Woman killed at Ku Klux Klan Rally in Louisiana

[BOSSHOG]

All the sordid details of the event held in St Tammany Parish (County) are here:

http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2008/11/slain_woman_was_part_of_kkk_ri.html

St Tammy Parrish is "strongly republican." Its a place where citizens are proud of their conservative values.

[hobbit709]

1. Those mugshots look like right out of "Deliverance"

[riverwalker]

2. only second degree murder?

If she wanted to leave and he stopped her, isn't that kidnapping? and why only second degree murder, not first?

[RaleighNCDUer]

41. Never mind.

This is a more detailed story than the first I read, and the facts presented invalidate what I wrote.

[fudge stripe cookays]

125. First is usually premeditated.

That you went to the trouble of elaborately planning and then carrying out a murder or contracting it.

When it's sudden and just escalates out of hand, that is generally not considered first degree.

[DeepBlueDem]

3. Stupid MOFO's

They went to a circle K to ask the cashier how to get blood off their robes!!

[NOLALady]

11. I don't think the blood was on robes.

My guess it was on their only pair of pants. They couldn't afford to get another pair from the Salvation Army.

[DeepBlueDem]

13. They are still stupid in asking the clerk how to get blood off

"The investigation started after two of the Klansmen, Frank Stafford and Shane Foster, showed up at a Circle K in Bogalusa early Monday morning and asked the clerk how to get bloodstains out of clothing"

[NOLALady]

17. I know they are past stupid.

Hubby and I were trying to come up with a 'logical' explanation of why they needed to get blood out of their clothes. 'Only one pair of pants' was my best idea. I was joking, sort of.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

4. This is part of the Republican base - loyal Republicans nt

[Ganja Ninja]

47. Good old family values conservatives.

Family values like inbreeding and bigotry.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

92. Yep! nt

[LittleApple81]

5. These people are domestic terrorists. Why aren't they being

referred to as such??????????

[L0oniX]

9. Because they are republicans. n/t

[Mariana]

44. For the same reason abortion clinic bombers aren't.

They aren't 1) Ayrabs and 2) Moslems. Everyone knows all terrorists are Ayrabs and Moslem.

A guy in Texas last year was convicted of attempting to use a weapon of mass destruction and sentenced to 40 years. You think anyone ever called him a terrorist?

http://www.knva.com/Global/story.asp?S=7239334

[YOY]

6. Ughh...that's the most grotesque thing I've read in a while.

Sick and sad and sick and sad some more.

[Jacobin]

7. Very near Jimmy Swaggert's base

The cretin factor in this area of Louisiana is very strong.

[NOLALady]

8. They are definitely proud.

My daughter said the kids at Slidell High were 'bragging' about how St Tammany and Louisiana supported McCain. Some of the kids were sent home because of derogatory remarks about the President-Elect, I am sure they heard at home.

I'm waiting for another intelligent comment from Jack Strain about the hairstyles of the Kluxers. Something similar to his comments about the 2006 murders

"If you’re going to walk the streets of St. Tammany Parish with dreadlocks and chee wee hairstyles then you can expect to be getting a visit from a sheriffs deputy.”

Ya think the sheriffs deputies will visit all the people with hairstyles like the Fosters and the Watkins?


St Tammany voted 75% for McCain. How bad was it in your county?

[BOSSHOG]

19. However

with all that nonsense going on we still love Slidell and do a lot of shopping there, and I have been known to have a beer or two down there. Back in the 90's we lived right across the highway from Salmen High and I went to a lot of football games there. Also thoroughly enjoy meandering through the Garden Spot. So sad about the ugliness.

[mmonk]

117. While I was driving through Louisiana, I ate at the Applebees

there in Slidell. I think it lost its roof years later when Katrina came through.

[fudge stripe cookays]

126. Chee wee?

Geez....

[dorkulon]

10. Who would have thought the KKK could be violent?

:wtf:

[TNOE]

16. DUH.

That's their entire history - lynchings, burning down people's homes, etc.

Maybe you were being sarcastic.

[dorkulon]

22. Maybe?

Come on now.

[PermanentRevolution]

55. There are times when one thinks "There's no way I need the sarcasm icon for this post!"

And yet DU always manages to prove it...

Almost makes me proud, in an odd sort of way. :patriot:

[TNOE]

88. Good

Makes me proud too - used to spend too much time on RW sites.

[JohnnyRingo]

12. The local investigators comments are disturbing

Though the killing was brutal, and the group seemed well organized and growing, at every turn the police used words to describe them as "good old boys who got mixed up in this" and downplayed their organizational skills and threat to society by calling them stupid.

While I admit going into a Circle K and asking how to get blood stains out of clothes they could have discarded isn't very bright, they can't be passed off as a rag tag bunch of unguided lunatics. This isn't like a group of kids playing D&D.

The judge's decision to not allow bond shows not everyone agrees that they "can't imagine anyone feeling endangered or at risk from these kooks".

Maybe it's just political, and the locals don't want their parish to be labeled as the Klan capital of Louisiana.

[NOLALady]

15. The comments are definitely disturbing,

coming from Strain. He's the one who said his deputies would 'visit' anyone wearing dreadlocks and chee wee hair (whatever that is) in this parish, after a murder in 2006.

[GreenPartyVoter]

69. Nice profiling there. In the past there were plenty of so-called law enforcement

officials who were either sympathetic to their local Klans or outright involved, were there not?

Not saying these particular people for certain, but it does make one stop and think.

[BR_Parkway]

31. Yeah, besides the dead lady, who would feel endangered?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

14. Time to crack down these Republican whackos

Neo-Nazis, KKKers, and others whose only reason for existing is to threaten and eliminate certain groups of people need to be put on the terrorist list, if they already are not.

[JohnnyRingo]

18. I thought another clue was the "unsolved murders" of the parish's 1st two black deputies

I sniff an inside job, because that's where the anger would most likely first form, and cops seldom rest when the victim is one of their own. That investigation may have been buried before the bodies.

Of course I'm not from there, and I'm not privy to the details, but the total sum of events gives hint of a sympathetic sheriff's dept.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

25. You know what? The South is still a sick, psycho place....

I think it never changed much from its sicko desire to retain slavery. However, because they have to live in these cesspools, Democrats living in Southern States are often among the strongest, most committed, beautiful people. You gotta be tough and awesome to stand for what's right even while surrounded by evil, illiterate psychos.

[RedLetterRev]

36. Sarah, Dear one,

I was born and raised in the south. I left home at 18, traveled abroad and returned at 21. Since that time I've lived in 10 of the Lower 48 and have visited 38 of the Lower 48 plus Hawaii. I am saddened to report that the south hasn't got a lock on racism. Some of the ugliest expressions I saw were in the north (remember that Indiana is still the home of the Klan and the worst riots over integration occurred in Massachusetts -- I'm old enough to remember). The south gets painted with it the most. Racism is still an American problem, I'm sad to say. But I begin to feel some hope that were on the road back toward the light after a long, nightmare-filled night.

I'm not flaming, nor am I defending the yay-hoos in Tennessee nor these yay-hoos in Louisiana. I've lived in Louisiana and I bear witness to the Klan being alive and well there, too. But it's not just there. It's a national problem, one that absolutely must be erased if decent people all over our nation are ever to live in peace.

And yes, love ya right back for the shout-out! It's not easy being a bigole, unabashed Democrat in the south. But NC just seceded from Dumf*kistan, can I get a hallelujah!! :woohoo:

:hug:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

91. I live in the South and have travelled the South and I lived in the north, and there's a difference

Believe me there is. I realize it'd be nicer to pretend and far more polite. Yes, there are nice people everywhere, but the South still has a lot to get over from the Civil War.

As far as NC seceding from the Repukes, remember, our campaign got out black voters by the zillion, something that had never happened before.

[RedLetterRev]

101. Yes we did!

And it needed to happen. I believe democracy is a participatory system and it delights me to see more and more people involved. After what's been done to our country, after what the Rove-types, the Helms Legacy, right down to Sarah Palin and her dog-whistle mess encouraged, there's a long way to go.

But I'm glad to see people all over sticking their toe in the dirt, drawing a line and saying, "No more. That's enough of that."

But I will say I've been treated well and I've been treated badly just as much in one state as another. The south doesn't have any bigger claim to any of the bad -isms than any other place and no more claim to any of the better. Love and hate don't know state lines.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

102. I'm white so I've never had trouble with any Southerners nt

[spin]

114. If you're a Yankee, it helps to develop a southern accent....

I learned that in Mississippi while in the service. My wife could never get anywhere with the locals as she had a northern accent (Ohio) and talked fast.

This was many years ago. She would pull her car up to the pump at the gas station and when the attendant would walk up to the window, she would say "Fill er up". The attendant would look dumbfounded and reply "Huh". Drove her crazy.

If you live in the South for as many years as I have, you develop a southern accent without realizing it. When I go back to Ohio, everyone thinks I'm a redneck cracker.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

115. LOL! True. nt

[chalky]

120. Yeah. That philosophy worked for Bush.

The thicker he laid the accent on, the more the dumbasses swooned over the carpetbagging schmuck.

[rebel with a cause]

95. Illinois has a history with the Klan and it still exists here.

I can give you the name of a town that up to eight years ago (I left that region then) was still having yearly Klan rallies on a farm just outside the town limits.

When I lived in NYC, over 20 years ago, David Duke payed a visit and organized the Klan up there. His visit was followed by Jewish Temples being vandalized as well as other ethnic religious group's worshiping sites. It got pretty bad for a while. And yes racism was well and alive among different groups in NYC. Some of these groups are ethnic and supposedly very strong Democratic, so the stereotype does not always fit. They may not be Klan members but they still spew out hate speak and do offensive things to those different than themselves. :shrug:

I don't like racism wherever it is found, or any other kind of ism that leads to discrimination or harm of fellow human beings.

[fudge stripe cookays]

127. I found out recently...

that my great grandfather was supposedly involved almost a century ago with one of the last lynchings in Belleville.

It wasn't enough that my mom tried to raise me to be a little racist, now I feel like I have that to atone for as well.

I fucking HATE my mother's family. Nasty, racist, Bush-voting fucks, all of them.

[rebel with a cause]

129. Belleville has its history there and I know that a few years ago,

it still had a reputation for racist action. Of course, the county where I was born and raised is well known also for this so I cast no stones. When people think of Illinois they think of Lincoln, we were one of the main gateways to the north for runaway slaves and other progressive ideals but we have our shameful history also. Slave trade was illegal in Illinois, but owning slaves was allowed and it was common for people, who could prove their need for one, to be allowed that terrible privilege.

I was shocked when we did our family history research to find that on my father's side there had been two individuals, one a farmer and one a hotel owner, that had each owned a slave at one time. I had a lot of guilt over this because I did not think this was possible because I thought our family on his side didn't go back that far in this country. But like you, I had to deal with the shame of my ancestors being involved with this horrible practice of owning another human being. Finally I had to come to terms with the fact that although it was in my families history, it was not in my history. I cannot go back and change what happened.

This I imagine is what you have had to do. You cannot atone for what your grandfather did. You can feel ashamed and guilt for having it in your history but it is not something you did personally. Sometimes family is something we are better off to just walk away from, as harsh as that may seem. We pick our friends but we have no choice in our family. Good luck with it.

[Rebubula]

37. More Southern Bashing...

I recognize the South can be disturbing from the outside.

However, the South is full of wonderful, kind and polite people that will do anything to help a stranger.

There are many bad apples, but many, many more excellent people. If you were to spend time here, you would recognize the error in your statement. Again...I DO understand the perception and I do acknowledge that there are some horrible, evil people here. Some of them (believe it or not) are Democrats.

Bad people are everywhere and hate crimes occur in all locales. The strangest thing is that I hear the N-word used MUCH more in Boston. Racism and the associated sickness is not limited to the South.

But...if it makes you feel better to demonize the entire region...

[Wiley50]

38. This could have easily happened here in Tennessee where I live

That's why i live as a hermit in this boat on this farm. The only people I associate with (and then not much) is with the couple whose farm I live on. They're not Democrats, but they aren't psychos either. ( I've known them for 20 years., worked out of their carpet store for most of that time. both retired. She's a Jehovah's witness but keeps it to herself)

All of my other friend's, almost family, are here on DU. I know better than to talk much with anyone else as my politics would not be understood (a socialist is the same as a communist, as a terrorist) If TSHTF I want to be invisible. I only leave the boat to go to the doctor and for groceries a couple of times a month.

If my health and money had held up, the boat would have been finished and I'd have gone down the river to the gulf and to Central America long ago. The only way I convince myself that there is even the most foolish hope left is to buy a Powerball ticket twice a week. Not likely but if you don't buy the ticket, it's impossible. Someone always wins it. Maybe me someday.

[Patiod]

42. A great-uncle of mine was in the KKK in PENNSYVANIA

Granted, that was back in the 1930's, but still. My dad remembers going to visit him, and his house had burnt down, and they were living in a tent in the woods in upstate PA. They were Catholic, and there wasn't a black person within 50 miles, but they wanted to be angry at someone for their misfortune - and that thee were no jobs when the coal mines closed in 1929, and only the KKK seemed to want them.

Pennsylvania is still a hotbed of hate activity - if you look at a map, that streak of red counties full of ignorant people, extends well into SW and Central PA.

This sickness is all over the country, and it needs to be weeded out.

[tjwash]

56. Not to mention Idaho...there are as many WP groups there as anywhere

Of course, IMHO...anyone who would just talk about this being a "southern thing," and broad brush all southerners as such, probably thinks all Islamic people in the world are militants as well.

[TWiley]

111. Check out this map of hate groups in the USA

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp#s=LA

You will notice that they flourish in the bible belt on a per-capita basis.

[rebel with a cause]

130. Wow!!!

According to that Illinois has more hate groups in the Chicago area, and none here in the southern part of the state. So much for them talking about us being racist down here. ;)

Evidently the racist down here don't organize. Or the SPL Center just don't know about all the groups. :shrug:

[TWiley]

133. I wonder what it would look like per capita?

[sohndrsmith]

138. TWiley, thanks for sharing this link. Extremely informative and

well organized - sickening as the information is. Having the info is valuable and ought to be required reading. What an eye-opener. Hate should be exposed, not ignored.

Thank you.

[cobalt1999]

58. Wow, what an ignorant and stereotyping attitude.

You'd fit right in with groups that leverage ignorance and stereotypes. I wonder what groups that might be....

[Bryn]

100. Are we back to Southern bashing?

:::sigh:::


a Southerner here x(

[KamaAina]

72. That was the parish where the dunces asked the clerk how to clean blood off their clothes

not the one where the murder took place.

The only reason Washington Parish is involved in this is because the nearest convenience store happened to be across the parish line from the crime scene.

edit: parish

[baby_mouse]

83. I agree. I amazed that they arent aleady.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

116. I sincerely hope they do and that they're doing that! nt

[originalpckelly]

20. The Confederate Flag is not racist!

My response: If the Confederate Flag is not racist, why is it at a KKK ceremony?

Just look at the last few pictures of evidence in that flash gallery, you'll see that the Confederate Flag is a part of the evidence.

[BOSSHOG]

21. One of their bumper stickers explains it away

Heritage Not Hate. yeah right!!!

[cobalt1999]

54. Ask any of them to explain that heritage and history and they'd have no idea.

So, that leaves only one reason they display it.

[TWiley]

123. Good point .... nice argument

[intheflow]

29. Look, sane people might look at a Confederate flag and see

"heritage, not hate." But politically and historically it has been associated with white-supremest activities. It is not unreasonable to think the Klan identifies with the Confederate Flag based on its representation of the Confederacy connections, i.e., back in the days when blacks "knew their place"--that's the heritage these people are embracing. It is hateful. Just because you don't think the same way doesn't mean it's not relevant in this case.

As an example from outside of the South, the book "Catcher in the Rye" isn't a violent book and doesn't promote violence, but it was still considered significant when police searched the home of John Lennon's killer. IOW, sick people can take even the most innocent items and twist them beyond recognition. It's not a stretch to apply that logic to the display of a Confederate flag at a Klan initiation.

[cobalt1999]

40. The Confederate Flag isn't racist, it's just one of many historical flags

It has been used by racists most of whom have no real understanding of history or the causes of the Civil War, nor where and when that particular flag was used.

[RaleighNCDUer]

45. On the contrary, the confederate battle flag is racist because of its

historical use by racist groups, beginning with the KKK in the 1870s, regardless of its origins.

To say the flag is not racist is like saying the swastika is not Nazi, because it predates the Nazis by 3000 years.

Anyone in the western world displaying the swastika knows exactly what is inferred by that symbol today, and anybody displaying the confederate battle flag knows what it means to racists today. Did you know, the confederate battle flag is often displayed overseas by far right organizations? What 'heritage' is intended when it is being displayed in Russia, or Germany, or South Africa (where it was often displayed by the Apartheid groupies)?

[cobalt1999]

52. I disagree with the "regardless of its origins" argument

No argument that in today's world, the swastika and Confederate battle flag are used by racists.

The "heritage" argument they use as cover is false too because most of them have no idea of the history of either. If they have no knowledge of the history, then there is only one reason to cling to those symbols.

However, just because racists today have adopted those symbols in today's world, that doesn't erase the actual history of either. Without those symbols, groups would just adopt another one or make up a new one. The issue isn't the symbol, it's the racists.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

62. The history of both was racism.

The Confederacy was racist in its guiding principles. So was the Third Reich.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

50. I don't understand why "historical" contradicts "racist."

Particularly in view of the racist Confederacy.

[cobalt1999]

53. If your view is the Civil War was only about slavery, then you wouldn't see a difference.

The Civil War was much more than slavery to the Southerns who fought (most of whom didn't own slaves and many who disagreed with the practice).

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

57. No, it was about slavery.

There was a movement back in the early 20th century to come up with excuses about how it was about other things than slavery. Same movement, btw, which led to a resurgence of the klan and the confederate flag. But it was a bunch of revisionist nonsense then, and it is now.

[cobalt1999]

60. Sorry, that's incorrect.

I'm not claiming Slavery wasn't a major factor which revisionists try to do, but to argue that is was all about slavery and there weren't other major issues in play is reducing Civil War history to a middle school level.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

61. It really wasn't that complicated.

The South seceded because Lincoln was elected and they figured he'd end slavery in the midwest, and the South by default.

[cobalt1999]

65. Lincoln just wanted to stop slavery from spreading.

However, the issue wasn't that the powers in the South wanted slavery in the west. By stopping slavery, that in effect was marginalizing the power and influence of the Southern Contingent in Congress.

Eventually, without additional allies (i.e. new slave states), they would have been reduced to a smaller and smaller minority in Congress and have less and less influence.

The line in the sand on slavery was all about POWER and INFLUENCE. By advocating the non-spread of slavery, Lincoln was forcing the Southern power brokers into a corner.

The Civil War was fought for many of the same reasons other wars are fought...POWER.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

67. Yup, and that's why the South seceded.

"The Civil War was fought for many of the same reasons other wars are fought...POWER."

Yeah, the power to keep black people as slaves.

[cobalt1999]

73. Also the power to keep tariffs low, the power to control the scope of the Federal government, etc.

Also, the drifting apart of the regions due to changing cultural and economic bases.

Put it this way, if there wasn't slavery to rally around, it would have been another issue that the South would have rallied around if they found their influence waning.

Slavery was just the easiest and most visible point to divide on. The real issue was two cultures drifting further and further apart and one culture feeling more and more controlled with less and less influence.

Lincoln campaigned saying he wouldn't and didn't want to end slavery, only stop the spread of it to the new territories. That violated the agreement that new territories would come into the Union in pairs (one slave, one free). Why? To keep the power balance intact.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

75. This is the "progressive school" of economic history from the early 20th century I mentioned.

Pretty much thoroughly debunked.

[cobalt1999]

76. Hardly debunked.

Most historians would disagree with you.

The core issue for the war was simply power & influence. Southern influence and power vs. Northern influence and power.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

77. I don't think most historians would.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_American_Civil_War#Economics

Are you familiar with the term "Lost Cause," Cobalt? Ironically, it applies here.

[cobalt1999]

79. You misunderstand.

The cause of the war was NOT economics, that I agree with.

The underlying cause of the war was cornering & limiting of POWER of the Southern states. So, of course last minute economic options weren't going to resolve anything. It's also why Lincoln promising not to abolish slavery in the South didn't stop the war.

If the president promises that Slavery won't be touched, then why fight a war on it? It's because that ended the ability of the Southern states to have a growing influence on the government at a time where MANY issues separated the two regions.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

80. I'm reminded of Alexander Stephens.

During the war: "It's all about slavery!"

After the war: "Err, umm. It was states rights!"

[cobalt1999]

81. What he should have said was "It's all about my wealth, power, and influence"

Just like most wars.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

82. Or, he could have been honest.

Like he was the first time.

[cobalt1999]

86. One last point since this is going no where for either of us.

Prior to the civil war, the South was able to control US politics for a considerable number of years. In the Senate, with each state having 2 senators, the South held disproportionate power. With only 5 million white population versus a Northern population that grew to 14 million, the Southern senators had considerable power.

Many of those Senators didn't have have slaves, but they voted for succession. For many of them, there never was any threat of losing their slaves. However, there was a large threat of losing their power.

If the Civil War was fought without regard to power and wealth, then it was probably the first. Every other stated cause, like with most wars, is just window dressing to get people to fight.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

87. If you're going to define the reasons for the Civil War...

as the nebulous, dodgy "for the same reasons all wars are fought," nonsense, it's pretty clear you're simply trying to ignore the fundamental issue that the Confederacy was racist at its core.

[cobalt1999]

89. Power & Money aren't "nebulous and dodgy"

Put it this way, if the North could have left slavery intact but taken away the Southern elites power, there still would have been a war.

If the North could have left Southern elites power intact while abolishing slavery, there would not have been a war.

Was the Confederacy racist? Absolutely. No one is arguing otherwise.

It's not nebulous to see that most wars are fought for reasons beyond the surface description. As you pointed out yourself with your example, the stated reason changes. Lincoln sure didn't start off saying this was a war on Slavery either.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

93. Sure it is.

"Why was the Civil War fought?"

"The same reasons all wars are fought."

That is a nebulous, dodgy, intellectually dishonest non-answer.

"Was the Confederacy racist? Absolutely. No one is arguing otherwise."

Ah, but you decided to go down this "economics" path when you took issue with me pointing out that the history of the confederacy was one of racism.

[cobalt1999]

97. I never denied the Confederacy had a history of racism

So did the North.

The "economics path" was an example of one of many factors (including slavery) that breed a power struggle between the two regions. Was it the ONLY reason? No. I never claimed it was. Anyone would be stupid to suggest only one issue drove a wedge between the pre-Civil War North and South.

However, you are claiming that Slavery was the ONLY reason. That my friend is really intellectually dishonest and shallow. It's nothing more than you'd read out of a Junior High textbook.

Actually, the Civil War did have the same roots as most wars. It would be a big surprise if it didn't. Wars are seldom if ever noble affairs such as "freeing the slaves" or "spreading democracy" or "stopping the huns" regardless of what you read on summary Wikipedia pages.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

98. "The Confederate flag isn't racist."

Your quote.

Then when I pointed out that the Confederacy was founded on racism, you started in on the slavery canard.

[cobalt1999]

103. It is the flag of a temporary breakaway country from the US

The US was racist at the time of the revolution. The North was racist at the time of the Civil War. The US to a lesser degree is still racist. That doesn't mean the US flag is racist.

The Confederacy was born due to a small group of men not wanting to lose their power, money, and influence. There were many people who fought for the Confederacy that did not approve of slavery. People fought and died under that flag that never owned nor wanted to own a slave.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

105. Racism was the founding principle of Confederacy.

The "yeah well other countries were racist too" excuse will not get you out of the corner you have painted yourself into.

[cobalt1999]

136. No, money, greed, and power was the founding principle of the Confederacy

You somehow think the power brokers of the Confederacy were more interested in slavery than they were money/power/influence.

While you dream that I'm in a corner, I'm wondering why you don't get the simple fact that wars aren't fought over high principles like "ending slavery", but are almost always fought for more base desires.

[cushla_machree]

107. agreed

But slavery was a part of that wealth. It ran the whole economy..so how people can marginalize the war to states rights is beyond me. But it isn't as simple as just slavery either.

[RaleighNCDUer]

68. In other words, their power and influence was based on the region's

slave economy.

Ergo, IT WAS ALL ABOUT SLAVERY.

[cobalt1999]

74. Like I said above, if it wasn't Slavery, it would have been tariffs

The two regions were drifting apart and the south was feeling more and more isolated and powerless. Once the split of territories went from 1 slave; 1 free to all free, the southern power brokers felt like they had to act.

[RaleighNCDUer]

63. No, you are wrong.

There were other issues, of regional tariffs, of international trade, of state's rights and federalism, but the ONLY issue that pushed it to war was slavery. None of the other issues had a fraction of the cachet that slavery did.

Once the war was started, it took on a life of its own. People enlisted to defend their homes, and they were fighting for their families and friends, if not for slavery. But without the slavery issue there would have been no war, plain and simple.

[whoneedstickets]

64. You'd better add a sarcasm tag to that.

nt

[ColbertWatcher]

85. Here's one picture ...

[crispini]

23. WTF?

How horrible.

[leftchick]

24. good lord! Talk about inbreeding!

Ugly, stupid fucks with hate and guns. :puke:

[tjwash]

26. President Obama can now use the Patriot Act to go after these hate groups...

...and deny them things like Habeus Corpus, Search and Seizure Rights, 4th amendment protections, and can also tap their phones without warrants.

:sarcasm:

That was sarcasm, we really do need to get rid of that fucking act ASAP, and the O-man needs to make that his first priority. Even reprehensible animals like our domestic terror groups deserve equal protection under the law, and fair trials. It's the main thing that separates us from third world dictatorships. Even as much as I would like to handcuff them all without a trial and drag them off to GTMO.

But you can't deny the irony of this entire situation...weren't these the same fucking groups that were cheering the Patriot act when it went after brown skinned people and let them do whatever the fuck they wanted as long as they were bush supporters? Shoe is on the other foot now fuckers, just like we tried to warn everyone when that shit was getting passed.

Bet it sucks to be in their little world now...

[Heather MC]

27. OMG they shot her AFTER SHE LET THEM SHAVE HER HEAD

No I know this is sad and serious, but did I read that right. they shaved her head?
Then she changed her mind?????

[NOLALady]

34. I get the feeling

something is missing here. Probably they expected something of her after they shaved her head that she wasn't prepared for. :shrug:

[Two Sheds]

46. you're on to something

This was turning into a rape. The KKK angle is there of course, that's what got that unfortunate woman to Louisiana, but mostly it's there to let the VERY RACIST police of St. Tammany Parish feel good about themselves.

[tnlefty]

51. We were wondering about this when it was reported on the news

here this morning. There is Klan activity in OK, so why did she go to LA?

Was she genuinely interested and then something scared her and she wanted to leave?

Was she just going to see if the Kooks really were nuts? Or was she attempting to infiltrate the group? Moral: stay away from Kooks with a history of violence.

I was looking around a few days ago and noticed that the GA Knight Riders has an event coming up soon and the agenda includes: returning prayer to school :crazy:, sex offenders, and illegal immigration. :rolling eyes and shaking head:

[petronius]

66. That was my first thought - that this was a sexual assault

Eight guys and one woman going off into the woods to perform made-up 'rituals', where the woman is the initiate - mix in a bit of alcohol, stupidity, and the sexism that is rampant in white power groups, and it's almost a guarantee that someone will suggest that the initiation should involve some sort of 'togetherness'...

:(

[Gwendolyn]

78. It's always a brilliant idea to go off into the woods with guys you just met off the internet.

:crazy:

I figured it was some sexual assault crime from the moment I read it too.

[TWiley]

110. Maybe they thought she was FBI or something

[The Doctor.]

28. God these people are stupid... read on;

"Foster's son, Shane Foster, and Frank Stafford showed up at the Circle K store on Louisiana 21 in Bogalusa early Monday morning and asked the clerk how they could remove bloodstains from their clothes, said Lt. Tom Anderson of the Washington Parish Sheriff's Office. The clerk, who recognized the men, later called the Sheriff's Office, and the men were soon found, Anderson said.

Alerted to the situation, St. Tammany Parish deputies then converged on the campsite while the remaining six Klan members fled. Deputies found the woman's body and caught five of the suspects in the woods, Strain said. Foster turned himself in after being contacted by police, Strain said."

Stupidity and hate are a dangerous combination... but ultimately self-defeating.

I don't have a lot of pity for anyone involved here.

[JohnnyRingo]

39. I'm no great criminal mind, but are clothes so expensive they had to salvage them?

It's clear this trip to the Circle K was their downfall (fortunately).
They could have burned their jeans and gone about their pitiful lives until one of them bragged about it, at least.

As it is, the clothes are now key pieces of evidence.
Maybe they had nothing else to wear to the Wal-Mart.

[NOLALady]

43. That was my conclusion, also.

They couldn't run to Wal Mart (or Salvation Army) wearing their only pair of pants since they were bloody. They figured the Circle K folks wouldn't notice.

[Mariana]

48. Oh, they'd have been caught.

It may have taken a little longer if they hadn't done that. Most likely, one of the group would have got drunk (probably a nightly occurrence) and run his or her mouth very soon, as you suggested. Also, the dead woman would have been reported missing at home and an investigation would have led to them rather quickly.

I also believe that local law enforcement knew all about this little group and their activites before this murder was ever reported. They're pretending to be shocked at the very existence of this bunch, acting like they had no idea such things were going on in their midst, but I'm not buying it.

[The Stranger]

30. They make it sound like a Ku Klux Klan Rally is some sort of regularly scheduled event.

The only thing of note was that someone was murdered at this one?

Very frightening.

[guitar man]

32. sickening

I'm conflicted as to how to feel about this though.

The woman apparently learned about Foster's group, the Sons of Dixie, through the Internet and applied so she could recruit others in Oklahoma

On one hand, I'm glad that she won't be coming back here to Oklahoma to spread hate, but at the same time, I really don't like to see anybody killed.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[cureautismnow]

35. I would expect something like this in 1808 or 1908, not 2008.

The calendar must be lying when its reads the present time in some bewildering parts of the country. Disgusting. I hope they lock these cowardly, pea-sized-brain thugs up until 2108.

[TWiley]

109. Better join the Southern Poverty Law Center, these wacko's will floursh

Click on this to see how prevelant it is.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp#s=LA

[cureautismnow]

124. That's really sad. So much hatred in the U.S.A. even now.

At least Hawaii and Rhode Island don't have any of these organized, hateful knuckle-dragging groups.

Thanks for the depressing link. :-(

[Quantess]

49. Wow. Fascinating read.

K & R

[Deep13]

59. Violence at a Klan rally? Who would have thought?

Geez, people ar not safe ANYWHERE.
:eyes:

[bvar22]

70. The Times They Are A Changing!

I'm not discounting the horrible tragedy of the poor girl's death, but there is some good news here.
A generation ago, no one would have heard of her death. It would have been quietly covered up by the Sheriff's Office. The employee at the Circle K would have mysteriously disappeared, and NONE of the locals would have opened their mouth.

Not too many years ago, St Tammany Parish and Washington Parish were a stronghold of David Duke.
NOW, the Sheriff 's Office is arresting and jailing these assholes, and making very public pronouncements that this kind of thing will NOT be tolerated.

I'm familiar with that area.
This is a HUGE step in the right direction.

[byronius]

71. The faces say everything. Dumb as stumps, no moral compass.

These people were made for this kind of ending.

Who made them?

[Quantess]

121. a dumb stump-maker?

[byronius]

131. I know that guy. Always with the hatchet.

[Dappleganger]

84. Sounds like Natural Selection

[musette_sf]

90. Strain is the same idiot who said

"if you're going to walk the streets of St. Tammany Parish with dreadlocks and chee wee hairstyles then you can expect to be getting a visit from a sheriff's deputy".

you can read the open letter to this douche from the ACLU here:
http://www.laaclu.org/News/2006/aclu_open_ltr_StrainJul0506.htm

now he's saying:
"'I can't imagine anyone feeling endangered or at risk from these kooks,' Strain said. 'This Sheriff's Office will not allow it. We're not going to tolerate this in St. Tammany.'".

riiiiiight. i think Strain knows a lot more about these creeps than he is publically letting on.

[NOLALady]

94. I'd like to add Tim Wise's

open letter to Jack Strain regarding the same incident...

http://www.lipmagazine.org/~timwise/LITTLEMAN.html

[intheflow]

104. I love Tim Wise.

What a great essay. Can't believe the idjit Wise wrote about is again in the public eye--trying to defend his town from smears about racist crackers when he may be next in line for the Grand Wizard position. :puke:

[TexasObserver]

96. Soon to be a stage show featuring the hit song "Don't Cry For Me, Louisiana"

I have a hard time being troubled by the outcome, although having the KKK active, of course, troubles me.

Hateful woman joins Klan, gets killed by them. They get charged with crimes.

Sounds like the story has a happy ending.


Now, if the FBI would take over the case, and not let Joe Bob fuck it up, I'd feel better.

[cooolandrew]

99. I think it's encouraging that the police said they aren't going to tolerate it tin their district.

[cushla_machree]

106. People still join the KKK?

These people are domestic terrorists. Not as bad as that awful william ayers, though!

The initiation continued at the campsite, with rituals that consisted mainly of lighting torches and "running around in the woods, " Strain said.

Grade A MORANS. Im trying not to laugh at them...how DO you get blood stains off your clothes?

[Blue Diadem]

128. Ever seen Southern Poverty Law Center's hate map?

I was shocked the first time I saw how many KKK and other hate groups exist.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp

[TWiley]

108. Sheriffs "suprised" with about 12 groups within about 60 miles?

Sheriffs surprised

The Klan's involvement came as a surprise to law enforcement in St. Tammany and Washington. Officials from both sheriff's offices said they had not seen any significant crimes that could be attributed to the Klan, with Washington Parish Deputy Brian Davidson saying the most significant indication of activity in his parish was a single case of graffiti.

However, Strain and Davidson both said the revelation of this group will spur further investigation to determine the group's membership and activities. Investigators have search warrants for the suspects' homes that might provide more evidence of the group's reach and intentions.

"How much of this is pageantry and how much of this is serious? It's too early to tell, " Strain said.


Hey Dick Tracy, a woman was killed. How much of that is pageantry? Why not sleuth over here for a few clues. Click on both Mississippi and Louisiana

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp#s=LA

[tnlefty]

119. I donate to the Southern Poverty Law Center, and have for years,

Morris Dees is a sort of hero to me. I use the map to keep track of the groups around me and in this state. Part of my tracking is looking at groups in other states, and I went to the site for LA and found a site for a really nasty group, The Keltic Klan that I don't think is in the US.

The groups are out there, I just look for increased activity in this state and the surrounding ones. I prefer vigilance to being blown out of the water when something happens. but this incident wasn't on the site earlier. The lawsuit against the members of the Imperial Klan in KY started today, I think, and I wish the SPLC good luck in the suit. :hug:

[TWiley]

122. I am a member as well, and it is time to renew

I do think that the SLPC will need all our help the next 4 years. I also expect a surge in right-wing radical groups.

The republicans like to talk about terrorism and homeland "security" but their vision of vigilantism is not much different than what your local KKK has to offer.

I feel that every stateside American is more threatened by a domestic terrorist attack than by any foreign. The odds are probably at least 1000 to 1

[MountainLaurel]

112. Irony alert: Her last name was Lynch

Police identified her this afternoon:

http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2008/11/authorities_identify_oklahoma.html

[fascisthunter]

113. I Bet They all Voted Republican

[musette_sf]

118. just reported that the killer

rented his house from a Washington Parish sheriff's deputy!

of course the deputy had NO idea about the scumbag's activities. riiiiiight.

[CatBO]

132. And I feel care about a racist lady .. why?

:shrug:

[tom_paine]

134. I feel shame for all the good and decent people in the South when these fuckers give you a black eye

And as we all know, all the "KKK Democrats" from the 60s and before long ago shed their pointy hats and white robes (well, ALMOST all of them), put on business suits and joined the Repubic Party.

NOW they disenfranchise African-Americans with computers instead of lynchropes, the bastards.

But we know, Chief, that people like THAT don't represent the South.

People like you do.

:toast:

[malaise]

135. As one article points out

(the)Klan is still no laughing matter

At least this bunch will be heading to prison.
http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2008/11/klan_is_still_no_laughing_matt.html

[deaniac21]

137. They all look like Mississippians.

[Solly Mack]

139. the phrase, as ugly as homemade sin comes to mind