I'm so angry about the Hillary SOS leak.

[Meldread]

Andrea Mitchell who broke the story was just on Rachel Maddow. She clearly stated that she was under the impression that this leak was not a trial balloon but a genuine leak. This makes me angry.

I do not know who made the leak, but it is pretty clear why it was leaked. It was to force Obama's hand. Throughout the entire process there has been only one or two leaks from Obama's inner circle. Andrea said her two sources she's known for "years."

I don't think it takes rocket science that this leak most likely came from the Clinton camp. If he does not offer her the position then it looks bad.

I was favoring Richardson, but I have no problem with anyone else Obama decides to pick, including Hillary. My anger is based around the fact that this leak was designed specifically to force Obama's hand in giving Hillary the position. I think that Obama should have a clear policy for everyone: If your name is leaked, your name is automatically stripped from the list. Period. No exceptions.

I'm not saying Hillary or Bill leaked it themselves, but I do think someone in Hillary's inner circle DID leak the information. That should be hugely concerning to Obama. I hope he demands that, if she still wants to be considered, she has to fire anyone who might have been connected to this event. Otherwise, tell her get back on the plane and fly back to New York.

[Pirate Smile]

1. Nobody is going to force Obama's hand. He'll pick who he wants regardless.

[Meldread]

5. It is blatant political wrangling.

No, he doesn't have to pick her, but if he does not it looks bad publicly. After he passed her over for Vice President (something many people believe she was "owed") passing her up for Secretary of State would be a second slap in her face.

[Pirate Smile]

10. He isn't going to be pressured. He has the job. These are his decisions.

This isn't a problem.

[TheWraith]

12. Agreed, but that doesn't mean people aren't going to try to force him into a pick. nt

[Meldread]

16. Exactly, you've got it.

[Pirate Smile]

27. Obama has said repeatedly that he likes the idea of the "team of rivals" like Lincoln

had in his cabinet. The idea of him wanting Hillary in his cabinet based on that doesn't seem too far fetched.

People need to chill and have some faith in his judgment and strength. Noone is going to manipulate him into doing anything. He'll do what he thinks is best.

[Meldread]

43. I know that, and I do not think that.

I am not questioning his judgment. Why would anyone think that? In fact my OP had nothing to do with Obama himself, but rather what was going on politically.

The entire point of my post was to voice my opinion on the leak, to spark discussion on the leak itself, the political reasoning behind the leak, and what should be done about the leak and potential future leaks.

[Demobrat]

28. Let them try.

If he wants somebody else that person will get the job, and if Hillary's camp is responsible for the leak they're the ones who will look bad, not Obama. Seems to me he would be LESS likely to give the job to somebody with a leaky staff, not more.

[Blue_In_AK]

72. That is SO last summer.

It's time to move on.

[Bandit]

86. You just have to keep the hatred going.

It came from the Obama transition team, not the Hillary camp. Get Over your hate..

[liberalmuse]

22. Exactly, BUT...

the DC whores are out in full force. They really think Obama is some young, wet behind the ears black guy ('Yessa' 'Nossa') :puke: who doesn't know his head from his ass. They are WRONG. Obama needs to tell them all to FUCK OFF.

[Pirate Smile]

36. Obama doesn't need to tell them to f@#k off. That isn't his style. He is the President elect. He

will just do what he thinks is best.

I don't understand why people are upset.

The press was freaking out today because they had no news and there were no leaks. Maybe the Obama camp decided to throw them a leak bone.

[bdamomma]

81. the DC whores, should not underestimate Pres Elect Obama

he is no chump.

[movonne]

2. I thought the same thing...

[movonne]

3. I thought the same thing...

[RoyGBiv]

4. Or ...

It's utter bullshit that some right wing hack job made up out of nothing in order to start a controversy where none existed.

Of course that's never happened ...

If it was a genuine leak, so what ... he'll get over it as will everyone else.

[Meldread]

14. Hillary was on a plane to Chicago today.

She claims it is for "personal business." Not a lie if she's being interviewed for the position. I do believe Obama is considering her, and for good reason I think she is pretty qualified. Although, really I think Richardson outshines both Kerry and Hillary when it comes to diplomacy which is why I support him. (Not to mention the political benefits with Hispanics, a double slam dunk.)

It's not the end of the world, and Obama will recover if he rejects her in favor of someone else. I am angry at the political wrangling, and the possibility that Hillary could be behind it. I am not saying she is, but it is clear who benefits from such a leak.

[RoyGBiv]

21. It's Andrea Mitchell ...

She is not our friend.

Her "good" sources could be airline pilots for all we know.

OnEdit: Speaking of airline pilots ...

I just remembered this.

A primer on how rumors that turn out to be true get started ...

I was on a plane home from DC a few years back and somehow ended up on a flight that made a stop in Louisville. I didn't change planes there, but a lot of people got off while others got on. One of the people who boarded was Kelvin Sampson, former University of Oklahoma basketball coach who was rumored to be looking for another job at the time. No one on the plane appeared to recognize him. I didn't invade his privacy, but as I was leaving, I presented my hand for a handshake, and he accepted. And that's that.

But when I got home, I told people about seeing him, and someone else mentioned he could have been interviewing in Indiana for that job since they were short a coach, and we all got to talking, wondering why he'd be in Louisville if he were looking for a job in Indiana, and then we figured out through a little Internet research that the sports director for Indiana was in Louisville the day I went through there, and we put a couple coins together and got two cents.

We guessed, correctly, he'd be offered the job at Indiana.

And he was.

But it was all circumstantial at the time and just a bunch of people with too much time on their hands sitting around talking about stuff we'd seen or heard or thought.

Had we been a "trusted source" for some sports reporter, and had they been thirsting for information on the subject, we could well have been an "anonymous" source they "trusted" fully who leaked the story ...

[Captain Hilts]

48. Hillary has kin in the area!

[WhollyHeretic]

6. So you are angry at an imaginary person for a story that may not be true?

:shrug:

[AlCzervik]

7. Howard Wolfson maybe?

[CK_John]

8. The ways of DC is based on "the leak", the campaign is another world. The transition team best make

adjustments. DC has multiple power centers and cannot fit into one size fits all.

[itsrobert]

9. The Chief of Staff pick was leaked

Looks like the Obama transition team is full of leaks. Shame on those pointing their fingers at "the Clintons" without any evidence.

[Meldread]

26. I did not point the finger at Hillary and Bill, I pointed it at her inner circle.

I am just saying it is pretty obvious who benefits from the leak, but you are right as well. If Obama's got a leak I hope they locate the individual(s) and toss them out immediately to make an example.

However, there is no reason not to believe that it wasn't Rahm Emmanuel's side who made the first leak.

I just think it should be made clear: If your name is leaked, your name is immediately taken off the list. That would ensure that stuff like this does not happen.

[TheWraith]

11. I agree that that seems the most likely scenario.

I don't see the Obama team picking somebody like Hillary for SoS above several other far more qualified candidates. I know that they say it's Obama advisors, but I don't trust that attribution. Or for that matter it could easily be ex-Clinton people hired by Obama: Andrea Mitchell said that these were sources she'd known for years, implying that they're probably Washington insiders, and therefore people playing on the Clinton team.

Some of the Clinton people tried this trick on the VP job of trying to force Obama into a corner. I think this is more of the same.

[Meldread]

46. I think so as well.

I hope if Obama is giving her serious consideration that he flat out tells her that this leak greatly diminishes her chances, and demands the leaker's be fired if they are on her staff.

But really, I think you are right. I think Hillary is qualified, but if you are trying to pick the BEST possible Secretary of State, then it's pretty obvious I believe that Bill Richardson is your man. Not to mention that he'd be throwing a bone to the Hispanic community, and hopefully working to bring them into the Democratic party as a solid base. That's not to say Kerry isn't qualified and Obama doesn't owe him politically, he is and Obama does. That's what makes it such a hard choice, IMO.

All that being said, I hope Obama finds a way to send a message to future leaker's.

[clydefrand]

13. Huffington Post says Obama's advisers told NBC about this

"Two Obama advisers have told NBC News that Hillary Clinton is under consideration to be secretary of state. Would she be interested? Those who know Clinton say possibly. But her office says that any decisions about the transition are up to the president-elect and his team.

Clinton was seen taking a flight to Chicago today, but an adviser says it was on personal business. It is unknown whether she had any meeting or conversation with Obama while there."

Above from Huffinton Post.

Does it really matter if her name is known for this position? The names of Kerry, Richardson and ? have been known for some time. Why not hers?

[TheWraith]

Huffington Post is just repeating what NBC said, they're not confirming or adding to it. nt

[MiniMe]

61. Yes, only because if she doesn't get the job is would be seen as another insult

I say another because he didn't even really consider her for VP. I think the campaign is treading in dangerous water if they float this out there and she doesn't get it, unless it is because she doesn't want it. But even then, would people believe that she didn't want it?

[Lyric]

15. Jesus Effing Christ.

:eyes:

Nobody is STUPID enough to try to "force the hand" of a man who was just elected by a wide margin in the midst of a national crisis, much less someone who is as intelligent and dedicated to the party as Hillary Clinton is. Your own freakanoid suspicions and prejudices are NOT evidence enough to start tossing out accusations. Stop slandering Clinton and/or her staff, stop trying to poison the well of unity, and go froth at the mouth elsewhere.

[TheWraith]

17. Excuse me, but have you forgotten that they tried to force his hand right after the primaries? nt

[Captain Hilts]

30. Um, 18 million votes gets you something. That's the way the game is played. nt

[TheWraith]

41. Actually it gets you absolutely nothing when you go nuclear in a primary.

People who go negative in a primary deserve to be hosed down, thrown out the door, and told never to return. Doing your utmost to destroy the party's nominee for months after it's clear that you can't win isn't deserving of a reward, and thinking it is is tantamount to needing a mental health evaluation.

[Captain Hilts]

47. Um, no, she didn't "go nuclear." It was not a dirty primary by any standard...

you must be too young to remember the hissy fits that Ted Kennedy had with Carter and Bradley with Gore, and they had only a small fraction of the winner's total.

[TheWraith]

75. What freakin' primary did you watch?

This was universally agreed to be one of the nastiest races in modern political history.

[SoCalDem]

79. Technically , so did she..(before the sliming started in earnest)

Minus the "supers", she had very few delegates until the Rush republicans started crossing over, to muck things up.. of course there is no way to know for sure just how many of the 18 million (actually 17 & change) were dems and how many were part of the mccain Nov 4 vote..

In any case, Kennedy lost and so did Gore..so internecine sliming is not the greatest tack..and I was proud that Obama did not "follow suit" , although he could have easily done it..

[Blue_In_AK]

73. You're insulting nearly half the Democrats who voted

in the primaries. I don't understand why people want to spread a bunch of divisive rumors at this point when there's no indication that there's a rift between Obama and Hillary. The primary was not that unusual. She had a lot of support and owed it to her people to give it all she had.

[TheWraith]

76. No, I'm saying that the President Elect gets to make the decisions.

You might have 18 million votes, or 80 million, but as long as the other person has at least one more, they get to make the call, and nobody gets to demand anything.

And yes, the primary was VERY unusual.

[Meldread]

23. Your post is probably one of the most ridiculous posts I've read on DU.

Yeah, I am full of "freakanoid suspicion" and "prejudice" for pointing out the obvious? Well, you should probably point it out to Rachel and Andrea who said as much themselves. You should also immediately attack everyone who has a single active brain cell in their head.

Now, if you will excuse me, I am going to take a piss in your well of unity.

[Lyric]

29. If my post is one of the most "ridiculous" you've ever read

then apparently you don't bother to read your own.

Talk to me about brain cells when you manage to spawn a functional one yourself.

I swear to God, it seems like some people don't really WANT us to come together as a party and actually get shit done.

[Meldread]

40. I'm not the one who launched into a personal attack.

My OP was in no way directed at you personally, and yet somewhere in your tripped out mind you decided to launch an attack against me under some crazy reason that I want to destroy party unity... why? Because I am voicing an opinion about politics on a... gasp... political message board? Not to mention that it was a leak the Obama Team most likely did not want made public.

Yeah, I'm the one trying to poison the unity well. That's me. Despite the fact that I said she was qualified and that I really wouldn't have cared if she was given the position, and the entire point of my post was to voice my opinion, to spark discussion on the leak itself, the political reasoning behind the leak (*gasp* on a political forum), and what should be done about the leak and potential future leaks.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

51. !

:applause:

And for the record, your initial post was spot on.

[Midlodemocrat]

82. It certainly was.

[Captain Hilts]

35. Christ on a bike is right!!!! Not another anti-Clinton conspiracy theory!

[Lilith Velkor]

54. These asshats will be our lolcows for the next four years.

It'll be awesome. :popcorn:

[ruggerson]

66. and they usually have multiple bizarre thought patterns

it's not just a paranoid delusional frenzy over Hillary Clinton.

[4themind]

18. Seems like Rahm would fit your criteria

given that he had divided loyalties in the primaries, was in the inner part of the Clinton administration, and has been dubbed a leak machine for years. And he was the first high level appointment (i.e. change from the campaign group). Not that I'm saying that there is sufficient evidence to pin this on him, but it is one theory for something that I don't think we're ever going to find out.

[Meldread]

33. Andrea said she had two sources.

I don't think Rahm would immediately leak something like this, especially just after being brought into the Obama inner circle. Why piss your new boss off so soon? Of course, he's known for his hardball, and he shouldn't be ruled out. However, the fact that she said she has two sources who she has known for years implies that she went somewhere more "leaky" than the Obama inner circle.

[johncoby2]

19. shad up, will ya?

Gosh, it has just been over a week and you are already bitchin

[DJ13]

20. More DLC triangulation to try and force Obama to support their goals

First it was Larry Sumner as Treasury Secretary, now Hillary for SOS.

Ignore the chatter, the MSM and their best pro-corporate buds the DLC will come out with more, and you'll just get upset all over again.

[Captain Hilts]

31. Obama IS a DLCer. nt

[TheWraith]

42. No, he's not. You're either lying or you're grossly misinformed. nt

[Captain Hilts]

49. Let's see, he's hangin' with Rahm E, Paul Volker, Colin Powell, Sam Nunn, Jim Cooper...nt

[TheWraith]

74. Thanks for proving you don't know what you're talking about.

You know, even if the DLC were the magical all-powerful evil boogeyman that people here like to imagine it is, the group has a very public membership list. Obama's not on it, and when they mistakenly listed his name, he told them to remove it.

Furthermore, if you'd poked your head out of the bunker, you'd know he's not "hanging" with Powell; Paul Volcker was first appointed by Carter; and Rahm was one of the Clinton insiders. So if associating with him is poison, your favorites are neck deep in it.

[blue_onyx]

24. I don't really see the big deal in the leaks

Obama will pick who he wants to pick, regardless of the info that becomes public knowledge.

[TahitiNut]

25. "Cui bono?"

It seems clear that the primary beneficiary of having such information publicized is ultimately responsible for its dissemination. I'd not regard such a person as either professional or trustworthy in a job that requires discretion and honest interaction.

[Ichingcarpenter]

39. I'm not buying it..... and agree with you

For two years the Obama camp had no leaks and the media had speculation on leaks and was wrong.

Who benefits from this story? The Democrats? I don't think so.
What will be talked about tomorrow all day to give them something to talk about?
The news.

I saw a breaking story today on NBC about something found in a river
that they said had to connection to anything in a case.

The Obama campaign has been almost flawless on handling the news cycle
and have grown over the last two years in their ability to do so.

The same story on Dean.... I think is under the same categories.

I hope I'm right and have a pretty good track record.

[DU GrovelBot]

32. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v4.1
==================



This week is our fourth quarter 2008 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Please take a moment to donate! Thank you!

[redstate_democrat]

34. I agree.

This was totally designed to force Obama's hand. It was probably a demand placed on him by Bill Clinton. Either she gets SOS or she is up and running in 2012 ala Ted Kennedy 1980. They ain't fooling anyone. This was in BAD TASTE.

[AtomicKitten]

37. Sometimes a leak is just a leak.

Unfortunately after the primaries the scenario you describe is plausible.

No worries. I think Obama has made it pretty clear he will not be pressured by anyone about anything. It's good to be king.

[unkachuck]

38. "...but I do think someone in Hillary's inner circle DID leak the information."

....maybe it was our buddy, rahmbone?

[Olney Blue]

44. Who leaked the leak?

[Political Tiger]

45. You have a good point.

But with it being a "leak" I guess we'll probably never know for sure.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

50. Oh Please.

What a bunch of melodramatic malarkey.

I would love to see Hillary get it and if not her than Kerry.

I don't think Richardson is the best for the position by a longshot.

But to get all vitriolic on Hillary's 'inner circle' is just reactionary and silly.

[TwilightZone]

52. What part of "Two Obama advisers have told NBC News" are you having difficulty with?

Methinks you're barking up the wrong tree.

[justiceischeap]

53. Let's be realistic about the "leak" shall we

After watching the Obama campaign for the last two years or so, do you REALLY believe that things are being "leaked?" The information that is being "leaked" is allowed to be "leaked" otherwise we wouldn't hear about it.

[mwb970]

85. Finally! Someone suggests it might have been leaked on purpose.

Everything the Obama people have done so far has been very "on purpose". I don't see why this would be any different.

But, one thing arguing against this theory is that Bill Kristol advanced it on "Fox and Friends" this morning.

[wisteria]

55. This could have been done to to screw Kerry who has been mentioned previously.

Clinton people have been after him every since he endorsed Obama over Hillary. Clinton people voted for O'Reilly in the Mass. Democratic primaries to spite Kerry and force him to have to run against another Dem in the primaries. O'Reilly was a terrible candidate and the Clinton people knew it, but they voted for O'Relly for spite.
If this is as you say, to force Obama's hand, I hope he shows what he is really made of and doesn't pick her just because of this.Besides, even if a few Clinton people get mad about her not being given the nod- they will get over it in four years. All in all though, this demonstrates why we need to be done with the Clinton's. It is all about them and all about them maintaining power.

[Newsjock]

56. AP donut lady Liz Sidoti is out with a slightly different take on this

http://www.fresnobee.com/649/story/1012118.html

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton is among the candidates that President-elect Barack Obama is considering for secretary of state, according to two Democratic officials in close contact with the Obama transition team.

In this report, the "Democratic officials" are not part of the Obama transition team. If true, that might be significant.

[wisteria]

57. Yes, a lot of Dem's have had a lot to say recently. n/t

[Lil Missy]

58. Could have been a trial balloon floated by Rahm too.

Just sayin'

[Meldread]

60. I thought that at first as well.

Then Andrea on Rachel's show flat out said that she was certain that it wasn't a trial balloon, and since she was the one who broke the story, I'm taking her word on it.

We'll see what happens. I trust in Obama to make the right decision, I am mostly angry at the fact that this is going to dominate the news cycle tomorrow, and that if he doesn't pick her all the hostile folks in this thread will immediately go apeshit decrying how once again he's slapped her in the face.

[Lil Missy]

65. I just now saw that Andrea interview on Rachael's show.

My mistake. :)

[xultar]

59. You mean after all the fucking leaks that have come from Obama's camp...Rahm, GITMO, Gore, etc.

What a fucking loser ass post.

[Windy]

62. This is absolutely a leak from the Clintons. She wants the job and they will work to get it.

Its not going to happen. Obama doesn't allow the Clinton's to push him around as evident by the campaign from the beginning.

I wish they would just go away. Sorry, but its time to turn the page. Not only that, but the media needs a story.

[JVS]

71. I'm not so sure. It very well could be, but if this kind of crap didn't work for the VP slot...

then why would it work now? Another possibility is that someone out there likes floating these rumors to make it look embarrassing for Clinton when she doesn't get picked.

[JI7]

63. it was most likely leaked by Obama

or rather his people with his permission.

[ruggerson]

64. What makes you think she wants the job?

[Breeze54]

67. Andrea Mitchell ? LMFAO!!! WHO fucking CARES?!?

Not me!! :P

Andrea Mitchell, wife of asshole stock market buffoonery?

You mean THAT Andrea Mitchell?! :P

Yikes.... move FORWARD.... FAST!!!!

[madeline_con]

68. Why does it "look bad" if he doesn't offer her the position? n/t

[MasonJar]

69. I guess some DUers are never going to forgive Hillary for running

for President. She certainly spent three months of her life and untold amounts of money campaigning for Obama and we, her DU supporters, got behind Obama and yet those of you who won the primary via your choice are still outraged by her and by Bill, a truly great Democratic president. It does not make sense. What do you want? YOU WON, SO SHUT UP ABOUT HILLARY AND BILL. You may need our support in 2012. The suggestion that ths is a leak by the Clintons is out of sight out of bounds. Why would it even be something she wants?

[Scout]

80. oh, it's not her running they have a problem with, it's that she actually tried to WIN n/t

[Blue_In_AK]

70. I'm sure they're all talking about appointments among

themselves, and nobody's going to be terribly surprised by the final choices. The primaries are over, Obama is the president-elect and I personally can't see Hillary Clinton attempting to sabotage him at this point in the game. She fought a hard fight, but she's been nothing but supportive of Obama since. I don't think we need to be speculating about any dissension.

[Beacool]

77. Oh please, the drama..................

Why would Hillary want to leave her position in the senate to be at Obama's beck and call? Some of you are too funny!!! Hillary has power in her own right, she does not need for Obama to throw crumbs her way. Leave that for people like Richardson. He can have him as SOS, but he should be forwarned: never trust a man who betrays his friends.

:eyes:

[Dem2theMax]

78. Our President-Elect knows what he is doing. Have faith, people.

Obama won't be forced to do anything he doesn't want to do. This man has a clear vision of what he wants to accomplish as President.
I, for one, am going to enjoy the next four (read EIGHT) years.

As for the leaks, I'd bet anything that ANYONE on Obama's staff dumb enough to leak anything, won't be on said staff for long.

[Kazak]

83. Dumb, possibly uninformed question.

But hey, it's near impossible to keep up with everything!

Isn't Hillary still in the Senate? Don't we still need her in the Senate?

[acmavm]

84. I am soooo impressed with the number of clairvoyants we have

here on DU.

I don't know why this country is in such bad shape. People could just come here and any number of our own poor man's Amazing Kreskin's could cure all their ills by diagnosing all their aches and pains, solve all their problems by telling them what the future holds, tell them where they lost the car keys, and be the last word on why something happened and who did it and when.

[marshall]

87. It's a graceful way for her to exit her job as senator

I don't think she's interested in being a career politician like those who stay in there for decades, but if she were to job seek re-election when she's up again it would look like the job was nothing more than a stepping stone for her. And since it wouldn't hurt for President Obama to have her on his team, it's a win-win situation.