-08 04:30 PM by ...of J.Temperance
Hillary Clinton is DLC isn't she, last time I checked she was pro-gay rights.

There are TONS of DLCers, yet you polarize in on ONE Harold Ford Jr to broadbrush an ENTIRE organization.

You don't know what the heck you're even talking about.

Seems its YOU who's the bigot with your stupid nonsensical broadbrush ramblings about the DLC.

On Edit: Added comment
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #189
193. Obama wasn't even in the Senate when DOMA was passed. n/t
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #193
195. But he would have voted FOR it, he is ANTI-GAY MARRIAGE
According to YOUR theory this makes him a bigot, considering Harold Ford Jr is a bigot according to you.

Faced with this sort of ignorance and broadbrushing, no wonder President Obama is staying clear of the Left-Wing.

And I repeat, you broadbrushed the ENTIRE DLC as bigots, you don't know what you're talking about....go and read a book and educate yourself.

The comments I read like "fuck the DLC", "Corporate Fascist" etc are bigoted comments, but I try and respond with a degree of politeness to such ugly comments.

Unlike the Left-Wing, who are usually always angry and hostile to anyone who doesn't agree 100% with them.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #195
205. Nice try, but Obama voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #189
212. Harold Ford is the chair of the DLC
if the members of the DLC have no problem with a homophobic bigot being the leader of their organization then I have to wonder how committed any of those people are to human rights and I wonder what group they are willing throw under the bus if they decide it serves their purpose.

Wellstone voted for DOMA - a vote he regretted and said he would never cast again if it came up after he listened to people and was made to understand that his vote hurt people.

Yes, if a person opposes Gay rights, including marriage, they are a bigot and that includes Obama. Separate is not equal.

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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #182
192. Blue Dog Democrats are DIFFERENT from the DLC in GENERAL
Read a book.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #192
249. The DLC are only liberal on social issues for upper class, Blue Dogs are conservative thru and thru.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #181
248. I'm not a fan of Prop 8 either, so now you say better to be socially AND economically conservative?
You're willing to give up your social agenda to see your class enemies (resentful working class "special interests" and lefties) burn.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #104
107. "he is a homophobic right-wing DINO"
Huh?

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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #107
109. I don't believe I stuttered. n/t
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #109
110. Post links to prove your allegations, and from CREDIBLE websites
Not the fanatical websites.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #110
113. he voted for the Federal Marriage Amendment, the bankruptcy bill, Terri Schaivo intervention, etc.
It's all in the voting record.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #113
117. And these things make him "homophobic" according to you?
The bankruptcy bill and the Terri Schaivo thing are examples of Harold Ford Jr's "homophobia"

????
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #117
135. No but they sure make him "right-wing". n/t
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TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #113
154. Never mind
Edited on Sun Nov-09-08 02:34 PM by TwilightZone
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #107
142. How about his own words.
October 25, 2006
Ford, Allen Statements on NJ Jersey Decision

First, from Rep. Harold Ford, Jr. (D-TN):

"I do not support the decision today reached by the New Jersey Supreme Court regarding gay marriage. I oppose gay marriage, and have voted twice in Congress to amend the United States Constitution to prohibit same-sex marriage. This November there's a referendum on the Tennessee ballot to ban same-sex marriage - I am voting for it."

I'm frankly mystified that you didn't know this, or are you just claiming ignorance on this matter?
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judasdisney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #23
220. Bingo. If Dean gets ousted, I'm finished with Obama & all of them.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #220
250. Dean just got ousted
His underlings have already been let go at the request of the President-elect. n/t
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #17
99. Why would he reshape an organization that helped get him elected
if not for Howard Dean, we would not have made the gains in Congress the last two election cycles and we would not have seen a Democrat in the White House this year.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #99
251. Rahm insists Dean was a failure and all the talking heads agree Rahm is responsible for victory.
Four legs bad, two legs good.
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Mr Rabble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. I believe this was a nod to AIPAC.
Possibly as a way to do damage control done by the Republicans and to re-affirm our "support" for Israeli violence.
Rahm does happen to be a ruthless partisan, which can come in helpful, but he has a record of being wrong...

I was really disappointed with this pick.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. Because Rahm has a cuthroat take no prisoners appraoch that Dean doesn't
Edited on Sat Nov-08-08 10:44 PM by Hippo_Tron
I don't think Obama picked Rahm for his ideology, he picked him for his style. Obama is the champion for bipartisanship and Rahm is the notorious hatchet man. Having that kind of team can be very effective when trying to get legislation through congress.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. But he picked him for his gatekeeper and messenger.
That is his choice. Knowing where the bodies are, being an a**hole, very important in DC.

And the people who really care are out on their ears.

Yes, it's great having hatchet men running things.

And we are out of the picture now.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #37
69. Unless Barack makes it clear that HE, not rahm, runs the show.
You KNOW I'll be watching!

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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #37
71. The Chief of Staff's job is to get shit done
And Rahm has worked in the White House before and knows how to do that. Yes he is an influential adviser to the President and yes he is the gatekeeper. But I have faith that Obama will have lots of key advisers of all sides of the ideological spectrum and instruct his Chief of Staff to keep the gate open so that he can hear all of those sides.

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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #14
101. Because Rahm Emanuel is a leg-breaker
He can and WILL get President Obama's agenda through Congress, Rahm Emanuel is a pit-bull and he takes no prisoners.

He is perfect for WH CoS.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #101
131. Love those leg breakers who hate activists.
Sounds like a good combination.

:sarcasm:
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #131
238. Activistst don't get legislation passed
Bulldogs from Chicago do.

I don't think people fully realized the influece of Chicago-style politics on Obama until now.

And Chicago-style politics actually manages to get things accomplished.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
237. Dean is proven to have success on Capitol Hill?
Do you know what Chief of Staff is?
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
18. And everyone of them thinks THEY should get to pick the cabinet.
:shrug:
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
19. All Your base R belong to DLC
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tkayj Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
21. Since the Republican base is just an
unthinking mass of ideological zealots, I hope the Democratic base you refer to at least thinks for themselves.
It's OK to have ideals, but don't let someone brainwash you into doing the wrong thing because it somehow has been painted as being consistent with, or essential to, those ideals.

I don't care where I actually fit within the spectrum (central to far left) of Democrats, I don't want to be part of any base. I'll continue to think for myself, and not get caught up in some kind of group contagion.
B-)

(p.s.: If you look up Rahm's voting record, you'll find he's quite the liberal.)
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #21
35. I don't think you have read much of my stuff....
if you think me that gullible and ignorant.

But we can all be happy now. The guy who pushed two Democrats out of FL races so rich Republicans could run is the big honcho now, CoS. One of them was/is a friend, and the other is now reading and posting at DU and planning to run again.

If Rahm is the face of the party, I am not sure I care to continue to be a member. He has some liberal views, fine and dandy.

But people matter, being decent and kind to people matters.

Obama's choice of him has sickened hubby and me.
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tkayj Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #35
133. I stick by what I said.
Click the 'Listen:' link on this page.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6279574
That doesn't sound unreasonable to me.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
22. Sorry, but fuck the DLC. So the Democratic party represents the interests of no one? Of everyone?
All this false unity is a crock of shit. You represent the banks and the depositors? The management and the worker? The bigots and the abused? Oh please.
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
24. Sounds a lot like Dean's 50 State Strategy.
nt
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. No, it does not.
Being inclusive does not mean wasting good Democrats, pushing them out of races so Republican millionaires can run.

"It took a trip to Venus, but Democrats may have finally found a challenger to take on U.S. Rep. Mark Foley, a Republican formerly of Jupiter. While it sounds like the start of an interplanetary battle, Democrat Tim Mahoney said it's really a contest for the 16th Congressional District, which covers eight counties, including most of Charlotte County.

"He's got real competition this time," said Mahoney, a 49-year-old venture capitalist who lives in rural Highlands County in the town of Venus.

..."Mahoney is chairman of vFinance Inc., a financial services company based in Boca Raton.

Democrat David Lee Lutrin, an elementary school gym teacher from Palm Beach Gardens, has also opened a campaign account to run for the seat, but national Democrats are already encouraging their party to get behind Mahoney. Rep. Rahm Emanuel, head of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, has donated money to Mahoney's campaign and was in South Florida earlier this month to help Mahoney raise money. Mahoney said Emanuel is the person who convinced him to run against Foley. "


David is planning to run again, Mahoney is out....and we all know why.

No, you are deliberately misunderstanding what it means.

Friend, relax. The 50 state strategy is done, Rahm is the big guy now. He won. Relax, take it easy, we will be back to the old ways real soon.
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #32
46. I think we are disagreeing, but it's sure good to see Dems in charge again.
In the WH, Senate, and House.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #46
64. The ones who got them there are being shoved out.
As we speak. The staffers are being laid off...there is not communication about anything.

We stopped our donations last week when we heard the 50 state plan was done.

We got a peek at how it felt to be a part of the party, and now we don't have that anymore.

The problem is mine, but others are having it as well. It was a shocking pick and hard for activists to deal with.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
67. I don't trust Rahm at all. Having him on the radar might be better. If Rahm doesn't spend his
energy fighting back at our enemies within this country who will be gearing up to attack - if he continues to harm Democrats, it's going to be rough for me to take.

I don't know if I'll ever learn the dynamics between the DLC and DNC, but I'll put all my pennies on the trustworthiness of Dean.

I keep losing respect for Rahm because of what I'm learning.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
42. Emanuel Is A Goldwater Republican With A Nasty Atitude
Edited on Sat Nov-08-08 11:40 PM by MannyGoldstein
I trust that Obama knows how to use him correctly. I assume that he's the kind of guy that if you say "go take that hill", he'll get it done. But you'd never, ever want him to pick *which* hill to take - that's better left to Democrats.

As to the 2006 election... Emanuel's handpicked semi-Republicans had a lower winning percentage in taking seats from the Rethugs than did the DNC in general. Emanuel underperformed Dean. The DLC strategy of only focusing on battleground states is a failed ideology, and an important reason why we lost both houses of Congress as soon as Clinton took over the party - we never regained Congress until Dean took the reigns.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #42
74. What you said
"As to the 2006 election... Emanuel's handpicked semi-Republicans had a lower winning percentage in taking seats from the Rethugs than did the DNC in general. Emanuel underperformed Dean. The DLC strategy of only focusing on battleground states is a failed ideology, and an important reason why we lost both houses of Congress as soon as Clinton took over the party - we never regained Congress until Dean took the reigns."

is absolutely correct.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
57. our base is much smaller than the Republican base...that's the bottom line
by a 3-2 margin, conservatives outnumber liberals. That's a fact nobody can deny, so when you talk about our base vs. their base, remember that in a base-on-base war, we'd lose just due to sheer numbers.
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #57
80. Not necessarily
The concept of 'liberal' has been demonized to hell and back, so its not suprising that alot of people won't admit to being liberals.

However if you look at party ID affiliation, the democratic party is doing far better with a 14 pt gap between dems/lean dem vs GOP/lean GOP.

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/773/fewer-voters-identify-as-republicans
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #57
132. That's garbage
I have seen that figure thrown around for quite some time.

That's from a self-identification poll. If you ask the same people where they stand on a few key issues, you find there are not more conservatives at all.

The term liberal has been used for almost 20 years as a pejorative term, and now even ardent liberals swear they aren't. We should have fought back against the demonization of that word.

Even so, more people agree with us on the issues. GOPers can only win if the election is about personality or some other trait.
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
58. The democratic base is liberals and minorities
Edited on Sat Nov-08-08 11:47 PM by Juche
Whats so hard about that? I saw a pew voter study that said 19% of voters are 'liberals' and they vote democratic about 90% of the time.

Minorities would include cultural & racial minorities including atheists/agnostics, GLBTs, jews, blacks and probably a variety of others. If in a pinch you can probalby just say blacks & liberals are the base of the democratic party.

That is about 35% of the electorate (30%-ish if just blacks & liberals). Evangelicals on the other hand (the GOP base) is only about 25% of the electorate. And our base votes democratic about 90% of the time while evangelicals vote GOP only about 65% of the time.

Our base is bigger and more partisan. Rahm is full of shit.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #58
75. Don't forget young people..
Edited on Sat Nov-08-08 11:58 PM by girl gone mad
who overwhelmingly vote for Dems.

Do these DLCer types really think young people came out to vote for Obama because Democrats caved to Bush on Iraq and the economy time and time again? Ha!
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. You know how "centrist" those young dems are! LOL! n/t
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #75
84. I'm not sure if I'd consider young people a base
We might turn out to be someday, but I would personally consider them a group that 'leans' democratic (like latinos or unmarried women) rather than a base. To me a base is a group that votes for one party or another 80%+ of the time through thick and thin.

Young people have been trending more and more dem lately though. In 2004 it was a 10 pt margin. By 2006 it was a 20-22 pt margin. Now its about a 35 pt margin.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #58
252. Two dirty words that DC insiders use as epithets.
Even when talking about where to send their kids to school.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
79. Here are the views of the person supposedly next in line at the DCCC
to be in charge of picking candidates and approving them.

I am feeling it is very important to speak out because I am feeling trapped. I could never go to the GOP as it is now. I don't know what I will do in the future.

But having felt sort of a part of things in the party for 4 years or more, now I don't. I don't feel a part since he was picked.

The next one up at the DCCC has the same ideas. We lost 3 very valuable races in South Florida, no blame attached. But we only went +1 for congressional seats though we went blue for Obama.

Wasserman Schultz insults FL Dem candidate...says "don't pull that populist stuff on me."

He was excited about meeting her at the convention. He left feeling differently. He is going to run again also.

SO to my favorite candidates in FL....David Lutrin, Doug Tudor, and Jan Schneider among others....this post is for you.

I see the direction we are heading and it only took a few days. I will speak out.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #79
85. DINO DWS also blew off Annette Taddeo and others .....
.... running against the Diaz-Balart brothers and Ros-Lehtinen (The Crazy Cuban Reactionaries). She's a hack that rhymes with witch.
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
81. "It leads to becoming just like the Republican party."
....which is precisely what rahmbone and his corporate masters want to maintain....government by, of and for corporations....

....Dean needs to make a copy of '...the DNC's most complete national voter database ever.'....
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
86. This is from 2007. The midterms. Now we have a "movement'
with Obama.

The article was about how Rahm helped engineer the Dem, mid term ouster of repiglicans.

Obama went to the base ethnic minorities, gays, unions, blue collar and then broadened his message to include everyone.


........
The Meaning of the Midterms

A new book examines Rahm Emanuel's hardball strategy in the midterm elections, and wonders if it's the right direction for Dems.

Sarah Goldstein | May 21, 2007 |
........
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #86
92. And we won the midterms in large part because of progressives ....
Edited on Sun Nov-09-08 12:12 AM by Double_Talk_Express
who got little help from the DCCC...Carol Shea-Porter, John Hall, Paul Hodes, etc.

Had the D-Trip chose to fund progressive candidates like they funded their Corporate Hack ex-Pukes....we would still have control of the congress, only with better people in it! Thanks to the DCCC, we have bottom of the barrel chickenshit right-wing "Dems" like Travis Childers, Heath Shuler, Jim Marshall, et al roaming the halls of congress instead of strong progressives who the DCCC could have chose to fund like Vic Wulsin, Annette Taddeo, Josh Segall, etc.
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Lord Helmet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
95. you seem stuck on past events that don't matter now
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #95
97. Events do matter, greatly. The words I posted are from the big guy
in the party now. He's next to president, by his side in pressers.

I am stunned at some of the comments, but I guess I should not be surprised anymore.
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #97
100. That was Rahm in 2007, before Obama was party head,
I still think we have a base and then beyond that, a movement. The comfort is, that Obama did go to the base.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #100
102. So you think Rahm had some sort of epiphany? Ha!
Once a slimeball always a slimeball.
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #102
106. I think Obama is in charge and Rahm will follow.
I don't think he would have been picked if it weren't the case.
Obama is a smart man, so far hasn't missed a beat. Let's hope...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #106
129. Then it's Obama sending out termination notices for the 50 state plan.
It is his decision.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
120. I'm glad I am not a registered democrat anymore.
I can't belong to a party that employs snakes like Rahm. Fuck him and fuck the DLC. They are DINOs (and really should be Republicans).
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #120
122. They ARE republicans, supplanting any Dem from the Dem party
or, the former Democratic Party, from being elected to an oposition party. I want an opposition party. But at least the crime family is out and mere corporatists seem to be massing. I'm afraid they're going to splinter the base (I think there is an ignored, marginalized base) and hand power back to the Repub crime family.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #120
123. we're glad too. bwaaa. nt.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #123
126. The Democrats can't win without the left
Edited on Sun Nov-09-08 01:16 AM by dflprincess
so don't be too happy to see us go.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
124. he (and the rest of the "new" DLC "democrats" certainly *Act* as if they have no base
they abandoned me along about 1994.
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LASteve Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
128. Not happy about this appointment
An understatement.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
130. Recommending, yet remaining cautiously optimistic that Rahm will be good for Obama
Edited on Sun Nov-09-08 02:21 AM by lostnfound
as his chief of staff.

Dear Madfloridian, I greatly appreciate your thousands of posts, your defense of my beloved homestate of Florida, and your good sense in warning us all about the corporatists putting up obstacles to the populists. The name Rahm Emanuel will be forever linked in my mind as a central figure in that critical issue, because of your threads. Like you, I am a huge fan of Dean.

And it is still important for us to have our eyes open to the corporatist vs progressive populist or grassroots populist battle. Thus I am recommending. I am angry, as you are, about the situation with Mahoney and others.

After 8 years of hopelessness, maybe I just need to feel optimistic, but I am hopeful that Obama is a good judge of character and of the flows of ideology that run through Washingtonites including his friend Rahm, and that he is clever like a good coach at placing his players in positions where their strengths can be most useful and least detrimental. Obama is going to need breathing room from a massive full court press of interests and crises demanding immediate attention. Obama is a strategic thinker. Had Rahm stayed in the House, Rahm was going to continue to demand attention and continue to be a major power player with his own agenda. As COS, two scenarios are possible: one, he could continue to act as an obstacle to the people's interests by giving only corporatists access to Obama -- which would be terrible -- or two, he could be a useful and powerful force, loyal to Obama, who will give Obama the breathing room he needs and will ensure that Obama's agenda gets swift course through Congress. If Obama's goals are aligned with what's best for the American people -- and I am cautiously optimistic that they are -- and if Rahm is loyal more to Obama than to a purely corporatist ideology (who knows), then his service as COS might be a case of putting a player in the perfect position where his strength can be most useful.

Only time will tell.

I'm not sold on the idea, but I am adopting a wait-and-see attitude.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #130
136. Mr. President Obama is smart enough to analyze very quickly whether or not Rahm is doing a good job
or whether he isn't. :D
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
138. amazing
The one most common argument we heard during the primaries for supporting Obama was "he is anti-DLC."

Now it is "he is a centrist, always was, and the DLC won the election for us and is the future of the party."

Remember before the election, people said "now is not the time for dissent! We must win the election!"

Now we hear "ha ha it is too late to express your dissent now, you are irrelevant and have no power. Suck it up you whiners!"
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-12-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #138
258. Many were fooled by the first argument
I tried to warn them, and got called a lot of nasty names and told to shut up.

That's why I have no sympathy whatsoever for the OP.

That's why I've pretty much spent this past week laughing. Schadenfreude is a poor substitute for representation...but at least it's something.




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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
139. The article states:
The relationship that epitomizes the rift between Emanuel and the party base is the congressman's tenuous partnership with Democratic National Committee chair Howard Dean. As the book relates, Emanuel spent most of the campaign furious with Dean, whose Fifty State Strategy to build up party infrastructure nationwide he saw as little more than a way to throw money to the wind. In May 2006, Emanuel and Senator Charles Schumer, his counterpart in the Senate, met with Dean to ask for more money for their respective campaigns. Banging his hand on the table, Emanuel chided Dean's grassroots plan, "No disrespect, but some of us are arrogant enough, we come from Chicago, we think we know what it means to knock on a door. You're nowhere Howard. Your field plan is not a field plan. That's fucking bullshit." The two wouldn't speak again until election time.

That is right up there with Carville telling Kerry to concede - even though Carville knew there were enough uncounted votes in Ohio to give KERRY that state.

At least Dean did not waiver in his committment to what he knew was right, and what he knew would work. Which is perhaps why we have our guy in the Presidency as of Jan 20th.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
141. The "winning is everything" DLCer's like Emmanuel is why I'm a DINO.
"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
143. kr for an excellent post. nt
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
144. I really dislike Emanuel.
When he says "we have no base" he's basically saying "we have no values." That's nonsense.

I think he can be a very effective Chief of Staff if he does what Obama tells him to do. If he doesn't, though, I hope Obama fires him and cuts off one head of the two-headed hydra known as the DLC. Schumer is the other head, and I hope Obama gives him a nice job and then fires him too. That will get them both out of Congress and send an effective message to corporatist Democrats that this is a party of the people, not of the corporations.

The United States is a LIBERAL Country.

:dem:

-Laelth
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #144
151. He's a psychopath....
but he's OUR psychopath.

:sarcasm:

I am HORRIFIED with the choice.

Obama couldn't have slapped the
base in the face harder.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
149. AND while we weren't watching...5 new anti-choice Dems got elected.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4421245&mesg_id=4421245

Rahm's legacy in a way.

Run anyone, dont' worry about their views.

Our party is changing before our eyes and we don't care.
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #149
165. Oh, WE care
We will just never be allowed to have any power, as the line keeps marching further and further off to the right.
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
152. No Democratic base...?
"My response to that is yes, we do have a base, a party full of people with ideals and hopes and dreams of making our country better."

You do not have a base if the party is "full of people" with the same ideals and hopes and dreams".

The Republicans have wide divergences if not outright splits in their party. They have a "base" that differs with the other ideologies in their party.

Democrats, for now, do not. We are a united party with virtually a common liberal ideology. Are there variances from that liberalism? Sure. But not a sharp divergence from the basic conservative ideology that there is among Republicans.

I believe that is what Rahm Emmanuel was saying with his "no Democratic base.".
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #152
153. Read the 2nd paragraph of what he said.
We are on our way to a one-party country if we don't have any standards
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #153
155. You miss the definition of a political party base.......
....a base on which the divergencies in the party build. There may be centrists and moderates and extreme liberals in the Democratic party but you did not recognize that in the opening sentence of your post.

Emmanuel doesn't see, or want to recognize all these divergencies. I cannot see them either. For now.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #155
160. I see them. I see the pain in the gay community, I see the pain we women are feeling
because in reality our rights to choice are basically already lost.

I sure don't think you got my point. That is NOT what Rahm was talking about. He was NOT talking about centrists or moderates or liberals.

His words according to Bendavid:

As Bendavid writes, "he would not support the most loyal Democrats, or those whose populism was purist. His only criterion, he said, was who could win."

Only who can win?

Then he is throwing all standards, all beliefs, all issues out the window. And he stands for nothing at all.

But he is the one closest to the new president.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #160
162. Picking teams and "winning is everything" is why I HATE republicans.
I don't like to see the same mindset within the dem party.

If I wanted to see people like Rahm in the inner-circle, I would
have supported HRC.



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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #155
161. So the existence of a base is dependant on divergences?!
1) That doesn't make sense. You can't have a unified base?
2) It's also wrong. There is plenty of fighting and divergence.

The only way it makes sense is if Rahm is saying that there is no popular support for DLC policies. This is obviously wrong, there are plenty of conservatives who like DLC policies.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #161
168. Yes, it makes very good sense.
You have to make choices to have a strong party and country.

Rahm will pick anyone who can win regardless of their beliefs.

Thus...our party will soon be just like the other one.

Wow, I am drawing some good ones today.
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #168
173. Haha.
Yes, I was trying to get someone else to realize that though.

I don't know why. I'm a masochist I suppose and enjoy fighting losing battles.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
163. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
kaygore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
164. RIGHT ON!!!! Emanuel scares the hell out of me.
The feedback that I am getting, even from McCain voters, reflect core Democratic Party values, surprisingly. I hope that Obama will see through Emanuel and will reign him in. If not, 2010 will be very interesting. We may actually see the rise of a real third party--one that is neither Republican or Republican-lite, oops, I mean Democratic!

We are mad and we won't take it any more!!!!!
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mirror wall Donating Member (282 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
166. Thank you.
That's a good start on the things that are wrong with Rahm. We should turn that into a meme. Let's send feedback to Obama and let him know that this is NOT what we thought we were going to be getting when we elected him.
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
167. I see, people having difficulty defining "the base of this Democratic Party...."?
Maybe that's because there isn't one.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #167
169. So we are just like the other party after all. Glad you admit it.
I have seen some doozies in this thread.

That one takes the cake.

Finally a conservative Dem poster admits we have gone republican because we have no base.

Do people really know how they sound when they are defending the indefensible?



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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #169
180. We are a political party that is less divisive than the other party and that's because......
....our differences are not as defined as the Republicans.

I am a moderate liberal and I have always been such. That's because with age comes maturity and the ability to see things as they are and not as I perceive them to be.

We won this election and elected an African-American to the presidency because Barack Obama and our party appealed to many factions in this country.

That appeal was because our party is, as someone said, "..... full of people with ideals and hopes and dreams of making our country better. "

"Full of people" is not a base. That is the whole thing.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
170. He's Actually Right. We Don't Have Close To Having A Solid Identifiable Base Like The Republicans.
We don't have anything close to a truly organized base, and in the context in which he was speaking he was actually 100% correct.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #170
172. Yes, he's always right....and he's large and in charge now.
And we just added 5 more anti-choice Dems to Congress now.

Pretty soon we won't even need the Republicans because we will be just like them.

Yeh, I knew all along Rahm was our hero.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #172
174. We Didn't Add 5 More Anti-Choice Dems To Congress. Learn Your Facts.
Furthermore, in the context he was speaking he's absolutely right. Your narrow mind as it relates to the topic doesn't change that.

He'll also make one hell of a chief of staff, and Obama made an incredible first big decision there.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #174
175. Yes, we did. People matter issues matter, but not to the Dems now.
http://www.democratsforlife.org/

Welcome New Pro-Life Democrats!

In a tight race, Bobby Bright (AL-02, open seat) DFLA Priority Candidate has won, keeping the seat pro-life, but switching parties.

With a solid win, Parker Griffith (AL-05, open seat) (DFLA endorsed) took over for a mixed abortion Dem.

In a close race, Steve Driehaus (OH-01) DFLA Priority Candidate has won, keeping the seat pro-life, but switching parties.

In in a nice victory, Kathy Dahlkemper (PA-03) DFLA Priority Candidate won, keeping the seat pro-life, but switching parties.

Another Ohio pickup was John Boccieri (OH-16). The open seat turn the Red district Blue.

More here:

"A record 31 Democratic Party pro-life candidates were elected to Congress.

According to Democrats for Life of America, five new Democratic pro-lifers were elected, joining 26 pro-life incumbents who were re-elected.

“This will be only the second time in 30 years that the number of pro-life Democrats increases instead of decreases,” Kristen Day, director of Democrats for Life of America, told Lifenews.com. “The first time we made gains was in 2006 due to the work of pro-life Democrats all over this country advocating on behalf of the pro-life cause.”

The first task confronting Congressional pro-lifers from both parties in the next Congress? Forging bipartisan alliances across the aisles of the Senate and the House of Representatives to prevent passage of the abortion lobby’s Freedom of Choice (FOCA) legislation."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4421245



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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #175
176. All Previous Pro-Life Seats. No Harm Done Whatsoever. No Net Gain.
You are deceitful in your application of the victories, as if the balance tipped a little because of it.

Furthermore, Rahm is not responsible for them.

Sticking to your context of the OP, Rahm is still 100% correct in the statements he made. After all, that is what this is all about, no?

He spoke the truth, and he will also make an amazing chief of staff. Get over it.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #176
177. Did you notice they switched from R to D?
Amazing. I don't think you read all of it.

Yes, I am sure he will be amazing. I will get over it.

We have no base, we have no party standards or beliefs.

By golly gumbo...you have convinced me.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #177
178. No Net Gain. Period.
And he will be great, despite your ridiculous snark.

And unless you can identify a solid and identifiable base like the republicans have, rather than this ridiculously absurd concept of "ummmm uhhhh, duhhhh, our base is good people! Yeah! If you're a good person, you're our base!!!!!!111", then your point is dead in the water.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #178
179. I just agreed. You have convinced me. There is no base.
There is nothing our party stands for, nothing. No platform, no ideology...nothing,

Gee, Rahm was right I was wrong...and the assholes now control the gate and this forum.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #179
190. Your Sarcasm Cannot Hide Your Lack Of Argument. Your Point Is Dead In The Water.
You are stubbornly trying to make a point yet have no substance to back it up with. Even in the absence of substance, you continue to act as if you have had some somehow. But you don't.

A party standing for something does not equal a 'base', especially in the context in which Rahm had been speaking. It is highly absurd to try and make a claim that stating we have no readily identifiable and firm base, that it means our party has no platform. It is quite asinine, in fact.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #190
191. I posted Rahm's own words. You are making convoluted arguments
to distort.

I used his own f***ing words. That's his favorite word, anyway.

He said those words.

What I posted is correct, but what you said is correct. We have no party base anymore because people like you and Rahm say there is none.

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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #191
196. You Fail.
It isn't his words that are at issue. It's the point you're trying to make about them. Fact is, your point is severely flawed.

And we have no real and identifiable base because we're a big tent party that doesn't subscribe to lockstepping ideals like the GOP. Your completely ridiculous attack that it's my fault and Rahm's fault is completely indefensible and makes you look incredibly silly.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #196
197. No, you missed his point. He will run anyone to win....
no matter their beliefs.

That's not a good indicator for our party. Van Hollen has included grassroots candidates, Rahm just scoffed at them.

You are really getting out of control angry and you need to calm down.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #197
223. i.e. Tim Mahoney n/t
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #179
225. Don't talk to bots like this, fuck 'em.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
194. Keep your Friends close and your enemies even closer
I would rather have a snake like Rahm being overruled by O than having him mucking up things in the house
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #194
202. Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #202
224. I don't know about you but I like to keep my dog's outside guarding the entry
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
200. I'm assuming President Obama is fully aware of all these facts.
Edited on Sun Nov-09-08 05:13 PM by Dr Fate
It's a good thing President Obama isnt trying to make Rahm the head of the DNC...

I'm guessing Obama, as he sees it, is giving Rahm a position that suits the Office of The President best...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #200
201. I hear that might go to Harold Ford...
Just rumor right now, only hearsay with no link.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #201
203. They have floated that before & failed- I suppose it would depend on where Dean wants to go...
...If Dean wants to stay head of the DNC, I couldnt imagine a successful effort to oust him...
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
204. We did it. We got rid of the republicans. Now, we get rid of the DLC.
The Doc should be Chief-of-Staff, instead of Rahm "The Mole" Emanuel.
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
208. Mr. Obama has a base ...
that does not consist entirely of Democrats ... yet.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
209. K & R. Again. nt
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Redneck Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
210. Fuck you Rahm.
We have a base.

A put upon, beleaguered, and taken for granted base, but a base non-the-less. When a portion of that base jumped ship in 2000 (in large part because of "Democrats" like you) it didn't turn out so well now did it, assface.
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
215. note carefully, Rahm, the words of John Muir
'Come kindly to terms with your ass for it bears you'


i believe it applies here. Consider the many usages of 'bear'.
dp
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
216. He meant he and his DLC friends have no base. Just future corporate employers
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hardtoport Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
217. So I guess there's no chance we could allow Obama to be inaugurated before
we start complaining about how far right or left he is taking the country and the Democratic Party?

I'm no fan of Mr.Emmanuel's either. I love me some Howard Dean. But I can see the possibility of Obama making good use of both of them. I can only imagine how pissed off everyone is going to be when Obama appoints Republicans to his administration.

I say this as someone who is as far left as anyone here, and someone who vehemently disagrees with the DLC philosophy: Obama is not dissing the progressive part of the party by appointing Rahm Emmanual COS. Nor did he diss the DLC or all of womankind when he passed on Hillary for VP. I truly believe he is going to put people where he believes they can be the most effective.

It's not going to be easy, but we are going to have to get past the notion of Obama proving his loyalty to a particular part of the electorate. He said he will be a President to all the people. That means he's going to piss me off at times. But isn't that better than being pissed off every day of life by the ideologue who currently occupies the White House?
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
218. You're obsessing
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LatteLibertine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #218
221. Perhaps President Obama will be a centrist
and as a Senator he was liberal. Examine his voting record.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
222. His only criteria is who could win??!!!
Jesus, that sounds so cynical. If that's your only criteria, then it sounds like he doesn't stand for anything -- like you said. :(
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George II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
230. Less than a week after the election and.........
.....you're already bashing the Administration that hasn't even been sworn in yet?

"BASE" refers to a single large group of supporters with the samne narrow objectives. The Democratic party, if it's the same one that I've been a member of and worked for the last 30 years, does NOT have a "BASE" in that regard.

And you're bringing up the mid-term elections already too?

Totally ridiculous and WAY out of order only 6 days after one of the most exciting, PROGRESSIVE elections I've seen in my lifetime.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #230
234. Yes
I am. Because elections matter, People picked by a president matter. Issues matter.

Yes, I am. And yes, I will.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #234
235. and I will too. the only thing that will make Obama even remotely progressive is pressure from US
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George II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #234
239. In what way?
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MicaelS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #234
243. Obama is a much better man than I am
Because if I were him, and came over here and saw this kind of fertilizer my alleged "supporters" were writing about me, and not just in this thread, but the ones about seriously TSing the President-Elect of the United States because of the Gay Marriage issue I would write the entire DU off. Completely, utterly and permanently.

Either that or tell Emanuel to not just kick some folks to the curb, but then to throw them under the bus and then run it back and forth over them several times. Just to make the point.

But that won't happen because he is a much, much better man than I am.
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JJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
242. Doesn't he know?
All your base are belong to us!
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-12-08 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
256. When you ignore poor people and shove off the left, then maybe you shot yourself in the foot?
:shrug:
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