Obama should have stood up and supported gay marriage

[cali]

despite the enormous odds that that would have lost us the election. If that's what you believe would have been best, I can understand it, but it's not something I would have liked to have seen happen.

It is often said that politics is the art of the possible. In this year, vocalizing support for gay marriage would not have made gay marriage instantly acceptable to the majority and it would have resulted in a republican president.

I wish it were different. My heart aches for for gays and lesbians and the hurtful rejection of them as full human beings, particularly for those in CA, who had full equality in marriage in their grasp only to have it snatched away in such a truly ugly way.

I don't believe Obama is a bigot. My guess is that Obama and many other dems do believe in marriage for all, but recognize that you can't be elected president if that's your position.

I wish it had been different, but I'm still glad we elected Obama. One thing is certain: President McCain would be less supportive of the GLBT community than President Obama will be.

[Smarmie Doofus]

1. He could help right now by explicitly denouncing the *vote*.

I know he opposed the proposition before the fact, and that's fine, but speaking to the moral and ethical implications of the actual *outcome* would help lay the groundwork for undoing 8... either in the courts or in the next electoral go-round.

If he's going to be a transformational leader, this issue is a good place to start. Apparently a sizeable portion of his base has trouble connecting the dots. That's what leaders are for.

[Cattledog]

2. He won't do nor should he.

He needs to fix the economy, the war, healthcare, and education. If ya ain't got a job Gay marriage will not be at the top of your list. This is an issue for California to tackle.

[Smarmie Doofus]

7. Obama can only do one thing at a time?

>>>>>He won't do nor should he.

He needs to fix the economy, the war, healthcare, and education. If ya ain't got a job Gay marriage will not be at the top of your list.>>>>>>>

Who knew?





>>>>> This is an issue for California to tackle.>>>>


Apparently Obama himself doesn't agree... otherwise he wouldn't have opined on the issue ( pre-election) to begin with.

[Cattledog]

8. That' much more than one thing.

He stated flatly that he supported "Civil Unions" not Gay marriage. Californians are responsible.

[Smarmie Doofus]

10. We're talking about Proposition 8; not "gay marriage"; and Obama...

http://www.sacbee.com/111/story/1051404.html

explicitly denounced Propsition 8 as " divisive and discriminatory.


>>>"Californians are responsible.">>>

Californians are responsible for *what* exactly?

[Antennas]

9. Amen.

[democracy1st]

3. The most important thing Obama can do for Gays/Lesbians is

appoint liberals to the Supreme Court.

[cali]

4. Absolutely.

and support gay friendly legislation that comes out of the Congress.

[Kahuna]

11. Riiight. Think how further along gays/lesbians would be along if

Gore had picked the last two justices instead of bush.

[AntiFascist]

5. Cali I know you mean well...

but please don't help spread the meme that we've had "full equality in marriage snatched away", at least not yet. Prop 8 has gone into effect, by law, but the state supreme court has not yet ruled on whether it is valid. In case you hadn't noticed, 10s of thousands of gay marriage supporters are marching throughout the state in support of gay marriage rights in hopes of overturning Prop 8. Please don't jinx their chances of success.

[cali]

6. Thanks for pointing that out.

Here's to hoping that the CA SC does the right thing.

[stray cat]

12. Obama denounced Prop 8 specifically - a state issue

[KharmaTrain]

13. Time For A Lesson Learned...

No question, Proposition 8 was a tremendous blow on a night that many of us felt nothing but jubiliation. IMHO, this loss should be viewed as a knock not a end...a reason to rally for a future fight...and yes, there will be a future fight.

I followed Prop 8 as close as I could...and through August the polling showed NO passing and then the Mormon, Catholic and fundie money opened up and the NO forces were soon swamped and had to play from behind. The goal here is to come back in two years, re-introduce this proposal and then all of us work hard to overturn this mess. Blaming and arguing about what happened isn't going to change a thing...we saw that on the political front, and this is just the next big battle we need to join and work toward.

As others have said, it's a state issue. President Obama had his hands full trying to convince voters he wasn't a Muslim or terrorist or wasn't going to raise taxes or turn this country into a socialist hell...his focus was national, not state. He didn't campaign much, if at all, in California...so where could he have made a difference here?

Last week we saw a black man rise to the most powerful job in the world. No need to overstate how big this was...but also to remember how long this struggle was. Despite getting "equal right" in 1866, it wasn't until 1964 that there was some teeth to that right and even then it took another 40 years for this country to get passed a lot of the stigma to reach this point. The GLBT move for self-respect and equal rights has only "come of age" since the Stonewall rebellion and its taken a generation to overcome a lot of stereotypes and prejudices...but there's still a long way to go. But, as other, I see this heading in a positive direction...and a setback like this could and should be used not as a defeat but an opportunity. Educate, enlighten and win.

Cheers...

[AntiFascist]

22. The CA Marriage Ruling was a huge win for the gay and lesbian community...

even Prop 8 may likely not be strong enough to knock it down. Many of those who voted Yes on Prop 8 voted so because of fear stirred up about gay marriage being taught in schools, a completely separate issue from the question of civil rights. I don't think Prop 8 passed because a majority of people wanted to place bigotry into law. I do not see it as a "tremendous blow" I see it as a temporary strategic win on the part of the Religious Right, but one which could also backfire on them.

[Beanpole]

14. The government should not grant or deny marriages.

Marriage is a religious institution. The government should not be involved.

[Scout]

15. "The government should not be involved."

ok, so no tax breaks for marrieds, no adding your spouse to your insurance, and none of those other special privileges granted to marrieds.

That's what you meant by no government involvement, right?

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

16. His Winning The Election Was Far More Important In My Opinion.

Hopefully, we get to have both equality in CA AND Obama as President. Prop 8 ain't done yet...

[mulsh]

18. what if he really doesn't believe in gay marriage?

Has Obama ever said that he supports gay marriage? I have heard him support civil unions and I don't believe he's particularly homo-phobic but I have never found any statement from him indicating that he supports gay marriage.

I certainly support gay marriage and voted no on 8. I support Barak Obama but I don't expect him to support exactly the same issues as I do. We'll have to work a little harder and try to change his mind.

[IndianaJones]

21. he does not, based on his own religious traditions. nt

[IndianaJones]

19. I don't think we can expect him to violate his religious beliefs, misguided as they may be.

They are shared by much of the Democratic leadership.

[justiceischeap]

20. Somehow I can't help but think this ad really hurt No on Prop 8

[Duncan Grant]

23. This would not be appropriate for any other Democratic party constituency member -- except gays.

The endless equivocation is shameful.

edit: subject line

[lazyriver]

26. Seems to me that someone good at organizing letter writing

campaigns could do a lot of good getting a few tens of thousands of copies of that horrible ad printed up and mailed to Obama from as many members of the progressive community who support equal rights for all as possible. Perhaps a little note saying something like,

"Dear Mr. President, We were there to help you. We knocked on doors, made phone calls, donated money we really couldn't afford and helped get you elected. Your very own words were used against many of our brothers and sisters in this ad which helped to take human rights away from many people who believe(d) in you. Won't you please try to help those who have lost their right to love their partner as you love Michelle by publicly and formally speaking out against these atrocities? Please Mr. President, stand up for all as you have pledged you would".

What do you think?

[justiceischeap]

28. I like it! I would love to see that happen.

What organization do you think would be willing to take it on?

[lazyriver]

29. I don't know. If anyone has suggestions, I'd be pleased to forward

the idea to whichever organization(s)would be best suited to carry it out. Unfortunately, I'm not much of an organizer (seeing my desk would prove that point all too easily).

[HamdenRice]

24. It's difficult for many to think about strategy when principles are at stake

but we have to if we want to win.

It's something African Americans and our organizations have been used to doing for decades, if not centuries.

Yes, it's the art of the possible.

[yowzayowzayowza]

25. Concur. Ruthlessly pragmatic cuts both ways. n/t

[datasuspect]

27. any politician will do what is politically expedient according to whatever polling-driven info

they are subject to.

this is not an age of statesmen, it is the age of pitchmen and bankers. that goes for both political parties.

[rug]

30. It would not have cost him the election. Especially this year.

[cali]

31. sorry. the reality is, it absolutely would have. And prop 8 is strong evidence of that

[rug]

32. Sorry, your opinion does not establish reality.

My opinion is there were too many reasons to reject McCain that are not outweighed by a sentence supporting gay marriage.

[cali]

33. fair enough. and yours doesn't either. the difference is that I provided evidence

CA, FL, AR. You have nothing but opinion. big difference.

[rug]

34. Let me see, Iraq, depression, Katrina, Afghanistan vs. support for gay marriage.

You're right, it woul have been McCain in a landslide.

[cali]

35. yes, he would have won. Obama won by 6 points. He would have lost FL

for sure, OH, and several other states.

[acmavm]

36. Yep, if he would have backed gay marriage it would. I know a

number of people who voted for Obama that just shocked me. They sure as hell wouldn't have if he would have supported gay marriage.

I live in District 2 (Omaha/Lincoln) in Nebraska. WE got the first democratic electoral vote in over 40 years. We sure as hell wouldn't have if Obama had been a vocal proponent for gay marriage. And I'm sure (just like you're sure of yourself) that would have been the defeat of Obama in other 'red' parts of the country.

[nichomachus]

37. Obama should keep his mouth shut

I'm gay. On October 19th, I was married to my partner of 25 years in CA. And I'm pissed as hell at Prop 8.

Obama can do a hundred things to help us -- appoint people to the cabinet, appoint judges, appoint supreme court justices, put some decent people back in the agencies to help us and get rid of the fundie drones.

But, while I'd like to hear him come out in support of same-sex marriage, that alone doesn't help us and will just fire up those who are opposed to him. SO, he can stay under the radar on it, as far as I'm concerned, while doing everything to put in place people who can help.

He's too new to the job to have a bully pulpit and there are too many people out to get him. Let's not give them any more ammunition.

[Mike 03]

38. Beautiful Post. I was struggling over this the other day.

After reading "The Audacity of Hope," there's little question in my mind that he does support Gay Marriage. Your conclusion is the one I came to: He is fibbing about this issue to win the election.

I'm really torn, because to me, personally, it was vitally important to win this election.

I didn't mind that he lied at the time, but in retrospect, after seeing the intensity and severity of the pain this issue has caused the Gay Community, I feel very conflicted about his statement.

The most honest answer for me is simpy: I don't know. But I do know I could not stand another four years of what we've suffered over the last eight.

The good news is that if you believe in redemption, President Obama will have many years ahead to undo any hurt feelings or damage he has done to our wonderful gay/lesbian/transgender/bisexual friends. They certainly deserve better than they've gotten recently.

Even Arnold Schwarzzeneger (spelling, sorry) gets it.