Obama = Reagan

[cali]

At least I fervently hope so. Reagan fundamentally changed the trajectory of the country for over 20 years. Even during the Clinton era, the accepted governing philosophy that held sway was Reagan's and the repuke party was widely credited with being the party of "ideas".

Obama got a truckload of shit for talking about how Reagan changed this country. I knew precisely what he was saying and applauded his perspicacity- and I got a fair amount of shit myself for doing so. But Obama has a plan to realign the country politically and culturally in much the same way Reagan did- by moving the center to the left.

I hope like hell he can do it. I'd take 25 years of that in a heartbeat.

[MH1]

1. Agreed.

As long as we are clear that we are talking about the ability to change the trajectory of the country (as you said), in a positive progressive direction, NOT institute policies like Reagan's. Which is what I understood also when Obama said it, but apparently a lot of people didn't understand it that way.

[shadowknows69]

2. Obama > Reagan

Because he's our Reagan.

[ecstatic]

57. Also, Reagan was a washed up,senile actor/con artist/racist

At least our guy actually knows a thing or two.

[Uben]

3. No thanks

I prefer a president with no ties to Reagan or his policies. We now know "trickle down" meant "piss on". Reagan did a few good things but overall, his domestic policy was disastrous. He dumped the mentally ill on the streets after kicking them out of treatment programs. I'd rather set the bar a little higher than Reaganism, and see Obama-ism become the gold standard for presidents!

[shadowknows69]

4. Well Obama wants to trickle up, so he's the Anti-Reagan.

[Justyce]

10. Thank you... Reagan, no thanks. Anti-Reagan sounds much better. nt

[cali]

6. this has zero, zip, nada, nothing to do with Reagan's policies. That should be as

obvious as the nose on your face.

Let me spell it out as simply as I can: Reagan realigned the country culturally and politically to the right. Obama, being a student of history, is keenly aware of this. He has stated his intention to move the country culturally and politically to the left in much the same way Reagan moved it to the right. He wants to fundamentally change the governing philosophy. He wants to shift the political center to the left as Reagan shifted it to the right. As Reagan brought in a generation of young people who remain conservative, Obama wants to bring in a a generation of young people who will remain liberal.

This is simple stuff. Liberals should be able to grasp it. If they can't they truly need to better educate themselves.

[Stinky The Clown]

16. Good lord. You're reacting as if you heard a dog whistle

The OP (who I don't know) said he saw Obama as like Reagan on one specific aspect - the ability to set the political tone for a quarter century or more.

What he did NOT say is that Obama will be dusting off Reagan's policies.

What he did NOT say is that Obama would be an asshole president who only cares about greed.

What he did NOT say is that Obama would be putting back in place Reaganomics.






What he DID imply is that Obama would move the country from Center-Right to Center-Left. At least. I'll take that any day.







I would be most anything that you and I agree about Reagan. I suspect you and I could agree that Reagan set the tone for a terribly long time. It wasn't a good tone or a tone that was good for the country.

I think the OP agrees with that, too.

[cali]

23. Absolutely right. And I detested Reagan then , and I do to this moment.

[mudesi]

5. I agree

Except this time, things are going to get better.

[cali]

7. We need our own cultural and political revolution that's even more

effective and potent than the Reagan Revolution.

The Obama Revolution.

[TwilightZone]

8. Perhaps more accurately, he's the anti-Reagan.

As you pointed out, he wants to do for the left what Reagan did for the right. Make them relevant again, build coalitions, shift the political center in the country in his direction, and solidify power for, perhaps, decades.

Works for me.

[cali]

9. or Obama = the left's Reagan

that probably does work better.

[TwilightZone]

12. Yep.

I think a lot of people are still in Reagan denial. As much as I hated him (hell, I still do), I'll certainly acknowledge that he was incredibly successful in yanking this country to the right and marginalizing our party for the better part of a decade. I have no problem with Obama doing exactly that for the left.

I think Obama will probably be successful in doing so. The funny thing is that he's gotten a serious jump-start on the process thanks to our sitting president.

[cali]

18. hell, the sunny, bromide soaked old bastard marginalized our party

for an entire generation.

[StreetKnowledge]

60. Not anymore, Monty......

:D

Welcome to America's future, it seems. And that's good.

[panader0]

11. I never liked Ronald Ray-gun

He was a poor actor and a poor president. Obama is 'way better, much more intelligent.

[cali]

14. I detested Reagan. I loathed Reagan. But the facts remain the facts

Reagan was a popular president who fundamentally shifted the governing paradigm and the trajectory of country for years. Obama has the capability of doing the same- IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION.

[Jack Rabbit]

41. Let's just say Obama is like Reagan . . .

. . . except that Obama has good ideas.

[G_j]

13. beyond the 'change' part

NO !!! :scared:

we still are suffering from Ray-gun's reign!

think completely irresponsible and destructive energy policies, piss down economics, hate speech against "liberals" etc..

[cali]

15. Please try reading the OP.

If you had done so, you'd understand what was clearly stated.

[G_j]

20. I did

just reiterating the point,
because the mere mentioning of his name, sends chills down my spine.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

17. Obama=Obama. The very thought of him being compared to Reagan in one equation

gets me physically ill. I detest Reagan and what he did to our country. Not just philosophically but that blackops flourished and our goverment became a tool for overthrowing other countries and got involved in the drug trade that helped to destroy our inner cities. People died.

I understand your point, that Obama will do for the Democratic party what Raygun did for the
Republican Party, but Obama will be uniquely himself.

[cali]

19. He compared HIMSELF to Reagan.

Of course, he'll be uniquely himself, but he has every intention of drawing from Reagan's bag of tricks to realign the country to the left as Reagan realigned it to the right.

Obama is a man who understands history and how to draw on it for the future.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

26. Comparing one to and a definitive equation are two different things. I believe you did that

to get attention to your OP.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/16/obama-compares-himself-to_n_81835.html

From Huffington Post

"I don't want to present myself as some sort of singular figure. I think part of what is different is the times. I do think that, for example, the 1980 election was different. I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. They felt like with all the excesses of the 60s and the 70s and government had grown and grown but there wasn't much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating. I think he tapped into what people were already feeling. Which is we want clarity, we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing."

[cali]

28. OK, I should have said Obama = OUR Reagan

I can accept that I phrased the title ineptly.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

38. Much better!

:thumbsup:

[dkofos]

21. Obama = SENILE OLD FART. No I don't think so.

HFSCOPB

[cali]

25. DUers can't read for comprehension- at least far too many of them can't

It's just flat pathetic.

[dkofos]

29. POIB

[mdmc]

22. the epitome of my nightmare

for the record - Obama has never been Kucinich. I could see a Kucinich realinment... I doubt Obama has any concern about moving the country to the left.

[cali]

24. then you need to consider informing yourself. Obama has flat out sasid

that he wants to realign the trajectory of the country as Reagan did, only in the opposite direction.

Sad that so many DUers are so uninformed.

[mdmc]

58. I understand that Obama has said these things

but this kind of nostalgia to me is unhelpful. Reagan sold up poor (unproductive), mean (callous) policies and was able to do so with a simple smile. It was a cult of personality. I don't want that for Obama.
I would want Obama to be the (articulate and powerful) voice of ideal policy. Policy being what is the best for the American people and the world. Policy that allows for the greatest good.

However Obama wants to go after his agenda is fine with me. He is the man and I trust in his plan. I just think of the Raygun talk as unproductive - but that is just me.

I'm optimistic and I think that we have a great political team leading us.

[cali]

59. this has nothing to do with nostalgla. it has everything to do with political history

something I'm fascinated by- though it's not my field. And I'm hopeful and optimistic too. It's a great feeling.

[Maine-ah]

27. Hey, Cali

I understand what you're saying. :hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. No way

Reagan was a dishonest and dishonorable man.

[cali]

42. Aaargh. Why oh why, do so many DUers have trouble with basic, basic

reading comprehension?

It's an everlasting mystery to me.

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. And why do DUers insist on comparing Obama to the 2nd most evil president in my lifetime?

Blows. My. Mind.

[cali]

51. He compared HIMSELF to Reagan

Blows my mind that some people don't understand WHY. I couldn't have explained it more simply or in clearer language. This is 5th grade stuff. You should be able to understand it. You hardly need college level courses in political science to get this stuff.

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. So in 5th grade on the day they taught respectful dialogue,

you were absent, right?

[THUNDER HANDS]

31. people will totally not get your point

which shows you that a lot of people on here aren't as smart as they think they are.

Reading comprehension is important, people.

[cali]

33. wow. is that ever true.

all of it. I feel like I've entered a confederacy of.... Well, you know the last word in that sequence.

I don't see how I could have spelled it out in a more obvious fashion. Oh, well.

[Berry Cool]

32. When Obama first said that stuff about Reagan, I wasn't sure what he meant

and I was afraid of what he meant too. But now I understand.

The problem is, the second you say the word "Reagan," a lot of Dem brains automatically shut off and shut down. It's like saying "Hitler": anything you say immediately after it is either not heard at all, or heard through a highly distorted filter.

But I get it. He is saying, and I don't think he's wrong, that he wants to have the same long-lasting influence that Reagan did, only he wants to use that influence for entirely different purposes than Reagan used it.

And I say: More power to him.

[Obamarama]

34. I couldn't disagree more....

Reagan's ideologies' "consume-by" fresh date expired a while ago. Last week, it finally got tossed out of the refrigerator. We'll be trying to get the rank smell out of the fridge for a long time to come.

I for one beleive that in 30 years Obama's imprint on government change will not be so stale and ineffective that we want to toss it into the trash bin. In 30 years, Obama's ideologies and political philosophies might not be considered as progressive as they are today (in other words, I hope we will continue to progress and build on Obama's work, and look back on it as something to revere, not revile), but I hope they will be looked back upon as the defining moment when we finally got back to government for and BY the people.

[cali]

37. Well, you aren't actually disagreeing with the point of my OP

though I agree that Obama's imprint on the country could potentially last a great deal longer than Obama's. That's the ONLY thing you disagreed with. Hardly a fundamental disagreement.

[Obamarama]

40. Oh...I understand, Cali...I wasn't really disagreeing with your post!

:-) :-) :-)

I understand exactly what you meant. I should have made it more clear in my post that I agree, but that I don't think Obama's route and trajectory will follow that of Reagans in terms of permanence of ideology.

[Berry Cool]

54. Oh, in THAT way, I expect he will be different.

But I have to give all due credit to Reagan's ideologies for having a much longer shelf life than some.

[1awake]

35. Very good point Cali,

I think Obama will be our Reagan.. but people here.. you know.. the one's who claim to be smart.. won't comprehend what your saying and will think you are dissing Obama some how.

Good Post though!

~1awake

[knitter4democracy]

36. It's morning again in America!

That's the only way they're similar, and I've been making sure to post that on Facebook to piss off my conservative friends as much as possible. :D

[cali]

39. LOL! I'll have to use that over xmas hols when I see my

ex-in-laws. nice people but they are repugs.

[knitter4democracy]

47. It feels so good to say, too.

Mostly because it's really true this time. :)

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

43. One can only hope. Reagan helped to dumb down this country opening the way for The Boy King.

Maybe Obama can help the country wise up and open the way for somebody with Kerry's or Gore's intellect but to the left of these 2.

[cali]

44. Obama is, I'm convinced, at least as intellectually gifted

as Gore or Kerry.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

46. Well that's not my point. He actually was elected. The whole "guy who I wouldn't wanna have

a beer with" never really stuck to him. They tried the elitist thing but it wasn't as successful as it was with the previous 2 nominees. I'm not saying there weren't people that kept saying he was some kind of detached professor but in the end people chose the thinker over the clown. What I'm saying is that I am hoping one day this dumb ass concept of this guy is a nerd or that guy thinks too much will become completely irrelevant. That way we can end up with somebody as intellectual as our last 3 nominees that is not constrained to govern from the so called middle.

[ruggerson]

45. Reagan was an ideologue

Obama is a pragmatist.

Where do you see the similarities?

[cali]

48. I think that was explicitly and clearly delineated in the OP and in my subsequent posts

on this thread. However, here you go:

Reagan changed the cultural and political landscape in the country for a generation. He created a block of youthful conservative voters who to this day vote republican. He used optimism and his considerable communication skills to directly get the American people to support his right wing agenda. There's more. I won't bother elaborating. Obama wants to change the cultural and political landscape for years to come by shifting the center to the left. He wants to create a block of youthful voters that with the dem party way into the future. He wants to communicate directly to the American people to martial them behind his legislative agenda.

And yes, you're quite right, Reagan was an ideologue. Obama is not. Also Reagan was not nearly as smart as Obama, not as well educated, not as reflective, not as complex, not as educated, etc.

[Tyler Generation]

50. Obama = Kennedy

[cali]

52. sure, in some ways, but Kennedy didn't really have enough time

to shift the political landscape in the way Reagan did. He did not, for example create a generation of "Kennedy voters".

[prayin4rain]

56. I think so too

We have been culturally stagnate as a country for 15-20 years and I think Obama will fast forward this country's evolutionary process. :)

[verges]

55. I agree. And I'll carry it further:

FDR=Reagan=Obama

Every 30-40 years there is a shift. I think Reagan was more the pinnacle of the shift begun in 1968. FDR and Obama both represent the beginnings of their respective shifts. 32-68-08.

[Greyhound]

61. Not really, Obama=Intellect & vision - Ragun=front-man. n/t