Deutsche Bank Foreclosure Papers say they have "lost" the deed - Anyone want to give us some advice?

[1776Forever]

I read the following on the Ohio Judge that threw the Foreclosures out in Ohio last year because Deutsche Bank couldn't prove they owned the foreclosed homes because they had "lost" the paperwork. You can read about it here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x320886

We just got served tonight after moving out of our Florida home 3 months ago. We just couldn't find a full-time job and we only had my Social Security and my husbands Military pension. We had also helped out my middle-son for 2 years who had developed MS and had no insurance.

What I don't know is what to do now. The paperwork said we had 20 days to protest the filing but we have no defense except a lousy economy and no health insurance for a totally ill son. I don't think the judge would give a crap about that. We tried to talk to the lender but they didn't offer us any help so we moved from Florida back to Ohio in August.

The paperwork did say that Deutsche Bank had "lost" the prove that they own the property. What I would like to know, if anyone can help is, should we file Chapter 7 bankruptcy now? There is no way we could go back to our home in Florida because there is no way we can or could pay $1,500 a month plus utilities. Will they come after our pensions now? What if my husband gets a job, will those wages be garnished if we do or don't file bankruptcy?

Thanks for any help you can give us.

[amdezurik]

1. If they lost those papers they may have lost

any claim to the property and may be forced to return it to you. You really need a Fla lawyer on that though

[1776Forever]

4. Thanks for your time -

:hi:

[Trajan]

2. You need bona fide legal assistance ....

Hopefully one of the good DU lawyers will kick in here soon ....

Im sorry for your pain .... I hope this works out for you ....

I dont think they can come after your pensions, but I dont know ....

[1776Forever]

5. I appreciate your reply -

:pals:

[NashVegas]

3. Get a Lawyer Immediately

If they can't find the deed, they can't foreclose, but this thing isn't going to go away on its own and they're not going to do the legwork for you.

[1776Forever]

6. I emailed one local service here where I am - hoping they contact me tomorrow -

If not I will call them.

Thanks - :-)

[mike_c]

7. you'll hear lots of folks offer the same advice....

Talk to a lawyer. Seriously. They'll charge you for advice-- that's how they make their living-- but you need the advice and the first consultation is usually free.

[philosophie_en_rose]

8. You need specific legal advice.

Florida Legal Services might be able to help. http://www.floridalegal.org/

[1776Forever]

9. I found a number I can call tomorrow - in case anyone else needs help here it is...

If you're a homeowner who is facing foreclosure, call us toll-free at 1-866-607-2187.

Thank you very much!:hi:

[1776Forever]

27. Follow up - You helped me out more then you know!

I went to this link and they had 2 brochures on! They were great! The one told me everything I needed to know and even had a template. I followed this and sent my replies out today.

Here is a big hug for you -

[philosophie_en_rose]

28. You're very welcome.

I'm glad it helped. :pals:

[Sanity Claws]

10. Must have lost the note, not the deed

The deed is recorded with the County. An official copy could be obtained. If you are the homeowner, your name is on the deed.
A note is a negotiable instrument. If they don't hold the note, they don't have proof that you signed a note, promising to pay money. In other words, they wouldn't be able to foreclose on you. However, all of that seems moot since you moved out and apparently don't want the property.

As for coming after you, they need a judgment in order to garnish your wages. From what you said, there is no judgment against you.

You really need advice regarding bankruptcy and other options.

[1776Forever]

11. Thanks - you are right it was the note - love your name!

:grouphug:

[dailykoff]

12. One strategy might be to stall. Once the 20-day deadline goes by

you'll have trouble reversing it, but there might be hope on the horizon if you can delay it. If you made a partial payment, say 500 bucks, you might have grounds for callenging the deadline. Free legal services would be helpful if you can find any.

[yodoobo]

13. If they don't have the mortgage or note

they can't foreclose if you press the issue. (if you don't respond, they get their way automatically)

But that 20 day thing is extremely important. Remember, a valid defense - a valid legal defense cares NOTHING about the economy or health insurance or the price of tea in China. Your right, that defense won't buy you more than 2 seconds of consideration from the judge.

No, a valid defense would be something like "I paid them, here are the receipts" or "I'm being sued in a court that lacks jurisdiction"...OR...."THEY CAN'T PROVE THAT I OWE THEM THE MONEY BECAUSE THEY CANNOT FIND ANYWHERE WHERE I SIGNED A NOTE OR MORTGAGE"

You've got alot of question that you pose. Few can be answered here. If you just stand by and watch, they will successfully foreclose, garnish wages and do all kinds of other nastiness.

Get a lawyer. There are lots of possible defense and strategies, but if you stand by and do nothing, the worst that can happen, will happen.

[1776Forever]

18. I am going to make some calls tomorrow - Our home mortgage was sold 4 times that I know of.

Thank you!:-)

[kcass1954]

14. In Florida, the deed to the property is in your name until you convey it to

someone else or the bank forecloses. The mortgage document is what encumbers the property. Both documents are recorded in the county records where the property is located. The lender needs the original note to foreclose on the property. The note is not a recorded document; it is the responsibility of the note owner to keep it in a safe place. If Deutsche Bank was not the loan originator, the note will be assigned to them; this assignment will either be on the back of the note, or on a separate paper as an attachment to it.

Deutsche Bank does not own the property and they won't have a deed to it unless they have already completed the foreclosure process. If you've received the 20-day letter, this is your time frame to get an attorney and mount your defense. A good attorney will review your loan, including all the disclosure documents you received when you applied for the loan. Something as simple as a miscalculation of the APR on the Reg Z disclosure may be a valid defense.

If you're going to file bankruptcy, don't wait. Get an attorney now. If no challenge is filed within this 20-day time frame, the lender gets the go-ahead to take the property. A bankruptcy filing prior to the courthouse sale will halt the foreclosure process.

Guess what I used to do for a living?

I'm very sorry for the problems you're having. I absolutely understand you helping out your son - I would do the same thing. If we had a functional health care system in this country, we'd all be much better off.

[1776Forever]

17. Excellent advice - my heartfelt thanks!

:pals:

[Wiley50]

15. I'm not a lawyer, but I have questions and maybe a bit of helpful info

Help me see this clearly

Is the house being foreclosed the one in Fla? or in Ohio?

If it's the one in Fla, if you could get out from under the $1500/mo mortgage, could you afford to live there?

The reason I ask:

I've heard that the Homestead law in Fla makes it almost impossible for them to take your house in a bankruptcy.

I've heard that many people put all of their wealth into a Fla house, declare bankruptcy and give all of their creditors the middle finger and they can't be touched.

Of course, you should check this out with a Fla lawyer as I may not understand this right

but, it's good to be able to ask the right questions of the lawyer.

But if it is the way I understand it, plus the bank can't produce the note

this might just be a Godsend

But, Get a lawyer because I'm not sure

[1776Forever]

16. The problem wasn't so much the mortgage it was the insurance & taxes - they kept going up & up.

Finally they just got so high we couldn't keep up. We tried to file bankruptcy but that, believe it or not, cost too much to do. We felt like ping pong balls!

[ladjf]

19. The signed and notarized deed should have been filed shortly

after the loan was made. If that happened, the County in which the property exists would have a photocopy of the official deed. It would show all of the pertinent information. If that deed was not presented to the County at the time of the last closing, then the previous filing would still be in effect.

If the Bank is unable to locate any document, including the original or photocopy of the loan, there would be a question of ownership. If the last deal was a refinance,the previous lender would have been paid off by the new bank.

Get a lawyer to check it all out. You might be able to get the house back.

Good luck.

[depakid]

20. You might be interested in reading this

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20081028/COLUMNIST/810280346/2256/NEWS?Title=Proving_who_owns_a_mortgage_isn_t_easy

There are cases in Florida where foreclosures have been prevented because the plaintiff can't prove that it owns the mortage.

[Divine Discontent]

21. looks like you got some great advice... God bless! I've got something

reallllllly special for you that I'll tell you about the next time we talk - it's gorgeous!

:hug:

[TexasObserver]

22. Do not file bankruptcy. Do get a lawyer ASAP.

There is no reason for you to file bankruptcy, unless there is a real threat they can get a deficiency judgment against you. Even if they can get one, they may not be able to enforce it against your assets. Only a lawyer who is familiar with your state's laws can really tell you.

Do not try to figure this out on your own. Get a lawyer, and I will almost guarantee you that you will NOT pay any deficiency, but you need to assert yourself now through an attorney. You see, you may be able to extract a promise from the lender to leave you alone on the deficiency if you let them foreclose the house without any delay.

Act quickly, as your time is running fast.

[1776Forever]

23. Thank you - I have been thinking that may be the key to this.

:hi:

[TexasObserver]

24. Right now you may have some leverage by virtue of your ability to delay foreclosure.

As soon as the foreclosure occurs, you lose some of your leverage. This window in time is one you may be able to use to your advantage. Some states and some types of loans do not allow the lender to pursue a deficiency judgment.

You want a lawyer who is familiar with addressing foreclosure and default notices. You're a long way from needing a bankruptcy attorney, however.

[nonconformist]

25. File a protest anyway, it will delay things

I've been through this before, and even if you don't have a "valid" excuse, simply filing a protest will delay things a bit and give you more time.

Get a lawyer right away. Best of luck to you.

[shimmergal]

26. I think the only debts

they can touch your soc. security for are student loans, other claims owed to the government, and child support stuff. The military pension may well be the same case. BUT from what I've read, once the social security payment is deposited in your bank account, someone who has a claim against you can go into your account for it. So you'd need to have the paper check sent to you in the mail, then find some other way to get it cashed.

I'm no attorney, though, and it does sound like you need one.
Good luck!

[Romulox]

29. Deeds are RECORDED in your local register. The physical piece of paper isn't required to evidence

ownership.

This whole thing makes no sense.

[ThomWV]

32. It doesn't matter that the deed is recorded - what matters is if the lien is recoreded

If no lien is recorded then there is no lien. The deed is really only there to tell the County who to send the tax bill to. I say that because even if the deed didn't exist the dirt does, by which I mean that the actual 'real property' exists unless there is a great gap in the earth somewhere and all the deed does is show who bought it last, not who financed it. It is the lien that tells the story of who is owed for the property and if no lien is on file then the Judge should rule that there can be on default if there is no recognized debt.

[AngryAmish]

30. You need a lawyer, not loudmouths on an internet board

That is sound legal advice.

[KharmaTrain]

31. Unfortunately This Is A Big Hidden Mess...You're Not Alone...

What caused the mortgage market collapse is the selling and reselling of mortgages...or parts of them. While you may be sending your check to Deutsche Bank, they have be only holding a part of your mortgage and have no clue who they sold the other parts to. In essence they used your mortgage to try to make even more money and didn't care where the money came from or who they sold it to.

As others have said, I STRONGLY suggest talking to an attorney...even thought it is a big expense, it's money well spent as you need someone who can help you unravel what is sure to be a mess the bank is trying to paper over. I'd also talk with the Secretary of State or whomever handles land transactions in your state...see if your problem is happening to others and what they suggest. Lastly, I'd call a housing advocacy group...ACORN is one such organization, I'm sure there are other...that can look into your specifics and help explain what's really going on...or if they don't know, they can get answers as well.

Most important, try to keep your wits about you...and don't face this alone if you can. My best to you and your husband. Words are beyond me how good people are allowed to suffer while the greed and criminality goes on.

Cheers...

[DU GrovelBot]

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