To those crying "racism" when discussing the minority vote and Prop 8:

[GreenFiles]

Please look at the big picture before you decide this is racism and start to freak out.

I've watched several programs featuring several very intelligent people, Bill Maher, the Sunday morning shows, news programs, local interviews in CA. Many of these people refer to the 70% African-American number and also mention latino voters.

This is not racist! It's simply factual. As Gov. Schwarzenegger put it, "it may be a cultural issue" - No one is saying "lets attack the blacks now!", it's more like we want to know what went wrong for the future. For example you can bet there will be some kind of outreach to the African-American community now.

It's not racism. It's frustration with Prop 8's passing and an honest discussion about why it happened.


p.s.- Can we get a Prop 8 Racists forum? Thx.

[Nikki Stone1]

1. Homophobia in any community is not a good thing

Good post.

[glowing]

2. What about the white extreme loons who were even able to get the initiative on the ballot in the

first place. Churches are used to divide people quite well.. All you have to do is tell them that God thinks its a sin.. and then it becomes a crusade. Similar to abortion issues. AND in reality similar to what they did back in the time of slavery.. somehow they made slavery a moral obligation to keep slavery in practice.

[Nikki Stone1]

5. We don't expect understanding from loons of any color. We did expect more from the AA community

considering they had been through so much oppression themselves. In retrospect, that may have been expecting too much and was probably unfair.

[EFerrari]

10. The case needed to be made more explicitly. The ad comparing

H8 to racial discrimination got good response in minority communities, iirc, but it was too late and too little. We should have had more like that one and for longer. :(

[glowing]

13. Do you have that little of understanding about the dynamics of race relations

among differing groups and among differing socio-economic groups? This country divides the peices.. the few scraps at the bottom are fought long and hard... Do you remeber the whole, "will latino's vote for Obama because he's black"... Also, tolerance is measured along educational and socioeconomic means. The more learn, the more tolerance you normally have... because you have less to fear and more opportunity... Instead of blaming one group and dividing, go and teach, go and learn yourself... Nothing is black and white. If an argument is framed as to include rather than divide, this world would have a chance for equality.

[msongs]

3. a discussion using facts rather than hyperbole is completely suitable...

If one group or another voted more overwhelmingly for YES on 8 than did other groups, saying so is neither racist nor religious bigotry. Failing to recognize and acknowledge that just about every group was more in favor of YES on 8 than against it is another story. A major shift in votes from any one subgroup could have made a difference, regardless who constituted that subgroup.

The logic used by YES on 8 supporters is the more important issue.

Msongs

[EFerrari]

9. Exactly. And the "bigger picture" is that H8 did worse by 10 points

than the last measure did and that's with the bigger turnout among black voters. That's the bigger picure. Gay marriage will win here. We just have to work harder and smarter.

[Starry Messenger]

4. I found a good article this morning.

http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/2008/11/blaming_black_v.html

It's kind of long and I don't think the headline really represents what the full article goes into. Maybe People who see this thread will appreciate it though.

From the link:

"The Right's Big Investments Pay Big Dividends

The Religious Right has invested in systematic outreach to the most conservative elements of the Black Church, creating and promoting national spokespeople like Bishop Harry Jackson, and spreading the big lie that gays are out to destroy religious freedom and prevent pastors from preaching about homosexuality from the pulpit.

In addition, Religious Right leaders have exploited the discomfort among many African Americans with white gays who seem more ready to embrace the language and symbols of the civil rights movement than to be strong allies in the continuing battle for equal opportunity. At a series of Religious Right events, demagogic African American pastors have accused the gay rights movement of "hijacking" and "raping" the civil rights movement.

The effort to stir anti-gay emotions among African Americans by suggesting that gays are trying to "hijack" the civil rights movement is not new. During a Cincinnati referendum in 1993, anti-gay groups produced a videotape targeted to African American audiences; the tape featured Trent Lott, Ed Meese and other right-wing luminaries warning that protecting the civil rights of lesbians and gay men would come at the expense of civil rights gains made by the African American community. It was an astonishing act of hypocrisy for Lott and Meese to show concern for those civil rights gains, given their career-long hostility to civil rights principles and enforcement, but the strategy worked that year. Eleven years later, however, African American religious leaders and voters helped pass an initiative striking the anti-gay provision from the city charter. (The story of that successful fairness campaign is told in an award-winning mini-documentary - A Blinding Flash of the Obvious - that is part of a Focus on Fairness toolkit produced by People For the American Way Foundation"

[IsItJustMe]

6. Tell you what, you can knock the black folks, and I will knock the white fundies. I am white so I

feel more comfortable in that role. I guess that is just the way I swing.

[JonQ]

12. You feel more comfortable attacking one group over another

for the same actions, because of one groups skin color? How is that fundamentally different than going after blacks for some action that you would ignore if perpetrated by whites?

Seems that actions should be all that count, and if the majority of black voters were for prop 8 I'd say represents a significant flaw in that groups thinking. I'd say the same if it were asians, latinos, lakers fans, buddhists, whatever arbitrary grouping statistic.

[IndianaJones]

7. people are crying racism because the truth hurts. nt.

[TankLV]

8. Yep! Pointing out a simple FACT is now "racism"...

sorry - it's doesn't wash that way...

a FACT is just that - a FACT...

the FACT that over 70% of AA voters are HOMOPHOBIC BIGOTS is not being "racist" - it's a FACT...

tough shit if some can't handle the TRUTH!!!

[EFerrari]

11. I don't object in the least to a fact based discussion

of how constituencies in CA voted and what can be done to reach out to those that didn't vote with us.

I object to the unbalanced, under sourced blame of one small constituency to the exclusion of all the other factors we should be attending to. I'm not "crying" or "freaking out" or unaware of the "bigger picture". The "bigger picture" is that until the courts settle this, we need better numbers in minority constitutencies.

[mondo joe]

14. Even if Prop 8 was blocked, the degree of anti-gay sentiment in the African American community would

still be troubling.

Prop 8 didn't create the problem - it exposed it.

[Change has come]

15. This poster also thinks bigots should be "punished"

by having GAY CHILDREN.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4418688#4419622