Al Franken v. Norm Coleman issue: If someone didn't sign absentee ballot envelope...

[Eric J in MN]

...then should his vote count?

http://www.startribune.com/politics/state/34485189.html?page=2&c=y


Mark Jeranek, who voted absentee in Beltrami County and whose ballot was rejected because he did not sign an outside envelope, said he has been approached several times by the Franken campaign asking him to sign an affidavit affirming that he did vote and that he wants his vote counted.

Should people who vote absentee be required to sign the outside envelope?

If they missed that instruction but sign an affidavit that they voted, then should their vote count?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. It shouldn't count.

The sig affirms the validity of the vote. Without it there is no way to tell if the ballot box has been stuffed. Plus, the sig instructions are on the envelope at least twice.

[renie408]

4. Is there anywhere to sign on the inside of the envelope?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

10. Yes. It is on the inside flap where you lick the glue. nt

[Eric J in MN]

9. If a man says that is his ballot, and there were no other ballots received...

...associated with him for that election, and his return address is on the envelope, then isn't the evidence that it's his ballot?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

11. The address changes things for me. It becomes more of a gray area.

[Eric J in MN]

12. I don't know if there is a space for a return address on MN absentee ballot envelopes...

...but that is my best guess of how they knew that his ballot was rejected.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

13. In WA, the upper left of the outside envelope has a space for a return addy.

I'm sure that's where they got it. Plus, there's a bar code on the ballot.

[hlthe2b]

22. If like mine, there was a name/address label on the envelope

computer generated, that certifies that that was the ballot meant for the requesting registered voter.

[hlthe2b]

20. see my post #18

[w4rma]

33. If he's signing an affidavit saying that that is his vote, then it should count.

They obviously don't have this guy down as voted in person. I will bet you that many people are wary of putting their signature on the front of an envelope, with their (return) address, for just anyone to copy and forge.

[renie408]

2. No, you probably shouldn't be required to sign the OUTSIDE of the envelope

and yes, their vote should count.

[TexasProgresive]

6. How then do you validate that the person on the envelope

actually is the one who voted.

My wife voted by mail in ballot this year and I carried the envelop to the post office so it could get a hand stamp. Because I handled it I was required to sign it also.

[TexasProgresive]

While I want Al to win

This is the same method my union uses on mail in ballots and I agree with it. No signature on the outer envelope, no vote. Every election return we've had in my 31 year membership has ballots invalidated because of this.

[Omaha Steve]

8. That is an NLRB rule

Not US election law. The signature requirement may not stand in Appeals Court with current federal law.

[TexasProgresive]

23. How, then do you insure the registered voter

is the one who voted? When I vote at the polls I have to sign before voting- so what's the dif?

[Omaha Steve]

31. I had to sign to get my early ballot

Plus ever heard of forgery? I doubt they ever compare the signatures in the election office when they do 100,000 in a moths time.

[Omaha Steve]

3. I forgot to sign my mail in ballot for the primary

Early vote time frame in Ne. is about a month. But they had time to contact me to let me know. I had to be in the office before the polls closed the following Tuesday. I say count the vote.

[Eric J in MN]

14. Minnesota should do that. If they get an absentee ballot without...

...a signature, then contact the voter so he can come in and sign it.

Did they phone you or write you?

[Omaha Steve]

29. They phoned during the day

It was on the message machine when I got home.

[gristy]

5. No, it should not count.

No signature, no good.

[terip64]

7. I say it can't count. n/t

[Old Codger]

15. Not sure

But a friend of mine in Minn. said she had to sign her mothers absentee and her mother signed hers as witness on them .. Anyone here know anything about that?

[iamjoy]

16. I'd Say That's Up To Minnesota

I'd say that's up to Minnesota to decide. On the one hand, the instructions are clear - signing the ballot is a way of validating it. They have rules for a reason - to prevent fraud.

On the other hand, if the signature is just an extra step and there are other clear ways of validating the ballot - well, maybe they can be a little flexible. We really should go out of our way to count ballots rather than looking for reasons not to invalidate them. However, whatever decision is made must be consistent across all counties of the state.

[Leopolds Ghost]

26. To prevent what fraud?

Most of the fraud lately seems to have been committed by the tabulators.

[gollygee]

17. I'm torn

I want the votes to count, but if people didn't fill out their ballots according to the directions, they probably shouldn't.

[hlthe2b]

18. My CO write-in ballot required me to sign the ballot AND

the outside of the envelope---that is overkill and if MN did likewise, a single signature on the ballot should suffice. It took me longer to read, check, and recheck all the fine print of the instructions, than it did to complete the ballot. And, with all our ballot initiatives, that was a very long ballot.

Some of this is just getting ridiculous in the thinly veiled attempt to frustrate voters and disenfranchise them, if you ask me.

[meowomon]

19. We Have a Right to Vote !!

If the guy verifies it is his vote, then there you go. He is a person, not a signature! He is a living breathing human being and a registered voter in the United States. What if this guy had a vision problem and he was not told about the double signature? What if he just missed it because he was tired after working hard for his money all day? What if, no offense Mr. Jeranek, he is not that smart? But, he knows who he voted for..

If it isn't a deliberate fraud, his vote should count! It is his Constitutional right. Haven't we had enough butchery of the Constitution in the last 8 years?

[suston96]

21. When you vote in person you first stop at a desk and get checked in......

Your signature on that envelope is "checking in" to assure you are a registered voter on that list.

What's the problem with that?

[Eric J in MN]

24. Mailing the absentee ballot is also checking in. NT

NT

[elocs]

25. Whatever the rules may be, we must support them whether or not they favor Franken.

Where would we draw the line on forgetting? Just the signature on the envelope? What if I forgot to fill in the oval by Franken's name? Should I be able to go back and correct my lapse in memory?

Voting is a sacred and serious right and undertaking and it should not be treated lightly or casually by either the voter or the state, both of whom have an obligation to get it right. This is, after all, voting and not rocket science or taking an SAT exam.

[Eric J in MN]

27. Under Minnesota law, if someone forgot to fill in the oval near Franken's name...

...and put a checkmark next to his name instead, that counts as a vote for Franken.

[elocs]

28. What if someone "forgot" to put any mark anywhere?

Can they then come back and claim they forgot to vote for Franken (or Coleman) and could they please correct their forgetfulness? Somewhere there has to be a line. Discerning intent is one thing, forgetting is another.

[EFerrari]

30. In a fair world, his vote should count. Voting isn't supposed to be an obstacle course.

If he affirms he voted, what's the problem?

[DU GrovelBot]

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