After 10 mins she was dug up & nurses checked to see if she was alive. She was. So stoning continued

[Liberal_in_LA]

I know this story has been posted on DU several times but the ugly details need to be spread virally... people need to know how women and girls are treated in these countries.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/rape-victim-13-stoned-to-death-by-1000-men-in-stadium-14049717.html

Rape victim, 13, stoned to death by 1,000 men in stadium

'Don't kill me,' she screamed. Then they stoned her to death

By Daniel Howden
Monday, 10 November 2008

This was a death foretold. A Toyota pickup with a loudspeaker began an early-morning tour of the ruined neighbourhoods of Kismayo, a port in southern Somalia, announcing that there would be a killing. By 4pm a crowd of 1,000 people had gathered at the football stadium. A hole had been dug in the ground, and half an hour later a truck loaded with rocks arrived.

A group of fighters from the Al-Shabab militia who control the city appeared, firing warning shots into the air to disperse a crush of people trying to reach the stones.

A young girl was dragged into the stadium. She knew what was going to happen next, and witnesses saw her struggling and screaming.

"What do you want from me?" she asked. Then she shouted "I'm not going, I'm not going. Don't kill me."


But four men forced her into the hole and buried her up to her neck. Fifty men then set about stoning her to death. After 10 minutes she was dug up and two nurses checked to see if she was alive. She was. So they put her back in the ground and the stoning recommenced.


Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow's crime was to be raped and then report it. After being attacked by three men her family went to the Al-Shabab Islamist militia to report the crime. She was detained and accused of adultery. No effort was made to identify or arrest the rapists.


Despite reports that she was 23 years old, Aisha was actually 13. "She hadn't even reached the age to be married," her distraught father said.

[DS1]

1. Yep. That's how it's done. Buried neck deep with a sheet over your head

so the cowards don't have to look at you.

[tblue]

11. Bastards! We have to support the empowerment of women worldwide!!!

[roguevalley]

63. fuck them. fuck them to hell. I hope nobody defends this as some

sort of ethnic tradition.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Shameful and horrific.

Poor, poor baby! :cry:

[Liberal_in_LA]

4. beyond horrific!

[truebrit71]

3. Un-fucking-believable...

..The more I read about this story the more pissed off I get...

[Liberal_in_LA]

5. note the men trying to rush for the stones to join in the stoning party. ANIMALS

[Bryn]

94. I think Animals are better than those creeps

They are nothing, but souless scums

[femrap]

135. Animals are better than 99.9% of humans....

these sub-human males are blood-thirsty, insecure, evil fatherfuckers who deserve much worse than what they inflicted on that young woman.

[cali]

9. me too. and I'd like the people that engineered this and threw the rocks to suffer

hideously. I'm literally shaking with fury.

[tblue]

6. There are no words.

Times like this I just hate organized religion. Seems to me, on balance, it does much more harm than good.

[datasuspect]

13. the christian world was similar until they had this thing called the enlightenment

dunno, really

[tblue]

19. Oh yeah. I know.

Just as guilty. Just as wrong.

[RaleighNCDUer]

29. The Enlightenment. 1600's?

Wasn't that when they were burning witches all over Europe and the Americas?

[datasuspect]

38. if we trace the genesis of the enlightenment to 1637

with the release of "A Discourse on the Method of Rightly Conducting the Reason and Finding Truth in the Sciences" then yes, but this was in Europe. but it's safer to place the timeframe somewhere in the 18th century.

[pnwmom]

So? Nothing has prevented others from becoming "enlightened" in the meantime.

The fact that others in history have behaved miserably doesn't excuse this continuing evil.

[datasuspect]

41. who said anything about excuses?

the fundamentalist islamic world is mired in a middle ages mindset. that's a reason, not an excuse.

what can you expect?

[acmavm]

77. That murder has nothing to do with religion. It has everything to

do with mysoginy.

No one's god ever told anyone to behave like that.

[GrannyK]

84. Religion has little to do with God and

much to do with power and control.

[acmavm]

108. Organized religions do. It seems that once they 'progress' beyond cult

status, they've outlived thier use. Because then they become primarily interested in their (its?) own interests, its own prosperity.

That's 'organized' as in having become nothing more than a business.

There are people within these 'organized' religions who do believe the message we are our brother's keeper, love your neighbor, judge not lest ye be judgedk, etc. They don't approve the method of the way things are done. Are they bad? According to this place hell yeah!

[raccoon]

145. Yo, Granny, much of the time that's true, IME. nt

[WhollyHeretic]

90. Have you ever read any holy books?

[axollot]

111. So damn true, and most of the 'Christian' Old Testament has many of the same..

...stories in the Koran, and of course the Torah. (I love tossing that factoid at the Muslim hater's). However, despite having read the old testament, via the King James, stoning a CHILD who's been RAPED is *not* in there - the MEN would have been stoned. And I'm sure a dead animal offering somewhere thrown in for good measure......

Cheers
Sandy

[Midlodemocrat]

124. 'Christian' Old Testament is an oxymoron.

The New Testament is a new covenant from God to his people which culminates in the death of his only begotten son for our sins.

There is absolutely NOTHING Christian about the OT. It's simply the history leading up to the birth of Christ.

[axollot]

130. I realize that the books of the old testament all came from -

- the Torah, LONG before Christ and that the 'new' testament is only found in the Bible etc, etc so on and so forth.... The reason I added " around the word Christian was to try to separate the books of the from the Koran and The Torah the last of which has many, many more books than what was added to the King James which is what *I* had read cover to cover and used as a reference. *sigh* Obviously, I wasn't clear enough on the original post.

Cheers
Sandy

[apocalypsehow]

140. Tom Tomorrow's cool.

:thumbsup:

[northernsoul]

152. I disagree

The history of Abrahamic Monotheism is replete with alleged divine commands to murder people. Plenty of people's "God" has told them to commit such acts or worse, for several thousand years now. This needs to end.

[baby_mouse]

7. What's going on in these people's brains?

I just can't understand it. It's so farcically evil I've no idea how to react to it.

[Jakey]

81. Their brains...

are processing and acting upon the tenets of a perceived cultural mandate, written by misogynists and institutionalized by misogynists. What does one do about a culture of death?

[northernsoul]

153. Superstition, Religious Dogma, Fear, Hatred of Women

did I miss anything?

[liberalmuse]

8. The Toyota pick-up with the speaker...

that makes it seem all the more horrific. Before that, you could imagine that this atrocity occurred in the Middle Ages. Oh my god. I fucking hate religion. I can't even fathom this, really. A woman is raped and this is what she can expect for reporting it. Mother fuckers.

On edit: Replace 'woman' with CHILD.

[maxsolomon]

10. nice to know the islamists have their priorities straight.

is there a more fucked-up place on the planet than somalia?

[reggie the dog]

32. Burma?

Afganistan?

Congo?


Sudan?


There are lots of fucked up places where people are just killed for no reason. This story from Somalia is horrific but sadly there are many fucked up violent places on this planet.

[maxsolomon]

69. I'd exempt Burma

because Buddhism still functions there, despite the junta, and it is, frankly, a more advanced religion than Islam.

Somalia doesn't even have the pretense of the rule of law.

[Bryn]

96. I remember story about the Talibans stoning a mother of 6

just because her ankle showed! :cry:

[ogneopasno]

12. Disgusting. This is beyond religion. This is woman-hating, pure and simple.

That poor girl. I hope she was at least unconscious.

[liberalmuse]

14. Same, thing, really...

the patriarchal religions thrive by pushing women down.

[Moody]

106. I agree.

[datasuspect]

15. this is religion

christianity has toned itself down and channeled its woman hating into less violent expressions.

[roguevalley]

66. my guess is this was how it was always done, even before religion

this is so fucked up, it must have been around forever.

[stopbush]

27. It's religion that makes it OK to hate women and to do such things.

Not only OK, but REQUIRED.

Some religions require you to stone women to show your love for god. Others require you to deny human rights to gays to show you love god. In both cases, the hate is fueled by religion just as the object of that hate is defined by religion.

Killing people's civil rights as a group is more insidious than physically killing an individual.

The bigots who voted to pass Prop 8 share more in common with the ghouls that stoned this CHILD to death than they do with that child.

Elephant in the room, my friend.

[axollot]

131. Christianity (not so called 'christians') roots and what Jesus taught

were to love the sinner, hate the sin. Yes, organized religion treats gays abysmally. Christ never taught hate, his followers did. I know - my son is gay and out at 14 in NORTH EAST FL of all places, he's out and young in the deep south - so far his friends have been great and his straight male friends still come and spend the night.

[Laelth]

132. Nicely said.

The United States is a LIBERAL Country.

:dem:

-Laelth

[ogneopasno]

43. I wasn't clear in my response.

I do not want to imply that religion wasn't the impetus for this. I believe religion is used by men who hate women to subjugate them.

[samsingh]

92. this is the Islamic religion

[milky9191]

98. that is awful

[samsingh]

103. i know

[raccoon]

16. God, that's awful. Let's get this on Greatest. nt

[lapfog_1]

17. Stories like this confirm for me

that there is no God. At least not a God that pays attention to the likes of us humans. If there was a God, would he/she/it let this happen to this girl?

[xen]

31. I Agree

I have believed since i got to be 16 years old,I am 59 now,that there is no god.
I was forced to go to church each sunday as a kid,but after observing all the evils and Hypocrisy murder,Racisms,Intolerance,hatred and mayhem wreaked upon the world by God lovers,what little good they do, is dwarfed by the evils that most of these Male chauvinistic,so called believers heap upon women and those who don't see things their way.
If there is a God,I doubt he is a Man,and if there is one, he/she must be in deep slumber for a very long time,because to me, Evil is running rampant,and Evil rules in so many places on this earth.
Also as African american Male,a disabled Viet Nam Vet,with 5 grand daughters,this really trips me out.
I personally feel,God and religion will be the death and destruction for us all on earth,if the status quo remains:mad:

[MindPilot]

76. I hear ya, man...and welcome to DU!!

:hi:

[KakistocracyHater]

125. if a spirit did interact

& try to punish them they would call it a demon or a jinn. Most 12th House religions expressly attack & denigrate women & girls(Zionists/Christians/Muslims/Bhuddists), the last-Bhuddists somehow managed to purge priestesses from their part of the world, I'm not clear as to how...

[Midlodemocrat]

133. You can't blame God for this. God gave us free will.

What happened to this child is disgusting, but even the report says that it is against Sharia law to convict a 13yo child.

This was flat out woman hating.

[lapfog_1]

139. If we have all this free will you speak of...

Why pray to God for anything?

[Bill McBlueState]

156. there could be a god who really has it out for little kids

A lot of what goes on in the world makes more sense if you imagine that there's a god who likes us to be miserable.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

164. I think God gave up on us a while ago.

One of these days he's going to take this little ant farm of ours on his coffee table and just toss it in the trash.

[kestrel91316]

18. Everyone who participated in this, or even condones this sort of thing,

needs to be marched out into the desert and enough bombs dropped on them to turn it all to glass.

[BridgeTheGap]

20. This is exactly why the Taliban should not be allowed to run Afghanistan. n.t

[vanboggie]

23. And Palin should never run the U.S. n/t

[hamsterjill]

64. That's exactly right!

We don't need to empower women who truly don't believe themselves that women are equal to men.

And although Palin may consider herself the exception to the rule and believe that she, herself, is an equal, her actions don't indicate that she feels that way about womankind in general as a whole.

The story about this poor little girl is just pitiful.

[Zenlitened]

24. Nor America. - n/t

[reggie the dog]

34. I can agree to that.

The Taliban had nothing to do with 9-11 but their womens rights policy sucks, Saudi Arabia is another place where women have little if any rights.

[Truth2Tell]

89. So who should? You? We seem to be killing plenty

of children there ourselves. :shrug:

[Midlodemocrat]

134. I'll do it. Cause I sure as hell would have put those rapists behind

bars prior to stoning a child to death.

[BridgeTheGap]

143. I absolutely DO NOT agree with how the U.S. & allies have approached this.

but, hey, if you think it's okay to stone girls to death because they were raped - jeesh, where do you go with that? The U.N. should be leading the way. Where are they?

[Truth2Tell]

159. Did I say it was OK to stone girls to death?

What a horrible straw man to even suggest.

My question, and it was only a question, was whether WE/YOU/The USA should RUN Afghanistan (or Somalia etc.) in order to stop this. Invading and occupying these nations has been a pretty lame method of solving anything.

I'm open to ideas. But it's pretty hard to discuss anything with you, if you're gonna suggest that I support stoning girls to death.

[BridgeTheGap]

167. Nor did I ever say I should govern Afghanistan, but you asked if I thought

I should. So, touche, in terms of how you and I BOTH approach an argument.
It is problematic. I am not for occupations. Maybe there does need to be some sort of international force to uphold human rights. The U.S. has too much history of imperial intrigue to be held in a credible light when taking actions such as this. It seems that only Americans keep buying that we can do no wrong.
It may have been possible for the U.S. to establish order early on with overwhelming force and allow the Afghanis to establish their own government and police/military, strong enough to keep the taliban in check. The reliance on air power is a mistake. It turns the Afghanis against us.

[Truth2Tell]

168. Thanks for the thoughtful response.

I strongly agree that any "humanitarian" intervention should only be done as part of a real international effort, if or when that becomes possible. Even the UN has been politicized to some degree with horse trades and marginalization of third world countries, etc. I also think we would be in such a better position to really use non-military means (information, education, assistance, etc.) to affect change in the world if we didn't continue to bankrupt ourselves financially and morally with military campaigns.

And thanks for your point about argument. I suppose discussion is always more useful and we can all use that reminder. :)

[dkofos]

21. FUCKING BARBARIANS!

[LeftHander]

22. American Fundie Christians would do this to gay people....

If given the chance.

[Lyric]

25. Some of them would, at any rate.

I like to tell myself that there are still *some* fundies who wouldn't go *this* far.

At least I hope not.

*sigh*

[cali]

26. no, most wouldn't. a tiny minority would. tiny.

and there simply is no cultural tradition of such behavior here. And no, the Salem witch trials do not constitute such a cultural tradition.

[Lyric]

39. You mean except for the brutal lynchings of AA people, right?

Beating, mutilating, hanging, disemboweling (while still alive) and burning them--usually for some trumped-up "To Kill A Mockingbird"-esque "crime". That was defended in part by a twisted version of religion. It was certainly a cultural tradition here for a while in the Southern part of our nation. Thank god that it isn't any more, save for rare instances like the death of James Byrd in Texas.

[cali]

that's an entirely different cultural phenomenon. First of all, it's not

particularly one rooted in religion. It's certainly horrific, but it's really not a good comparison.

[datasuspect]

the racism of the south was inculcated and reinforced in its christian churches

and the christian religion informed (and largely still does) MOST parts of the daily small town southern life.

[cali]

68. yes, religion was involved- though not a driving force in lynchings

[Common Sense Party]

163. And the abolition movement was inculcated and reinforced in

Christian churches in the North.

[Lyric]

67. I don't know. Southern racism in general was rooted in religion

before it became culturally iconic to the point that nobody really bothered to consider *why* anymore--the story of Noah's son Ham was the excuse, I believe. Ham saw his father naked, and was cursed so that his descendants would forever serve the descendants of his brothers. This was the original justification for enslaving Africans--because they were differently-colored, they were deemed to be the descendants of Ham, and thus destined for slavery. That evolved into the thoughtless racism of later years, and the atrocities committed in the name of preserving white dominance.

Mormons (until about 30 years ago) used a similar story to justify *their* racism, except they chose Cain as the original black man, and the mark he was cursed with by God was his dark skin.

Anyway, the point is just that it *was* originally rooted firmly in religion mixed with profit (and that mixture is damned near an American cultural signpost itself, at this point) and that it certainly became a cultural tradition to commit horrific violence against black people.

Besides, I would say that even *this* isn't necessarily about religion. It's not like all Muslims do this sort of thing. It's more about authoritarian control of the masses and inspiring terror in order to gain power than about God.

[cemaphonic]

107. I don't agree - I think the virulent racism in the South had more to do with

the cognitive dissonance between institutionalized slavery (itself rooted in economics) and the Enlightenment ideals enshrined in our founding documents. If all people are free and equal, with race-based chattel slavery, it follows that you need to define slaves as not fully people.

Religion was certainly used as a tool in creating and maintaining this rationalization, but I don't really see it as a root cause (and I say this as someone who has no belief in, or much use for religion).

[raccoon]

149. It was certainly a cultural tradition in the West, as well. Heard of the Snake River Massacre?

Snake River Massacre

by Mark Highberger

(Published in Old West, winter 1997)

Probably every corner of the West holds its deep secrets, its dark moments that some believe are best left buried. But perhaps the darkest secret of the Wallowa country of northeast Oregon, usually known for the tragic Nez Perce War of 1877, resurfaced recently with the discovery of the long-lost court records describing what some have called, "the crime of the century" and "one of the bloodiest and most spectacular mass murders in American history." This crime, which today remains marked by controversy, was the ambush, murder, and mutilation of Chinese gold miners in the 1887 Snake River massacre….

The time is the late 1880s; the place, the Wallowa country, one of the most remote areas of the Northwest-so remote that even though Oregon achieved statehood in 1859, the Wallowa country still belonged to the Nez Perce until ten years ago. One of its most isolated corners is the Snake River canyon (now called Hells Canyon), the deepest gorge on the North American continent and the border between Oregon and Idaho. Here the frontier still exists. In this canyon and along this river are the shimmering heat, the steep walls, and the whitewater rapids that make the place too dangerous, too isolated to attract any but the most hardy-or the most desperate-settlers. Yet this isolation does attract two other kinds of people: gold miners and horse thieves. The miners work the bars, panning or rocking or sluicing for gold; the thieves drive stolen Oregon horses across the Snake into Idaho, then steal Idaho horses for the return trip to Oregon.

May 1887. At Dug Bar-the traditional Nez Perce river crossing several miles downriver from the Deep Creek mine-is a cabin used by seven men: Frank Vaughn, Robert McMillan (15 years old), Hiram Maynard, Carl Hughes, Homer LaRue, T.J. Canfield, and Bruce Evans. Their business is stealing horses. Canfield and Evans have already been indicted on charges of "altering and defacing brand of a horse the property of another", for which Canfield, now out of jail on bail, will be fined eight-hundred dollars and Evans two-thousand. For these men, the miners at the nearby Deep Creek camp present not only a threat to their business, but also a promise of fast money, easy gold.

So one afternoon in the last week of May, these men leave the cabin and ride upriver to the mining camp. Soon after arriving, they find the Chinese either working in the Deep Creek ravine or waiting out the heat of the day in their dugout. And the shooting begins.
Some miners are murdered in the first moments of the ambush; others are shot as they flee; still others are spared for torture in an apparent effort to learn the hiding place of their gold. But the surviving Chinese speak little or no English, and they are soon shot in the backs of their heads.

The camp is wrecked and burned. Bodies lay sprawled on the ground. And the killers begin to clean up. They drag most of the bodies to a boat, chop a hole in it, and set it adrift on the river…

September 1888. Convinced beyond a reasonable doubt, the jury finds the defendants "guilty of murder in the first degree, as charged in the indictment." But then something strange happens. For reasons unrecorded in court documents, the guilty verdict is not accepted by the court. Instead of being dismissed, the jurors first hear more testimony from both the state and the defense, then receive further instructions from the court, and finally retire again for deliberation. When they return, they have a new verdict: not guilty.….

[LeftHander]

40. cultural precedent for "gay" bashing....very present.

Gay people have been beaten to death since this nation began.

[cali]

58. look, it' s awful but it is NOT codified into the law

and there has never been a tradition of the gov't executing people for being gay. I'm obviously NOT stating that gay people haven't suffered terribly in this country, but it's not the same thing as the way women and gays are treated in certain cultures- legally treated.

[datasuspect]

48. no, there's a more recent precedent: the lynchings of african american men

accused of despoiling the sanctity of white female virtue.

there are plenty of studies on this and primary source accounts from media at the time. the most chilling point is the extreme brutality of the violence inflicted on black men by white (christian) mobs.

not only would they burn a guy, they'd hang him, shoot him, drag him around by his cracked skull, then use blow torches to burn his genitals.

this constitutes a form of cultural tradition, because they would issue post cards to celebrate these murders.

in some cases, they were publicized and people would travel to the county seat to see "justice" meted out to these "offenders."

so yes, there is a christian cultural tradition of mob violence and racism.

[cali]

54. again, that flows from a different cultural tradition.

Furthermore, though it was certainly tolerated, it wasn't codified into law.

This is quite different.

[datasuspect]

57. the religions are different

well, not really really, they have different prophets, but they all worship the god of abraham.

mob violence has always been a feature of the human story.

[cali]

61. I'm not a great fan of any religion but Christianity has never been the guiding

legal principle of this country. Islam- and certain perversions of it- has and is the legal structure in several countries.

[noiretextatique]

115. lynching may as well have been codified into law

since it was "tradition" for a very long time
there was no official punishment for it
law enforcement often participated

[Duncan Grant]

118. No cultural tradition for killing lesbians, gays, bisexuals and trans people?!

I suppose all those homicides (aka: gay bashings) are out of context because they weren't done by a crowd of religious zealots?

We definitely have a cultural tradition which targets LGBT people for violence. Thankfully, most Americans are too timid to act on their impulses.

Please see: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4410916&mesg_id=4410916

[Fla Dem]

122. It becomes a herd mentality. If they could get away with it there would be a segment that would.

All you have to do is look at the lynchings and the KKK. I'd say that was pretty cultural. It's group think.

[reggie the dog]

36. They have done it in my lifetime

ask Matthew Shepard's family.

[Liberal_in_LA]

52. yup. kick

[Raskolnik]

60. No, that's not the same thing.

Matthew Shepard was murdered by two pieces of garbage that thought they could get away with robbing and murdering a gay man. They couldn't.

That doesn't mean that their actions were any less horrific, or that the tragedy is any less for Mr. Shepard's family, but it does mean that the situation is not analogous to a public stoning in a stadium.

[reggie the dog]

62. ok

You are right, the way the two were killed is corparable but there was no stadium of fans in Wyoming that night.

[cali]

65. no. Matthew shepherd's murder4 was NOT conducted under gov't auspices.

The perpetrators did not murder him and stroll home confident that they would face no charges or suffer no consequences. The people who stoned this child to death did so with the blessing of the authorities.

[samsingh]

93. no, i don't like Fundies, but there would not be 1000 of them

hurling stones, only an isolated few maniacs.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

114. maybe there would be more

than an isolated few, if they were egged on by leaders using any given group as scapegoats, grinning before a screeching crowd. (I'm thinking of Palin's grinning at McC's concession speech, as the crowd hissed at every mention of Obama.) But that's speculation and it would take massive devolution of social structure over a long time to drop to this monstrous level.

Anyway, I hate to take focus off the tragic point here, which is misogyny is real, and anyone who teaches (by example, or in any other way) that females are human beings is doing something very important.

[ContinentalOp]

137. Are you kidding me? If it were legal and you could participate without repercussion...

there would be MILLIONS of Americans there.

[Lyric]

28. What I really want more than anything

is to invade Somalia and take every damned female child in the whole country, as well as any adult women who *want* to come, and bring them back here. Then castrate every male who believes that this sort of behavior is "justice," so they can't breed any more daughters to brutally murder for the crime of being raped.

GOD FUCKING DAMN ANYONE WHO EVEN SLIGHTLY APPROVES OF THIS.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[get the red out]

42. Hell Yes!

[LeftyMom]

55. What the fuck?

[Captain Hilts]

80. The people are suffering terribly, the govt. sponsors piracy on the high seas, and ...

terrorist really do use this chaos as a refuge.

[LeftyMom]

97. "The people are suffering terribly" so you want to nuke them?

I think you just skipped straight past fallacious reasoning into pathological thinking there.

[LeftishBrit]

102. You're not serious?

That would kill and mutilate so many more innocent people, and even future generations, and probably lead to the end of the planet.

But there should be sanctions on governments that condone such actions, and vast international pressure to end such horrible practices all over the world.

[CAVU]

113. A planet that tolerates that sort of thing does not deserve to exist.

Period.

[and-justice-for-all]

33. That is EVIL, pure fucking EVIL..nt

[riderinthestorm]

35. Despicable.

I doubt any of the cultural relativists will post on this thread however. They're so brave about defending patriarchal cultural/religious oppression of women except of course when that patriarchal cultural/religious oppression of women turns deadly.

Then its crickets from them.

The two nurses who checked her were women. Women who are raised and brainwashed into these cultures are just as culpable in enabling the oppression. It's a disgusting cycle - it's important imho that the oppression of women must be called out every. single. time. Not just when it's a blatently egregious situation like this.

:cry: :cry: :cry:

[Lyric]

51. Yeah, I'm just waiting for one of the, "Well this is so tragic, but..." types to show up.

Evil. Evil. Evil. Evil. Evil. There's nothing "relative" about the torture, mutilation, and murder of innocent, vulnerable, voiceless women and children.

Cultural Relativism is fine when it's being applied to circumstances and situations in which people AREN'T being murdered, tortured, or mutilated. When it comes to violence, "cultural sovereignty" is no longer important or relevant to the conversation.

[riderinthestorm]

71. See, I don't think giving cultures a pass on women's rights on any level is cool

Violent or otherwise when women are second class citizens it's a problem. Slippery slope arguments apply of course, but a woman doesn't have to be murdered, tortured or mutilated to live an oppressed life.

Nobody gets a pass from me when it comes to human rights - the great and small ones alike, regardless of their culture or religion.

[QC]

79. Well, some have already done the False Moral Equivalency Gambit,

which is a DU tradition when these stories come up. You know, the old "American Christians would do this if they could get away with it."

Um, yeah. The Lutherans down the street from me are always dragging people out and stoning them. Happens all the time.

[get the red out]

56. cultural relativists are as bad as these murders

they promote the flawed idea that evil toward people due to sex, religion, orientation is acceptable. Anyone who is actually a decent person knows that it is never acceptable. If there is a hell, cultural relativists should burn there with the bunch that killed this little girl. They can discuss their airy-fary theories then.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[get the red out]

86. Go play

with the relativists then, in HELL.

[get the red out]

87. Go play

with the relativists then, in HELL.

[milky9191]

100. what can we even say about stuff like this

[get the red out]

37. In the US

when the truth of what FLDS does in their enslavement of women and girls right here in the so-called land of the free both liberals and conservatives seemed to denounce any attempts at breaking this hideous woman-hating cult up as against the freedom of religion.

Extremists are evil, and generally it is the men that get a kick out of torturing and killing women and girls, if it were left up to me they would all be history and their nasty religions. But we need to clean up our own damn festering messes here too, and not just sweep it all under the carpet or we are little better than these barbarians.

I believe the purpose of organized religion is to give men the joy of making women's lives a living hell while the religious leaders steel them blind and send them off to die in useless war, the persecution and domination of women is religion's gift to their enslaved and doomed men. While the fat religious leaders milk everyone for all they are worth, laughing the whole while. Nothing on Earth is less spiritual than religion.

[rateyes]

44. If I had been the father of that girl, I would have died with her...

I would have been picking up rocks and throwing them back at those goddamned thugs until one of them got me. Pieces of motherfucking shit is all they are.

[rug]

45. An eight year old was killed too.

"People in Kismayo say they live in constant fear of the Al-Shabab, but not everyone was content to watch a "clearly distressed" girl being stoned to death. Some people tried to intervene. The gunmen fired shots; one man was wounded and an eight-year-old boy was shot dead. The militia later apologised for his killing."

[Liberal_in_LA]

49. I'm glad to hear people tried to intervene. That gives me hope.

[Greyhound]

46. The beauty of religion. Today it is the Islamic nations.

History shows that each of the followers (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) of this God of death and revenge that came out of the desert has done this same type of thing throughout it's history.

Well past time to move on.

[The Doctor.]

47. My God. That poor girl. The terror, the injustice....

I want to go there and murder these monsters... but that would require more resources and ability than I currently have.

I hope the girl's family deals with the rapists... permanently.

[al bupp]

50. Al-Shabab (or Al-Shabaab) was the militia who's leader was killed in a US airstrike on May 1st

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/africa/jan-june08/somalia_05-01.html

Islamist leader Aden Hashi Ayro, believed to be the head of al-Qaida in Somalia, was killed when the airstrike struck his house in the central Somali town of Dusamareeb, about 300 miles north of Mogadishu, said Sheik Muqtar Robow, a spokesman for the Islamic al-Shabab militia.

Also, here's a website w/ a call to action and sample letter, to quote the link:

http://www.wluml.org/english/actionsfulltxt.shtml?cmd%5B156%5D=i-156-562890

You can write a letter to the representatives of Somalia, the African Union, and various UN human rights offices to encourage them to take action by investigating this murder, bringing the perpetrators to justice, and denouncing the actions of these insurgents.

Insurgents is too nice a word, they're terrorists pure & simple, officially added to the State Dept's list back in February:

On February 29, 2008, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice designated al-Shabaab (aka al-Shabab, aka Shabaab, aka the Youth, aka Mujahidin al-Shabaab Movement, aka Mujahideen Youth Movement, aka Mujahidin Youth Movement, aka MYM, aka Harakat Shabab al-Mujahidin, aka Hizbul Shabaab, aka Hisb’ul Shabaab, aka al-Shabaab al-Islamiya, aka Youth Wing, aka al Shabaab al-Islaam, aka al-Shabaab al-Jihaad, aka the Unity of Islamic Youth) as a Foreign Terrorist Organization under Section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (as amended) and as a Specially Designated Global Terrorist under Section 1(b) of Executive Order 13224 (as amended).

The consequences of these designations include a prohibition against the provision of material support or resources to al-Shabaab and blocking of all property and interests in property of the organization that are in the United States, or come within the United States, or the control of U.S. persons. Secretary Rice took this action in consultation with the Attorney General and the Secretary of the Treasury. Designations play a critical role in our fight against terrorism and are an effective means of curtailing support for terrorist activities and pressuring groups to renounce terrorism.

Al-Shabaab is a violent and brutal extremist group with a number of individuals affiliated with al-Qaida. Many of its senior leaders are believed to have trained and fought with al-Qaida in Afghanistan.

[longship]

53. Recommended and Kicked

:kick:

[arcadian]

59. If I was God I would annihilate the entire country

Scorched earth, and that would be a lesson to the rest of the world.

[MindPilot]

74. If I were god that shit would have never even been thought of.

C'mon God, you can prove your existence right now. Put the hammer down on these motherfuckers.

:popcorn:



Anything?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

104. Yes. Let's Kill All The Rest Of The Innocent 13 Year Old Girls Too.

Probably one of the most ignorant statements I've ever seen on here.

Thankfully though, not only will you never be god, but if you ever were religion wouldn't exist anyway, since it is highly likely that you'd have a pretty tough time finding anyone to follow you.

[arcadian]

109. Not me, God.

n/t

[bighart]

70. all of you who are blaming this on all religion

need to remember our newly elected president is a self-proclaimed Christian.

[MindPilot]

75. I think he was as Christian as he needed to be to get elected.

There was no other way to play the game -- this election was a religious test if ever there was one.

[bighart]

85. are you saying implying that he made that

proclamation solely for political reasons and it is not genuine?

[MindPilot]

121. It is a bit more nuanced than that.

Obama will not make it a centerpiece of his administration like his predecessor. But he did have to meet the media head-on with their obsession with the candidates' faith.

[slackmaster]

147. Only Barack really knows what is in Barack's heart and mind

Personally I don't care as long as a person is able to silo his or her faith, to keep it personal and not allow it to drive decisions which are by law secular.

It is not yet possible to get elected President without proclaiming one's self a Christian.

[INDIA]

117. So Obama's a liar instead? Oh wow, you're really something aren't you? nt

[MindPilot]

120. And you do nuance almost as well as a republican.

Accusing me of calling Obama a liar?! I think that's getting into alert territory, but you are not worth bothering the mods for. Welcome to my ignore list.

[INDIA]

127. uhhh, yeah. that's exactly what you're saying.

Barack Obama has stated and written extensively about his deeply held Christian beliefs. I take him at his word, and believe him. You said he's making it up to get elected, hence, accusing him of LYING about his beliefs.

Alert away bra, alert away. :eyes:

[spoony]

150. I sometimes hear this wishful thinking...

and wonder why it is that such people hold themselves to be more rational than me, for it is certainly without cause...

[slackmaster]

146. Religion is inherently neither good nor bad

It's the implementation that counts; and how seriously people take it.

[Bill McBlueState]

157. so?

Most religious people don't stone little girls. But when people do stone little girls, they do so because of their religion. That's why religion is being implicated.

[WhollyHeretic]

72. I just can't imagine. I can't get this story out of my head

Horrific.

[Liberal_in_LA]

82. Me either. Sorry to post it again. But the victim can't be forgotten.

[Sheets of Easter]

73. Sick, sadistic assholes.

Somalia is host to the worst in government and religion. I'd feel little/no pity if these warlord pigs were eradicated. I am a peace-loving person, but that sentiment is truly wasted on them.

[milky9191]

99. couldnt agree more

totally sickening

[ecstatic]

83. That's heartbreaking. What can we do though?

Anything? I know war isn't the answer... how do we get them to stop?

[get the red out]

88. The truth of Religion

and its evils needs to be shouted to anyone that will hear.

I would hope our government doesn't give money to countries that allow this to happen either. Our assistance should come with human rights strings attached.

[slackmaster]

148. Religion is thought; evils are behavior

One is private and should not be open to criticism; the other affects other people and therefore people must be held accountable for it.

[samsingh]

91. this makes me so mad- i hope for terrible things to happen to everyone

of those asshole stone throwers.

what utter pieces of shit they are.

[varkam]

95. I will never, never, ever...

understand how people can do something like that to one another.

Never.

[LynzM]

126. I will not, either.

Never. Especially never to the *victim* of a horrible crime!

[LeftishBrit]

101. Monstrous

The only thing worse than mob spirit, is mob spirit egged on by some sick interpretation of what God wants.

I hope the publicity given to this will at least lead to much more support for campaigns for women's and children's rights worldwide!

[lonestarnot]

105. Savage animals behave at a higher level than these freaks!

I'm in favor of sending Joe Arpio there to do a round-up.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

110. Several people

including men and boys attempted to save her. Militia members opened fire to stop them and a young boy was killed.

Her father begged for her life but the mob insisted she was guilty of having sex without being married - the father tried over and over to tell them of the rape but the mob wanted to kill her because she had sinned against Islam. The rape had been reported - had they kept quiet she would most likely be alive - The father thought the militia who controls the section of Somalia would arrest her rapists and that they would be punished.

There are no words I can use to communicate the depth of horror I feel. How terrible for that young girl - she was raped by 3 men and then she was tortured to death for REPORTING THE CRIME. Really this is what it is about - WOMEN, DO NOT REPORT BEING RAPED BECAUSE WE WILL TORTURE YOU TO DEATH.

They dragged her from her home as she begged for her life.
They dragged her from her home as she begged for her life.
They dragged her from her home as she begged for her life.
They dragged her from her home as she begged for her life.
They dragged her from her home as she begged for her life.

it is echoing in my head.

[skeewee08]

112. Did the parents

know if they were to report this that their daughter would be stoned? I would n ot have reported the rape if it meant me loosing my child. What do the parents have to say about this did they show remorse am I wrong for being mad at the parents for reporting the rape. I mean do they not know the laws of there STUPID Country.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

123. There are NO laws

at least formal laws there because they are clinched in a civil war - different sects of Islam have taken over different parts of the country and they make up their own laws.

Read my post a couple of spaces above yours. The Father reported the rape but it is my understanding he did not know the girl would be tortured to death.

Oh - and see more all over the internet about what is going on in Somalia - here is a good reference on the war there:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/somalia.htm

[BlancheSplanchnik]

116. Religion serves as the imprimateur

but the primal hunger it serves is power. And women have always been the target, as it's always been so easy to attack the physically weak. seems to me, anyway

ech, there's really no way to wrap this up in some attempt at a simple explanation....

[cliffordu]

119. Ah, Fundamentalism: The best life the 12th century has to offer....

Coming soon to a Dominionist cult near you.

[file83]

128. So what the crowd is essentially encouraging is secretive vigilante justice...

They seem to be encouraging the girl/mother/siblings of girl to avoid "reporting the rape", and rather, just secretly kill the rapist.

I mean, if that's where I lived, and my little sister was raped, I'd just tell her, "Be quiet, don't tell anyone, tell me who did it, and I will put down that animal."

The mob rule leaves no other option but for secretive vigilante justice.

[RedCappedBandit]

129. It's times like this I seriously reconsider my pacifist nature

[Duppers]

136. it's finally ok to post these things

thank you. people need to hear the truth.

[charlie]

138. So we can be really clear on what we're talking about....

[Jamastiene]

141. Those filthy misogynistic bastards!

:mad: :banghead:

[WildEyedLiberal]

142. It's too bad Clinton didn't finish the job in 1992

Send these monsters back to Hell where they belong.

DISGUSTING.

[Marrah_G]

144. They are monsters. The Taliban and those like them need to be driven from the planet.

Anyone who defends them earns an automatic ignore from me.

There is no defense to what these men do to women and children.

[Bosso 63]

151. If I had an attack helicopter. . . . . .

[JanMichael]

154. Please don't criticize them. Cultural relativism makes it ok...

...through that particular lens.

[mzmolly]

155. I assume you're joking?

At least I hope so.

[JanMichael]

160. But of course. I think the rock thowers should be thrown off a cliff.

But it is a good example of how cultural relativism can be a ugly and ignorant concept.

[mzmolly]

161. Point very well

taken.

[Poiuyt]

158. So is Islam a fundamentally evil religion as my Christian right friend says?

He claims that this kind of behavior is approved according to the Qur'an. We got into a rather heated argument the other day. Having not read the Qur'an, I don't know what's in it. Are there phrases in it that could be interpreted to condone this kind of behavior? Or is my friend misinterpreting what's in the Qur'an? (BTW, he's got a Masters of Divinity degree and is a former trial lawyer so he's hard to argue with).

[Luna_C_06]

162. If she's too young to get married,

how could she commit adultery?

[MrSlayer]

165. If they had done this to the rapists, I'd be fine with it.

They seem to have their priorities backward.

[Selatius]

166. Perhaps it was members of the Al-Shabab Militia who raped her and then stoned her to death.

It would then make sense for the militiamen to push for her stoning to shut up a living witness.