My first exposure to gay/lesbian sensibilities came from

[cali]

a kind of corny novel entitled "The Well of Loneliness".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Well_of_Loneliness

I was 12, and I found it one rainy afternoon in my parents' library- where I also found Freud and various other books not generally recommended as child's fare during the sixties.

The story captivated me completely and engendered a strong empathetic response to the protagonist who struggled to find out who she was and how she fit into the world.

I knew gay couples of both sexes prior to reading the book. My folks had friends in long established same sex relationships, but I'd never made the connection before.

So my acceptance of gay and lesbian folks owes at least as much to a novel written in 1928 as to anything else.

Books are powerful.

[Parche]

1. It should come from the heart

not from a book

[cali]

2. what the fuck? that's insane. books are written by people.

they're often times, our connection to different cultures and ideas. books absolutely can trigger feelings that come from the heart.

I think your comment is incredibly threadbare and essentially indefensible.

Sounds like you don't care much for books.

[Parche]

4. i read more then you

tons of books

[cali]

5. um, how on earth do you know that?

I had the great good fortune to grow up in what I can only refer to as a house of books- and I've never stopped reading. You may or may not have read more widely than me, but that wasn't my point anyway.

If you don't understand how profoundly books can change hearts and minds, all your reading seems a little bit irrelevant.

[Parche]

6. i have read all my life

and that is way more then you
i understand the meanings better then you

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. You read a lot of books about submarines. Which are very homoerotic.

At least the ones I read.

[Parche]

21. alot of seamen

:rofl: :rofl: :hi:

[NeedleCast]

34. No you don't

I've read more than both of you and my understanding of the author's meaning in all cases is far superior.

[foo_bar]

9. that's "more than you"

i read more then <sic> you

and that is way more then <sic> you

i understand the meanings better then <sic> you

http://grammartips.homestead.com/than.html
http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Than-and-Then

[codjh9]

14. Ha ha, thanks - I was going to say the same thing. You'd think someone who 'reads so much'

would know how to spell then/than.

[donco6]

11. Then you would know the diff between "than" and "then".

:eyes:

[Morrisons Ghost]

3. Tolerance is something

Taught..not something you're born with! We learn tolerance from our parents or other adults in our lives when we are very small. Children live what they learn! Tolerance no matter where one learns it is a good thing!

[cate94]

10. Are you saying that if awareness

comes from a book, the resulting tolerance and understanding doesn't come from the heart?
Books expand our horizons and help us empathize with people we might never understand.
It doesn't make sense to say that this acceptance doesn't come from the heart. Of course it does.

Thank you Cali for your empathy, and thank you for sharing it with us.

[cali]

16. thank you for understanding what I was saying

all the threads about books and reading made me really want to post about how a book can make a huge impact. I remember everything about reading that book and how I cried over it.

[KitchenWitch]

12. Parche, seriously...

This is not a pissing contest, and cali was just expressing how she came to have her sensitivity toward the GLBT community.

I like you, Parche, I really do, but this is not an appropriate post.

[Parche]

22. she misunderstood what i was trying to say

I understand that she read those books and that gave her an insight on those things

But feelings usually come from the heart, that is what i was trying to say


and she blows it all out of proportion

[cali]

23. you made a snide comment- I suspect I know why. In any case,

you're still wrong. books can evoke feelings that come from the heart. And honestly, I feel sorry for you, as a person who's well read, and yet doesn't know that.

great art has the power to open hearts and minds.

[Parche]

24. i know books can do that

but if you have it inside from the beginning without reading books, then that you are alot better off


"There are worlds beyond the worlds within which the explorer must explore. But there is one power which seems to transcend space and time, life and death. It is a deeply human power which holds us safe and together when all otherforces combine to tear us apart. We call it the power of books and love."

[cali]

26. that still doesn't make any sense

obviously if at the age of 12, that book resonated with me, I did have "inside from the beginning" as you put it. And really, if a book can help us understand people better, that's a great thing But whatever. You're clearly determined to try and diminish what I wrote, and that's your problem.

[terrya]

7. My first realization of gay life came from "The City and the Pillar"

Gore Vidal's groundbreaking novel.

I always felt...alone. I realized pretty early on that I was different. That I was more attracted to boys than I was to girls. And then I read "The City and the Pillar" and...even in the pages of a book, I discovered that maybe I wasn't the only one.

Yes, books ARE powerful.

[cali]

8. thanks terrya, for understanding what I was saying.

The Well of Loneliness undoubtedly had a huge impact on my life- as did for example, The Painted Bird and many other novels. Even though I'm not gay, The Well of Loneliness resonated for me. I could relate strongly to the protagonist.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

30. To be completely honest...

my best friend and I made out innocently enough, when we were eleven or twelve.
Later, I found I was attracted to the opposite sex but same sex relationships never seemed
odd or unnatural because of that experience. I believe this happens more often than
we might think.

[codjh9]

15. Mine came from my first gay friend, at my first job.

[Raster]

17. Thank you, cali.

[cali]

19. truly, I wish you didn't feel that thanks are in order

it makes me a bit uncomfortable. Treating people equally and supporting them is simply what we should do. And anyway, even though I'm essentially straight, my life is and has been far too entwined with too many gay and lesbian folks for me to feel anything but grateful that these guys have been in my life.

[Parche]

25. essentially straight?

what does that mean?

You either are or are not

[cali]

27. It means I've had sexual experiences with people of the same gender.

[Terran]

28. Oh brother

You have a lot to learn about human sexuality.

[Terran]

29. That's very cool

I wish I had found such a book at a young age. I'm one of those gay folks who basically reinvented the wheel all by myself until about the age of 20.

edit: oops, I meant this as a response to cali! :blush:

[FreeState]

31. "You either are or are not" - LOL

Human sexuality covers a whole spectrum of feelings/emotions and identity. For the vast majority of humans one is neither gay or straight but bisexual (even if they have never acted on their feelings).

[AntiFascist]

42. I don't know if it is a "vast majority"....

I'm one of the 3% who ia always gay, and I suspect there are a lot of straight people who are always straight.

[FreeState]

44. Kinsey scale would beg to differ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale

Introducing the scale, Kinsey wrote:
“Males do not represent two discrete populations, heterosexual and homosexual. The world is not to be divided into sheep and goats. It is a fundamental of taxonomy that nature rarely deals with discrete categories... The living world is a continuum in each and every one of its aspects.
While emphasising the continuity of the gradations between exclusively heterosexual and exclusively homosexual histories, it has seemed desirable to develop some sort of classification which could be based on the relative amounts of heterosexual and homosexual experience or response in each history... An individual may be assigned a position on this scale, for each period in his life.... A seven-point scale comes nearer to showing the many gradations that actually exist." (Kinsey, et al. (1948). pp. 639, 656)”

[AntiFascist]

46. Right, I understand the Kinsey scale...

but there are also a lot more people at the straight end of the scale than are at the gay end, and I don't know how quickly it drops off.

[fizzgig]

35. for someone who reads so much, you really have no understanding of human sexuality

sexuality is not a black and white thing, but a broad spectrum. it is not as simple as saying you're either straight/gay or not.

[Forkboy]

36. This hasn't been one of your better threads.

[Parche]

37. why is that?

:shrug:

[Forkboy]

40. From your response in post #1 on down the one I responded to...

They just don't seem to be all that thoughtful. I normally don't get that impression from you at all. Hence my response.

[AntiFascist]

41. Not necessarilly true, and if you read more you would know that n/t

[BeeBee]

18. Thanks cali. I appreciate your post.

I'm sorry that that other person either didn't get what you were trying to say or didn't want to.

[DearAbby]

20. Mine came from my Sister...

She is a lesbian. We are 15 months apart in age, so we are very close. That is why I know first hand, being gay or a lesbian is as natural, as the sun coming up in the mornings. And I fight for her civil rights, and her family. It's not right, that she can not enjoy the same rights I have. It's just WRONG.

[FreeState]

32. Unfortunately - as a gay person - my first exposure was in Mormon Church

All I knew of homosexuality is:

1) It is sinful

2) Its not part of Gods plan

3) Gay people are dirty/less than everyone else

4) If I prayed enough God *might* take away same sex attraction I was feeling.

Luckily I found friends, books and art that disagreed with the LDS Church that opened my mind and allowed me to love myself and my sexuality.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Mike 03]

38. Wonderful Post, Cali.

I've been trying to figure out, myself, why I never ever had any negative feelings towards or fear of gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender people. Not ever. So much of it had to do with how I was raised, and also I was never exposed to negative images of g/l/b/t people, and actually knew them before I ever saw negative depictions or stupid literature about them. Also, I was not raised in any religion, and that probably helped a lot.

Lovely post as usual.

This whole discussion that is transpiring since last Wednesday is wonderful IMO.

[Neshanic]

39. Mine was first day of football practice. Obviously kept that to myself.

[Parche]

43. kinky!!!

Love those showers!!!!!

:woohoo: :woohoo: :hi:

[Berry Cool]

45. Why the hell does it matter how people open their minds to gay people as human beings

so long as they do? :shrug:

I think there's WAY too much of a drive for ideological purity around DU lately. It's like you're supposed to either be born perfect or something. Heaven forbid you should have some narrow-minded ideas or misunderstandings or beliefs and then come later on to see the light as the result of a book or a movie or a close friend or something.

[cali]

47. Why does my OP so bother you?

It has nothing to do with ideological purity, and in no way am I being dismissive of people who see the light through other means.