"Please don't bring your teenager to Nebraska," 34 dropped off so far.

[Liberal_in_LA]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/14/nebraska.safe.haven/index.html

Nebraska fears rush to drop off kids before haven law changeStory Highlights
Nebraska Legislature convenes to set age limit on state's "safe haven" law

Law intended so parents could drop off infants at hospitals without being prosecuted

Of the 34 kids dropped off, none has been an infant; 28 have been older than 10

Governor: "Please don't bring your teenager to Nebraska"

By Ed Lavandera
CNN

OMAHA, Nebraska (CNN) -- Nebraska officials said they're concerned about an apparent rush by parents to drop their teenage children off at hospitals before lawmakers change the state's troubled "safe haven" law.

Four children have been dropped off at Nebraska hospitals in the last two days.

The latest cases came the day before the state Legislature kicked off a special session to add an age limit to the law.

On Thursday, a boy, 14, and his 17-year-old sister were dropped off at an Omaha hospital; the girl ran away from the hospital, officials said. A 5-year-old boy was left by his mother at a different hospital, officials said.

The day before, a father flew in from Miami, Florida, to leave his teenage son at a hospital, officials said.

"Please don't bring your teenager to Nebraska," Gov. Dave Heineman said. "Think of what you are saying. You are saying you no longer support them. You no longer love them." Watch as lawmakers convene to change law »

Nebraska's safe haven law was intended to allow parents to hand over an infant anonymously to a hospital without being prosecuted. Of the 34 children who have been dropped off at hospitals, officials said, not one has been an infant.

All but six have been older than 10, according to a Nebraska Department of Health and Human Services analysis.

[grantcart]

1. Now I understand why my family keeps talking about wanting to take me to

visit Nebraska.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

2. More tales from the annals of "Being A Parent Makes You a Better Person"

Don't forget that those of us who are childless-by-choice are the "selfish" ones. :grr:

[ellie]

4. Thank you

That's the first thing I thought of when I read this.

[kevinbgoode]

6. Yes...the selfish ones who are expected to pay through the nose

so that the parents can raise them any way they choose. Then we're told to keep OUR mouths shut, don't form opinions about their education or their often nutcase upbringing. Just keep writing the checks because that's the only time con-servatives believe that "it takes a village."

I was told once that I was selfish for wanting Christmas off work. . .being in an relationship that wasn't "legally recognized" I was told that I should naturally make the sacrifice so that the real "families" can spend the holiday together. I gave it up for a few years...and then they were pissed when I used my seniority to take a holiday that was, apparently, only meant for THEM.

[Withywindle]

8. I hear you.

I am beating myself with a horsehair whip over my selfishness of paying a lot of money for prescription medication and OTC devices combined to make sure I never got pregnant.

I am mourning all the hours (including this one) that I spent praying to the Goddess to make sure menopause would come swiftly.

Meanwhile, over my lifetime I have taken in quite a few homeless shelter dogs and cats, who didn't have the smarts to get neutered. (BUT PEOPLE DO, and if I didn't have endometriosis, I would SO have gotten spayed at puberty if any doc was willing to do it! I'm pretty grateful that I'm pretty much sterile, though, and for that one something-resmembling-a miscarriage-I-might've-had-at-17)

DO NOT want a baby. Not now, not ever. Don't like them, sorry!

[silverojo]

11. I'm child-free, but I don't dislike kids at all

I just know I don't have the resources or patience to raise them.

Now, if only other people would realize this about themselves, you wouldn't have people dropping off their kids and teens here in Nebraska.

WTF is with these people pretending to be Punky Brewster's parents...abandoning their kids at Nebraska hospitals (instead of a parking lot, as in the TV show).

I mean, just HOW MANY YEARS did it take for you to figure out you're not cut out to be a parent?? :mad:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

17. For real.

If people were really being honest with themselves, I'd wager a LOT of people would realize they are not cut out for parenthood. People have kids like it's this item to check off a list. And yeah, it's instinctual too, but so are a lot of things. Just because something's "natural" doesn't mean it's the right thing for you to do.

[seabeyond]

19. that i agree with. absolutely. n/t

[Tallison]

132. Isn't it amazing how casually some people 'get' pregnant

and think, 'Well, I guess I'm in for a baby.' The fate seems to have all the profundity for some teens as hearing their favorite band broke up. Nature's way of taking over the planet, I guess.

My parents had me volunteering at Planned Parenthood (filing stuff, licking envelopes) at 15. I'm 35 and single now, and still afraid of coming home pregnant.

[Xenotime]

82. Exactly. The more resources ruin the environment

That's why choose to be child-free.

[shanti]

131. oh, they realized it

when the cute little kid became a teen! i work in the adoption field and occasionally get calls from adoptive parents who want to set aside their child's adoption because "they can't handle them" anymore.

someone in nebraska wasn't thinking this legislation thru too well...

[DrCory]

66. Rather Than The Whip...

Wear a hairshirt. Far more convenient, less exertion, guaranteed severe discomfort 24/7!

[seabeyond]

9. but but but.... they are not being parents. hence, why they are not better people. n/t

[mrreowwr_kittty]

13. Oh but, I thought as soon as they put the squalling infant in your arms

Your parental instinct kicks in and you are automatically transformed into an unselfish mensch. Oh yeah, and every child in America will grow up to be Einstien or cure cancer - while taking care of all of us in the old age home. So of course every parent should get all kinds of bennies and tax credits, subsidized by us worthless people with no kids.

[seabeyond]

15. hm.... n/t

[Pithlet]

46. Yes, because clearly these cases are the norm.

:eyes:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

47. Oh dear, here comes an offended parent.

:nopity:

I forgot, 99.999% of people who procreate are altruistic saints who carefully thought out the decision beforehand and were absolutely certain that they were financially and emotionally prepared for parenthood. Right. People who abuse, neglect, or just fuck up the heads of their kids are rare anomalies. :sarcasm:

I'd worry about your wounded feelings but I'm too busy being told how "selfish" and "immature" I am for not doing my duty to breed.

[Pithlet]

48. It's so selfless

To come into a thread about abandoned kids and make it all about oneself. Yes, indeed. I don't know how one could call that selfish. It boggles the mind, I tell you.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

51. Here's a newsflash for you:

I was once a kid. And I was abandoned for a while.

Believe it or not, non-parents actually have relevant life experiences too.

On edit: And I'm sure you wouldn't be such a snarky dickhead to parents who post on this thread about how "As a PARENT, I can't IMAGINE...blah..blah..blah..." I guarantee you wouldn't chastise them for "making it all about you".

[Pithlet]

52. I'm sorry.

That's awful that that happened to you. But, please, give people credit. Just because they've had kids doesn't meant they don't know that non-parents have relevant life experiences. Don't go lashing into threads treating people and broad brushing like that. Just because you haven't had any kids doesn't mean that everyone goes around assuming that you're selfish, you know. If people think you're selfish, it could just be partly due to behavior on your part. Because coming into this thread about abandoned kids, and moaning about your treatment as a child-free person came across as just a little self centered, not knowing your history. I'm sorry, but it did. That didn't offend me as a parent. That offended me as a human being. But, I am truly sorry that you were abandoned as a child. No one should ever have to go through that. Ever. It is true that some people aren't fit to be parents, and it's awful that innocent children have to pay the price.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

53. Thank you. And I'm sorry for being so defensive. nt

[druidity33]

69. thank you...

i was getting ready to be much less diplomatic.

"self-centered" was a word i was intending to use as well...

cheers

[mrreowwr_kittty]

99. What's stopping you? Bring it on.

I apologized to the other guy, but I'm sensing that you'd really like to unleash your sense of superiority and entitlement on me. I'm ready anytime.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

105. Because being angry at selfish parents who travel 100s of miles to dump their kids in NE

Makes ME self-centered, right?

Oh right, I mentioned that I'm childfree by choice and made a wry joke about being called "selfish" for it. That makes ME a terrible, terrible person. Far more reprehensible than...oh say...a man who flew with his teenaged son from Miami and then proceeded to dump him at a random hospital and take off. Oh I forgot...he's a parent so of course there's some highly legitimate reason for his actions and I'm sure he had no other options in Florida. :sarcasm:

But remember, I'm the one who's self-centered. :eyes:

[tigereye]

130. to be fair, people who would do this must feel incredibly desperate -

this type of thing is very sad.

I'm just always surprised when threads like these have what seems like parent-bashing in them. We don't know these people and most of us, parents included, have no idea what they are going through and what caused them to make that kind of choice.


I became a parent late in life. It is very hard sometimes, but I am so glad to have my son in my life. Parenthood is challenging and rewarding, both. He is a wonderful kid.


I have no ill will, nor do I feel any sense of superiority to anyone who chose not to have kids. That is a personal choice and it is unfortunate that anyone would denigrate that choice.

[Ladyhawk]

118. My childhood experiences led to my not having children.

I honestly believe my parents did the best they could. My father was perpetually angry, distant and physically abusive, but he was merely acting out the role his father played for him. And to his credit, he wasn't nearly the monster my paternal grandfather was. Still, it left its mark on me.

Also, I am of the opinion that it is inherently abusive to raise a child as a fundamentalist Christian, teaching them that God loves you, but if you don't do exactly as he says he's going to put you in hell to roast for ever and ever and ever. I got the full treatment: home, church, school. It put a total mindfuck on me.

Fundamentalists should not be parents, but they will never acknowledge this and they are the first to start saying those who choose childlessness are selfish. Indeed, fundies are often guilty of over-breeding. No wonder this world is so fucked up.

[High Plains]

112. Wow, talk about snarky dickheads!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

122. You wanna piece of me too?

Hey, bring it on. I'm apparently the World's Biggest Asshole now. I'm order-of-magnitude worse than a father who flies with his 11 year old son from Miami and dumps him at a random hospital in Nebraska. Oh no, I'm far, far, more reprehensible than that. I dared to insult the Holy Cult of Parenthood! All parents are martyred saints, even the ones who drive hundreds of miles to dump their teenagers in Nebraska, why just read this thread and you'll see!

Whatsa matter? Am I being too snarky?

[uppityperson]

125. No, you are passing severe judgment on people you know little about.

And no, not the World's Biggest Asshole. Just a very judgmental person being critical of people in situations you don't know about. I'd say tyeing with some other DUers, not WBA, yet.

[Lorien]

54. Amen. n/t

[loudsue]

91. Exactly.

Just think of the nightmare these kids are going through knowing full good and well their parents don't want them.

:cry:

[OregonProg]

3. wow

this makes me sick.

[uppityperson]

5. Statistics on the kids.... (and my heart breaks for them and the parents)

The Department of Health and Human Services published a background profile on 30 of the 34 safe haven cases. The report found:

# Twenty-seven children have received mental health treatment.

# 28 children come from single-parent homes.

# 22 children had a parent with a history of incarceration.

# 20 of the 30 children are white; eight are black.

[silverojo]

14. Gee, I wonder why they're from single-parent homes

Maybe because the other parent realized how fucking insane their partners were, and fled for their lives?

[uppityperson]

16. Maybe the single parent took the kid and fled from the fucking insane one.

Why would a parent flee from a fucking insane one, fearing for their lives, yet leave their child(ren)?

It is difficult for me to pass judgment on them since I don't know the situations.

[Mojorabbit]

39. I always imagine the worst

as in perhaps a single mother lost her job, has no support system, and is trying to do what is best for the child. The whole situation makes me sad. The children have to be devastated.

[frogcycle]

80. I think the presumption was

that the one who dropped off the kid was fucking insane by definition

[intheflow]

49. Or maybe single parent homes because the other parent is in prison or dead.

[uppityperson]

62. "22 children had a parent with a history of incarceration."

Maybe you missed this part.

[EFerrari]

7. What kind of insanity is this. I couldn't even take a cat to a shelter

let alone, my teen aged child. :crazy:

[soothsayer]

25. Yipes, are they planning to gas the kids?

[EFerrari]

26. Lol. No, I just mean, I couldn't physically do it.

Which is why I have six cats. Two lovely adoptees and four really ugly, behavioral, unadoptable ones.

Taking a kid to a hospital is not like dumping a pet in a parking lot or in a shelter, thank FSM. My heart goes out to those people, all of them. :(

[tblue37]

73. Well, having raised both cats and teenagers, and having sometimes

temporarily taken in teens who got too obnoxious for their parents to deal with for a while, I have to say that cats are way easier to take care of.

I love kids--even teens--and I am good with them, so in the past when teens from families I know went through particularly obnoxious periods, I would let them stay with me for a while--from a few days to even a couple of months at a time--to give them and their families a break from the constant clashes.

But I have seen situations where the families really were at their wits' end trying to handle a difficult teenager—and teens can be incredibly difficult to live with, some far more than others.

The families I know would never have abandoned their teens, but having watched them struggle to deal with the kids, I can understand how more precariously situated parents, especially an overwhelmed single mother with many other strikes against her being able to successfully handle the job of parenting, might throw in the towel--and maybe even think she is doing what will have the best outcome for the kid.

I imagine the parents are not well-informed about how kids are mishandled in the foster care system and that some think they are actually giving their kids a chance at a better life and a chance to get much needed counseling that they can't figure out how to arrange or afford.

The fact that several of these kids have had mental health treatment suggests that they are more difficult than the norm. Although I willingly took in difficult teens that I knew, the ones I took in were difficult in the sense that teens become obnoxious, not in the sense that they needed mental health treatment because of Oppositional Defiant Disorder or some other serious mental health problem.

No doubt many parents who abandon their kids are being selfish--but a lot of them are so desperate that they can’t figure out what to do, and to them this screwed up Nebraska law probably seems a way out of an impossible situation for themselves and even for their kids.

[seabeyond]

10. just crazy. i am stunned, that anyone would interpret this as dropping off a kid

boggles the mind

[petronius]

12. I think the idea of a rush is actually sicker than the original problem

"C'mon honey - we better dump this brat before they change the law!" :puke:

On the one hand, it's so easy to condemn parents who will abandon a teenager, but on the other hand I can't believe that anyone does this lightly. What does it say about our society that we have any members who believe that dropping a child at a fire station is their best option?

(On the other other hand, we apparently have a few people who believe that killing a child to free up more time for bar-hopping is a cool idea, so who knows...)

[Quantess]

20. Think of all those dogs and cats dumped or abandoned.

People think pet dumping is bad...these parents are dumping their own teenagers! For some people, child dumping may be a really easy thing to do, sadly.

Your last comment: is that about (WHERE'S CAYLEE?!!) Caylee Anthony and Casey Anthony?

[petronius]

28. Yes, that's the one I was thinking about (the one in FL), but I will admit I haven't

followed that story any deeper than the headlines, so I may be being unfair.

When you think about it beyond the level of immediate disgust, it's very complicated. I personally believe that I couldn't even drop off my cat, let alone a child, but as Fumesucker points out below it's not impossible that at least some of these parents believe it's for the best.

So, I'm really torn: is it more about good but beaten down people who have been failed by their families and communities, or is it about the lowest of the low performing a despicable act that strains the imagination? Or is it both?

[Divine Discontent]

37. and yet, GAYS aren't allowed to adopt kids in several states. eom

[Tallison]

135. Watch it - next they'll only be allowed to adopt teenagers

So much work to be done.

[Quantess]

40. When you're talking about human children, maybe it really is in their best interest.

After all, nobody will give your child a lethal injection or put them in a gas chamber just because you can't care for them anymore, as is the case of dumped pets.

But, if you can't take care of your child, who will? Foster parents, that's who. Foster parents range widely in terms of their care. Some are great, some are mediocre, some are abusive. Foster parents don't have the emotional connection to the children that parents do, which is why, even when children came from terrible homes, they often want to return to their parents.

These stories are as old as humans have been civilized. I think about 8 year olds kicked out of their homes, told they have to make it on their own, back in the old days. In our recent prosperous times, we haven't had much of that, and that is good for everyone. Let's hope our society doesn't regress to having 8 year old organized crime gangs.

[Fumesucker]

18. I have a little different take on this than most of you I think..

Possibly due to the fact that we spent three months in the early 80s living in a tent with a three year old child while we tried to get enough money together for rent/deposit/utility deposits, etc.

I can see how "dropping off" your kids would show more love than keeping them with you, under certain conditions.

If you've been incarcerated your chances of getting a decent job in this economy vary from nil to zip, it's hard to take care of kids when you don't have any money.

[EFerrari]

23. People go through more, quietly, invisibly, than most of us can ever imagine.

:(

[Fumesucker]

29. A painful truth..

I'm often saddened by the judgmental finger-pointing I see here.

A lot of things that get people's ire up, I look at and think, "There but for the grace of the God I don't believe in go I".

My wife's sister was homeless with a four year old child about a dozen years ago, she didn't want to ask for help and they ended up sleeping in her car for a week or two until we found out what was going on and gave her our "spare" room.

It only took a year after she moved out before her laugh didn't literally raise the hair on the back of my neck.. :)

[cabluedem]

59. Now we all know where many a hardened criminal is made. On the street. Young. nt

[Liberal_in_LA]

31. One guy in the article flies from Florida with the kid..so he had funds for a round trip ticket and

a one way ticket.

[EFerrari]

35. Well, we know he managed to buy them. We don't know if he actually had the money.

:(

[mrreowwr_kittty]

86. Well if he didn't buy them outright, then he had sufficient credit or frequent flyer miles

Or maybe someone else bought them. Either way, the man deliberately planned and executed a trip to Nebraska, from Florida, to dump his teenaged son at a Nebraska hospital. Just left him there and didn't even bother to stick around to make sure the boy would be okay.

[EFerrari]

102. I know you're angry with these parents and that seems reasonable to me.

It just isn't my own reaction. I wonder what happened.

Most of those kids have psych problems. One of mine did when I was a single parent, and trying to find support OR treatment for him almost sent me right into a bottle. In this area, you used to have to wait for months to get a bed in a treatment facility for a teenager. I could barely work. Twice a week, I'd get to work and there would already be a call from the school. I never knew when there was going to be a violent outburst, couldn't really plan anything. It was exhausting. We were lucky because there was family all around us. I don't know what I would have done had we been really alone and a little more broke.

Single parents of teenagers don't have much support in any of our institutions. Babies are cute and so are little kids. Teenagers are big and gawky and often surly and no one really wants to deal with them. The way we've arranged the care of young people here doesn't make sense to me.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

107. If the option had been available to dump your kid at a hospital in NE would you have done it?

Even at your wit's end? Would you have packed up the car, or bought the bus or plane ticket, brought your son to some random hospital and left him there to god knows what fate? Granted, it's slightly better than just dumping him on the side of the road, but not much. For if you're having trouble getting services for him where you are, why would it be better in Nebraska?

[EFerrari]

108. The guy could just be a selfish prick. He also could have his own issues

-- like impulsivity. Nothing like an impulsive, manic parent on a tear. Stir in enough money to really act out and bad things will happen. I'm thinking the long distance may have a shame thing attached to it but, if he was trying to hide his behavior, that didn't work out for him. Or, maybe the dad was thinking he wanted his kid away from whatever social scene the kid was in. How can we tell, from this remove?

[wellstone dem]

114. I agree, I wonder if the parent figured this was the only way to get the child help

I waited months for an appointment for my daughter with a psychiatrist. I couldn't leave my teenager home alone, and I'm a single parent. Fortunately, I have a job that gave me some flexibility. I have family that could help.

FWIW, I used the phrase "single parent" with ease and calm, until I became one. Please offer the single parents you know help, a day off, a meal. It is harder than you know.

[EFerrari]

115. So much harder.

:hug:
:grouphug:

[RedCappedBandit]

45. I hear ya

but the whole situation is heart wrenching
obviously
sigh...

[Lorien]

56. But there are people out there who just don't give a damn about their

children.

I have a friend who was dropped off at his grandparents house at age two, along with his two brothers, by his parents. His parents were just tired of the responsibility, so they ditched them. They disappeared without a word for 10 years. Then when my friend was 12 his grandparents died, and his mother decided that she would take them back. By this time his parents were divorced, and the father, upon hearing that their mom was about to take the boys back, sued for custody. He got them, but then ended up leaving them alone in a trailer for most of the time, without food or heat, while he spent "quality time" with Jack Daniels. Needless to say my friend is fairly messed up from it all. There are many people out there who should NEVER become parents!

[Fumesucker]

58. You're right, that's true.

But we really have no way of knowing the circumstances of the parents involved, I'm just trying to point out that in at least some cases there might be another side to the story.

I strongly suspect that most of these kids are better off for having been dropped off. It certainly sounds like your friend and their siblings would have been better off if that had happened to them.

[uppityperson]

64. There are. But there are other instances, and we don't know enough about these people to judge.

There are people who should not be parents. I don't know the situations of the parents in this story, not enough to judge. I do know that there are situations which are heartbreaking.

[bean fidhleir]

96. "There are many people out there who should NEVER become parents!"

True. But look how hard it is to get your tubes tied or a hysto, if you don't want kids.

There are still far too many physicians who think they have the right to make women's reproductive choices - and they always come down on the side of breed breed breed.

[verdalaven]

67. We've been through some desperate times -

We've never lived in a tent, but we did spend four months crowded in a brother-in-laws guest bedroom (for which we were very grateful). I am glad you made it through and sorry you had to experience that.

I am with you, I don't automatically believe the parents were horrible or selfish, just desperate. Of the parents who were incarcerated, what is the likelihood that drug addiction was a problem? Addiction transforms a normally good human being into someone who shouldn't be a parent and anyone can become an addict. As a child of an alcoholic, I can attest to that, personally.

But, whether the parents were making the ultimate sacrifice for the sake of their kids or not; the reasons the kids were dropped off really don't matter. It is abandonment. The child may, someday, look back and understand, but for years this event will shape their feelings about themselves and the world in general. I really hope they have good psychological counseling in place for these kids. They are going to need it.

[Fumesucker]

68. It's amazing how little it takes to make you grateful sometimes..

Perspective is a funny thing and one of the few positive aspects of getting old(er).

Actually we kind of made living in a tent a bit of an adventure, took the lemon life handed to us and made some lemonade. If it had been winter or somewhere with a harsh climate we probably would have gone with a different plan but a tent allowed us to save the most money the fastest. In three months we put away enough money to upgrade our vehicle, have a cash reserve and still move into a fairly nice place.

[ThePowerofWill]

93. Yeah, i agree with your position.

Having seen many bad, bad family situations ranging from addiction, poverty, and medical reasons i know all to well how awful things can get. Sometimes people just find themselves in situations that many cannot even conceive. People with kids often come to the conclusion that it is better for the child just to hand them over to the authorities. It does not sound good on the surface, but if you can't feed, clothe, or house the child it may be true.

I never judge people because of things like this because i don't know anything about what they have/are going through or what caused it. For the masses it's cool to make snap judgments, and scream of some form of justice, or retribution.

[Tallison]

136. I recall a Dr. Phil episode recently

in which parents (incredibly) appeared and confessed they were so at their limits, they no longer trusted themselves to not physically hurt the kids. I suppose those were the brave ones, and lucky, since they walked away from the show with the promise of free resources.

I couldn't help but wonder, how many more such parents are out there, unable to confess such a thing to someone who can help? Certainly better to safely abandon that to physically harm a child, but what a heartbreaking point for the child.

[orleans]

21. way to go nebraska....idiots--whoever created this law

my god! i think it is disgraceful that children are dropped off like this. and these "adults" can get away with it? wtf?

put yourself in the child's shoes.

whoever were the brains that passed this fucking law are obviously incapable of legislating. they should all be relieved of their legislative duties.

[seabeyond]

22. safe haven law isnt a bad thing. it is the parents interpretation of dropping of infant (teenager?)

this law is in other places to. for those that have the baby and to prevent them from killing them or other, like has happened. teenager has baby and flushes down toilet, puts in garbage can

this is not intended for children or teenagers to be dropped off

[orleans]

41. i understand and think it is a good law for infants

but not, just as you said, for children & teens.

[EFerrari]

27. I don't know what to think. They may have accidentally done these kids a favor.

Can you imagine growing up with a parent who'd just as soon drop you off at a hospital? :scared:

[Fumesucker]

36. Can you imagine growing up with a parent..

Whose best remaining option is to drop you off at a hospital?

I suspect that more than a few of these parents are at their wit's and rope's end.

My parents were both adults through the Depression, there aren't that many people in the US today who have much of an idea of just how bad things can get.

[EFerrari]

38. My single mom was an alcoholic and literally out of her mind

for about half of my childhood. I was the adult in the house after about age 11. My poor little brother had to eat my "cooking" until Mom sobered up when he was about 9. Things can get really, really bad and in the nicest suburban neighborhoods.

At least those kids are safe right now. That's a lot more than a lot of kids have.

[Fumesucker]

43. Liberals are supposed to be good at "compassion"

But like most conservatives I think many of them have to experience the dark side of life before they get an emotional grasp on what it's really like to be down and out.

Kudos to you on taking care of your brother, it's a good thing that kids like mac 'n cheese, eh?

[orleans]

42. you've got a point.

but my gut reaction is to punish those adults -- somehow

[bread_and_roses]

76. exactly. and are five-year olds and teens not also entitled to a safe haven?

Why are people talking about "abusing the law" and not about safety and care for the children - for all children? and maybe if every State had a place where ANY parent could drop off a child of any age - and where older children who felt themselves in danger could present themselves - we'd see so many dropped off that we'd begin to re-think our medieval policies and customs on parent's "ownership" of their children and how we might take care of our children were we a sane society.

[Disorientedx3]

101. I agree strongly.

I have a teen aged foster child... if foster care were only for "deserving" infants and young children.. he'd still be that young male street criminal everyone likes to bash, instead of a lazy teenager still sleeping at noon on a saturday. People love fetuses, babies and cute little kids... but older kids and teens who are troubled need the love and care just as much. If Nebraska is concerned about the out-of-state kids, maybe they should amend the law to address legal state residents only, instead of slamming the door in the face of older kids in their state who need safe havens. If my state had such a law, i'd support it.

[EFerrari]

104. Children need just as much protection when they're past the cute years.

[Tallison]

137. As do dogs and cats

which is why seven years ago I started to adopt geri-cats from the shelter. They're always the hardest to adopt out, especially the ones with a medical history. I soon learned an upside to adopting those animals, which is that the turnover at home's higher, for a higher net adoption rate. Last February I adopted a lumpy, limping, wheezy, and arthritic orange tabby who just had two teeth extracted. His family dumped him after 12 years because of vet bills, which I empathize with, since it could've been b/w vet bills and new shoes for the kids, for all I know. He (Oz) is such a lovey-dove, and soooo grateful for the care!

ETA...Oz and me (I think he was wheezing in that one):

[dysfunctional press]

24. the story was on abc nightly news tonite...

and charlie gibson also mentioned that the earliest the law could be changed was next friday.

with press like that, i'm guessing that there's going to be a LOT of kids left there in the next 7 days.

[hughee99]

30. I suggested to my parents that they bring my freeper brother...

he's 36.

[Liberal_in_LA]

34. lol.

[Blue_Tires]

32. in the original intent, a safe haven law isn't a bad thing

but it is clear some people have been flat-out abusing it as a cop-out...

i posted a story a couple of months ago about the woman who DROVE from MICHIGAN to ditch a teen then drove home....

[DU GrovelBot]

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[RedCappedBandit]

44. this is so fucking horrible

i hate this god damned planet

[mrreowwr_kittty]

50. To the people on this thread defending these parents:

Get real. I don't care how desperate you are and fucked up your situation is, driving hundreds of miles so that you can dump your teenaged kid in a Nebraska hospital is about as lowdown, irresponsible, and cowardly as it gets. No matter where you live, there is a process whereby you can relinquish your parental rights and have relatives or foster care take custody of your children. But it generally requires going to court, and these selfish chickenshits don't want to go through it. Flame away but that's MHO.

[Fumesucker]

57. Going to court takes time and money...

Something I suspect a lot of these parents don't have.

Not to mention that, to the poor, the court system is basically enemy territory, nothing good comes from the courts for the average poor person (or at least it certainly seems that way sometimes).

I'm not necessarily defending any specific individual but it's remarkably easy in our dog-eat-dog capitalist utopia to reach a point where you are simply not capable of taking care of yourself, let alone another human being totally dependent on you.

There are entire homeless families living in cars in just about every town and city in the country, and it's going to get a lot worse before it gets any better.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

83. One of the parents had enough money to fly with his son from Miami.

Surely, that guy had enough to pay court costs.

[Fumesucker]

84. That point has already been made and rebutted on the thread..

We know the man got airline tickets, whether or how he paid for them is unknown.

And in my experience, hiring a good lawyer (and, by Sturgeon's law, most of them aren't good) costs considerably more than an airline ticket or two.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

85. You do not need to hire a private lawyer to relinquish custody of your kids

If necessary, one will be appointed to you if you can't afford an attorney. Stop defending these assholes.

[Fumesucker]

92. Poor people don't know these things..

And as I pointed out upthread, the court is enemy territory for most poor people.

I'll defend any damn body I please, you aren't the boss of me.

What is it about groupthink, some of you people are as bad as the Goopers?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

97. Poor people know a helluva lot more about the system than most.

At any rate, you are arguing a red herring. You have no idea what the economic situation is of all those parents who travelled from other states, including one who flew round trip from Miami with his son, to dump their kids at a hospital in Nebraska. You are speculating that they are all impoverished because it creates a better platform from which to make excuses for them and guilt-trip anyone who criticizes their behavior.

[uppityperson]

110. I am sorry for your history but you do not know the situation of these parents either.

You are speculating also. Cannot a person criticize behavior AND feel heartbroken for them also?

[Fumesucker]

113. LOL... If poor people were so good with the system then they wouldn't be poor..

I'm sure that some of the parents are scumbags..

I'd also be willing to bet that some are just people who have reached the end of their rope for one reason or another.

And wealthy people just ship their kids off to an institution..

I'm not trying guilt trip anyone, that is your conscience prodding you.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

87. BTW, the point has NOT been rebutted successfully.

However the man managed to get plane tickets, (not cheap these days) he got them. He was able to get expensive plane tickets but not able to figure out a better option than dumping his kid at a Nebraska hospital. I don't know the guy personally, nor what his situation is, but his actions vis a vis his son have all the hallmarks of someone who is a selfish prick.

[Fumesucker]

94. You don't even like kids..

As you pointed out early in the thread..

Why do you even care, do you just want to bash someone?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

95. Please link to the post where I said I don't like kids.

You can't. Stop lying and putting words in my mouth.

I said I was "childfree by choice". The fact that you get "don't like kids" from that reveals more about your mentality than it does about me. The fact that a person likes kids doesn't mean they are suited for parenthood.

[BlueIris]

61. No flames here; these "parents" are sub-human.

This is terrible.

[Fleshdancer]

55. I'm angry that parents are doing this

This is a very selfish, hurtful, and disgusting thing to do to a child that probably didn't have the best life to begin with.

[Fumesucker]

60. Would they be better off sleeping in the car?

That could well be the alternative for some of these kids..

I know whereof I speak, it's happened in my family, I told the tale upthread if you're interested.

This is the kind of thing that happens more frequently when the economy gets bad, it's bad now and is going to get a lot worse I fear.

[druidity33]

72. THANK YOU

I swear i think some of the people here are being completely blinded by their emotions.

I think any of us who've really SEEN or BEEN desperate can to some extent envision the tragic circumstance where an otherwise whole family can be rendered utterly broken.

Thank You for understanding.


What the people on this thread AREN'T DOING is "putting on someone else's shoes". Why don't we all take a breath and imagine what would have to happen for us to give up our OWN child? Can you imagine how MONUMENTALLY CRUSHING your life would have to be in order to consider such a thing? Rather than imagine these parents as worthless know-nothings, i see them as SUFFERING from tragic loss and unable to cope.

I can imagine a few scenarios of the top of my head whereby any number of my poorest friends could be forced out of existence... and their children TAKEN from them.

:(

[Fumesucker]

79. No need to thank me, I'm just callin' 'em the way I sees 'em..

And I agree, there is a great deal of emotion and not a whole lot of thought going on in some people's heads. I have hope though, there haven't been any really nasty responses to my posts and I have been kind of expecting one or two.

People who are too empathic in our society get burned out and turn cynical quite often I think.

[tblue37]

74. Or under a bridge. Many homeless people also don't have cars. nt

[Fumesucker]

78. You're right about bridges..

I just used cars because I have had the situation happen in my own family.

And it wouldn't surprise me that a lot more people here on DU can relate to sleeping in the car than out and out total homelessness without even an enclosed space to sleep.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

103. You are assuming that every one of these parents is in dire financial straits.

While I'm sure some of them are, how do you explain the guy who flew from Miami with his son and then flew back? One round-trip ticket and one one-way. That ain't cheap.

My parents abandoned me and my sister for 2 years. They were not poor by any stretch of the imagination at the time.

[Fumesucker]

127. No I'm not making that assumption..

And since you haven't raised children you have no idea at all of how expensive it is, a couple of plane tickets is a drop in the bucket.

I misstated your position upthread, I'm sorry.. You don't hate children, apparently you hate parents.

And I can't say I blame you given what you just revealed about your own history.

But we all bring our own histories and prejudices to any conversation we engage in, I have my own reasons for feeling the way I do.

[Fleshdancer]

109. is abandonment better than 1st world economic hardship?

First of all, not all kids are abandoned in Nebraska because their parents lack resources. A woman drove to Nebraska from Georgia to drop off her 12 yr old son. I watched the interview of her crying and explaining that he was too hard to raise. The kid was getting in trouble frequently and instead of doing her job, mom decides to throw him away. I have zero sympathy for her.

I have no idea what it's like to be homeless so I'm not going to pretend that I do. I do know how hard (and rewarding) it is to raise a child and the idea of not having food for her makes me sick to my stomach. Having said that, giving her up is not an option. In a world where parents are clinging to their children in times of famine and genocide, I have a hard time accepting the idea of Americans dropping their kids off because of money...not with the amount of resources available to them.

[uppityperson]

111. Is taking a child to a safe place = to "throwing him away"?

That is what I disagree with. I think simply abandoning a child, or moving away from them without making provisions for them = "throwing them away". Or giving them to a sexually abusive/physically abusive/psychologically abusive person is worse.

[cabluedem]

63. On the other hand we could build factories to supply "Soylent Green"...

..to the many screwed up parents who make messed up children, which makes a f**ked up planet.

Will the insanity of human breeding never end? :think:

ZPG Now!

[Fumesucker]

65. The US birth rate is already *below* ZPG..

Only immigration is expanding the size of the population in the US.

If you want people to cut their birth rate the only method that really works is to educate them and make them relatively wealthy, poor ignorant people have lots of kids.

[cabluedem]

128. That wont happen in this global economical meltdown. nt

[123infinity]

70. Apparently Father Flanagan has fallen from grace in that tiny state with no room to spare.

:eyes:

[Deja Q]

71. Only 34? Since the lunacy came to pass, I'd expected a thousand unruly brats to be dropped by now.

:shrug:

[datasuspect]

75. whatever happened to being given to the gypsies or the circus

sounds more fun than nebraska.

[bread_and_roses]

77. To all the child-and-parent-hating posters whining about their taxes

We all pay taxes to help provide for children because a society cannot function without healthy and educated workforce. Where do you think the doctors, nurses, engineers, garbage collectors, sewer-maintainers, road-builders etc. that you rely on come from? And who pays the taxes that will provide your social security, medicare, etc. when you are old and unable to work? Who will be the nursing home attendants - if not the children of others?

A sane society understands that the welfare of its' children is the responsibility of all adults.

Of course, those who call non-parenting adults "selfish" or such-like are idiots. But I doubt too many of such idiots are in the ranks of progressives, or hang out on this Board. I see far more child-hating than non-procreating adult hating here.

You are also missing the larger point of the problem illustrated by the incidents in Nebraska. First, that we have insufficient supports for parenting in this capitalist, "ownership" society, which means that you pay LESS than you need to for the welfare of children.

And on an even bigger frame, perhaps we should re-think the viability of the nuclear family, or at least make sure there are options for those who buy that construct and then either find out themselves that they are dangerous to the children they bring into the world, or prove themselves to be so if they lack the self-awareness to realize it themselves? Of course, the latter means that we agree to accept that millions of children will be abused horrifically and even murdered by the very adults who are supposed to love and protect them.

edit sp

[EFerrari]

98. We don't even know what horrible trouble the family is in, in this country.

You make very good points. The children are always shorted for Wall Street and the social fallout is brutal and expensive and needless. And parents who can't cope within those vulnerable nuclear units, subject as they are to our practice of serial monogamy, are treated with contempt and hostility

.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

121. So many things wrong with this post I don't know where to start

1. I do not resent paying taxes for schools and social support for needy children. Nor do I begrudge your dependent tax deductions. What irritates me is the child tax credit ($1000 per child) that goes to middle class families. That was a valentine from Bill Clinton to a large voting bloc and a massive transfer of wealth from one group (the childless) to another (families with children). It's hideously unfair and a colossal waste of money that could be going to things like, oh say, universal health care.

2. You are correct that today's children are going to be filling many of the occupations you listed in the future. But not every child grows up to be a productive citizen, do they? Today's children are also tomorrow's criminals. You have no idea how your kids are going to turn out so if you want to lecture me to shut up about the tax breaks and bennies you get for being a parent because "my kid will be taking care of you someday!" you are leaving the door open to me to respond with "well if your child turns out to be a drain on society can we get our money back?". Your children are not insurance policies. Not for you, and not for me.

3. "I see far more child-hating than non-procreating adult hating here." Please. Link to all these posts where childfree people express hatred for children. You can't. Our disdain is reserved for their entitlement-addled parents. Stop exaggerating and stop hiding behind your kids like Sarah Palin. You are not a long-suffering saint because you procreated. Most of the world does bend over backwards to kiss the butts of parents most of the time and it's funny to see the way y'all come unglued the minute someone isn't doing it.

4. "You are also missing the larger point of the problem illustrated by the incidents in Nebraska. First, that we have insufficient supports for parenting in this capitalist, "ownership" society, which means that you pay LESS than you need to for the welfare of children." Oh I see, being a worthless childless person, I should be paying even more than I am now. Meanwhile, they should be doubling your child tax credit, do I have that right? Meanwhile, did you know that as a childless person, I qualify for practically no public assistance whatsoever? No welfare, no foodstamps, no matter how low my income is. No Medicaid in my state if I make $850 a month. Yet if I got pregnant I could make up to 3X as much and qualify for full health care benefits for me and my child. Does that seem fair to you? Non-parents, when they are making money, are seen as sources of money to subsidize families with children. When we are no longer making money, we can fuck off and die, essentially.

5. And on an even bigger frame, perhaps we should re-think the viability of the nuclear family, or at least make sure there are options for those who buy that construct and then either find out themselves that they are dangerous to the children they bring into the world, or prove themselves to be so if they lack the self-awareness to realize it themselves? Of course, the latter means that we agree to accept that millions of children will be abused horrifically and even murdered by the very adults who are supposed to love and protect them. We could start by working toward becoming a society where it is okay not to be a parent, especially when it's a conscious decision. We could stop rewarding indiscriminate breeding while punishing responsible people who choose not to.

[frogcycle]

81. actually, while this is a law that backfired...

would it not be a good thing if society as a whole was willing to care for those in desperate need? One has to figure that these are extreme cases - either the kid has become incorrigible, into drugs, crime etc. and uncontrollable to the parent, or there is such poverty that the parent is desperate to get them fed and housed.

rather than saying "you bred him/her, now you deal with it" only to inherit the antisocial criminal that results, wouldn't such things as "boys town" and some decently-run orphanages like the old "poor farm" concept of fifty-plus years ago be better than this? There were bad stories (just read Dickens) but there COULD be progressive efforts and some level of success...

[madmom]

88. This is so terribly sad : (

[THUNDER HANDS]

89. if every state had this law

this would be a nation-wide problem, hundreds of thousands of kids would be given away. It would be like stray dogs and cats.

[EFerrari]

106. Maybe someone would start thinking seriously about the American family.

We don't seem to learn very well when everything is going fine. It might take a catastrophe like that for us to get serious.

[Berry Cool]

90. This situation has all the makings of a modern horror movie plot.

Imagine it...all the abandoned kids dropped off in Nebraska somehow manage to find each other, collectively withdraw from civilization, teach each other how to hunt and kill, and form an army of children and teenagers that marches forth seeking revenge against adult society for rejecting them.

Come on. You know it would be a hit.

"Revenge of the Foundlings...coming soon to a theater near you."

[TexasObserver]

100. Wasn't that a line from a Jimmy Buffet song?

"Please don't bring your teenager to Nebraska ...."

[Vickers]

116. I don't think I could get pissed off enough to leave my kids in Nebraska.

:P

[TexasObserver]

117. "Please come to Omaha, she said 'No'"

more Jimmy Buffet, same tune

[JVS]

133. Well kids, now we gotta cross Nebraska. No fighting or your asses are getting ditched.

[goforit]

119. Wow...What a dysfunctional society. Being a parent is the most rewarding gift

a person could ever ever have.
OMG...How my soul is crushed with pain.

[JanMichael]

120. omg, could this thread possibly attract more judgemental, ugly posts?

There is no way to know why someone chooses to abandon their kids.

Jesus Christ, we have basically good jobs, not too much debt, cars that run, and a relatively stable lifestyle, and yet---we get tired, and stressed out.

Life in the US right now is stressful as all fucking get out for people who are supporting 15 pound (give or take) terriers and kitties. I can't even imagine having to worry about health care for a child--fuck, it's scary enough being grownups with insurance.

Why all the bullshit on this thread?

Goddamn, this is like reading FR.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

123. I know a woman in Tucson who put her 2 kids in foster care.

She currently lives with her multi-millionaire boyfriend. He paid for her nose job and breast implants. The kids are still in foster care. She can't be bothered to go get them. Granted, it's one anecdote but the point is that not every parent who abandons their child is valiantly struggling.

IMHO, every one of those parents who left kids in Nebraska should be tracked down and investigated. It may be that some of them were coping with a desperate situation and need support and it may be that others are selfish asswads who should be prosecuted. Maybe it's something in between for a lot of them. What I do know is that dumping your preteen or teenaged kid at a random hospital hundreds of miles away is just fucking wrong, even if some dopey legislature mistakenly wrote a law saying you could.

[uppityperson]

124. !

:hug:

[EFerrari]

138. I don't think so. I hope not. n/t

[SOS]

126. ""Do not judge me as a parent. I love my son" Brown said. "There is just no help"

Where is the Republican concern for the sanctity of human life now?
Where is the compassionate conservatism?

Answer: "Don't bring them to Nebraska!"

Hypocrites.

[tigereye]

129. that's very sad....

I wish people felt that they had better options than leaving their kids in another state. :(

[JVS]

134. yep. sad indeed