Dean is out as health secretary, sources say.

[madfloridian]

From Politico.

What is so sad about this is that he stood up to the Republicans, stood up for following rules as the DNC chairman.....and now is being said to be too partisan to work with Republicans in congress.

I never thought he was a serious contender, but the reasons given are heartbreaking.

Someone who said we can't be just like them and win, is out because he said that. And we won.

Dean out as health sec, sources say

Democratic National Chairman Howard Dean is not a serious contender to be secretary of health and human services in the new Obama administration, sources said.

Dean’s name has appeared on short lists for the Cabinet post circulating throughout Washington, based largely on his party chairmanship and career as a doctor. Dean also passed health care reforms while governor of Vermont. And his allies said the Obama transition team has had some informal discussions with him about the job.

But the chief attributes President-elect Barack Obama is seeking in his HHS secretary will be an ability to work with members of Congress and shepherd reform legislation through the House and Senate.

That job description has turned out to be a particularly ill-suited one for Dean, given his partisan background and lack of congressional experience, sources inside and outside the transition offices say. Dean never served in Congress and spent his Washington career trying to thin the ranks of congressional Republicans that the Obama White House will need to court during the expected debate on health care reform. (Oh, Gee. shame on him for trying to get Democrats back in the Congress)
Another contender for the HHS post, former Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle (D-S.D.), could have similar partisan problems. But Daschle has an insider's understanding of the legislative process and, most importantly, how to work the Senate and its many egos.

And of course they had to mention that Rahm despises Dean.

But Dean, who’s announced he’s relinquishing the party gavel, could still face hurdles — not necessarily insurmountable ones — given his sometimes rocky intraparty relationships. In 2006, Dean clashed sharply with incoming White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel over how to allocate party resources during the midterm elections.

He did what he had to do to in his job to help us win back Congress. Now because he did what he had to do....no position is available.

Typical, should have expected it seeing who are the power players now.

[madfloridian]

1. Take a seat, kick your feet up, and watch our party close up again.

:shrug:

Oh, and don't forget to fuss at me and tell me I am over reacting and and imagining things.

Just like was done the last two days.

Many of us at DFA said he would be used as we have been, and chewed up and spit out after we won.

[Cleita]

6. This might be the straw that makes

me leave the party. I've been thinking about it but I've tried to give them every benefit of the doubt. However, it seems they are trying to squeeze out all the progressives in positions of power where they can do some good.

[TheWraith]

51. Oh good God.

It hasn't been ten days, and already the DU purity test brigade is out in full force to declare the death of the Democratic Party.

:eyes:

[madfloridian]

53. AHA That's a new name. The Purity Brigade

Yes, I must be a member of that.

There is nothing wrong with expecting my party not to act like Republicans.

They sent out at least two memos now that are meant to marginalize what Dean accomplished.

SO either Obama approves, or he does not know what his staff is doing.

[SharonAnn]

67. The road to ideological purity usually leads through a concentration camp.

[madfloridian]

72. I don't believe you said that to me. Unbelievable. Lieberman remains..

and is embraced. Talk about ideological.

[clear eye]

83. What memos? n/t

[TheWraith]

93. And this sort of rumormongering and nonsense is what I find ridiculous.

Anything, the smallest, most nitpicky detail--even if it's just something you heard, suspect, guessed--is good enough reason to assume the worst, throw the party and all the progress that's been made under the bus, and eat the cyanide pill.

I'll go ahead and say it: it's childish, and not the way to win lasting political power. If you really think there's no difference between Democrats and Republicans, if you think that Obama's not going to be a better president on his worst day that the Shrub was on his best, fine. Take your ball, and go home.

God forbid that anyone should point out that Obama specifically retained Dean as the head of the DNC when he had the option of getting anybody he wanted. Nevermind all the moves he's made, even politically risky ones, to stay on the right side of the issues. Nevermind that he's had the political courage to come out for things that were right albeit unpopular like opposing the war and supporting diplomacy.

No, there was a rumor on the internet that Dean was out of the running for a post that we don't know if he was ever actually IN the running for, and which we don't know if he wants, so that's a good enough reason to throw our guy into the fire. :eyes:

[madfloridian]

95. The article was quite specific, written by someone I respect.

It is the Obama staffers leaking it about Dean...they knew details about the convention esp. that most did not know.

Lieberman loved for his embrace of Republicans...Dean out because he stood up to them and energized out party.

I find your statement ridiculous. It makes no sense at all.

Either Obama can't control his staffers leaking, or he approves.

It is a tragic thing to happen and totally unnecessary. They are pandering to Joe Lieberman and republicans and leaving the rest out in the cold.

And don't accuse others who have worked their butts off for the newly defunct 50 state plan. Don't accuse us of anything.

Don't you dare.

[CAcyclist]

143. Everything you say is true, however, Dean is "my guy" not Obama

even though I , of course, voted for Obama and sent him money during the national election. The silver lining in having Hillary lose was that Dean stayed on as DNC chair. If I have to choose sides, I choose Dean.

[NeedleCast]

146. Cheers to You

Excellent Post

:toast:

[madfloridian]

154. I think we need to address these so-called "leaks" as to what they really are.

And I think we need to put "them" on the defensive....not sit back and be in denial about all of it.

These statements on Dean were leaked by Obama's staff, and he needs to attend to it pronto.

They are pre-emptive and meant to harm him.

Sorry, but those are the facts.

[Seldona]

200. I agree.

Posted in another thread earlier about threads like these that I hadn't seen much of this sort of thing around. Well here it is. I was wrong.

I have to agree this is making something out of nothing. Until I hear from Chairman Dean that the Democratic Party has thrown him under the bus I won't be believing otherwise.

It's too bad he apparently wants to give up the gavel. He is brilliant where he is imo.

[truedelphi]

115. However, in a news article (Probably written by one of the wire bureaus)

The San Fracisco Chronnicle pointed out that Obama is determining just how best to use the new media (ie, internet, texting, etc) and how to best employ his huge donor and volunteer list to keep the issues he's got close to him in the minds of his supporters.

The article ended with these delicious words:

Such free wheeling use of new technology carries certain risks as Obama discovered last summer.

As he signaled that he would vote in the Senate for a sweeping surveillance intelligence law reviled by liberal activists, thousands of supporters jammed his campaign web site with their outrage, a phenomenon that could easily be repeated when he becomes President Obama.

[Cleita]

77. Get a life.

I have been borderline Green since way before Bush got selected. I'm really getting old and time isn't in my favor.

[TheWraith]

94. This isn't GreenUnderground, and frankly I'd expect what you describe to work the opposite way.

It's usually the young who are willing to completely waste their energy instead of getting something meaningful done. Because that's what the Green Party is. There's never going to be a Green Party president, and the odds are ten thousand to one against there being a Green Party senator or even a congressman. But we CAN elect progressive Democrats who will actually get things done in Washington, as long as we don't sacrifice "good" on the altar of perfection.

I'm sorry if I come off as harsh in tone, but I'm sure if you've spent much time around here you know there's literally a non-stop torrent of people having fits over this or that minor issue, stamping their feet and declaring their intent to leave the party over X or Y. It absolutely drives me crazy. People wonder why the left-wing base doesn't get catered to the way the right does. It's because most of us are impossible to please. We've got a million different "right ways" to do things, and if a politician doesn't follow exactly our personal one, it's off to the races. So because we're finicky, people think they have to run to the center to get elected. The sad part is it's usually true.

Well, I'm not old, but I do want to make sure something gets done during my lifetime. That's why I'm a Democrat.

[prostock69]

116. Agree.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Cleita]

126. Yeah, me too...

...trying to get something done in my lifetime and I've been trying to do that for forty years. During that time the Democrats have been taking things back wards instead of for wards. It's time for change for me. But carry on anyway. One always needs to follow one's conscience and registering with the Green Party for me means that I will still be voting for Democrats most of the time except when the Democrats don't run a candidate against a Republican like they do all the time in my county. Don't tell me to get involved. I am involved in the local Democratic Party clubs and mostly I'm treated like an alien because of my progressive beliefs.

[depakid]

163. Oh, I think the chances are pretty good that there'll be a Green Party President one day

Neither of the two major parties are going to be looking very good to folks in the next decade or two as the consequences of Peak Oil and climate change set in.

People who think we have a financial crisis now, wait and see what happens when petrol is $10 to $15 per gallon...

[Le Taz Hot]

201. Ah, the "there's never going to be a third party"

meme. In my lifetime I have heard the following:

"There will never be a Black president."
"There will never be a woman president." (we're closer than ever)
"The South will never be desegregated."
"It's a waste of time for the Democrats to set up headquarters in all 50 states."
"Senators are not elected president."

Here's a couple of predictions for you:
-Within 10 years the nutso fundies will split from the Republican party, forming their own Evangelical Party that will be EXTREMELY viable but not enough to win the presidency. Likewise, the Republican party will be significantly weakened so that it also will not have enough to win the White House.
-Within 10 years after that, the MILLIONS that have been disenfranchised by the corporate wing of the Democratic party will have gained enough momentum to seriously threaten the core of the Democratic party. These include old-time Democrats, environmentalists, Progressives and Greens, among others.

So, keep referring to those who choose not to goose-step to the corpro-dem party line as "finicky," "throwing fits," referring to our issues as "minor issues," wanting to be "catered to," "stamping their feet," and "impossible to please." And that's just in YOUR post.

I would like to remind you that it was only 8 years ago that the Republicans swore that they had a permanent majority and that the Democratic party was dead. Now they're experiencing a deep schism because a HUGE section of their party was marginalized. If you don't think the Democrats aren't in danger of repeating the EXACT same mistakes, you're not paying attention.

[cali]

81. Howard is NOT a progressive. I love the guy. I think he would have made

a very good Sec of HHS, but he's not and never was a progressive.

[Cleita]

82. Sigh.

I know that but, he himself said when he was running for President that the middle had moved so far to the right that it made him look progressive. We know that. I'm one of those progressives who would look really conservative in Sweden and other places. Get over it. We need his knowledge in this field.

[McCamy Taylor]

180. Obama is not a progressive either. He is a centrist Dem. That is why he is drafting Republicans.

It is perfectly alright to say "Every decision Obama makes is the right decision." Since he has not even been in office yet, no one will fault you for asking that he be allowed to do things his way.

Just please do not make up silly excuses.

[SteveM]

191. Has done so since his Harvard Law Review days. (nt)

[Guaranteed]

97. "The straw"? Are you shitting us?

Obama just wins the election and you're talking about straws- NOW. Brilliant.

And it's because Dean- who I was hoping would get this position- didn't get the position. That's all it takes.

[Cleita]

132. If you don't know what the straw means, let me inform you.

The straw is the tiny thing that is the last straw over an aggregate of things that piss you off, that finally breaks the camels back. Obama was not my first candidate, but he was the one who won stating that he was going to try to unite everyone. So far all I have seen is a bunch of DLCers and smelly Republican types being mentioned for his administration. It would seem that a few progressives on the far left would be part of the mix. But I don't even get a sniff of a Bernie Sanders or Dennis Kucinich being mentioned. Howard is hardly far left, but apparently he's too much so for the Republican Lite DLCers. Take a hard look at what is going on.

[Alter Ego]

106. Dear God, do you REALLY think that the 50-state strategy is kaput

just because its architect is no longer head of the DNC????

It won us two election cycles! There is no conceivable way that the strategy will be abandoned. And yes--you're overreacting.

[madfloridian]

107. Yes, I think it is.

So do many of the state staffers.

[Alter Ego]

114. Then you're all kinds of crazy.

No way the 50-state strategy goes away. It's a winner--it's proven. Twice over.

[madfloridian]

119. Yes, I frequently get called "all kinds of crazy".

[dflprincess]

127. Tell that to Rahm Emmanuel

he's never liked the 50 state strategey.

[Alter Ego]

128. Goddamnit, Rahm is the chief of staff.

He is an advisor to the President and the enforcer of the President's agenda. He does what the President fucking wants. If Obama tells Rahm to stand on his head and spit nickels, his response is "American or Canadian nickels, Mr. President?"

Just because Rahm does not like Dean does not mean he cannot admit that Dean's strategy has worked wonders--and even if he didn't like it, he is disinclined to change it, because Rahm likes to win--and the 50-state strategy is a winner.

[dflprincess]

141. "It is worth noting, however, that the 50 state strategy's biggest opponent, for years has been

Rahm Emanuel. Rahm's new job? Chief of Staff. Wonder if Obama's ok with this?"

http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/50-state-strategy-being-killed-by-letting-the-organizers-go/

I seem to recall Emanauel claiming it was his efforts, not Dean's strategey that led to gains in 2006 and didn't he try to get Dean ousted as DNC chair?

I didn't expect much from Obama, but I really didn't think he'd turn his administration into DLC central.

[bertman]

111. It sounds like you are suggesting that there is no place for Dean in an Obama administration.

That seems like a rush to judgment.

Surely there are other positions that Dean might fill that would be a good fit for someone with his skills and tenacity.

I'm not going to freak out unless he is cut out of any meaningful position in the Democratic hierarchy (broadly speaking, of course).

Maybe it would also be worthwhile to consider that Howard Dean may have other plans and job preferences that HE has not divulged.

I will go out on a limb here and say that I find it very hard to believe that President-elect Obama would toss Howard Dean out like yesterday's newspaper.

[leftchick]

153. it has become very apparent

and just as I feared, there is no longer room for progressive representation in the party. Those that remain will be marginalized like Kucinich and it will be business as usual in the Corporate controlled "democratic" party.

What they have done to Dean is shameful, but then that would be Rahm.

:puke:

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. I'm waiting until I hear an official announcement. And even so, do we know

if that was something the Gov wanted to do anyway?

[madfloridian]

4. What the hell ever.

Wait for your official announcement over this. Wait for the official announcement over the 50 state strategy ending.

Just keep waiting as the ones who wanted party change are pushed out.

[GreenPartyVoter]

13. Right, let me just wield my extraordinary power and clout as a non-Democrat and

I'll make things right. Of course they shouldn't give up the 50 state strategy because it is brilliant and worked so well. Do we know for sure they won't be using it again in '10?

Now, back to my original reply which had zero to do with the 50 state business, I prefer to wait for the official announcement on Dean and HHS simply because I don't trust leaks and "sources." And I do think it is relevant to know whether or not the Governor even wants the position. If you have a quote from him saying he does, then I will cross my fingers all the harder for him.

[madfloridian]

15. I told you I did not know. That was not my point.

Whatever goes on now will be accepted, even making sure no voices are heard who stand up for things that matter.

[GreenPartyVoter]

17. If you have a plan in mind, I am all ears. Dean and his team deserve better.

[madfloridian]

23. I don't feel enough a part of things anymore to have a plan.

The insiders have the plan now.

I really have no idea what to do. People jumped on me when I said not one Dem leader had said his name. They jumped when I said the 50 state plan was being ended.

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. No, you are definitely right. Dean and what he has wrought have been swept under the rug. But I am

just as lost as you are when it comes to how to fix it. :hug:

[rucognizant]

189. Maybe ..........

He feels he's achieved his goal? He ran for Pres. to "Take Back AMerica". DIdn't win the office, but then became head of the DNC, formed the 50 states plan, and SUCCEEDED in getting a majority of Democrats in WASH.
He has a wife in Burlington VT who runs her own practice......maybe he would just like to home and live with her for a change? He's not the kind of guy to suffer the social life of DC gladly.He certainly doesn't need "position" for ego gratification.

[Mojambo]

3. Maybe when Leahy retires Dean can make a run for Senate.

Shame about HHS.

He's clearly overwhelmingly qualified.

[cobalt1999]

5. In Obama's defense...

Getting good legislation actually passed is better than having great legislation stalled in Congress.

[madfloridian]

14. You are assuming a lot with that statement.

Doesn't matter. DU has turned into the place that we can not even question what we see with our own eyes without being attacked.

They are not going to let Dean anywhere near the party processes now. You can bank on it.

[cobalt1999]

16. Well, if this quote is true...

"But the chief attributes President-elect Barack Obama is seeking in his HHS secretary will be an ability to work with members of Congress and shepherd reform legislation through the House and Senate."

I'm not making much of an assumption.

If Obama doesn't feel Dean is the most effective as getting legislation passed, then Dean is locked out.

[madfloridian]

21. Yes, that is what I said. Chewed up and spit out.

.

[Cleita]

7. Remember when the DNC chair was about to be filled?

We all wrote to them and said that we wouldn't contribute one cent to them ever again if Howard Dean wasn't given it. It worked. Maybe a letter to Obama stating that now that he got our money and our vote for four years, it might be different in 2012 if Howard Dean isn't given the Health and Human Services position.

[madfloridian]

19. The major bloggers now are affiliated with Rosenberg and the NDN

They are not going to speak up that much anymore.

I just don't think we should be in denial.

[Leopolds Ghost]

190. The major bloggers are rich pricks.

What did you expect? I saw this coming back when they FORMED their partisan love-fest / marketing websites.

And now what I said 8 years ago, and again 2 years ago is revealed to be true.

It'll be sad if DU goes down that road but you can already see the paid political operatives -- and the center-rightists who were promised sanctuary if Obama wins -- trickling in here.

[depakid]

8. Would Dean have even wanted that job?

I kind of doubt it. There are going to be plenty of much more attractive offers out there than cleaning up that mess (while having to deal with Rahm Emmanual in the process).

[madfloridian]

10. I have no idea, that is not my point. Insiders are leaking now.

[depakid]

26. I guess I didn't expect to see meaningful healthcare reform in the first place

Wrote that one off last winter, so color me unsurprised by this.

[madfloridian]

9. I can see this turning already into total repudiation of what I am saying.

I still have the bruises from the other night.

The insiders have taken back their party, and it is getting pretty obvious.

Those talking points given out to the media are NOT accidental.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/3056

I don't care if he gets a post or not. That is not the point. There is a message being sent. We need to see it. Not about Dean, about all of us who helped and worked so hard.

They are changing from bottom up growth to top down control, right before our eyes.

[Jack Sprat]

20. Unfortunately,

there are very few pleasant surprises anymore. Just constant reruns.

[madfloridian]

91. Lieberman stands with the GOP, so he can be chairman of HS.

Dean stands with the Democrats, so he can't be in the cabinet.

Makes really good sense.

[snappyturtle]

144. I've read the responses down to this point. I agree with what you have said.

What doesn't make sense is that Dean is more than qualified to head HHS. PERIOD. Now, the upper eschelons of the party are saying he's not a candidate because he lacks congressional experience. I thought that's why PE Obama appointed bulldog Rahm and with the Democratic majority in both houses why can't healthcare get passed? Stupid. How many heads of departments have congressional experience anyway? For once I had hopes with Dean at the head of HHS we'd get decent healthcare passed. It's like Dean's experience as governor and getting healthcare in VT is nothing.

I also have no doubt this "leak" is planned. We had no leaks during an abnormally long campaign and now we've had two in two days. Regretable.

[madfloridian]

145. I agree. It is a dangerous pre-emptive leak....meant to harm Dean.

It should not be happening.

It was spoon-fed to the media via Jeanne Cummings....and done for a reason.

[suzie]

148. Politics is not a contact sport like football.

It's a blood sport, like cockfighting. If you can't accept that, perhaps you should step away from it for awhile.

Obama's campaign organization was built on the Dean model. But, it was Obama's campaign that won this election, not the various state parties. They won it by grassroots organizing and contesting all kinds of states. Why would they step away from that model now?

I don't know about many other state Democratic parties, but the Florida one seems pretty much chock full of folks who date back to the Clinton administration. Obama has a whole ton of new staffers and new volunteers who will be looking for places to go. Don't you think that his campaign deserves to fill the ranks of the state parties with some of the younger folks who worked 18 hours a day trying to turn out the vote?

Howard Dean hasn't been in Congress and health care reform is incredibly complicated. And lots of people who are just ordinary Democrats out there don't like Dean--which makes him not a great spokesman for making health care reform happen. I think they're wrong in not liking Dean, but that's just the way it is.

Getting legislation passed is tricky stuff and as several have said, it requires an insider. Dean is not.

The way Washington, DC works is that an outgoing administration tries to insert as many of its people into the bureaucracy as possible. They often try to stymie the way things get done in the new administration. Do you doubt that Bush-Cheney did that as much as possible during the past 8 years.

Which means that whoever takes over in many departments has to have some depth of staffers to come along with them to get started taking back the bureaucracy. A Howard Dean probably has fewer of those people than a Daschle or whomever else is on the list. Let us not be fooled that bureaucrats who came in as Bush-Cheney-Rove loyalists won't be trying to submarine the process of governing whenever they can.

Dean would seem to be a great person to be Surgeon General or FDA head.

And he and Obama may have some personal thing that went on between them. That happens in politics, as in the rest of life.

[madfloridian]

158. The FL party is in real trouble now because of "insiders" pulling rank

Sometimes it just becomes like the good old boys network, which you appear to be advocating to get things done.

Sure, it's easier but is it the right way to leak ugly stuff about someone who worked so hard for the party?

That said, I thought I was voting for change.

[suzie]

171. Politics is about winning elections

Leaking that Howard Dean won't be Secretary of HHS is hardly 'ugly stuff'.

What I'm simply saying is that when a campaign wins an election, their people often take over the reigns of power. That's what winning means.

As far I can see, many of the Florida Democratic Party people have not been focused on winning elections for a long time, simply playing intra-party politics among themselves.

The Obama Campaign is one of the most disciplined in Democratic history. The Florida Democratic Party seems to have a reputation, even among state political parties, for being the opposite. Why would the Obama Campaign want to hold onto people who came out of the craziness that has been the Florida Democratic Party?

Personally, I have no idea what the relationship is between Dean and Obama. I liked what I saw of Dean. I like what I see of Obama. I don't know that 'change' means that Dean has to serve in an Obama administration. Or, that rumors about who'll be Secretary of HHS means that he won't.

[madfloridian]

173. Yes, it is.

It is all about winning.

It is "ugly stuff" to leak those statements about him once again just as we have won big time.

SO.. I do really think it is about more than just winning. It is about who is important enough AFTER the win.

It is about what to do with all those grassroots netroots that arose in large part with the Dean campaign.

I don't know what you are referring to about Florida and the Obama campaign?

I don't get the connection.

I do get that it is just like it was after 2006. This is the coup that failed then.

It's working this time apparently.

[suzie]

199. What coup?

Obama won the election with the great assistance of his campaign, which as far as I could see involved huge amounts of grassroots political organizing.

So, a person with close ties to Obama will likely be the next chair of the DNC, as usually happens when your party actually wins an election.

That is not a coup--that's simply appointing the winner's people. And it happens at every level of politics--what's so unusual about that?

Howard Dean is an admirable guy, he had an admirable strategy. He's someone I liked and voted for.

He also presided over a very divided primary season, which means that a whole part of the Democratic Party probably doesn't have positive feelings toward him. Which may not make him the best person to preside over the party going forward.

That doesn't mean that what he's done isn't appreciated. It also doesn't mean that Howard Dean doesn't understand that--he is after all a politician. Maybe a more forward-looking one than some, but still a politician.

[alarimer]

11. This is sad.

Apparently the DINOS are in control. Dean won this for Democrats, so they not get that? Anyway, I no longer consider myself a Democrat because of stuff like this. Not that I will become a Republican or anything but still, I can't stand what they are doing to a good guy like Dean. Hopefully this will piss off the blogosphere. Those bloggers can really organize when they want to (like the did for Dean and Obama). I am sure they will have to listen.

[fascisthunter]

12. After Dean's Success, This is How He is Treated

this is once again another example of someone who gives a shit about the people being shut down in the Democratic Party because of corporately owned democrats. Theirs your DLC in a nutshell. It's why the DLC is so despised.... not only are they backstabbers, but their are an impediment to our efforts to change this government.

[Freddie Stubbs]

85. Voters elected Obama to bring change, not to reward party insiders

[Sebastian Doyle]

18. Those Delusional Lying Corporatists did not win this election

Their candidate lost the primary. They do not get to claim the victory. This shit needs to stop NOW.

[Ichingcarpenter]

22. Why is there no author of the article? I usually don't trust something where

the author won't put their name on it. I'll wait on this story

Aren't you suspicious when someone won't pen a news article?
There is a lot of speculating right now from news agencies.

[madfloridian]

25. That is your decision. The word is being sent out through Politico and the NYT

I posted about it above.

You can decide to believe it or not.

[Ichingcarpenter]

31. I can't find your NY times link?

Leaks, test balloons and who pens the articles make a difference to me.

Yes, it will stink if they shut Dean out of any cabinet office and I will be pissed.

[madfloridian]

34. Here.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/3056

[Ichingcarpenter]

35. Well, I didn't see that he is out in that article

I think you put to much into Rahm's influence and power over OBAMA.

I've seen many articles before on Politico that were false and un-authored.

I'll still wait. Don't give up hope.

[madfloridian]

36. I did NOT say that at all. Nowhere near that in that post.

I did not even begin to say that.

I said the insiders were leaking talking points to diminish Dean's contributions so the party, and they are.

It matters to me when they do that. We have worked hard for the party for over 5 years.

His name has not been mentioned by a single Dem leader since the election. Memos are going out to make sure he knows to stay in his place.

Which right now is nowhere.

[Cronopio]

122. Patience, grasshopper. :)

Dean was slimed much worse by his own during the 2004 election and was trash talked by all sides when he was being considered for DNC chairman. It didn't stop him then.

He has a lot more political capital to spend these days. Wait and see.

Although, if he does get thrown overboard it will be a serious statement against Obama's judgement. Obama needs as many people like Dean he can get, and they're few and far between.

[IndianaJones]

27. ever cross your mind that the President elect does not like Dean? nt.

[clear eye]

84. After Dean helped engineer large Dem majorites in Congress

the last two elections, even Obama doesn't have the luxury of disliking him.

[dailykoff]

28. If we wanted a GOP lite White House, we would have nominated Clinton.

We didn't. We backed the guy Caroline, Teddy and Kerry backed. Why is Obama having so much trouble grasping this? :shrug:


oops Freudian slip there..

[cobalt1999]

29. During the primaries, people said there was no difference between Clinton & Obama

Why are they surprised now?

[dailykoff]

32. Well, there was, and that's why he won.

But as soon as he did he started acting like he hadn't. I am truly perplexed by his transformation.

[madfloridian]

37. Because of who is surrounding him as he heads into the WH bubble.

Dean allowed our voices to be heard, and gave us a chance to see inner party workings.

The insiders have taken their party back. Carville has his smoke-filled rooms back.

[dailykoff]

92. Why he's letting himself get streamrolled by the Clinton crowd is beyond me.

So far he's ticked off the Arabs twice, first by appointing Rahm and then when Rahm's father opened his yob, he's utterly embarrassed himself with this Hillary "leak," and he's not even been the PE for two weeks.

Not good.

[madfloridian]

30. I was right when I said this.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/3056

This was the first attempt to make it sound like Dean had no legacy in the party. Time to wake up, they are diminishing his accomplishments already. And ours who worked to build the party in the 50 states. It started in 2005, and we were in on the ground floor.

And we may be out now if the insiders keep leaking.

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

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[madfloridian]

38. My thoughts tonight....for 5 years we worked and cared.

Because someone acted like we on the outside of DC mattered.

Now I just feel discouraged, like there was never anything we did that mattered.

The enthusiasm is gone.

Someone said I was acting like a downer...Maybe so.

But I see who is taking over now in DC, and it does not seem to be who we thought it was.

I'm tired, we have done enough only to find the same old same old is back.

[alarimer]

88. I feel the same way.

It's just the same old political crap it's always been. All that change talk is really just so much bullshit. I've always thought so. I voted for him but only because the alternative was worse.

In a few months or a year, there will be a lot of very disillusioned people out there. All politicians are pretty much alike. They talk a good game (some of them are better at it than others) but it really comes down to the same old DC bullshit. Never, ever put blind faith in any politician.

[Pastiche423]

39. Dean is NOT a DLCer

So, of course he's not acceptable to the new admin that is quickly shaping up to be repuke lite.

The coporatist DLC doesn't give a fuck about our country, nor its people. Winning (for themselves), anyway they can is their motto.


Dean worked his ass off to make it possible for Obama to win. But now that OPbama has appointed the scum, rahm, Dean is being thrown overboard.

My disappointment w/what to expect after January grows Every Single Day.

[Individualist]

46. Hear, hear!

You're 100% right.

[Pastiche423]

68. I am right and it makes me sick ;-(

It is always good seeing you!

[JDPriestly]

181. I'm waiting for Obama to appoint one person who is not DLC or Republican

to his administration. So far, I haven't seen him do that. I was an Edwards supporter, but moved to support Obama and even went out of state at my own and my family's expense to help him. I won't make that mistake again if he doesn't appoint some real Democrats to top positions and soon. I'm pretty good at talking to people. I'm valuable to a campaign in my small way. Obama will not get a second term without people like me. He cannot rely on those DLCers and Republicans. They are back-stabbers. He had better remember his base. The Democrats do have a base, contrary to to Rahm Emmanuel's opinion. The base just isn't what Rahm wishes it were. Sorry, Rahm. We are here, and we side far more with Kucinich than with you.

[Pastiche423]

192. Very well said

I feel the same way. His 1st appointment blew whatever hope I felt on November 4, right out the door.

[madfloridian]

40. Good idea I have.. Look for those who have never stood up to Republicans..

and put them in the cabinet positions.

That's the way to go if you don't want any differences.

I am just disappointed...not so much that he did not get that post....but that they are sending out memos to the press negating what he has done for the party.

Sad.

[JDPriestly]

41. How ungrateful! Dean turned our party around, and this is the way

he is rewarded. Shame on Obama and Rahm Emmanuel and anyone involved in this decision.

What did we work for? To have a Democratic administration. And now we are being told that a true 100% Democrat is too partisan. Well, if Dean is too partisan, then so am I.

I thought the Democratic Party was supposed to be a big tent. Is Obama changing that? Is it now only for folks who are bipartisan enough for Obama? As a life-long Democrat, I feel shut out. I'm not happy about this.

[madfloridian]

42. You made my point better than I did.

"What did we work for? To have a Democratic administration. And now we are being told that a true 100% Democrat is too partisan. Well, if Dean is too partisan, then so am I."

[Ichingcarpenter]

43. So you bought this whole story from Politico?

I haven't yet.

[madfloridian]

44. Yes.

I would like them to be proved wrong but I doubt they will.

As I said above, the memos are going out quickly now to diminish Dean's role in the party.

Why are they doing that?

[Ichingcarpenter]

48. Dean has enemies but I really haven't seen it coming

from the Obama camp, Rahm excluded, friend you have
been wrong before a few times, let's hope its one of those times.

Believe me, I will make a stink if Dean is totally shut out.
But let's not jump the gun yet.

I know your concern, but from my sources I have
I'm seeing something else going on. The DLC
have a better propaganda arm to the media than Dean.

Don't believe all the hype, its a party infighting tactic and
also a media concoction to also promote division.

I'm vigilant and am an ally on your concern.

I hope I 'TALKED YOU DOWN' a little.....LOL

[rch35]

45. I don't know you personally, but it sounds like you probably ARE too partisan. nt

[madfloridian]

49. Then so am I. Color me partisan if we try to become Republicans.

There are enough good Dems to fill every position, and they do not need to talk down one of our own this way.

I am becoming more partisan daily, where I wasn't that much before. Most of my family are Republicans.

[rch35]

50. its not a bad thing, youd be great in the HoR, but there is a different temperament needed for

things like negotiating very controversial legislation

[madfloridian]

52. Yes, not ever offending Republicans.

That's the temperament they appear to want, I disagree completely.

[rch35]

54. Dean stirs up very strong feelings with Republicans, and they dislike him quite a bit

which means that he wouldn't necessarily be good at negotiating this legislation with them. if they find someone with similar views that isn't seen as so partisan, they would have sturdier ground and more leverage.

[madfloridian]

55. So he is shut out because he stood up to them. That is just what I said.

That is the direction we are going. Last I heard we were getting a good majority in congress. But then we would not want to put someone in that the Republicans didn't like.

This place is becoming an echo chamber agreeing with everything that goes against what we have tried to fix about our party for years.

That's a shame.

We want someone the Republicans like. Ah, the irony.

[rch35]

59. stop twisting my words. im not saying get someone the republicans like, i am saying

get someone that they don't hate, because then he or she can use them to his/her own advantage. Shit, it is the same argument used against Hillary for the Democratic Candidate. She had huge unfavorable ratings with Republicans, Obama didn't. It wasn't a repudiation of her policies or her work, it was rather just an argument that someone else with incredibly similar policy positions would work better in the position because the other side didn't hate them so much.

[madfloridian]

60. Those are the words in the article I posted.

That is what they are sending out to the media about Dean.

[rch35]

66. yes. i know. thats what we have been talking about.

and i am saying that it is a good argument, even if you don't agree with it.

I don't even necessarily agree with their decision, but they do have a viable argument for why they did not choose him. But remember, just because they don't choose Dean doesn't mean they won't get anyone good for the position.

[madfloridian]

70. I don't give a damn if he got it. That's not the point. Good Lord...

Don't people here see that they are terrified to put anyone anywhere that the Republicans don't like?

What the hell is going on here at DU that is ok that Dean is out, but Lieberman is loudly embraced.

Never mind. Doesn't matter.

[Cronopio]

118. "... he wouldn't necessarily be good at negotiating this legislation with them."

There are many different styles of negotiation. I think Howard Dean would be a great negotiator.

And wasn't Rahm's ability to be a hardass to the opposition supposed to be his selling point? Let's get our standards in sync.

[madfloridian]

123. You got it!! It's good for Rahm to be an a**hole...bad for Dean to be partisan.

Amazing, ain't it.

[rch35]

169. That is Rahms ability, and Rahm isn't a negotiator, he is an enforcer

you have different standards for different jobs.

[JDPriestly]

183. I think that folks in the Obama campaign and Rahm are jealous of Dean.

Dean has quite a loyal following and did a top-notch job. Obama and Rahm fear him. That is why they want him out. Shame on them. Double shame on them.

[Cronopio]

193. That's it. Don't know about Obama, but I'm sure that Rahm knows he's outclassed by Dean.

Rahm was wrong about how to gain the Presidency in 2004 and was wrong about NAFTA, and on some level Rahm knows it.

[Cronopio]

194. Dean is both. Exhibit A ...

http://men.style.com/gq/features/full?id=content_5251&pageNum=5

"The “shit” Carville was referring to was the long-running feud between Rahm and Dean, which boiled down to Rahm’s wanting Dean to give him more money—a lot more—and Dean’s refusing to do it. Normally, the chairman of the DNC is installed by party leaders, but after the Democrats’ 2004 debacle, there were no party leaders, and Dean won the chairmanship by winning over the anonymous state-party chairs and much neglected members of the DNC, the folks who actually vote on the matter. The state parties became his base of support, and Dean promised them two things: more money and more power.

It drove Rahm and Carville nuts. “The thing that stuns me,” Carville says, “is that this is supposed to be a rigged deal—chairman of the party! The congressional leadership, the fund-raisers, people like that are supposed to decide. You are supposed to get a call and are told who to vote for! You’re not supposed to really vote on this shit!”

Dean kept his promise and began shoveling money to the state parties—what he described as the “fifty-state strategy”—without regard to whether individual states had competitive races in 2006. The strategy enraged Rahm, and in May he and Senator Chuck Schumer, who ran the Senate campaigns, met with Dean at the DNC to try once again to squeeze cash out of him. The conversation descended into a bitter argument about how Dean was pissing away money, and Rahm, late for a vote in the House, reportedly stormed out of the room in a cloud of profanities.

Rahm had only one more option for pressuring Dean: start leaking to the press. A senior aide to Rahm says Rahm believed that if there were enough newspaper accounts filled with details about how Dean’s stinginess was going to cost Democrats the House, Dean would have to cave. But the stories came and went, and Dean held firm. “What I think Rahm didn’t recognize,” Dean’s aide says, “was that’s exactly the wrong way to move Dean.” In the end, Rahm—or rather his staff¬, because at this point he refused to talk to Dean—had to go crawling back to the DNC chairman and accept Dean’s offer of $2.4 million. Even worse, Dean refused to give the money directly to Rahm. “Governor Dean had concerns that Rahm was going to spend it all on TV,” Dean’s aide says. Instead, it would be funneled through the state parties.

With a month left in the campaign, I ask one of Rahm’s top aides about Dean, and she explodes. “He’s so frustrating. I just don’t like him, anyway. I haven’t liked him from the beginning. It’s totally bizarre dealing with him.

She goes on, “It’s not just that we only got $2.4 million, but we’re also supposed to not say mean things about Howard Dean. And Rahm’s supposed to act like everything’s wonderful.” After the showdown in May, the two men didn’t speak until election night.

The division was not only tactical but also ideological. Since 2004 the Democratic party has divided into two warring camps, the Deaniacs and the Clintonites. On one side are Dean, the state parties, various liberal bloggers, and antiwar activists. They see the Clinton years as a wasted era in which party institutions withered and a White House obsessively focused on winning the next news cycle sold out the traditional values of the Democratic Party and ultimately delivered Congress to the Republicans. On the other side are Rahm and the Clintonites, who strongly believe that the only future for the party is to hew to the ideological middle and are bewildered that the Clinton legacy, successful both in terms of politics (two presidential wins) and results (peace and prosperity), is being second-guessed by their own side."


Dean dealt effectively with Rahm's tactics, which is why Rahm hates his guts.

[JDPriestly]

182. Everything you said about Dean, rch35, is even more true of Rahm Emmanuel

yet Obama did not hesitate to name Rahm Emmanuel with his reputation for using expletives when angry, etc. to one of the highest positions in his administration. Obama had better not doublecross the people who supported him, not Hillary. Personally, I was an Edwards supporter, but worked hard and made sacrifices for Obama. I want representation in his administration. So far, I have none.

Dean did an amazing, outstanding job for the Democratic Party. He deserves to be recognized and rewarded with a place in the Obama administration.

[Sebastian Doyle]

56. I hear ya.

In fact I started a thread on this over in GDP, but one of the From Scouts whined that it was "flamebait" and stirred up shit until it was closed :evilfrown:

The DLC is trying to claim a victory that they LOST in the primaries and steal it for their own ends. The very future of this country is at stake, and 'Puke light isn't going to cut it this time.

[elleng]

197. 'Reasons' sound reasonable to me;

Hill experience necessary for such a position, imo. I hope (and expect) that Rahm's personal likes/dislikes won't effect O's decisions; he's TOO SMART for that, and just about said so.

[crispini]

47. I hope Dean will not be marginalized. :(

[Connie_Corleone]

57. So far, "sources" have been wrong about everything during the transition.

I'll wait for official announcements from Obama's team.

[madfloridian]

58. Actually several times the sources were said to be wrong.

Then it turned out they were right.

I would like the sources to be wrong, but I rather doubt it.

[Connie_Corleone]

61. Seems to me you actually hope the "sources" are right so you can keep posting threads like this.

Whatever gets you through the day.

[madfloridian]

63. I am worried. Sincerely so. For the direction we go in now. Make fun...

Do what you have to do. I was attacked so viciously the other night, then called a martyr if I pointed it out.

They are saying that someone who stood up to Republicans can not be part of the administration.

If you don't see something wrong with that, it surprises me.

[Ichingcarpenter]

65. You really need to move out of Florida

Come out West we have an ocean too and no red tide!

[unkachuck]

62. another....

....slap in the face of the Good Doctor; a man who has done us nothing but good....

[madfloridian]

64. Like your picture of "we have no base" emanuel.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/3042

I am so tired of working so hard and being put down at every turn.

[unkachuck]

75. thank you, rahmbone is cute, isn't he?.....

....I honestly believe that this 'love thy repug' crap won't produce anything meaningful, the repugs won't let it - it's not in their long-term interest to have Dems succeeds at anything....

....so we'll either end up with repug-lite appeasers producing bland legislation and policy or we'll once again be bullshitted into believing 'it can't be done'....remember, in two years, there will be no more excuses....

....the Good Doctor 'will be back in shortly'....it takes a smart, strong, fighter to get things done....

[Le Taz Hot]

69. Gotta just LOVE that Rahm!

Dean out as HHS and now HRC for SOS. We DID have primaries didn't we? Didn't we?

[madfloridian]

71. BUT Lieberman is warmly embraced after all. And DUers are slamming me for griping?

All makes sense, doesn't it.

[Le Taz Hot]

74. MF, hon,

ignore the bullies and continue to do what you do. It's called oversight and it's what patriotic independent-thinking Americans do. :hug:

[madfloridian]

76. Thanks,. Bullying is what it is. Lieberman in, Dean out. Don't you love it?

And it's all my fault for complaining.

[madfloridian]

73. So now I am an ideological purist for supporting someone is not ideological at all.

And now Lieberman remains beloved by the party.

And no one sees anything wrong with that picture?

[madfloridian]

78. Jeanne Cummings wrote the Politico article.

She's pretty trustworthy, more than most. Has some ears on the inside.

At least we still have Lieberman

[madfloridian]

79. Dean out, Lieberman loved and embraced.

That says it all to me.

[madfloridian]

80. Hubby and I have decided we are just plain stupid to have thought we mattered.

We really did think we could bring some change, that if we donated to DFA candidates, local candidates, and to the DNC that it mattered.

A lot of us felt that way back then. But we did not change anything at all.

We really did not. The same culture is in DC, the Dems have the big money on their side now...and they only needed us for the votes.

Now they are courting Lieberman to stay and kicking one who did so much for the party out the side door.

We were just plain stupid.

[Clintonista2]

86. Let me guess- this leak came from Clinton?

According to DU all leaks come from Clinton. :eyes:

[JI7]

87. i'm not sure i believe this

[madfloridian]

89. Jeanne Cummings is pretty reliable.

I remember she once apologized and corrected an article about the something about DFA. The lady that was press person then called her, and she had been given wrong info and apologized.

But this article is very detailed, and it lays out every single gripe about Dean from the inside of the Obama campaign

This is really bad, and very divisive. Leak or not, I do believe it with Rahm and Gibbs so close to the top.

[madfloridian]

90. Wow, Obama staffers are even blaming him because....

Obama at the last minute decided to switch to Invesco Field. There's a whole story behind that. The Denver committee was absolutely struggling to get enough money, and then the campaign came with this. They were in panic at first but the handled it well.

Shame on whoever on Obama's staff is leaking this stuff. This is just ugly.

From the Politico article:

"Additionally, the Democratic National Convention team also raised the ire of some Obama campaign officials this summer after it initially seemed to resist Obama’s plans to deliver his acceptance speech at Invesco Field. It was a complicated and expensive add-on for a host convention committee and the Democratic National Convention Committee organizers and fundraisers already struggling to meet their financial targets.

The unprecedented move from the convention hall to the outdoor football stadium also created numerous legal, logistical and security issues, participants recall. Sorting out those decisions in a relatively short period of time among three separate parties added to the stress and, sometimes, misunderstandings during the planning.

Obama’s team became miffed when convention planners suggested to the news media that the Denver convention would be cut short by a day, a proposal they believed would turn Obama’s Invesco event into a campaign rally — paid for from his coffers — rather than the crowning moment of the party’s extended nomination battle.

In the end, Dean dispatched his executive director to help move the process along and the Invesco speech went off without a hitch.

“I’d be surprised to hear there are lingering doubts and concerns about what he didn’t and did do because it was a very good event,” said a Dean ally."

Desperately dissing a good man who worked four years to rebuild the party. Not to be forgotten by us. This is ridiculous.

They shove Dean out for being a partisan, and they embrace Lieberman who condemned Obama.

I sure was stupid. I thought working hard for your party mattered.

[Eric J in MN]

108. Howard Dean was great in supporting the change to the stadium.

He could have said no.

The anonymous coward is who is bashing Howard Dean in that paragraph must be a slimeball.

[madfloridian]

109. There is no one defending Dean, not even at DU.

The only thing happening now is that if we speak out about the obvious things that are happening....we become the victims.

I don't care about the HHS position, never really thought he would get it anyway....

BUT these are ugly things being leaked.

They are saying that anyone who spoke out against Republicans need not apply. Anyone who was partisan need not apply.

That is sending a terrible message.

This is serious stuff.

[ProfessorG]

96. The guy would have been great!

Howard Dean has always been passionate about health care reform. So he's not a congressman, so what. The real reason he's out is because he and Rahm Emmanuel
are like fire and water. I also think Dean can't be controlled that easily. He's a bit of a loose cannon. I still think he would have been the best choice...a really good guy.
Well we need to get used to this kind of thing. At the end of the day, it's about getting bills passed and so far it's not a filer buster proof majority and some of the
Dems are conservative...so deals will need to be made and I guess there won't be a lot of room for ideologues.

On a lighter note, I caught this video on You Tube the other day and it was silly, wild and pretty damn funny...'Obama Girl's Mama.' Check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA0TTfqFZg8

[DainBramaged]

98. With as tightly run a campaign as Obama ran

does anyone truly believe these sources?

[madfloridian]

103. Yes.

Because now Rahm is CoS, and convenient leaks will happen.

[girl gone mad]

195. I don't think the campaign was run as tightly as everyone claims.

I know this is a popular meme, but I seem to remember several leaks. Biden was the name we heard over and over in the days before the VP announcement. It was leaked that Clinton hadn't even been vetted.

[bklyncowgirl]

99. I'm going to wait until the official announcement before I get my tizzy in an uproar

I'd like to see a good spot in the new government for Dean but Obama has the right to go with whoever he thinks will work for him.

[Romulox]

100. Liberalism is dead; the Corprocrats are ascendant. nt

[Liberal Dose]

101. Right now it's all about "Sources say" or "Some people are saying"...

Well, as Howard Dean would say, "Where are these so-called sources getting their information and why are they being given any credibility at all when they can't even reveal themselves to back up their statements? Enough with this vagueness."

[madfloridian]

102. Sure.

That's all it is. Sure.

[WI_DEM]

104. Why don't we just wait and see who is appointed to what rather than follow rumors?

[madfloridian]

105. My point IS the talking points going out.

My point is not who gets what...but how it is being waged.

I hope Dean starts speaking out now.

He should.

We loves our Lieberman though.

[madfloridian]

110. Message to all partisan Democrats...

Step away from the keyboard and embrace Joe Lieberman for his reaching across the aisle.

:sarcasm:

Me? I'm still a partisan.

[w4rma]

112. Obama had better start bringing DFA folks into his administration or there is going to be a war.(nt)

[chiefofclarinet]

113. Had Dean wanted the job?

With all the chaos of the media, I can't seem to keep the people that Obama wanted for his Cabinet completely straight. Did Howard Dean want Sec of HHS? Did he also show interest in other positions in Obama's Cabinet?

[madfloridian]

117. Sorry, but I am talking about these "pre-emptive" attacks on him...

if he did or was thinking of it it was pre-empted.

It does not matter to me whether he did or didn't or is or isn't.

The matter is already taken care of because he stood up to Republicans.

Why does that not bother you? That he is accused of being too partisan to be in a Dem administration?

Bothers me.

Hail Joe Lieberman, partisan the other way yet chair of HS

[chiefofclarinet]

121. Hey, get off my case! I'm trying to help you!

I just asked some questions, which you did not completely answer. They were not meant to get you riled up; they were meant to clear up some issues. Personally, I would like to see Dean get something from the administration, since he is stepping down from the DNC, for the work he did as DNC chairman.

I see that you are pissed about the hit piece that Politico sent out. I agree; it reeks of a Republican trying to split Democrats. Unfortunately, it may be working here.

My personal opinion for Cabinet members is to be experts in their respective areas to effectively help President Obama make decisions. And, I think Gov. Dean is more than qualified to be HHS Secretary because he knows about health care from being both a doctor having to deal with the rules and a governor having to deal with health care policy.

I think having contacts in the House and Senate is a bonus, but not a requirement. Dean would work fine with Democratic senators and representatives to get his ideas out on the respective floors. Dean may not be exactly the most liked guy in the eyes of the GOP. But, I doubt any non-Republican could sway them, and I don't trust Republicans with HHS! I think that point in the Politico article is trashy at best.

By the way, I think Lieberman should have the chair yanked from underneath him, and booted off the Homeland Security committee. I didn't like particularly after 2000, and I downright hated that he ran against Lamont in the GE in 2004.

[madfloridian]

124. Thanks, then we mostly agree.

It is the being partisan angle that blew my mind.

I think of Rahm's reputation as an a**hole, and then see the Obama team sending out memos dissing Dean for standing up to Republicans.

[chiefofclarinet]

129. I normally ignore Politico if I can help it

For some of the softer articles, like stuff about Obama and his daughters, I might read the entire article. But, for things like this, I would rather have a more reputable and less partisan source.

[madfloridian]

131. And what would that be? Cummings does/did write for the WP as well.

[chiefofclarinet]

137. My bad, I don't know journalists well

I've read some terrible articles from Politico smearing every Democrat they could get their hands on. So, I'm wary of the group. I keep forgetting that journalists don't always work for just one agency. Thanks for the heads up.

[madfloridian]

142. I agree about Politico. I have seen some real hit pieces from there.

I think she got some talking points meant as a hit piece, but I think it is from insiders.

Might be a good thing, to see what will be coming out now.

[99 Percent Sure]

120. Geez, every rumor, every unnamed 'source' who drops a maybe is cause for obsessive

angst! I guess this takes the place of all the second-guessing and obsessive armchair micro-managing during the campaign season.

Dean didn't remove himself from the DNC Chair for nothing, and Obama isn't going to let him flounder. Remember, Obama moved the DNC to Chicago, so it isn't as if he won't have a hand in choosing who takes over and, as head of the Democratic Part, I doubt if he's going to allow the 50-state strategy to die a slow death, since it was instrumental, in combination with his experience as a community organizer, in getting him the win. There's a place in the Obama WH for Dean, even if it isn't a cabinet seat.

[madfloridian]

125. Jeanne Cummings wrote the Politico article.

She's pretty much right, usually.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15608.html

Her name was not on the original I posted, but when the full version was put up it was there.

[Avalux]

130. WTF? NO leaks from Obama's campaign, now supposedly, eveyone's talking!

I won't believe any of this until I hear an official announcement.

[Gman]

133. Dean is not qualified for the position as the job description is written

he's never sponsored or passed a bill in Congress. IN OTHER WORDS!... Dean's resume doesn't meet the JOB DESCRIPTION!

Pretty clear to me, and I agree with the decision to exclude Dean from HHS. This position will need someone that knows Congress and has worked in Congress.

Maybe Dean should run for Congress.

---------------------

Here's an interesting snip from Politico...

The president-elect already has shown signs of valuing proven competence over longtime loyalty, diversity or interest-group wish lists.

“If you want to avoid an early stumble — and he just can’t afford them, for a million reasons — he’s got to have people who know what they’re doing,” a well-plugged-in Democrat explained.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15625.html

Dean doesn't meet the qualifications. The purists don't seem to care if Obama doesn't succeed. It's all about us, us, us.

[mnhtnbb]

139. Donna Shalala never served in Congress, either. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Gman]

151. Clinton obviously did not require Congressional experience

Obama's now writing the job description and he wants Congressional experience, as is his right to do. That means Dean is not qualified.

[JDPriestly]

184. For either HHS or Surgeon General, experience in medical service delivery

is more important than anything else.

[sasquatch]

134. I'm sorry, but I feel Dean should be chairman until he wants to retire or we wheel him out feet-

first.

[madfloridian]

135. He did just step down.

And the 50 state staffers are laid off.

[sasquatch]

149. Dammit then, we need a new Dean NOW!!

I say he picks his his new replacement and murte al sur if those fuckers think they're going to put some DLC douchebag in charge.

[Deep13]

136. Whoa! Why is he leaving DNC??

He's our best electioneering general. Frankly, that's where we need him. He devised the 50-state solution. He hand-picked Obama. He orchestrated the bluing of red states.

The fact that he does not get along with everyone is a pretty good indication that he was doing his job.

[secretoftheoldclock]

138. Ah, who cares? Could he be Surgeon General? Do you actually have to be a surgeon?

[DFW]

140. Howard hasn't yet made any noises in either direction

And I haven't talked to him since the Denver Convention, so I can't speak
from first-hand knowledge, but I do know that the people in the DNC who
work immediately under him were not happy when Obama didn't mention him
in his election victory speech, and, for that matter, doesn't seem to have
given any indication since that he knows Howard is alive.

Without Howard, there would have been no President Obama, and no big Congressional
majority in both Houses. If Howard has other plans, fine, but if not, well, he
WAS a successful governor of Vermont, and does know how to get things done. If he
has a cabinet position that requires working with Republicans, I think he knows
how to do it. He also knows how to win, even if he had to learn it since 2004.
Maybe he will just get disgusted and say, "hey, if I'm too much of a partisan
Democrat for you, then fine, you're on your own." Our loss. He'll always be a
friend to me, just as he was when I met him as "howard Who?" nearly 10 years ago.

But if the Obama camp shoves him aside for "bi-partisan" reasons, or because Rahm
thinks it is sweet revenge (for having been right, no less!), it will be like a
heart patient who is so smug that he was saved by a timely dose of digitalis that
he tosses his digitalis in the trash. Howard is a major asset. I'd think twice about
showing him the door, if I were Obama.

Surgeon General, anyone?

[madfloridian]

147. They have not mentioned his name at all. It was very noticeable.

The whole thing is weird.

[DFW]

187. I very much agree

There must be something going on that isn't being talked about.
Without Howard, we'd probably be still dreaming about a solid
majority in even one house of Congress, let alone both, and the
consequences for the Supreme Court alone are enormous. Howard
alone practically saved us from more Scalias and Alitos. And suddenly
he's the invisible man? Six weeks max, and I'll find out something
about what is going on here.

[madfloridian]

196. I so much agree...DFW

It is so strange how any mention of him is taboo, and even posting about all he has done gets one n trouble here at DU. The major bloggers have mentioned it briefly, but only in the context of the "partisan" stuff.

There is no real defense going on.

Hubby and I stopped our donations when we heard Rahm was in. We knew then something was wrong.

:hi:

[DFW]

202. You can still donate to the DNC

That would send a signal that there are some of us who haven't forgotten. I'm tempted to call some people
I'm close to at the DNC and ask WTF is going on--assuming they even know. If Howard is being shut out, there
is a better than even chance they will be the last to find out why. I wonder who they think is going to
help them out in the 2010 midterms, when the rabid right has licked their wounds and reorganized their
attack machine on us? If they think Obama's dazzle and spirited oratory will be enough to win mid-term
elections, they don't know the RNC. Karl Rove and Frank Luntz won't go away just because they couldn't
work their evil magic this time. They are still 3 for 5 since 2000, and they haven't gotten any kinder or gentler.
.

[madfloridian]

150. This blogger says it far better than I have. The "partisan" angle.

My point was not so much that he is not getting the position, but that the Obama staff found it necessary to leak this ugly stuff. Being partisan? That should not be a bad thing.

http://americannonsense.com/?p=17461

The blogger links to the same Politico post.

"Boy, I hope Rahm Emanuel doesn’t get a position in the administration, given that he was chair of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee and spent a chunk of the last four years helping thin the ranks of Republicans in the House (and did a nice job of it, too!).

Oh, wait…

If Obama wants someone like Daschle to head up Health and Human Services because Daschle has Hill experience, that’s one thing. But if the standard is now “partisanship”, then Rahm better resign ASAP, because there are few dudes more partisan in Washington than Rahm.

In that questionnaire the transition team has for prospective administration employees, they might as well add another one: “Have you ever given money to a candidate for office attempting to thin the ranks of Republicans in office?” Who knew that engaging in the electoral process was now a bad thing?

Howard Dean helped pave the way for Obama’s victory, as well as for the increased majorities in Congress and governorships. I don’t give Howard all the credit — our current majorities are the result of a lot of hard work by a lot of people (you included) — but it’s beyond question that Dean was a major factor. Even his fiercest critics are admitting it. So to now penalize him for his success (assuming he wants HSS and assuming this article is correct) would be ridiculous."

Just realized...looks like that blogger linked to Markos's post at Daily Kos.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/11/14/104610/80/180/660872

[FLAprogressive]

152. Fuck bipartisanship.

[Bake]

155. OK, then, what about Surgeon General?

There must - MUST - be a spot in the Admin for someone as smart as Howard, especially given how hard he worked (as in, worked his ass off!) to elect not only Barack Obama but plenty of other Dems in the last two cycles!!

Bake

[mzmolly]

156. I agree. He needn't be named to ONE particular slot, but the Obama admin would be foolish

not to find good use for his skills.

[blm]

157. I do think this is odd....Obama had to be partisan to WIN the nomination, didn't he?

I hope some of this stuff is just DC 'officials' shooting shit in hopes that it will hit their favorite targets - notice all the 'Kerry pressuring for SoS' and 'traded his endorsement for SoS' articles? For some reason the establishment Dems feeding the mediawhores continue to undermine two of the Dems who opposed Bush the most.

[madfloridian]

177. I notice the stuff about Kerry.. and wondered what was up? He sure worked for Obama very hard.

And deserves some recognition.

[antimatter98]

159. Obama will never do anything radically good..he's chicken.

"middle of the road," with lean toward the GOP is how Obama will go.

Dean might have actually CHANGED things.

Obama has punked Dean and the rest of us. Watch, as the same old middle-right Dems
get appointed to key positions, and then, watch as NOTHING CHANGES.

The punked of the century is underway folks. Just pretend that McCain won if you
want to get your emotions and intellectual thinking aligned to what is happening next.

This isn't change, it's the same ol stuff.

[deaniac21]

160. I don't see how they would even consider anyone else.

[Spike89]

161. it's politics, and politics ARE important

Howard Dean could be the messiah, but that doesn't mean he would help get some very much needed health care reform passed. Has everyone forgot that 1/2 the reason Clinton's health care initiative when down in flames was because Hillary was made the issue?

We desperately need lots of reform, healthcare primarily. Dean is a great guy, and well-qualified, but I can't argue with the contention that he would send a partisan message that could overshadow the legislation we need. I really don't care about how it gets done, I just want single-payer health care for everyone before I die.

[madfloridian]

162. Good you will get "post partisan"....no disagreement.

You want it, you got it.

If that is the way the party is going, with no dissension..they won't need us.

[Borgnine]

164. It's up to us to make sure our party doesn't throw away Dean.

Dean went to bat for us, the people, and worked hard to give us influence and shape the future of the party. Now it's time we returned the favor.

[madfloridian]

165. DU is too busy saying it is okay to toss him, and urging us to fall in line.

Sorry to see it.

It is up to us. But the many will wear the few of us down now.

It was not that way a couple of years ago.

There was support for what he was doing. Now it is never question.

We won by questioning.

[BlueMTexpat]

166. MadF, I am a long-time fan of yours and a fellow Deaniac

and I believe that whatever Howard wants, Howard should get. :hi:

Of course, many of us would like to see him at HHS, but I have not read anywhere that is what HE wants. I personally do not care at all for Rahm Emanuel, but I am willing to give him and Obama a chance. It may be what we are not hearing is that Howard would prefer to do something else. He's had a long hard slough and he has demonstrated his ability to make things happen, much more effectively than Emanuel ever has, IMO, so if Obama has any sense ... and I believe that he does ... he will request that Dean serve in a capacity where he not only wants to serve, but may not have to butt heads with Emanuel all the time.

There are so many things that need to be done in our country. And Howard will pitch in more than anyone to help get them done. We're still in early days yet.

******
Just MO, I know, but it does seem as if some here are attacking the OP in a personal manner and unfairly. I didn't go through some of the other threads that are referred to but some posts that I see here are not worthy of the DU posters I admire, who are legion. I know MF from the DFA days and the alerts given are worthwhile reading, whether we agree with everything said or not. :fistbump:

[madfloridian]

167. The point is not the HHS post...it is the harmful leaks by the Obama staff.

Dangerous ones meant to send a message to the grassroots.

I did not mean to give the impression it was about the post.

It is saying he is too "partisan", right after we won another huge election.

No one seems to get it. These attacks occur here whenever Dean's name is mentioned.

I appreciate your kind remarks, but I get this stuff all the time.

I am a Democrat, a partisan. Sounds to me like there is no room for me in the party anymore.

[BlueMTexpat]

168. I am one of the partisans myself.

My first choice for this year was either Howard Dean or Al Gore. That was not to be. It took me a long while to believe in Obama and I got flamed myself for even daring to mention that he was not perfect, as he is not. But, for this time and various other reasons, I have come to believe that he is the best of a group of good candidates and I am certainly happy with the outcome of the election on Nov 4.

There is still room for you in the Democratic party that I belong to and questioning makes us all strong. "What I wanna know ... " ultimately led to Obama's victory and, if there are some ungrateful and petty Obama staff members, and others, who cannot see that, that is their problem, not ours. They are as unprofessional and nasty in their way as those McCain-Palin staffers who let out all their venom about Palin only after they lost (we would never have heard anything otherwise). Their karma will ultimately catch up to them. Leave them to it.

Have some faith in the grassroots, in the states where Howard's work build the party up! Howard fired up people who were never interested in politics before and they are watching. Carefully.

[madfloridian]

174. That may be my problem. Those groups are not strong here...

and hubby and I were shunned by the Democrats when we defended Dean during the primary.

We had an active DFA, but now only South Florida does. Maybe Tampa, not sure.

We are isolated here.

But someone needs to speak up, and DU is not allowing it to happen. I have bruises when I post his name or anything about him. It is deliberate, planned elsewhere, and carried out here. I hope you are right and that people are observing....but not any where I live.

[DFW]

203. Dean and Gore--what a team THAT would have been

On May 31, in New York, I was at a small gathering in an apartment in New York with both of them, and as I looked at the two of them
standing two feet from me, I thought right then and there, history has cheated us cruelly for not having these two guys as President and
Vice-President of the USA.

[nickgutierrez]

170. Dean should stay right where he is.

He's done a hell of a job as DNC chair.

[JDPriestly]

185. The DNC Chair should be partisan. It is a party post, after all.

If the DNC Chair is not partisan, then what good is he (or she)? That's the most partisan post in the party.

[Demeter]

172. It's Early Days

Obama will have the power and freedom to change his mind and his appointments, and the intellect to realize when change is necessary. I expect Rahm will learn to be leashed, or be released from service. I expect Howard Dean will be the second-string hero who comes in when the first choice comes a cropper.

In fact, I expect a whole lot of professionalism, carried out by bona fide adults. It's a change I can believe in.

[madfloridian]

175. Agreed about Obama's professionalism.

But he needs to stop the leaks from his staff which are meant to undermine Dean.

There is no reason for it to be going on.

[Demeter]

176. I Agree. And It's Most Likely Rahm, The Man We Love To Hate

After all, he has so many flaws, what's to like?

[madfloridian]

178. Buzzflash gives Wings of Justice award.

That a nice thought.

http://www.wingsofjustice.com/08/11/woj08046.html

[Cha]

179. Dean would be perfect because he

actually can bring people together, too.

I don't want much but I want Dean to have a job in Obama Biden's admin.

[JCMach1]

186. I call 'Rahm' out on this one

:grr:

[vanderBeth]

188. :(

[LWolf]

198. We have to have someone who works well with Republicans

in every appointed position. After all, that's why we elected Obama. Because we didn't think our Democrats were complicit enough, or spent enough time pandering to the opposition.

We elected Obama to "bring everybody together;" in other words, to make a unified centrist party including republicans and democrats, and throw those of us outside the center under the bus.

:sarcasm: