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There is NO MORE EXCUSE

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Andre II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 03:56 AM
Original message
There is NO MORE EXCUSE
How often did I read that impeaching or pushing for criminal prosecution for Bush et al would be no good idea as it would threaten the win of the election and we need to focus on November 4th.
Now, Obama won.
There are no more excuses.
We need to push for criminal prosecution of Bush et al.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 04:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. yes! n/t
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Winnipegosis Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 04:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. Obama
would never waste his time on this.

I suspect some members of Congress will make some news in this matter, but that's about all.
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MNReformer Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 04:18 AM
Response to Original message
3. I would prefer to take Naomi Klein's advice
Edited on Mon Nov-10-08 04:24 AM by MNReformer
and spend OUR political capital on getting the terms of these "bailouts" right...

http://www.opednews.com/articles/3/Naomi-Klein-Interivew-with-by-Rob-Kall-081026-271.html

An excerpt:

Klein: Yeah. Well, I mean, this is why I say it’s not about how you vote for or who you trust. It’s about being a political adult and realizing that political change isn’t handed down from above; it’s demanded from below. And if we don’t, you know, what I’ve been saying to people is, look, you know, Obama’s a centrist. He’s never lied about this. This is who he is through and through. He will find the center of wherever that debate is. But, the good part about Obama is that if the center moves, he’ll move with it, and we’ve seen that during this economic crisis. Right? Where the center has moved, the base has gotten more and more radical, more and more angry at Wall Street, and Obama has reflected that anger back to people. Right? So, what I’ve been saying to people is, if you don’t like where Obama is, move the center. Move the center. Go out there and say some really radical things and fight for them and organize.

Move the center, because that’s how America got The New Deal. Not because FDR handed it down from above, but because people were organizing in trade unions, in neighborhood groups. They were preventing their neighbors from being evicted from their homes by moving their furniture back into their homes. That’s how things like rent control were won. That’s why Fannie Mae was created in the first place-to prevent foreclosures.

That’s how Social Security was won. It was in that interplay between a very, very mobilized, radicalized base and a politician who was willing to listen. And, but more importantly, FDR was able to sell The New Deal as a compromise. Because people were so radical that he was able to say to the elite, look, we’re on the verge of revolution, we’re on the verge of Socialism. We need to give them something.

And The New Deal, as we know, wasn’t just one policy; they had to deepen it and sweeten the pot, more and more because people were so radical. That’s the kind of spirit that we need to return to. So it isn’t about bashing Obama, or, you know, complaining about Obama, you know, or distrusting Obama. It’s about seeing that credible threat from both below.

But, you know, I think that there’s a feeling, there’s often a feeling, on the left in the United States where people are told that they’re a liability if they take too radical a position and there’s always this idea that you just sort of support the candidate until after the election, but then after the election the candidate’s going to be under a huge amount of attack from the right, so you have to support them against that.

So then there’s really never a moment of intellectual honesty. And I think this is, you know, I think this is a real test. I wish Move-On would use their incredible network to say, you know, “We don’t want Bob Rubin.” And really stand up for homeowners. And, you know, the networks are there, but there’s a real unwillingness to take these risks.


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Andre II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yes and no
Yes, cause I believe your point is important.
No cause I don't see why we have to choose what we want to go for.
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MNReformer Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I guess because I feel that the economy is more urgent
and right now there is a huge problem with the way the bailout was written--some sort of a legal loophole that as it turns out results in a "windfall" for the banks...Congress is deciding whether or not they can "do anything about it".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/09/treasury-made-controversi_n_142552.html?page=11&show_comment_id=17849720#comment_17849720
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
5. January...And Beyond...
Remember...any indictment handed out against this regime will end up in a pardon...not conviction...INDICTMENT. Many are holding their poweder until this regime is out of power so a real investigation can begin...one that can't be stifled by massive abuse of Exeuctive Privilidge and a corrupt Justice Department that will need a thorough cleaning. Yes, impeachment's a good idea...it always has been...but making it happen is another story.

As I've long said, Impeachment doesn't address the crimes of this regime...it's a punishment that only affects one person, it doesn't even address the low level crimes that went on...and in many ways, a high profile impeachment would give cover for the lower rats to hide and surface again down the road to create more havoc (a lesson from Watergate that wasn't learned).

There is a definite need to investigate...not what, but where to start. There are several investigations already going that have been stonewalled that will pick up speed in January and I suspect once President Obama takes office we'll learn about even more criminality...the stuff that wasn't so blatant it couldn't be supressed.

Congressman Conyers on several occasions has spoken on the issue of Defacto Impeachment as part of a major investigation...squeezing up to get the smoking guns that make a conviction not just possible but compelling. I strongly believe a Special Prosecutor will need to be empowered to handle a lot of this mess...taking it from political to the judicial/criminal realm where it belongs...and free of the politics and focused strictly on the law.

In the end, the crimes of the past 8 years are well beyond a political showtrial...these require an international review...such as one in the Haugue.

Yes, we need a criminal prosecution...that requires lawyers, not politicians.
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. of course there are excuses: we have the WH, Senate, House
but we don't have EIGHTY seats--so swallow any criticism, obey unquestioningly--and maybe in 2010 we'll give you more than a few tokens.
2010: sorry, we moved the goalposts again: we need 100% of both houses and a majority in the Russian Duman
(sarcasm)
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. Ahhhhh, Must Be So Nice To Live In Such A Neat And Tiny Little Bubble.
Must be so much more warm and fuzzy than cold reality the rest of us live in.
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