Our upcoming "deep recession" may boost universal health care

[SoCalDem]

Why?

Not many people get all worked up when a "marginal person" loses their job, because often those jobs have no real benefits to speak of, and the group-think is that they can just "get another job"..

This recession will be vastly different.

The last "biggie" happened before everyone had been herded in to "managed care"..back when health care was not the biggest issue for most families...back when a visit to the pediatrician's office or a trip to the ER did not require a bankruptcy lawyer..

Just think of all the mid-to-upper-level employees that have been cut loose from the financial services "industry" already, and of all the ones to come..

Big corporations are shedding employees faster than a snake losing it's old skin, and they have just started.

A "money-honey" this morning said that Office max (as well as many other corporations) planned to lay off thousands of "white collar" workers...."the ones with high health care insurance costs" to the corporations.

These are very likely to be 36-50 yr olds, at the apex of their earning power, and with families.. Every family has its share of health issues, but just imagine the mass-panic when shit-loads of "former mid-level managers" with kids who play sports, wives who may have just gotten bad news on a mammogram, a successful report from a fertility doctor, or a recent diagnosis of Diabetes, will react to the knowledge that they not only have lost a job, but they are soon to be bankrupt and begging for medical care..

This will not go over well, and may even convince more than a few "conservatives", that giving your boss life & death power over your family, is not such a great idea.

COBRA can be a solution, but when you lose your job, you lose the ABILITY TO PAY for COBRA, so for most it's an empty option at best.

Very poor people get care, and very rich get care, but until the "mushy-middle" gets hit and hit HARD, the lack of real health care stays just below the radar. This recession will shine a big ole "bat-signal" on the capitol dome..I'm betting that the congress will finally get the message..loud & clear.

[depakid]

1. Employer based care is not only ineffiecient and expensive

but it's a monkey on the back of American business.

Nothing like a major economic downturn to get the chamber of commerce types worrying more about their bottom lines than their ideological stripes.

[SoCalDem]

4. and it holds wages down..

If the boss "tells you" that your cost to the company is $200 a week (what the boss pays), you can never make him/her "prove it"..you just have to accept the fact that if they SAY it's that much, it must be.. It excuses them from raising your wages because of all the "extra" you are costing them :eyes:..

If you DO get a raise, it's usually accompanied by an increase in your share of the medical coverage...and often a higher co-pay as well..

People who HAVE coverage are wage-slaves and dare not quit, because the "new job" may not have benefits that match what they have currently..


and many people give up altogether, on the idea of opening their own business, because they cannot afford to start a business and be without health care insurance , and cannot afford it on their own.

Bosses know that their employees are tethered to their coverage, and can pretty much get a way with murder because the employees are afraid to quit..

If universal care was around, there would be NO earthly reason for bosses to not have to pony up that $200 a week to the employee..in their paycheck...now would there?:evilgrin:

[depakid]

5. Those are excellent points!

Though one suspects the chamber of commerce types might find them less persuasive....;-)

[madmadmad]

12. i never thought of it like that

i could never understand why business didn't back universal healthcare to shift the burden of paying for it from them to the govt. now i understand- they are saving money that they wuld have to pay in wages.

it also explains why wages have been so stagnant for middle-income earners for years and years. it's all coming clear now.

[SoCalDem]

13. I was union for many years, and EVERY contract we "gave back"

so that our "pension fund or health benefits" could be enhanced... We always called them "Wimpy negotiations", because we almost always "gave" something TODAY, that was promised to us LATER..

It's just plain old THEFT.. Companies extort back pay raises the employees earned, and then when the employees are ready to collect on those "deferred" wages, they get the rug pulled out from under them...and at a time when they are too old to go back and "re-earn" all those lost pay raises they gave up along the way..

[madrchsod]

2. the medical care industry is the next to go under

there is no way that industry can stay solvent without universal health care.

[drm604]

3. Exactly.

I'm sure that GM would love to be free of the cost of employee health care.

And the spending on currently neglected health problems would be an economic stimulus.

[truedelphi]

10. When GM first started moving its jobs overseas, the cost of healthcare here in THE USA

was one of the main reasons that GM gave as reason for them needing to leave.

Whereas if Universal Single Payer was our national policy, they couldn't use healthcare as an excuse.

[bob4460]

6. I am one of those in the middle who lost insurance

boy did I screw up missing out on cobra.It sucks really bad I cannot even get into see a doctor even though I will pay in cash at the doctor visit. The health care system if you are poor and have pain management is even worse. My wife , who always get kicked on pre-existing has to drive 150 miles, sit for hours, and the get treated like she is a drug seeker, even though she will not take meds and NEVER asks for them ! They only give her lumbar injections 6 times a year and she has degenerative disc disease all the doctors and staff treat all the patients poorly,like someone is going to let you stick a needle into the sore part of you spine if the are not in terrible pain and it is horrible to watch her go through the pain.no insurance = poor health care

[truedelphi]

11. Gosh I hope things change for your wife. The sooner the better.

I argued and fought for my pain meds

Finally got them, And my doctor requires that I see her every month to see if my situation has improved.

Of course, my situation would not now even exist if I had been allowed a needed opertion back when I was paying $ 550 a month for my Cobra coverage.

But Kaiser Hospital kept stalling around as they knew in ten months I would be gone. So to them, my care management consisted of just waiting out the bell - so much yje better for their profit margin.

And it is funny because those who can afford to pay for first class care, get all the medication they want and then more so. ANd their doctors often look the other way - after all, it is an honor to deal with the well to do, not a burden like it is for them when we "ne'er do wells" show up.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

7. KICK

[bluethruandthru]

8. I've been singing this song all over my workplace

for the last week. We're getting a new "health care plan" that costs us twice as much, doubles our deductibles and provides half the care. And...there's no other option. Even after hearing this, my fellow co-workers are all still scared of single-payer universal coverage.
Everyone tells their "friend of a friend" horror story about Canada or some other country.
I always tell them that when Canadians are surveyed, overwhelmingly they do not want to give up their system of health care.

[kikiek]

9. That's what I say. We need it now for sure. Unemployment is going higher, and hospitals

are losing money right and left. They will be the next ones in line for bailouts unless we start covering people. We cannot let this go on.

[Juche]

14. My brother and his wife are diehard conservatives

He is fairly rational but she is a wingnut. Combined they make about 80k a year. However they support HR676 and say healthcare was the only reason they considered voting dem this year (they voted republican when all was said and done).

I think the middle class is feeling a healthcare squeeze already. Since 1993 the % of jobs that offer healthcare has dropped from about 75% down to maybe 56% now. And the ones that still have it charge more, cover less and may not cover families. Plus with the death of unions, workers have no leverage to intimidate employers into providing healthcare. So millions realize their employer could drop healthcare tomorrow and (since they have no ability to threaten a strike) they have no real leverage to fight back or stop it. The 1/6 who are uninsured is just the tip of the iceberg. Tens of millions of others are worried they will lose their healthcare or it will become unaffordable. I would wager that less than 35% of the country has healthcare they feel they can count on and be able to afford over the long term.

I think this has already happened. But the economic crisis will make it much worse.

[AirmensMom]

15. We have great insurance.

But wait ... harleydad found out last week that he's being laid off. Don't know how we'll pay for COBRA and no one will ever cover me again if we let our group coverage lapse. I sure hope you're right about that "bat-signal." It's ridiculous that we're so far behind other countries when it comes to healthcare.

[Lisa0825]

16. COBRA is a fucking joke.

Oh lets see... I just lost my job and don't know how long I can keep a roof over my head and food on the table... but gee, I can pay 102% of the premium I didn't have to pay while getting a paycheck!!!! NO PROBLEM!

The only people who can afford COBRA are those who actually made enough money to sock away many thousands of dollars in savings (or more), and the average American is having enough trouble making it paycheck to paycheck, much less saving a bundle... and if we DO manage to save, it is earmarked for mortgage, utilities, etc.

Fucking joke. We need reform NOW!