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Do you ever wonder what the dumb ass reasons are behind opposition to gay marriage?

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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:30 PM
Original message
Do you ever wonder what the dumb ass reasons are behind opposition to gay marriage?
Edited on Sun Nov-09-08 01:46 PM by MrScorpio
I do. Anti-gay bigots need "reasons" why they oppose gay marriage, sort of like a manifesto. And of course, any manifesto has to stand up to a logical examination for validation. Anyway, I found a site that lists 10 fucked up reasons why gay marriage is to be opposed.

Obviously, brought to you by the same people who gave us "Intelligent Design" and "Abstinence Only" contraception.

Don't read it, if this offends you.

http://www.tfp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1073

1. It Is Not Marriage
Calling something marriage does not make it marriage. Marriage has always been a covenant between a man and a woman which is by its nature ordered toward the procreation and education of children and the unity and wellbeing of the spouses...


If this logic is to be followed, then it means that sterile couples or couples who choose not to have children can't consider their unions "marriages" either. The ONLY reason to marry is to have kids. Also, it contends that there has to be a marriage in order for children to be conceived.

Does that mean that rape victims need to marry their rapists if the rape conceives a child?

This narrow definition of "marriage" invalidates every single male/female marriage outside of the definition.

The courts, however, would see this differently.

2. It Violates Natural Law
Marriage is not just any relationship between human beings. It is a relationship rooted in human nature and thus governed by natural law.

Natural law’s most elementary precept is that “good is to be done and pursued, and evil is to be avoided.” By his natural reason, man can perceive what is morally good or bad for him. Thus, he can know the end or purpose of each of his acts and how it is morally wrong to transform the means that help him accomplish an act into the act’s purpose....


So homosexuality, which has been around as long as heterosexuality is somehow "unnatural"?

If this is true, one would NEVER see any type of homosexual behavior in nature. Or these isn't a biological component at all to homosexuality.

But of course, it isn't true. Homosexuality is just as natural as heterosexuality. It's neither "good" or "evil", it's merely a fact.


3. It Always Denies a Child Either a Father or a Mother
It is in the child’s best interests that he be raised under the influence of his natural father and mother. This rule is confirmed by the evident difficulties faced by the many children who are orphans or are raised by a single parent, a relative, or a foster parent.

The unfortunate situation of these children will be the norm for all children of a same-sex “marriage.” A child of a same-sex “marriage” will always be deprived of either his natural mother or father. He will necessarily be raised by one party who has no blood relationship with him. He will always be deprived of either a mother or a father role model.

Same-sex “marriage” ignores a child’s best interests.


If George W. Bush sends a parent off to war and, in doing so, deprives a child of a that parent through his or her untimely death, how is this not the same?

What about divorce and separation?

What about accident, disease, suicide and murder?

Children born to unwed parents?

There are more deprivations of children of both a mother and a father from these reasons than there ever will be from the union of two same sex parents.

Of course, there's no mention of that, due to the high level of cognitive dissonance from the author.

4. It Validates and Promotes the Homosexual Lifestyle
In the name of the “family,” same-sex “marriage” serves to validate not only such unions but the whole homosexual lifestyle in all its bisexual and transgender variants.

Civil laws are structuring principles of man's life in society. As such, they play a very important and sometimes decisive role in influencing patterns of thought and behavior. They externally shape the life of society, but also profoundly modify everyone’s perception and evaluation of forms of behavior.

Legal recognition of same-sex “marriage” would necessarily obscure certain basic moral values, devalue traditional marriage, and weaken public morality.


This is just straight out bigotry and ignorance. As if LGBT folks just showed up after a weekend of binge drinking in 1968.

Right.

They've always been with us, sometimes in the bigots own families, and they aren't going anywhere.

5. It Turns a Moral Wrong into a Civil Right
Homosexual activists argue that same-sex “marriage” is a civil rights issue similar to the struggle for racial equality in the 1960s.

This is false.

First of all, sexual behavior and race are essentially different realities. A man and a woman wanting to marry may be different in their characteristics: one may be black, the other white; one rich, the other poor; or one tall, the other short. None of these differences are insurmountable obstacles to marriage. The two individuals are still man and woman, and thus the requirements of nature are respected.

Same-sex “marriage” opposes nature. Two individuals of the same sex, regardless of their race, wealth, stature, erudition or fame, will never be able to marry because of an insurmountable biological impossibility.

Secondly, inherited and unchangeable racial traits cannot be compared with non-genetic and changeable behavior. There is simply no analogy between the interracial marriage of a man and a woman and the “marriage” between two individuals of the same sex.


These are the same arguments that were used to opposed interracial marriage, because the opponents didn't even consider black people to be human beings. Just because they moved the words around doesn't make it any more valid.



6. It Does Not Create a Family but a Naturally Sterile Union

Traditional marriage is usually so fecund that those who would frustrate its end must do violence to nature to prevent the birth of children by using contraception. It naturally tends to create families.

On the contrary, same-sex “marriage” is intrinsically sterile. If the “spouses” want a child, they must circumvent nature by costly and artificial means or employ surrogates. The natural tendency of such a union is not to create families.
Therefore, we cannot call a same-sex union marriage and give it the benefits of true marriage.



A man without testicles who marries a woman without a uterus would also fit this category. Yet the previous declarations say that, because they are an opposite sex couple, it isn't.

The logic hole here is so big, you can drive a Mack truck through it.

7. It Defeats the State’s Purpose of Benefiting Marriage
One of the main reasons why the State bestows numerous benefits on marriage is that by its very nature and design, marriage provides the normal conditions for a stable, affectionate, and moral atmosphere that is beneficial to the upbringing of children—all fruit of the mutual affection of the parents. This aids in perpetuating the nation and strengthening society, an evident interest of the State.

Homosexual “marriage” does not provide such conditions. Its primary purpose, objectively speaking, is the personal gratification of two individuals whose union is sterile by nature. It is not entitled, therefore, to the protection the State extends to true marriage.


So gay couples aren't capable of loving and raising children, because they're gay? They can't be moral, because they're gay?

So does this mean that straight parents are incapable of abusing, hating and killing their own children because they're straight? Are they prevented from being immoral because they're straight?

And what about, sterile heterosexual couples? They can't be moral either?

There is no logic here.

8. It Imposes Its Acceptance on All Society
By legalizing same-sex “marriage,” the State becomes its official and active promoter. The State calls on public officials to officiate at the new civil ceremony, orders public schools to teach its acceptability to children, and punishes any state employee who expresses disapproval.

In the private sphere, objecting parents will see their children exposed more than ever to this new “morality,” businesses offering wedding services will be forced to provide them for same-sex unions, and rental property owners will have to agree to accept same-sex couples as tenants.

In every situation where marriage affects society, the State will expect Christians and all people of good will to betray their consciences by condoning, through silence or act, an attack on the natural order and Christian morality.


Yep, an in-your-face challenge to anti-gay bigotry. I'm down with that.

9. It Is the Cutting Edge of the Sexual Revolution
In the 1960s, society was pressured to accept all kinds of immoral sexual relationships between men and women. Today we are seeing a new sexual revolution where society is being asked to accept sodomy and same-sex “marriage.”

If homosexual “marriage” is universally accepted as the present step in sexual “freedom,” what logical arguments can be used to stop the next steps of incest, pedophilia, bestiality, and other forms of unnatural behavior? Indeed, radical elements of certain “avant garde” subcultures are already advocating such aberrations.

The railroading of same-sex “marriage” on the American people makes increasingly clear what homosexual activist Paul Varnell wrote in the Chicago Free Press:

The gay movement, whether we acknowledge it or not, is not a civil rights movement, not even a sexual liberation movement, but a moral revolution aimed at changing people's view of homosexuality.


Pssst. There were gays around LONG before the 1960's. I just thought I'd tell you that.


10. It Offends God
This is the most important reason. Whenever one violates the natural moral order established by God, one sins and offends God. Same-sex “marriage” does just this. Accordingly, anyone who professes to love God must be opposed to it.

Marriage is not the creature of any State. Rather, it was established by God in Paradise for our first parents, Adam and Eve. As we read in the Book of Genesis: “God created man in His image; in the Divine image he created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them, saying: ‘Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it.’” (Gen. 1:28-29)

The same was taught by Our Savior Jesus Christ: “From the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female. For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother; and shall cleave to his wife.” (Mark 10:6-7).

Genesis also teaches how God punished Sodom and Gomorrah for the sin of homosexuality: “The Lord rained down sulphurous fire upon Sodom and Gomorrah. He overthrew those cities and the whole Plain, together with the inhabitants of the cities and the produce of the soil.” (Gen. 19:24-25)


Well, that's your God.

My God loves everybody, unconditionally. He doesn't think we should cherry pick scripture in order to justify bigotry.

Oh yes, just in case no one mentioned this, the Constitution is the law of the land, no the Bible or any other religious text.

Marriage is a CIVIL right, not a religious covenant.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. Right, people decide what is and isn't marriage ALL of the time; it's called Divorce.
So, why suddenly is marriage so sacred?
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. They don't even mention divorce... NOT EVEN ONCE
Shows the stupidity of their whole argument
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Yeah, apprently people CAN decide when they aren't married, but CAN'T decide when
Edited on Sun Nov-09-08 02:32 PM by patrice
they ARE married, ergo, those supporting things like prop8 are either crazy or they are LIARS. I'm going to opt for :crazy: LIARS :crazy:
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:45 PM
Original message
Marriage sucks, as anybody who's been married will tell you
I have no idea why it continues to be gussied up with hearts and flowers and the blessings of the spook in the sky. All married people go through periods when they don't like each other very much and periods when they fantasize about pillows over the face at 3 AM.

At its heart, it's the promotion of an unrelated person to first degree relative status. There's a whole body of law governing that relationship, and the laws governing any offspring from that relationship, however they are conceived (remember, straights adopt, too), are basically property laws.

The property law, even that concerning the disposition of children, can be accomplished via contract. However, marriage confers the human rights associated with first degree relative status, like visitation in a hospital when the blood relatives object and claiming a body after death, just for examples.

That's why, as rotten as the institution is sometimes, it needs to be opened to all consenting adults. The equal treatment amendment guarantees it and it's about time for states to awaken to that fact.
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judy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. Great post, Warpy!
Very well put...:)
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
13. So, everything about marriage can be achieved by contract anyway?
That would be everything except married Tax Deduction status, right?

So what we're fighting over is what something is called? For example, if a church wants to Marry GLBTs, they won't be allowed to? But if those same persons engage in appropriate contracts they CAN be "married" in every way, except name only?

Don't Singles have a tax disadvantage? Does denying the married tax advantage to some people amount to discrimination?

I know, tooooooo many questions; I have not even begun to understand this issue yet. Answer any, none, or all, as you see fit of course.

:hi:
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Read the post again
Clearly some things can't be, and I spelled them out.
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judy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks for posting all these reasons, that I didn't know about
But reading them all, what I see here, is it's all about sex. All those reasons are really bogus and all have an underlying message that homosexual sex is dirty (and sooooo tempting!).
As it is now, so it was I'm sure 3000 years ago or whenever Leviticus or other Biblical pronouncements were written.
It's funny how no one ever mention, that Jesus the Christ (who gave his name to the Christian set of religions, BTW) did not care a hoot about what people did or didn't do in the privacy of their own terra cotta bedrooms...

Oh, what a sad pathetic thing puritanism is!!
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. If marriage is so great, why didn't he marry and have kids himself?
I guess leading by example wasn't a big deal
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. And the corollary....
...if homosexuality is such a MEGA sin, why are there only 11 Commandments?

:shrug:

BTW: Assuming there was a Jesus, maybe he did not marry and have kids cuz he was gay?

:shrug:
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teenagebambam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. There's a lot of evidence...
....that he probably WAS married. Kids, that's a little more dicey.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. He DID lead by example: One and only one commandment: Love.
Perhaps he felt that the way he, personally and individually, was called to fulfill that Commandment would have been interfered with if he had married, i.e. for him, marriage would have been a violation of the One NT Commandment to Love God and your Neighbor.
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juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. The gnostics
who are what is left of the early church before catholocism, believe that he did. That's where all the Davinci Code stuff comes from. It makes sense, given he was a rabbi and rabbis are encouraged to marry. The virgin stuff, virgin birth, virgin Christ etc came along later as the real Yeshua Ben Joseph was folded in with several gods, most notably Mithras and Sol Invictus, for mass consumption and social control in the Roman Empire.

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mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. The problem is this requires actual thought and the homophobes out there
Are incapable of independent thought, when they encounter a new problem that isn't covered by what they learned, they will cling to those ideals and try to fix the new problem using what they learned. Think about it, they claim marriage is for procreating, yet by those standards those who can not have children shouldn't be allowed to marry.

Then they will claim, when 2 people "love" each other marriage is ok, but it has to fit my ideal of marriage, a man and woman. But again, what about the gold diggers out there that marry for wealth or social gain? Clearly they do not marry for love. So they then claim, well they can fall in love after marriage.

No matter what new learning or new ideals come out, they still refuse to educate themselves because then they will have to open themselves up to new and anything new is bad, unless a TV ad that tells them that its new and impproved. The bottom line is you can't fix stupid when stupid is unwilling to fix itself. Think about how many there that are trying to "fix" gays and haven't gave a thought that maybe it isn't the gays that need fixed, its them that need fixed.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. They are like John Dean has been saying about Authoritarian Personality types. nt
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. ....
:puke:

Yeah, right....what a pile of horseshit, IMO!

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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. Yes, a great deal of circular "reasoning" based on
nothing much except preconceived notions about the iffy "morality" of homosexuality, that is offensive to infertile couples, older couples, unmarried couples, nonreligious couples, etc. as well as same-sex couples... not to mention any couple or any person who respects the separation of church and state.

As civil law goes, there is NO reason for the state to deny same-sex couples the right to marry. And the bar isn't whether they can show a reason to recognize their right to marry - it's whether the state can show a reason to *deny* them an intrinsic civil right recognized for other citizens.
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. and they said the same thing before in blocking equality -
ERA
Woman voting
Blacks voting
Black / White marriage
and anything where they fear their views will have to change
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
14. The fatal flaw of their argument
is that being gay is a choice of lifestyle. That is a scary thought to many and rightfully so. That means gays can convince those who are not gay to become gay.

The rest is just fluff.

Why not go to the core of their argument?

If you are not gay, you are not going to become gay. Therefore there is no "Gay Agenda".

There is only a small segment of society that wants to be left alone to persue their version of life, liberty and happiness.
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Lil Missy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
16. I don't even need to read it. I already know why.
It's because of homophobia, (which really means they are not secure in their own sexuality), and some stupid idea that gay is contagious.

And also because gays are only in it for the sex act, and constantly. And god forbid, that can only lead to pedophilia and bestiality. :eyes:

Jeezus Christ, I even had one freeper gal ask me once how exactly do you and your partner "do it"? She insisted it was not possible. I told her we had jobs and lives to live, animals to care for, meals to cook, errands to run, people to meet, places to go, etc. And as far as what happens occasionally behind closed doors, she should just use her imagination.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Odd how they are ALWAYS wanting to talk about or refer to HOW "it" is done!! nt
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Lil Missy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. No kidding.
I would never ask a straight person or couple how they "do it". That's just creepy, and rude.

So btw, who are the real perverts here?
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
19. I don't wonder at all.
All the "reasons" listed above are mere window dressing for the real reason:

They're squicked out by the idea of two men doing it.

Note I didn't say two women. Just two men. But their prejudice blankets itself to cover women, too.

That's the whole shooting match, in a nutshell. Any other "explanation" they give you, no matter how lofty or dressed up with religious frills, is a lie. Bank on it.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Nail, meet hammer. nt
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nickgutierrez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
20. So, in other words...
...gay marriage is wrong for two basic reasons:

1. It's wrong because they can't make the babies, and

2. It's wrong because it's wrong.

:eyes:

Ugh, these people.
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EmeraldCityGrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
23. Prop 8 was not a faith issue, but about power, money, and influence

The LDS church is a revenue generating machine that makes up slightly more than 2% of the population
according to the most recent data available. The GLBT community is a considerably larger
minority with a great many high functioning, successful members of society often supporting
opposing political agendas.



Prop 8 was an opportunity for a smaller moneyed minority to gain political, economic and
political leverage over another minority. The results will force the GLBT community to funnel
energy and resources into fighting to change the results.

That's my take on this issue. This was a strategic move on the part of the LDS church and those
of us that consider ourselves Progressives would be wise to see it for what it is.
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
26. Actually, that's not 10 reasons - it's one reason repeated in different ways
"Marriage is for having children."

Where's that put my marriage? I married at 47, ten years after any possibility of having more kids was removed. So is my marriage unnatural, sterile, only good for my personal gratification? And so what if it is?

I hate these people with a passion that has no bounds. :grr:
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
27. #3
Edited on Sun Nov-09-08 04:42 PM by intheflow
:puke: There are more things wrong with this than what you cite.

3. It Always Denies a Child Either a Father or a Mother
It is in the child’s best interests that he be raised under the influence of his natural father and mother. This rule is confirmed by the evident difficulties faced by the many children who are orphans or are raised by a single parent, a relative, or a foster parent.

The unfortunate situation of these children will be the norm for all children of a same-sex “marriage.” A child of a same-sex “marriage” will always be deprived of either his natural mother or father. He will necessarily be raised by one party who has no blood relationship with him. He will always be deprived of either a mother or a father role model.

Same-sex “marriage” ignores a child’s best interests.



1) "A child of a same-sex “marriage” will always be deprived of either his natural mother or father."

WRONG! I know many gay couples who have natural children, since many people come to realize they're gay (or bi) later in life, after they've been married or in straight relationships that have resulted in a child. Most of those kids still have contact with both biological parents, certainly at the same rate as the divorced-and-remaining-hetero couples' rate of duel biological parent involvement.


2) "He will necessarily be raised by one party who has no blood relationship with him."

WRONG! If this is the definition of parenting, I guess we ought to cancel all adoptions, foster home placements, and second marriages for heterosexuals. Obviously any child will be tainted if exposed to living with someone outside their pure bloodline. (But perhaps these conservatives are inbred so as to not pollute their own bloodlines.:eyes:)


3) "He will always be deprived of either a mother or a father role model."

WRONG! This statement assumes that gay couples live in some kind of "gay bubble" where their children are never exposed to straight role models. Of course since these bigots probably shun their own family members who are gay, they are completely devoid of conceptualizing that many families still love and embrace their gay relatives, and so children of gay parents are exposed to "traditional" families, most of which have at least member who is either a man or a woman. Certainly that person could also be a reliable influence on the child's development.


Of course the whole rest of those points are pure crap, and you do an excellent job debunking them. But the other cognitive dissonances of #3 that you didn't mention really jumped out at me.




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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I know that I could have spent a lot more time on that one
There are so many reasons why it's so wrong.

I felt that just high-lighting a few key points was just a clue that the whole argument was totally fucked
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
29. Do you want to know the real reason?
Edited on Sun Nov-09-08 05:04 PM by nichomachus
Christianity needs an "other" or it doesn't make any sense. After all, how can you "save" someone if there's nothing to save them from.

So, early on, they invented the devil. He didn't always exist in his present form. That allowed them to scare people and whip them into shape with threats that the devil would get them. The name "Satan" means "the other."

As time went on, the devil morphed from a fallen angel to a strange creature with hooves and horns -- oddly enough just at the time when the churches felt threatened by the nature religions they were trying to stamp out.

Then, the devil got kind of domesticated, especially when he started appearing on cans of lunch meat.

Fortunately, along about that time, they had Communism -- "godless communism," to be exact -- which took the place of the devil for a half century.

Then, when Communism fell, they were stuck. For a while, they tried "secular humanism," but that really didn't sell. They screamed about it a lot, but it didn't have the fear factor necessary. It just wasn't scaring enough people.

Then, they decided on gays and lesbians. This was perfect for them for several reasons. First, it scared them, because sexual freedom threatens the stranglehold religious leaders have on their flock. After allo, if you can tell people who to fuck and how and when, you're in control.

Also, it tapped into the fear and misunderstanding of many of their flock. A lot of them really don't understand homosexuality and, being Americans are pretty juvenile when it comes to any sexual matters at all. Also, a lot of Christians are either closeted gays or have "urges" that scare them and they seek some avenue for expiation. Beating up on gays, they think, will make their own urges go away.

So, gays are now filling the necessary role once filled by the fallen angels, then the devil, the devil turned into a perverted Pan, and then Communism.

It's all bullshit because of the twisted nature of Constantinian Christianity.
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windoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Bingo! Fundamentalists need an enemy.
This time around it is gay people. Used to be the witches, women, other religions, races and devils. They need an enemy in order to further their End Times fear driven sickness.

The Armageddon (dominionist) Agenda must be stopped, these people are seriously addicted to hate and fear, and don't mind destroying nature too.

Stay safe everyone.
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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
30. I could be dead wrong, but I think these "excuses" don't amount to a hill of beans
They are a smokescreen for pure and simple cruelty. There are people who irrationally form delusive, hateful feelings towards "The others," who they have never met, don't think of as human beings. They just want to harm these people spiritually, emotionally, civilly, in any way possible, and they will make it an obsession if necessary. It's almost as if they require a scapegoat.

My theory is that the irrational hate comes first, and the excuses to justify that hatred are assembled almost as an afterthought.

This must change.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. And that's what I'm saying. And the irrational hate comes from...
their revulsion and disgust at the thought of two men having sex with each other.

That's it and that's all.

All this stuff about Leviticus and being able to have children and all that...it's bullshit. They just don't want a guy to put him *cough cough* in another guy's *ahem* *ahem*. Because it grosses them out.

They try to dress it up with all these religious and intellectual excuses, because if they had to admit the truth, it wouldn't sound impressive enough.
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
32. The history of marriage: an ownership contract.
The religious nuts can try and make it "sacred" all they want, but marriage originated outside of religion. Women were considered property, and marriage was a legal contract stating that the woman no longer belonged to her father, but to her husband.

It was slavery. Period.
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mudesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
33. RELIGION RELIGION RELIGION RELIGION
It can't be stressed enough. Religion brainwashes people.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
35. Not recently
God says marriage is betwen a man and a woman.

  • People are afraid to go against Gods will
  • People are jealous that other people carelessly and freely go against God's will without punishment
  • People feel that it is a sin. And if you are not fighting against sin, you're helping commit it, which strengthens Satan and weakens God.
  • People don't want to encourage sin
  • People don't want to legitimize sin
  • People are controlling jackasses
  • People find homosexual sex so gross they irrationally and hatefully last out against it any chance they get
  • People are afraid of their own sexuality or the sexuality of their relatives and don't want to give them the option of discovery
  • People just want a club to beat other people with
  • People want a wedge issue to whip


This occured to me years ago and I think it still holds true.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
36. there's only one reason bigots want to ban marriage for homosexuals:
it's something mean they can do to people they hate.

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