Prop. 8 protest at Mormon Temple in Oakland today. (dial-up warning)

[Starry Messenger]

News link:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/09/BAM51419AN.DTL

I was there from 12:30 to 2:00 and it was more than 300 people out there. News article is high.























Sorry for so many. It was hard to pick just a few. People had funny signs.

[SoCalNative]

1. Now really

One of the organizers of the Oakland protest, Ted DeBenedictis, said his groups alerted the church about the rally, which was not held during religious services out of respect.

The Mormons showed no respect for the gay citizens of California, why should the gay citizens of California show any for them?

[Starry Messenger]

11. I was curious about that myself.

Have they done that for all the other temple protests in CA this weekend? Maybe the point was to get media attention. There were 3 or 4 news vans there for a long time.

[lelgt60]

28. Because they're nicer people. n/t

[tnlefty]

2. Beautiful!!!

Thanks for posting these.

[Starry Messenger]

12. My pleasure!

It was a gorgeous day with gorgeous people.



Nice view of San Francisco past downtown Oakland and the Bay here.

[Faygo Kid]

3. Excellent. The Repukes think this is the wedge issue they will ride to victory.

With the help of the Mormons.

Won't work, for either of them.

Pull the LDS tax-exempt status.

[Not Me]

4. Precious, thanks for sharing.

Hugs.

[flvegan]

5. Note the proper spelling on the signs.

Much unlike our rivals, eh?

Great pics, thanks for posting them!

[Starry Messenger]

8. I noticed that too!

Tons of smarts in the crowd. People were driving past a lot in decorated cars. It was fun!

[roody]

42. except for using prosecute instead of persecute---eom

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. Brilliant signs! Nice turnout too

[Starry Messenger]

13. Yeah, it was pretty cool!

I didn't get pictures but there were a bunch of people up the hill a bit more on the freeway overpass waving signs that got a lot of honks from down below.

[Coexist]

20. the signs were damn creative.

[Starry Messenger]

7. The God Squad:

As it says in the news article in the OP services were canceled today for the protest. Lame. But there were still these kind of mafioso looking guys observing and taking pictures and video of the protest.







There were about 30 cops there. They were nice but it seemed a little top heavy for an equal rights protest. They were going to close off the street where we all were. But then someone talked to them (I think I heard him say he was on the SF board of supes but don't quote me on that) and then talked to us with a bullhorn. They just wanted us to stay off the street and on the sidewalk.

[BrklynLiberal]

9. Great pics!! Looks like a very well attended protest...Good

:thumbsup:

[Solly Mack]

10. K&R

[ColbertWatcher]

14. Steal my signature! k+r, n/t

[jonnyblitz]

15. "Gay Mormons for Equality" (second to the last pic)

no comment. :crazy:

[Starry Messenger]

16. It's hard to see but there is a web address on the poster:

http://www.exmormon.org/

The Mormon recovery site. I'm guessing the young man is no longer in the church.

[jonnyblitz]

17. we had a young gay mormon guy from texas who used to post

here. His screenname escapes me at the moment but Sniffa probably remembers it. I forget if we used to ask him WTF about his gay mormonism but I do remember him getting defensive if somebody made fun of the church. He was tombstoned around the 2004 election after a bit of crazy drama. I wonder if one can be openly gay and still be active or if he considered himself still a mormon tho estranged from the church or excommunicated or whatever they call it. :shrug: we were friends and i could have asked him these questions but I didn't. :shrug:

[Starry Messenger]

21. I assumed not but just found this:

http://www.affirmation.org/about/gay_and_mormon.shtml

[elshiva]

25. Openly gay Mormons are not treated well at all by their church,

but who is to say that a person can't be a mormon and a GLBT person? One mormon pointed out that the specifically mormon scriptures, "The Book of Mormon" and "The Doctrines and Covenants" have nothing to say about homosexuality. Joseph Smith himself had little or nothing to say about homosexuality, either.

[Starry Messenger]

26. That's what I figured.

Maybe there is a kind of Reformed Branch that is more accepting? Googling "gay mormon" brings up some ghastly stories about victims of ex-gay scams.

[elshiva]

30. I think there is a Reformed Branch of Mormonism, which

actually accepts women and openly GBLT ministers. It's a small branch and I think it's in Missouri or some place, but yes, they broke off when the more conservative mormons went to Utah.

[jonnyblitz]

29. I put a book on hold in my library about Mormons. I am going

to do some research later and perhaps find out how they come about their anti-gay stance if Joseph Smith plus the other two books you mention have nothing to say on it. I am too spent tonight to do this.

[elshiva]

33. Thank you. It's been a while, but when I was giving out pro-gay

pamphlet in college, I read a excerpt by a mormon about homosexuality. Of course it was pro-gay, so he came out in favor for gay rights, but he did point out that fact about mormon scripture. Also, there are only a handful of Bible quotes about man on man sex, but they are vague and have a lot to do with male temple prostitution by foreign religions....

BTW: I'm an atheist now, but I was a religious studies major and part of a lesbian group in college. I'm still pro-gay rights and now am a bisexual.

[lelgt60]

40. I think you will find it quite fascinating...

One of the most interesting things about Mormons (and, I suppose Scientologists), is that because the religion was founded in 1823 or so, extensive, accurate writings by the founders and other observers exist. This just isn't available to such an extent to those studying Christianity or Islam, for instance. In addition, it's in English, which makes it far easier for me than Greek, Hebrew, or Arabic.

Basically a story about a group of Jews who, under Gods direction, left Jerusalem in 587bc or so, before the destruction of the Temple, and sailed to the New World (somewhere around Panama). They recorded their history from that point in a book called the Book of Mormon, named after the last scribe who wrote in it. Essentially, these people became the American Indians! (or part of them). Jesus visited them after being crucified. This book was buried in what is now upstate New York, and dug up by Joseph Smith in 1823 or so.

Good reading!

[Starry Messenger]

41. I visited the exhibit at the Temple in SLC when I was 12.

The religion has a unique appeal for an American because it is tied into the mythology of this country. I could see how people could be easily converted. I was highly impressed as a young Catholic that Jesus had been to our shores. I imagine that if they'd had more time to work on me I could have converted. The whole thing about becoming the god of your own planet sounds kind of fun too. Too bad their social beliefs are so toxic. Plus I'm atheist now so the whole thing is academic. I do enjoy reading about them though. Scientology too.

[jonnyblitz]

31. also , THANKS for attending this. I appreciate THAT plus

the pictures you took the time to post AND the link. :hi:

[Starry Messenger]

35. I'm blushing here.

I'm looking for more news stories. The big story being flogged locally is that a highway on-ramp was closed briefly because of the protest. :eyes:

I did find a new website though:

http://stop8.org/

Lots of good links gathered all in one place!

[lelgt60]

32. Mormons are not generally excommunicated for "sins"...

But for speaking out publicly against church leaders or official church teachings - they are very sensitive to this.

I know a couple of former Mormons who are gay. They told me the church never threatened them. Both of them had this sad look when discussing it. Like something they supported and believed in had turned on them.

[Starry Messenger]

38. Whoops.

Someone got a better picture of him:

http://sfist.com/2008/11/09/scenes_from_oakland_protest_at_morm.php

[AntiFascist]

18. K&R

:yourock:

[Starry Messenger]

22. Aw shucks!

I just wanted to make sure Oakland's protest got a little attention too. We're not as glamorous as Sacramento or LA but we're scrappy!

[AntiFascist]

24. You folks (Oakland/Berkeley) are always lightyears ahead politically! n/t

[Neecy]

27. Scrappy for sure!

I miss Oaktown. These photos are just tremendous - I wish I could have been there. Great work!

[Omaha Steve]

19. Wonderful

No apology needed.

K&R!

[Duncan Grant]

23. k&r!

Sorry I couldn't be there this time. It's great to see the photos!

Thanks for standing up for justice. :hi:

[Starry Messenger]

34. Any minute now I should have a little video clip up at Youtube.

I've never uploaded one there before. It seems to be trickling slowly thru the 'tubes.

This was my first protest ever! (I'd have been embarrassed *not* to go. I can see the Temple from my parking lot at home.) :hi: It was sheer joy!

[Starry Messenger]

36. And now in stereo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFpFgmWBtGM

I think that's it.

[AzNick]

37. The only way to hurt them is financially

We need to go after their tax-exempt status. That will hurt them more than signs, which are a good start.

[Starry Messenger]

39. We can do both.

http://lds501c3.wordpress.com/2008/10/29/h... /

How to File an IRS 501(c)(3) Complaint

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (also known as the “Mormon” or LDS Church) has gone too far in promoting the 2008 California Proposition 8, which would claims to amend the California state constitution to define marriage as one man and one woman in order to supersede a state supreme court opinion issued earlier this year.

Section 501(c)(3) of US Code Title 26, which governs tax-exempt organizations, reads (emphasis added):

(3) Corporations, and any community chest, fund, or foundation, organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for public safety, literary, or educational purposes, or to foster national or international amateur sports competition (but only if no part of its activities involve the provision of athletic facilities or equipment), or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals, no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual, no substantial part of the activities of which is carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation (except as otherwise provided in subsection (h)), and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office.

(The “otherwise provided” clause does not apply, as the LDS Church, being a church, is a disqualified entity as described in subsection (h).)



But the media attention to this episode is going to be toxic to them. "Religions" like this thrive on secrecy.

[mondo joe]

43. Every church of any denomination that supported Prop 8 should be bankrupted.

And tax exempt status is a good place to start.

[SeattleGirl]

44. Wow, great crowd and great signs.

Though I truly wish there were no need to protest. :-(