First September 11th, then Katrina.

[ColbertWatcher]

Both events were "disaster opportunities" exploited by the GOP.

Will the failure of the Detroit automakers be the next target of the GOP's disaster capitalism on American soil?

If you're not familiar with the theory of disaster capitalism, here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuyRdJupbvU) is a short film by Alfonso Cuaron and here (http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine) is a link to Klein's webpage, where she discusses the book, any recent news and posts a schedule of appearances by the author as well as video and audio links to previous public appearances. And here (http://www.powells.com/biblio/1-9780805079838-2) is a link to buy the book.

Now, the poll question:

Is Detroit the next target for GOP disaster capitalism?

A. Yes, but only Detroit automakers are the target because they are basically manufacturing plants and unions still have a presence there

B. Yes, Detroit automakers are the target of GOP disaster capitalism, but for a different reason, which I will post in reply

C. Both Detroit and the banks are targets of the GOP's disaster capitalism, but nothing else

D. Due to the falling markets and $700-billion bailout, America's entire economy is the target of the GOP's disaster capitalism

E. No one is the target of GOP's disaster capitalism. Not Detroit, not the banks and certainly not America's economy. I will explain my reason in my reply.

F. I don't know

[slackmaster]

1. The fatal flaw I see with "disaster capitalism" theory

The purpose of capitalism is to accumulate money and/or power.

Nobody has actually benefited from any of these disasters.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. Nobody?

:rofl:

[slackmaster]

3. Name three

The Republicans just got their asses handed to them on a platter, and are in disarray.

A handful of CEOs got golden parachutes, which they would have had anyway. 9/11, Katrina, and the current financial mess is a loss for everyone except people who are so wealthy nothing can touch them. They will surivive it, but they won't prosper from it in any real sense.

I've lost a lot of paper value in the stock market, but the money is just gone. It didn't wind up in someone else's pockets.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

7. Off the top of my head...

Blackwater
Lockheed
China
GM
Dianne Feinstein
Cheney
Exxon...

...I can name 20-50+ others...

[slackmaster]

12. So, are you suggesting that the GOP is in cahoots with China?

A lot more corporations have lost than won. Someone always wins in any given situation.

What you big conspiracy theorists have failed to produce here is evidence that the GOP (the bad player mentioned by the OP) has ended up better off as a result of those three situations.

Sometimes stupidity reigns and shit happens.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

17. Uh, no.

I'm suggesting that people have profitted from the circumstances.

The fatal flaw I see with "disaster capitalism" theory
The purpose of capitalism is to accumulate money and/or power.

Nobody has actually benefited from any of these disasters. -slackmaster-IN THIS THREAD!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4463012&mesg_id=4463033

Follow along.

[slackmaster]

22. So far the only individual you have named is a Democrat

One of the US Senators from my state.

I thought this thread was about a big conspiracy run by the GOP.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

24. You live in Wyoming?

RUMMYisFROSTED (1000+ posts) Fri Nov-14-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Off the top of my head...
Blackwater
Lockheed
China
GM
Dianne Feinstein
Cheney
Exxon...

...I can name 20-50+ others...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4463012&mesg_id=4463082

Or is it China?

[slackmaster]

26. I meant to say individual HUMAN

Sorry.

I understand Mr. Cheney is in pretty sad shape now. Probably not long for this world.

[Lumpsum]

20. Well, the Fed did ship off 2 trillion, and they won't say to who..

My bet? Foreign banks. China included.

[Kurovski]

11. You can get this book at the library...

http://www.amazon.com/Shock-Doctrine-Rise-Disaster-Capitalism/dp/0805079831

"The neo-liberal economic policies—privatization, free trade, slashed social spending—that the Chicago School and the economist Milton Friedman have foisted on the world are catastrophic in two senses, argues this vigorous polemic. Because their results are disastrous—depressions, mass poverty, private corporations looting public wealth, by the author's accounting—their means must be cataclysmic, dependent on political upheavals and natural disasters as coercive pretexts for free-market reforms the public would normally reject."

School system in New Orleans was privatised.

[ColbertWatcher]

27. "School system in New Orleans was privatised." Yup.

And who got the cash for that!?

Ignite! Learn.

And which family is invested in that!?

Why, The Bush Family! That's who!

And, I think Haley Barbour got some cash out of Katrina too. Not to mention Trent Lott, whose house was fixed before anyone else's, the cruise lines, the casinos and the city of Houston got that infusion of thousands of $2,000 debit cards.

Then there was Waste Management, the garbage collectors, who got some contracts to help clean up, and even Brownie is now running a "disaster services" company.

Oh, but don't forget the most important aspect of Katrina: Democratic voters were moved out of that area. If you recall that map that shows the change between presidential elections and how America was "turned blue" except a swath of red that included New Orleans.

[Kurovski]

6. Really.

The "toxic trailor" scamola in NO alone.

Blackwater. Halliburton.

All the disaster capitilists now being rewarded with taxpayer money for creating financial meltdown.

[slackmaster]

8. Blackwater and Halliburton are small potatoes

They're no better off than anyone else who has managed to stay employed.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

10. Billions are small potatoes?

What's your measure?

[slackmaster]

14. Compared to the economy as a whole, which is (or was) over $10 trillion

Yes, they are just corporations and not particularly large ones.

Compare them to the Big 3 auto makers.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

15. The economy as a whole?

Nothing can exceeed the economy as a whole.

That's your idea of big potatoes?

Incredibly lame. :shrug:

[slackmaster]

21. General Motors is big potatoes

If GM goes under, millions of people will be out of work. It's a whole lot bigger than Halliburton.

Blackwater has a few thousand employees.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

9. Congress/CEOcritters with a vested interest....

...and a host of others....

[ColbertWatcher]

4. As the OP, I appreciate your playing "Devil's Advocate," but ...

... you can't possibly be serious.

[slackmaster]

5. Please tell us how you think the GOP has gained anything from those situations

They just lost a major election, and have been bleeding members.

I note that response D is leading, but can someone who voted for it explain how a fucked up economy does any good for anyone?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

13. A fucked up economy is not designed to do good for anyone.

Just special someone's.

:think:

[ColbertWatcher]

18. "They just lost a major election"

The only one from this last election going to prison is Ted Stevens and not for any of the GOP shenanigans; he only got busted for being individually stupid.

Remind me again who involved in outing a covert CIA agent went to prison? Remind me again who involved in the purging of the U.S. attorneys went to prison? Remind me again who involved in the torture memos went to prison? All the people involved in these crimes will go through the GOP's revolving door. They gained because they'll never be on trial for their crimes.

I voted for A.. I don't think the whole economy will fail any worse than the Great Depression. The banks will get their bailout, so they're safe. I do fear, however, that American manufacturing's last stand (the automakers) will be allowed to be taken over by some new industry that will be union-free, regulation-free and mostly overseas.

Until the GOP is out of education, the justice system and the media, they only lost an election. Their partisan players will go through the revolving door and be absorbed into their "think" tanks to publish advice safely from their education and media sleeper cells and the Federalist Society.

[ColbertWatcher]

29. The GOP's golden boy Bobby "Not Hussein" Jindal is getting a lot of free press. n/t

[ColbertWatcher]

28. WRONG -- I'm gonna have to disagree with your so-called "fatal flaw" theory.

Normal capitalism is when business is done based on the free market, supply and demand, etc.

Disaster capitalism is when businesses exploit--not supply and demand--but that period of lawlessness following a disaster, when people are still in shock.

In fact, in disaster capitalism businesses ignore the market. What the GOP is doing is nothing like old-fashioned gouging, but a complete change of the rules, from the top down.

Klein's first example of Friedman-style economics is Chile. What the Chicago boys did there was not grassroots; they did not supply what the people demanded. The first thing they did was assassinate Allende. They did the opposite of supply and demand; they removed the opposition--not through a convincing marketplace of ideas--but through use of force.

With Katrina, the GOP removed the voters who have disagreed with their failed policies over and over. First by ignoring their cries for help (and thus, allowing them to be removed from the voter rolls by dying), then by evacuating them.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Immediate monetary profit is not the defining characteristic of disaster capitalism. Shock and awe is.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Trajan]

19. Sorry about your short stay ....

[ColbertWatcher]

23. I don't know what it is, but I always seem to drag one out in the open.

I'll post a poll with as many options as I can (including some I would never choose myself) and there is always one who pops in to vote the worst choice.

[opihimoimoi]

25. Bill Clinton had Osama in his sights but Newt stopped the whole thing

Fuck Newt...he caused it all...him and that Gary Bauer dude...

its all in Newts Book...HOW AMERICA GOT DRILLED IN THE ASS

[ColbertWatcher]

30. Countdown kick. n/t

[ColbertWatcher]

31. Saturday kick! n/t